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“I am ready to adapt our offer should the UK red lines change,” Barnier said in a speech to the Institute of International and European Affairs in Brussels. “Our objective has always been to find an agreement with the UK, not against.”
TJ, you really need to bring yourself up to date. Using ancient quotes when referring to the current situation is odd.
No mention of any commitment to remain
That letter from Corbyn… all good in my opinion. Enough for me to vote for Labour in my seat at that election. I don’t need Labour to back a Remain option, just offer it to the public in a vote.
Still think this ends with us leaving with No Deal in May, with a freshly elected Conservative Brexit government. That further extension will just bolster support for them, sadly.
Apart from that is still thr situation. Want to stay in the CU and / Or the single market we can. Its been one of the EUs consistent positions all along. Change the red lines get a different deal
I know the truth does not appeal to you Corbyn haters but its good to put a few bits and pieces in there
What about all those labour idiots like Kinnoch Junior - an arch blairite - who now swant to vote for Mays deal? What about those 18 labour mps who voted against taking control of proceedings to stop no deal against the labour whip
No - irrelevant surely as its all Corbyns fault
Apart from that is still thr situation. Want to stay in the CU and / Or the single market we can.
You think the SM & CU options are still on the table… either in UK politics or on the EU side? I hope you’re right, but nothing much points to that being the case.
What about all those labour idiots like Kinnoch Junior – an arch blairite – who now swant to vote for Mays deal?
Kinnock has been pushing for leaving the EU consistently since the referendum.
This feels like the wrong thread.
Ooh look Corbyn is not in his magic garden or making magic mushrooms or playing draughts, darts or dominos ...
Jeremy Corbyn urges opposition leaders and Tory rebels to help oust PM
www.theguardian.com/politics/2019/aug/14/jeremy-corbyn-urges-opposition-leaders-and-tory-rebels-to-help-oust-pm
Guardian need to be careful they are starting to look a bit anti-centrist magic dad.
This feels like the wrong thread.
Well its consisted of endless pages of whining about him and brexit so why cut it short now?
Now to see how many moderates and centrists are more interested, like Binners, in their hate of Corbyn than trying to stop brexit.
I meant the discussion about Kinnock and others looking to find a way of getting a deal pushed through. Oh, are they “moderates and centrists”, or “Labour right wingers”, or are those tags just for people calling for the public to have a final say?
Anyway, unlike Binners, I welcome the Corbyn letter.
Oh, are they “moderates and centrists”, or “Labour right wingers” or are those tags just for people calling for the public to have a final say?
Well I am sure most of those who believe themselves to be centrists have disowned them but yes they fall in that camp. Also I would have thought its worth noting them here since its a nice clear sign that Labour has equally strong divisions which makes it hard to go all out remain.
Corbyn's letter will force the issue now. Opposition parties will need to support or come up with an alternative. If Swinson says they will support but not if Corbyn leads would look churlish, would she risk no deal for the sake of 2 weeks of Corbyn PM with defined objectives
Labour leavers like Kinnock and Nandy will prob fall in line with Labour Whip as a 2nd ref better than no deal. And I imagine not falling in line would be a career limiting move
The odd Kate Hoey aside I think the opposition parties will wear the offer, maybe holding their noses - it will be down to how many Tory rebels will support it and effectively resigning as MPs as they will booted out by the Tory party before the next GE
Neither Corbyn’s suitability to stay on as Leader, or the issue of allowing the public a final say on Brexit, are purely about “centrists” vs those on the left. Far from it. Hope that simplicity will be dropped now.
Clive Lewis is an example of an MP definitely on the left who has kept a clear and critical voice on Brexit. You can criticise the leadership without having to be a right winger seeking to undo what Corbyn has done in terms of moving policy to the left on other issues.
Hope that simplicity will be dropped now.
Whereas I hope your patronising tone will disappear. I suspect we will both be disappointed.
You can criticise the leadership without having to be a right winge
I have never said otherwise so I am not sure why you feel you are enlightening me.
I specifically stated that it was a question of how many centrists eg not all would have their hatred of Corbyn overrule everything else.
