Forum menu
You missed Labour staff taking a vote on strike action over their pay.
Half a dozen serious commentators saying there's a rift between JC/Abbot/McDonnell and as far as I can tell nobody saying there isn't.
I don't get it. Is it remotely credible that the three people at the heart of the whole thing can't keep their ducks in a row for a year or so in the interests of (what they perceive to be) the greater good?
Ahh yes, the strike over pay - it makes you wonder why Labour has decided to impose austerity on their own hard working, down-trodden staff.
I gather Labour are set to make a big policy announcement on Wednesday.
I might just watch the telly instead. Anything interesting on?
I was channel hopping in a hotel on Sunday and saw a little of John Mcdonnell saying that Jeremy must come out this week and say Labour are for Remain, and/or they want a new referendum, which, he thought, Remain would win.
I dont think that is official Labour policy, so he is causing some upset in the Party.
I might just watch the telly instead. Anything interesting on?
One assumes you’ll have masturbated yourself into such a frenzy during Tuesday night's debate between the two candidates for leadership of the party you love so much, you’ll probably sleep for most of Wednesday. If that meant giving us a day off from your lame posts in political threads, don’t worry about it.
So there are rumours that there will be a big policy annoucement tomorrow from Labour as a spoiler for the expose on Panorama tomorrow evening, will it be...
1. Fatcher was wrong about the Falklands?
2. A change of Brexit policy from "not what the tories are doing" to "not tories what doing the are"?
3. Tragic Grandpa stands up, makes a clenched fist salute and sings Throw The Jew Down The Well So That Labour May Be Free!?
I’d say given your past inability to read and understand even a BBC report written in fairly plain english (although perhaps not “plain” for you), you’ll probably struggle to understand it anyway.
Aww, bless!
3. Tragic Grandpa stands up, makes a clenched fist salute and sings Throw The Jew Down The Well So That Labour May Be Free!?
Anyone who's a bit more serious about alternatives to the current regime might enjoy reading this:
https://www.ippr.org/research/publications/incentivising-an-ethical-economics
I was pro him - I was wrong. He needs to go. Not back to Blairism but someone who isn't tainted by all this stuff.
You weren't wrong then but you are right now. Someone else would have more chance of winning.
Can't work out why Boris isnt being hounded out for his even more blatant racism.
"Thomas Gardiner, a senior Corbyn ally, had personal sign-off on “all” anti-semitism decisions and repeatedly refused to suspend a man who said two Jewish Labour MPs were “Zionist cum buckets”"
...
"He was revealed earlier this year to have blocked the suspension of a woman who had posted an image of the Statue of Liberty being smothered by an alien with the Star of David on its back.
Dexter says Gardiner had the final say on “all” anti-semitism complaints and seemed to take advice from Corbyn’s team before making decisions. “It was obvious and certainly accepted by me and a couple of other staff members that Thomas was probably getting direction from LOTO [leader of the opposition’s office] on lots of decisions,” leading to dysfunction and months-long delays.
Dexter said the complaints team was explicitly banned from executing its traditional role of recommending whether to suspend those accused of anti-semitism. “They had one person who’s making the decisions unilaterally without any apparent understanding or necessary training for that,” he said. “It certainly felt like a massive misjudgement and an error.”"
He said, I read, it is rumoured that, I heard that, jeez its like reading CCO troll intern posts.
Comres latest. have got Labour on 28pts. (Surv similar)
Tories 24 pts.
Yougov really does get all the headlines.
Remind us again, comrade, what would deliver a majority
28% in one poll against the worst government in history. Way to go Jezza!
Prepare for government
28% in one poll against the worst government in history
out oO the main polls YouGov is the outlier and yet people were treating it as gospel without you calling them out. I am sure, of course, that you know this since you sneer at all those six form type I can only assume you are better informed. It is curious how despite in theory them using similar methodology there is this much variation. Raises the questions how much use the polls are, in any direction, currently.
As for worse government in history. What is your methodology for this. I am assuming that you have taken into account the complexities of a cross party issue and arent just coming out with tedious soundbites?
As for that piece. Interesting in some ways although it seems mostly to hark back to the glory days of thatcherism without addressing how it contributed to the issues. Housing being the obvious starter for ten and the deification of the "private sector" which Blair took and ran with.
What is it with you and your love of old school tory columnists anyway?
As for worse government in history. What is your methodology for this.
