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Its about winning.
Yep. Nothing to do with the electors making an informed decision - that's so "democratic".
Binners Merkel is posturing for her own election, once that's done we the serious negotiations can begin.
Democracy is about winning the election so you get to be in charge.
I well remember Labour grandees pointing out in the leadership campaign that you can't achieve anything in opposition, you have to win the elections. Corbyn voters didn't care.
But... but... they're ganging up on us already. its SOOOOOOOOO not fair!!! The slimy, devious European bastards!!!!! I told you they couldn't be trusted
I believe that was a direct quote from Theresa yesterday, wasn't it? I'm sure it'll tip the balance further in our favour once the negotiations start.
Someone more cynical than me might refer to that as 'getting your excuses in early'
I well remember Labour grandees pointing out in the leadership campaign that you can't achieve anything in opposition, you have to win the elections. Corbyn voters didn't care.
As long as they get to bunk off 6th form for the odd day to go and wave their placards, they're happy. Bless 'em!
"Yep. Nothing to do with the electors making an informed decision - that's so "democratic"."
Free press will only print what sells best which is dross.
Politicians in a democracy will aim to win votes which means following the whims of the voters.
What's the alternative? Benign dictatorships are thin on the ground.
Democracy is about winning the election so you get to be in charge.
Really? I thought it had to do with rule by the people, or something - not duping the people so you get to line your own pockets.
What's the alternative?
Oh, I dunno - telling the truth? Or is that too obvious?
Benign dictatorships are thin on the ground.
Looks like we'll be having a go at one!
If the election proceeds as predicted then England won't be far off a one party state.
Free press will only print what sells best which is dross.
its far worse than that. Pretty much our entire countries press is owned by foreign tax-avoiders who hold an unhealthy grip over those in power, or in the case of the Tory Right very much share their self-interested agenda. As this cartel have what is almost a monopoly, and independent news organisations like the BBC have effectively been neutered, what they're publishing at the moment is little short of propaganda.
If the election proceeds as predicted then England won't be far off a one party state.
i don't doubt for a second that the Maybots decision to call an election was done with the express intention of creating this. She's terrifyingly authoritarian, and anti-democratic. As are her friends in the press. If she gets the huge majority predicted, and the Labour party implodes, I dread to think what they'll set about doing. Brexit supplies them with a blank sheet of paper to effectively re-write the constitution.
Take a look at the people pulling the strings, the people funding them... who's interests do you think they'll be catering to exclusively as they tear up the post-war settlement?
this election is the most important in my lifetime, because I fear it will lead to the end of so much we've taken for granted for decades, and the re-shaping of our society into a corporate state, and a playground for rich tax-avoiders. To the total detriment of everyone else obviously.
The fact that the present Labour leadership, or the pathetic, spineless PLP seems to have singularly failed to grasp this, while they squabble with each other, is a gross dereliction of duty that will lead their descent into irrelevance at the exact point when they've never been needed more
She's terrifyingly authoritarian, and anti-democratic
Own Goal.
May held a Parliamentary vote on calling a General Election, you knkw that thing where the people vote for who should be in charge 8)
and anti-democratic
Yeah, calling a general election where voters can kick the government out, evil Tories.
Mummmmmmmyyyyyyyyy!!! 🙁
And if anybody was able to recognise an own goal, it would be you.
Me, I shoot, I score. I mean like everytime. It's uncanny 🙂
At the time she called it* we had fixed term parliaments and she did it as she expects to win
We can discuss this on purely partisan lines if you like but essentially she is authotarian, respectign democracy and being opportunistic
I am not sure any of these are bad skills in a politician though we may not admire them
* her announcement would support the authoritarian claim as much as it will democratic
I have just chaired a meeting of the Cabinet, where we agreed that the Government should call a general election, to be held on June 8."I want to explain the reasons for that decision, what will happen next and the choice facing the British people when you come to vote in this election
Like trump you must be tired of winning 😉Me, I shoot, I score. I mean like everytime. It's uncanny
So, after all the "unelected Prime Minister" waffle, now that she's called an election she's anti-democratic?
Ah...I see. She expects to win. So that's anti-democratic. Right.
Be a better opposition. Try and win.
"May held a Parliamentary vote on calling a General Election"
...and she's a remainer implementing Brexit when the the Referendum went against her. That's quite different democratic. Some would say a little too democratic given the narrowness of the vote.
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outofbreath - Member
What's the alternative? Benign dictatorships are thin on the ground.
Me.
I was born benign.
And apart from brown saddles and bar tape, I see no reason not to remain so.
Vote Spanner, for a brighter tomorrow.
🙂
Looks good for 67 - which benefit was stopped and why?
Photo of some of the letter here: http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/mother-told-she-was-too-healthy-for-sick-benefits-on-the-day-she-died-a6800921.html
"Me.
I was born benign.
And apart from brown saddles and bar tape, I see no reason not to remain so."
I was born benign, but put me in charge of a country and I'd have a hareem of slave women and exclusive access the the nations ale output withing about 6 weeks.
...and I'd gradually start to refer to my Civil Servants as 'henchmen'.