When every criticism of Brexit or Corbyn no longer results in angry cries of “centrist”, or “moderate” or whatever yellow Tory uncaring elite label is de rigour at the time, my tone will probably get softer. Dropping those kind of “down with outsiders” type attacks will also be a vote winner, I would guess.
No mention of any commitment to remain
You just said above you'd accept May’s dealto avoid a no deal. Yet now Corbyn is proposing a way to avoid no deal it’s no good?
Watching newsnight and the Lib-Dems are flatly refusing to work with Labour. Political posturing of the highest order. Do they want to avoid a no deal or not?
Watching newsnight and the Lib-Dems are flatly refusing to work with Labour.
Of course they are. Corbyn is pushing for a GE, one in which many of the Lib Dems recently-acquired MPs would likely lose their seats.
The likes of Chukka Unumma are terrified of the prospect of being held accountable to their constituents and more worryingly (to them) losing their spot in the limelight.
Sadly Swinson's 'Tory-lite' party will, if they continue to refuse to work with Labour, both help usher in a No Deal Brexit whilst at the same time pretending they were doing all they could to prevent it, no doubt gaining the support of many political illiterates such as 'binners' in a post-Brexit Britain.
LibDems need to take Tory seats in that election… and their chances of doing so will be reduced if they are seen to jump at the chance to make Corbyn PM. Much negotiation will be required… (and is happening). Watch Tom Watson carefully now…
For what it’s worth, I suspect Wollaston will win her seat… and I wouldn’t completely rule out Umunna either… I have family in his seat, and they and others voted for him despite him being Labour, not because he was… he looked quite apart from the Labour Party at the last election already… his support might also hold up (but I doubt it).
LibDems need to take Tory seats in that election... and their chances of doing so will be reduced if they are seen to jump at the chance to make Corbyn PM.
Rather than thinking about their own petty party aspirations should they not primarily be concerned with their stated main goal, avoiding a No Deal Brexit?
As it is though, given the support for Brexit within the Conservative held constituencies how likely do you really think it would be that the Lib Dems could take voters from them?
The Lib Dems are a spent force in UK politics. They've only managed to remain in the news by snapping up turncoat MPs and by fooling some in the press and public at large into thinking they're the only anti-Brexit party. Perhaps its time for them to make amends for their Tory-enabling treachery and support Corbyn in preventing a No Deal Brexit? Yes, along the way they will lose some of their MPs in a GE, but according to Lib Dem supporters on here Brexit is the only game in town at the moment, so shouldn't that be the priority?
As it is though, given the support for Brexit within the Conservative held constituencies how likely do you really think it would be that the Lib Dems could take voters from them?
Check all the election results this year, and compare to Tory seats where the LibDems tend to come second at general elections. Come back when you have. You might even be pleased if you take a look at Jacob Rees-Mogg‘s seat. If you think the upcoming election will suddenly become binary Conservative/Labour nationwide, you might be surprised. Especially if the Greens, LibDems & PC stand aside for each other in key seats.
fooling some in the press and public at large into thinking they’re the only anti-Brexit party
This made me chuckle, being in this thread.
Kinnoch is clearly on the right of Labour. He always has been.
You have committed Brexiteers like HOey on the right and Stringer on the left. You have right wing labour like Kinnoch scared of their own shadow who want brexit because they are scared of racists in their constituencies
There is around 70 labour MPs who believe in Brexit for a variety of reasons.
But its all corbyns fault - that weird man Corbyn who according to some on here simultaneously is completely incompetent and also a Machiavellian genius who has total control over the party
Dropping those kind of “down with outsiders” type attacks will also be a vote winner, I would guess.
Yeah? maybe that policy should be adopted by some others then? Just a thought.
If you think the upcoming election will suddenly become binary Conservative/Labour nationwide, you might be surprised. Especially if the Greens, LibDems & PC stand aside for each other in key seats.
I'll bet Lib dems end up with under 20 seats, Swinson will lose hers and they are the 4th or even 5th largest party.
More Labour buffoonery with regards to Obi-wans comments on Indy2, exactly the same as the Tories, haven't a clue what they're Northern branch want.