Which government was worse than this one, in recent history? It has been dead from the head down since 2017. Stagnating and holding the country back. It is waiting to be kicked in the guts, only to be have its tummy rubbed by the official opposition. Every week at PMQs you have to wait for the SNP question for things to start in earnest. And when did the leader of the opposition last take on a prime time TV or radio interview to explain and convince us that there was a new government in waiting, ready to put this one out of its misery, and getting us all lined up to vote for it?
Remind us again, comrade, what would deliver a majority
28% in one poll against the worst government in history. Way to go Jezza!
Prepare for government
As much as I usually agree with you, that article singled out the 1997 abolition of the primary purpose law - which was a draconian measure aimed at people married to British nationals.
Quite frankly the writer can **** off.
The biggest driver of rabid migration fears has been the overinflation of net migration figures by including students and letting in people who have an affinity for exploding on trains.
The fact that the writer singled that out is a symptom of how blind nativism has infected even moderate thinking now.
EDIT:
George Walden is an author and a former diplomat and Conservative MP
That explains it, a pro-Eu gammon.
Which government was worse than this one, in recent history?
That wasnt Binners rather extreme claim. So why dont we stick with what was actually said rather than you redefining it? Once that has been dealt with can come back to your new claim.
And when did the leader of the opposition last take on a prime time TV or radio interview
He was at the Durham Miners Gala. That's a far better platform than something as trivial as the biased MSM who are all out to smear him.
Besides, even if there was a documentary about the Labour party on the BBC, if you think it's dishonest or innacurate, far better to scream lies and demand it's taken down from the iPlayer than take any legal action.
As for worse government in history. What is your methodology for this.
Worst government in History is probably over playing it a bit, but certainly worst government in living memory. I think we can forgive Binners a bit of minor hyperbole.
Monday night is allotment night. Nothing can change that.
https://twitter.com/PaulBrandITV/status/1150717253995913216?s=19
I think we can forgive Binners a bit of minor hyperbole.
Does that count for just that post or every single post he has ever made?
Worst government in History is probably over playing it a bit, but certainly worst government in living memory
It was a specific claim being made by Binners and then handily redefined by kelvin.
Even with the downgrade to "living memory". I am not overly convinced even by this claim.
Yes they have utterly failed but do you really think given the same hand most, if any, of the previous governments would have done any better? I guess, in theory, someone could have tried for a cross party approach early on and that may have worked but given how badly both the main parties are fractured on this issue I am not convinced.
Its the last few governments utter failure to deal with issues that set it all in motion. This government primary fault was to decide it was worth a go rather than sitting it out.
Seeing that Thatchers government is in living memory for me then that is easily the worst government in my living memory. The impact of all the shit she did is still with us today.
Even with the downgrade to “living memory”. I am not overly convinced even by this claim.
😀
Yes they have utterly failed but do you really think given the same hand most, if any, of the previous governments would have done any better?
True this was an impossible situation. ...but even if you factor the current circumstances out [1] can you think of another government in living memory where Chris Grayling and Gavin Williamson would have got senior cabinet jobs?
[1] Which I don't think is necessary to the original claim, we judge governments without making allowances for the situation they find themselves in. There's no other way - otherwise we'd be saying Churchill was a crap PM because in a peaceful prosperous era he'd have been a bit crap.
The Party’s response has been to smear Jewish victims, and former staff, accusing them of acting in bad faith… The way the party has threatened and denigrated these whistleblowers is appalling, hypocritical and a total betrayal of Labour’s core values…
“This shameful communications strategy is the creation of your office, which… has cynically used the party, and its outriders, to amplify a smear campaign against critics. But this crisis is ultimately your responsibility.”
200 current and former staff members of the Labour Party.
The impact of all the shit she did is still with us today.
She did have 11 years though… the damage this one has done to our country, and the people in it, in a few short years, is pretty impressive. But, the point is… this government should be eminently beatable, and we should have a Labour option, and a future Labour PM in waiting, that we're chomping at the bit to elect… in the last few years Corbyn really has not emerged as the person to make this happen.
in the last few years Corbyn really has not emerged as the person to make this happen.
Agree, he is useless. I agree with what he believes in but a leader he is not.
can you think of another government in living memory where Chris Grayling and Gavin Williamson would have got senior cabinet jobs?
Again much of it s the hand which has been dealt. Its the lack of talent to work with and a deeply divided party meaning lots of factions fighting it out. Which is when the PM finds out they dont really have that much real authority and power. Their ability to sack people is counterbalanced by the need to keep people in the government to have them under the whip.