[b][i]its far worse than that. Pretty much our entire countries press is owned by foreign tax-avoiders who hold an unhealthy grip over those in power, or in the case of the Tory Right very much share their self-interested agenda. As this cartel have what is almost a monopoly, and independent news organisations like the BBC have effectively been neutered, what they're publishing at the moment is little short of propaganda.[/i]
[i]
The fact that the present Labour leadership, or the pathetic, spineless PLP seems to have singularly failed to grasp this, while they squabble with each other, is a gross dereliction of duty that will lead their descent into irrelevance at the exact point when they've never been needed more [/i][/b]
Interesting you write the above Binners. You've spent the past year choosing to attack Corbyn instead of opposing the Tories. As I see it, you are one of the people the Tories love since you have helped them attack the opposition.
When the Tories are re-elected you have been a part of helping them make that happen.
FWIW - I do not overly support Corbyn but I would never, ever, choose to attack him over the Tories. I'd rather Corbyn in power than the Tories.
I have to say, I know of at least 4,873,749 people who were going to vote Labour until they read some of the things Binners posted. Completely changed their mind.
@captainflasheart..Cheers. You confirm my point exactly (but not in the way, I'm going to guess, that you think I mean). 😀
Yeah c'mon Binners, haven't you read the script.
My position is simple.
I've voted Labour for 32yrs, I could never bring myself to vote for a Tory govt - especially one this insane.
However, Corbyn & Labour support the utter insanity of Brexit.
No matter what other policies Labour propose, they all pale before the single greatest political disaster of our times.
Which is why I cannot vote for my current MP as she voted for article 50, so that leaves me with the only political party that opposes the madness.
Labour deserve their coming oblivion.
I feel the same, but I'm in a swing seat and our current MP (Alison McGowen) had the guts to vote against triggering A50 so she'll get my vote
Muddy - vote tactically for the party most likely to beat a tory
Unfortunately my area, Sussex, is 97% likely to vote in the Tories, again, so we're stuffed. I'm almost certain to vote Lib Dem, though.
It's going to be an interesting election night.
Hold my nose & vote for a Brexiteer?
Tories stand next to no chance here, yet a LibDem candidate may just take the seat.
I'll vote with my principles.
Labour deserve their coming oblivion
You mean you'll be voting to send a message to those at the top regardless of the undesirable consequences?
Sounds familiar.
The thousands of younger new members, the people we were begging to get involved in politics for years don't deserve that Si.
Brexit wasn't their fault.
And neither do those who are going to suffer most from an increased Tory majority.
Don't take your understandable anger out on those who don't deserve it.
I had a bit of a 'bollocks to it all' phase, disgusted by my party and those who fell for the lies.
But what are you going to do, give up or fight?
Look at Rochdale.
How many vulnerable people do you see on the streets?
The only places that are full are the medical centres and the charity shops.
As a historian, your spider senses must be tingling at the mo?
We're descending into a shitstorm of victim blaming and division.
We're ****ed and its down to Obi Wan Corbyn to save us from Darth May.
Pete, you don't need to be a historian to see what may be coming down the tracks!
My MP is Heywood & Middleton, despite living a mile from the Town Hall, Danczuk is a terrible MP & Rochdale a trad Liberal seat anyway.
I simply cannot vote for a Party that will not stand up against the crazy farce that is Brexit, it is THE single defining issue of our age. Let it go through & it doesn't matter WHAT Labour promise, as we won't be able to afford any of it.
When the Tories decided to become the electable face of UKIP Labour had a chance to become the voice of the 48%, most of the PLP are anti Brexit anyway yet the leadership pushed a 3-line whip & the PLP supinely rolled over.
Those aren't the people I want representing me.
Corbyn is a Brexit supporter, ergo he is not a man i want in Downing St.
Yeah, i wouldnt vote for Dirty Danczuk either, to be fair, at least here David Crausby is kind of reasonable
No matter what other policies Labour propose, they all pale before the single greatest political disaster of our times.
That was allowing ourselves to be dragged into what is now the EU by Heath, so you can still blame the Tories.
And in Today's mainstream press, more reports of corporate manslaughter via WCA and disability benefits sanctions.
How much longer can Freud, Duncan Smith, McVey, Patel, Crabb and Green avoid prosecution.
http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/disabled-dad-died-after-being-10322668#ICID=sharebar_facebook
Great anecdotal link there about something that happened 4 years ago. My understanding of a complex issue is so much better informed now.
How much longer can Freud, Duncan Smith, McVey, Patel, Crabb and Green avoid prosecution.
The answer is they never will be. I can't see how death of a person refused a particular type of benefit can ever be criminaly linked to the minister in charge the department. Whatever anyone thinks of the rights or wrongs its just not going to happen, so why keep going on about it.
My point is, from the 2012 welfare reform act that has been the direct and sometimes indirect causes of up to 8000 similar deaths, up until very recently to find reports of these deaths, you had to be a member of Black Triangle, DPAC or follow independent blogs.
Now the red tops deem it fit for reporting.
As for why have I posted this report in this thread, this is the reason for me turning my back on my party membership in this general election and ill be voting for an MP that could possibly put Jeremy Corbyn in to number 10 despite my misgivings about some more right wing elements of the Labour Party.
Taxi, IDS was confronted many many times by disability rights pressure groups about the unintended consequences of his policies. On one particular occasion I remember him turning up for a parliamentary consultation meeting with a group of disabled activists under armed Police guard.
Priti Patel once referred to a group of wheelchair users protesting outside a Job centre as "Terrorists"
Ministers know full well and choose to ignore the consequences of thier edicts to branch management at DWP departments.
Does this not make them culpable?