It would be funny if it wasn't so sad, I can never see any way back for Labour in Scotland, and I never thought I'd ever hear that said a few years ago.
I agree with you on that Eatthepudding. Unfortunately their antics in Holyrood and the actions of Murphy during the independence referendum led them to this.
If labour in England are out of step with their voters in Scotland they are on a differnt planet to their ( now lost) supporters
I used to vote labour but no longer due to those two issues
Listening to Rebecca Long Bailey questioned on Today, one word kept being repeated regarding what happens in the long term...
“If..”
Seems like everything, as usual, comes with caveats to the caveats
I agree with you on that Eatthepudding
I'll give you 5 minutes to retract that slur, otherwise I'll call you a bounder and a cad!.
It’s an interesting move - potentially..
A man whose life long political stance has been anti-EU is now “offering” a chance to remain?
It does rather open things up.....(maybe he’s worn a smooth spot on that fence so he’s no longer getting splinters in his @rse)
Is he genuinely putting country before party? Or rather his own principles....?
Or is it just more political double speak?...
Time will tell!
Should have been Eatthebreid.
Why the hell are they still trotting out some minor shadow minister to field major national interviews about this?
Corbyn is trying to put himself forward as the candidate to lead a broad coalition of MPs to form a government at a moment of national crisis, stop no deal and immediately fight an election.
If he is serious, then he needs to take every opportunity to get in front of the cameras and make his arguments, forcefully.
Boris and co are busy electioneering all summer. They know what's coming. Does Labour really have to wait for an election to be called to even finalise a manifesto? Surely that places them at an immediate and massive disadvanatage, when their policies need to be crystal clear now, not four weeks before the poll?
Sorry no beer. I am a bit dim this morning - more dim than usual. I abase myself. *touches forelock*
Its the same position the labour party has had for a long time now.
then he needs to take every opportunity to get in front of the cameras and make his arguments, forcefully.
*whispers*
He's not very good at it, especially when pushed a little in an interview. Could be because he's not terriblynbright, could be because he's and angry placard waver at heart. Who knows.
I suppose you’re right… many of us want a Labour leader front and centre… but if he is kept in the background because he simply is not up to the job, or at least appears that way if having to ask the questions that journalists should be asking him… perhaps they are right to keep him in hiding and avoiding scrutiny. Replacing him seems a more obvious approach to me though.
Replacing him seems a more obvious approach to me though.
This.
JC is unpalatable to too many - hence why the LDs don’t want to deal with him. If a more central leader emerged then I imagine that’d change..
I suppose you’re right… many of us want a Labour leader front and centre…
The tory voters?
JC is unpalatable to too many – hence why the LDs don’t want to deal with him.
The Lib Dems don't want to 'deal' with him because they're more interested in playing party politics than do what is right for the country.
They're no doubt hoping that, as with their spell in enabling the Tories, they'll be able to try and blame someone else when their refusal to compromise leads to a No Deal Brexit and walk away scot-free. Hopefully though, as with their coalition with the Tories, the electorate will remember their pivotal role in the proceedings and punish them for it.
Corbyn gets accused of sitting on his hands and is hounded for it. Swinson actually sits on her hands and folks are giving her an easy time.
There is no time for any more posturing/plotting/replacing/emerging. This is it - there is only one route to prevent falling off the cliff, and even that is no longer in our hands, given that the EU27 may well have had enough.
All the stars need to align. JC is and will be the Labour leader. There will be no challenge. There will be no leadership bid. They way things are going there will be no Party Conference. As leader of HM Opposition, only he can try to form the alternative government in September/October.
The LDs, SNP, a handful of Tories, and the vast majority of Labour MPs will have to back it. I am fearful that enough will be sufficiently aghast at the prospect of him being PM, even the shortest-lived PM in history, to torpedo the whole enterprise.
Isn't it time to rename this thread 'Rupert Murdoch'
most of the 'debate' on here seems to be recycled snippets of all the guff he puts out for the weak minded...
As leader of HM Opposition, only he can try to form the alternative government in September/October.