Probably her main error was going for the election but then again remember how certain most people were that it would be a complete rout and she would also be thinking back to how Brown didnt go for the election early and paid the price. So an easy call in hindsight but if it had gone as was being claimed it would have put her into a position with lots more loyalists. As it was she ended up dependant on Loyalists and so was fatally weakened.
otherwise we’d be saying Churchill was a crap PM because in a peaceful prosperous era he’d have been a bit crap.
Churchill, of course, was kicked out in short order because he would have been crap.
What I am objecting to is the simplistic regurgitation of "worse government" without bothering to consider the factors. Its the sort of lazy thinking which led to brexit.
Thatchers government is in living memory for me then that is easily the worst government in my living memory
Enabled by Foot (a leader of towering skill compared to Corbyn, and of intellect compared to most politicians) and by the SDP split. But the Thatch mob were less incompetent than the current bunch in that they did a lot of what they set out to do, as damaging to the country as this was. The current lot are in a group-think bubble and flailing ineffectually as we drift downstream towards the sound of Niagara Falls.
Jesus Dissonance, if you think by "worst government" we just mean a poorly timed election, you have't been paying attention to the lives being buggered up by this government's domestic policies, and the diminution of prospects for just about all our industries thanks to its (lack of) international policies and their (lack of) implementation.
Hah, I half mis-read Niagara Falls as Nigel Farage... 😀
Jesus Dissonance, if you think by “worst government”
No I didnt say that never mind lets take your claims.
What are these specific domestic policies implemented by this government and not in the prior ones. Since the majority of the poor policies in this government are inherited.
As for the latter comments about international options. We are back to the crap hand they were dealt.
Whatever.
The trouble is for the centrist dad of them all (James O' Brien) - is Corbyn just will not die and he keeps coming back, time and time again.
They loved the 18pt yg poll to chunter on about. It's turned out to be an outlier - then they never reflect on the other polls either.
#wheresjeremy
Corbyn just will not die and he keeps coming back, time and time again.
If you mean as leader of the Labour Party, then you are spot on. He's a magican when it comes to maintaining his position and control of the party, against the odds. At this, he is a deeply impressive politician. But what about winning over voters beyond the machinations of the party… what has he done recently* towards that end?
*use your own definition of recently
The last time he won over voters was the election, nothing since then
But what about winning over voters beyond machinations of the party… what has he done recently* towards that end?
Did you not attend the Durham Miners Gala at the weekend then comrade?
Jeremy saw an opportunity to take his message to exactly the sort of swing voters in marginal seats that he'll need to convince if he's to win the next election, and won them over with a reasoned, clear and concise summary of labour policy.
He also shrewdly chose an event that receives extensive coverage in the mainstream media thus ensuring the message was spread far and wide.
Next stop; an evening meeting in a few weeks, at a Labour Club in Rotherham to discuss Palestine
Interesting to see some of the forces lined up against him:
https://www.aljazeera.com/investigations/thelobby/
Well… I managed six minutes… happy to accept that groups that are openly pro Israel, and have Israel in their name, have pro Israel “infiltrators” and are supported by Israel. Does the doc get any juicier?
ps… I haven’t stopped boycotting Israel made goods myself, have you? You can do all in your power to protest at the way Israel treats it’s neighbours and citizens, and still want our political parties to be free from antisemitism.
Advert in the Graun tomorrow...
All very odd...
Odd that she had worked at the Embassy, or odd that she mouthed off about someone expelled from the party for antisemitism?
Somebody best nip up to the allotment and let him know.
bigmountainscotland:
If a black person was complaining because some racist asshole was being racist, would you be there commenting on how oddly black they were ?
Depends on whether they're being actively black, I suppose?
If they are, then they deserve everything they get!
The context is this:
which shows the link between the Israeli embassy and the plot to bring Corbyn down. You may also spot another "innocent victim" from the Panorama programme. Of course Ella May might have just been making tea ...
You mean the Israeli embassy doesn't warmly welcome the idea of a jew-hateing regime in a major partner country, the 5th largest economy in the world? A regime that would be headed by friends of those who actively seek the destruction of Israel ?
Those jews have no sense of irony!
It's like black people getting all up and bothered about having the BNP, white robes in hand, one mis-step away from government - It oughtn't to be allowed!
Impressive imagination at work, cranberry.
And another PMQ's comes and go's with no mention of the 'B' Word. It was an interesting affair as it happened in reverse. The PM managed to spend it questioning Jezza about antisemitism in the Labour party. Another benchmark in restoring democracy passed for Magic Grandad. The leader of the opposition is the one who has to answer the questions now.