This. It's a simple question for the libdems and tory moderates. Do they want to stop a no deal or not? If yes this is probably* the only feasible option. There is no time to mess about playing party politics. Labour have done the right thing in saying any new government will be temporary and are promising to call an election once no deal is avoided. They would be under no obligation otherwise so they have offered a compromise. This isn't an attempt to seize power, it's an attempt to stop no deal followed by the the proper democratic solution which is a general election.
*there are others but they are even less likely.
Isn’t it time to rename this thread ‘Rupert Murdoch’
most of the ‘debate’ on here seems to be recycled snippets of all the guff he puts out for the weak minded…
Is that you, Seamas?
Thanks for the reminder, comrade, that all those who don't revere St Jeremy as their saviour are clearly unthinking drones, capitalist stooges and slaves to the military-industrial complex, totally incapable of independent thought, who need their opinions spoon-fed to them by the right wing press
We clearly need saving from ourselves
Come the glorious revolution....
Come the glorious revolution….
Any views on Corbyn's actions to prevent a no deal? Not impressed with a letter I presume? Perhaps a protest would be a better idea?
Maybe an online petition? 😉
As leader of HM Opposition, only he can try to form the alternative government in September/October.
Does he have to be leader of the Opposition for that purpose? I doubt it. I'm sure a neutral could be leader of the Opposition for the purposes under discussion. Ken Clark, Chukka or Vince Cable. Corbyn could remain leader of the Labour party.
When all the dust had settled a GE would be called and Corbyn would campaign as normal.
It's pretty clear that Corbyn is the sole impediment to an organized multi party takeover by the opposition. [1] If he (temporarily) stepped out of the way all objections would be overcome. [1]
Corbyn's a brexiteer and he's doing the best he can to ensure a 'proper' Brexit happens. Personally I think that's commendable - he's doing what he (perhaps misguidedly) thinks is right.
[1] Assuming they have the numbers which isn't clear.
Corbyn could have saved the ink and just not written the letter - no one ( outside the bunker ) is going to agree to a Marxist government run by him, that has suggested that retrospective laws should be created to imprison political opponents.
"I would expect there are people in his own party and indeed the necessary Conservative backbenchers who would be unwilling to support him. It is a nonsense,"
Jo Swinson
https://www.politico.eu/article/help-jeremy-corbyn-no-deal-brexit/
I am not exactly a Corbyn or Labour fan but the constant demonisation that he is the subject of betrays the lack of respect for the principles of plurality of opinions.
Tolerance is a two-way street and we should absolutely tolerate the tolerant who's views and experiences differ from our own.
But there is a limit to being tolerant, and when it comes to people who, if not racists themselves, have made one of the major parties in this country a safe-space for racial hatred, have called for the jailing of people who disagree with their extremist views, then the limits of tolerance have been passed.
& to put up with Cranberry you need trollerance.
You mean Johnson?
'cos Corbyn is no racist no matter how much people try to label him as such.
His enemies have tried a numerous attacks lines on him. Terrorist friend, racist, anti semite, communist - none of which is true.
You do realise ALL socialism comes from Marxs teachings? Even Blair!
...when it comes to people who, if not racists themselves, have made one of the major parties in this country a safe-space for racial hatred...
That'll be Johnson and the Conservative Party, but this thread is about Corbyn.
If you can point out 'racial hatred' in relation to Corbyn it might help your arguement.
Whilst I can understand people not agreeing with Corbyn’s policies and thinking he is a poor leader; I don’t understand why so many people claim he is untrustworthy. Why is that?
His enemies have tried a numerous attacks lines on him. Terrorist friend, racist, anti semite, communist – none of which is true.
It takes some mental gymnastics to come to that conclusion. You’ll be voting to remain in the eu and leave the uk next.
It did indeed take a load of mental gymnastics for people to claim those things as there is not a shred of credible evidence behind them.
I don’t understand why so many people claim he is untrustworthy. Why is that?
Because those who parrot such rubbish are either;
A) Tories.
B) Politically naive/illiterate simpletons who believe whatever the MSM tells them.
C) 'Moderates' who will say/believe anything in their quest to drag the Labour Party back to the right.
D) Many other reasons that you have no interest in listening to or taking seriously
D) Many other reasons that you have no interest in listening to or taking seriously
It's difficult to take such accusations seriously when even the most cursory of research into them shows they are complete rubbish
As a comparison, should we take the opinions of flat earthers seriously despite the available evidence?
How about his responses to the attempted murder of Sergei Skripal? They sure made me worry about how he would act as PM as regards Russia.
flat earthers
Right.
As a comparison, should we take the opinions of flat earthers seriously despite the available evidence?
Or people who think homeopathy is a good idea?
Kelvin - he simply asked for evidence before accusation - and that was before we even knew what the poison was
Nevermind Jeremy, did you see his brother Piers on Russia Today talking about climate change and temperature?
Or people who think homeopathy is a good idea?
As a Critical Care nurse I look upon homeopathy with the contempt it deserves.
If an individual has a belief in homeopathy though it doesn't mean that everything they believe in is equally contemptible.
, did you see his brother Piers on Russia Today
Was his mother at Cable Street as well?
But its all corbyns fault – that weird man Corbyn who according to some on here simultaneously is completely incompetent and also a Machiavellian genius who has total control over the party
No, that's not fair. If he actually controlled his party we wouldn't be where we are now.
And your point is?
Just because he believes in homeopathy doesn't mean all his opinions are equally worthless (see my last post).
From the comments you post on political threads it appears you are a Tory, and a pretty inwards looking one at that, but I wouldn't discount your opinions on everything based on your political leanings.
Don't underestimate the power of the sugar pill
“They both come from organic matter”
Oh well that makes homeopathy completely legit then.
That is Trumpian stupidity.
If an individual has a belief in homeopathy though it doesn’t mean that everything they believe in is equally contemptible.
If an individual holds beliefs such as the above quote from Comrade Corbynichov, it calls into question their entire belief system and ability to make rational decisions.
Interstingly ( and I am not defnding it at all) but for some chronic conditions it was found that refferring people to homeopathy saved the NHS money - as they stopped taking up so much NHS time.
Pure placebo effect of course.
Rayban - good. That means we can happily ignore everything you say as yo have been proved wrong numerous times. Like over Lyme!
Hahah.
You didn’t manage to pin that on me.
I’ve only ever been against throwing antibiotics around like sweets based on flimsy or little data. It’s scientists who spend decades toiling away underneath fluorescent lighting and white walls to make these drugs work only to have clinicians and farmers piss the good work up the wall.
“They both come from organic matter”
Oh well that makes homeopathy completely legit then.
That is Trumpian stupidity.
To be fair to JC when you're an obscure back bencher with no chance of holding even the lowest government job saying thoughtless dumb things on social media to placate a constituent or two isn't that bad. It's akin to one of us sitting next to someone on a train and smiling and nodding to whatever mindless offensive bollocks they spout.
If we're looking for sticks to beat JC with he's provided dozens of *far* better ones.
Anyone know what rural bus fares are like in Ghana?
Anyone know what rural bus fares are like in Ghana?
Dunno.
I'm only here for the Current Popular Search Terms
I’m only here for the Current Popular Search Terms
PP: Google, How will a general election make things better?
Google: https://singletrackworld.com/forum/topic/jeremy-corbyn/
A fine speech from him today
Sure TJ.
From the Guardian today.
Q: John McDonnell said this morning he would campaign for remain in a second referendum. Would you? And if not, can you see why remainers have doubts about your leadership?
Corbyn says McDonnell was giving his personal view.
He says the real issue is what must be done to end inequality in Britain
Still situation normal for Corbyn.
A fine speech from him today
Strong on “National Education Service“ and bringing back slashed youth services… but some other bits, especially when answering questions, were a bit, well, empty.
This is the policy the voters of places like Sunderland, Manchester and St Albans have been waiting for.
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2019/aug/19/labour-commits-to-total-ban-on-keeping-monkeys-as-pets
This is the policy the voters of places like
SunderlandHartlepool, Manchester and St Albans have been waiting for.
FTFY