He did manage to get his usual shouty 10-second soundbite in, to keep all the sixth-form Corbyn-thwappers on social media happy. This week it was climate change. He looked very very cross indeed. For the whole ten seconds. It'll look great as a meme on Twitter. Should be up on there by now.
Right..... back to the allotment for another week then....
Blaah blaah allotment blaah blaah magic grandad blaah blaah monty python blaah blaah
Rumour has it that he's been too busy to address Brexit or antisemitism as he's been on location recording a socialist reboot of Last of the Summer Wine where the trio visit Venezuela then return to set up a workers Utopia in the Dales where they overthrow the evil capitalist parish council and proudly fly a Palestinian flag from the church spire
This week it was climate change
Ermm no it wassnt. It was primarily air pollution which given how many people it kills is rather an important issue.
Also bearing in mind that since its two PMQs since he raised Brexit extensively and the maybot failed to answer anything and, sadly, there has been no change since. Why shouldnt other issues be dealt with?
Do you really want no challenging of the PM on any subjects aside from Brexit bearing in mind we all know there isnt any change?
I'll pop onto Red Labour Twitter shortly to get the clip, comrade. Have a quick read of the fawning comments that accompany it, settle back into my socialist comfort zone and await the revolution
I'm taking it the other 90% of PMQ's where he was being accused of institutional racism by the Tory party (yes, we really are through the looking glass now) won't be included. Just the usual 10 second shouty bit to camera.
Hearts and minds, comrade. Hearts and minds
I’ll pop onto Red Labour Twitter shortly to get the clip, comrade
Thanks for reminding me that the brexiteers dont have a monopoly on idiots who are incapable of a reasoned discussion and just regurgitate whatever has been fed them.
You mean the Israeli embassy doesn’t warmly welcome the idea of a jew-hateing regime in a major partner country, the 5th largest economy in the world? A regime that would be headed by friends of those who actively seek the destruction of Israel ?
Or more like the Israeli embassy that doesn't warmly welcome the idea of a regime that is happy to point out the failings and human rights abuses of Israel and may change the way Israel is dealt with as a result of it. I can see why Israel might not like that to the point they may stir it up.
Thanks for reminding me that the brexiteers dont have a monopoly on idiots who are incapable of a reasoned discussion and just regurgitate whatever has been fed them.
Thats why we need a Corbyn government comrade. To prevent the brainwashing that leads to us all believing everything we're spoon-fed by the right wing press barons, and becoming unthinking capitalist stooges and the lackeys of the military-industrial complex, incapable of independent thought
That is, after all, the only possible explanation for us questioning the beardy messiah and the bright socialist future the glorious leader offers
Or more like the Israeli embassy that doesn’t warmly welcome the idea of a regime that is happy to point out the failings and human rights abuses of Israel and may change the way Israel is dealt with as a result of it. I can see why Israel might not like that to the point they may stir it up.
Which is what I expect of the Israeli embassy. What I don't expect (*) is that the BBC tumble into this trap, even though it's been well publicised, and take as unalloyed truth the words of individuals known to be part of this campaign.
(*) Not strictly true. Regrettably, it's precisely what I DO expect of the BBC.
Nobody is disputing that the present Israeli government is well beyond the pale, and their treatment of Palestinians is inexcusable
Any right-thinking person knows this, but could you just fill me in on how Tweeting death threats to Margaret Hodge and constantly harassing Luciana Berger helps undermine the regime of Benjamin Netanyahu and brings about a 2 state solution?
Thanks in advance....
It’s a sorry state of affairs when Binners is the one talking sense. What is going on??!?
So, what is this “plot”…? Is it a plot to uncover, expose, and seek to make political capital out of clear cases of antisemitism in the Labour Party, and the attempts to brush them under the carpet? Or is it a plot to make it all up? Please be clear on this if you are posting clips, and making vague implication of nefarious shenanigans. And as for the BBC making a programme about it… …how very dare they!
Any right-thinking person knows this, but could you just fill me in on how Tweeting death threats to Margaret Hodge and constantly harassing Luciana Berger helps undermine the regime of Benjamin Netanyahu and brings about a 2 state solution?
Err ... I've no idea - does anyone claim that it does? Or is this another Monty Python reference that I'm not getting?
You are Seamas Milne and I claim my little red book and signed, framed print of Len McClusky!
Here comes a mainstream right wing media tweet or two… feel free to ignore it all…
https://twitter.com/hzeffman/status/1151484680870301696?s=21
https://twitter.com/hzeffman/status/1151485064057937920?s=21
So, what is this “plot”…? Is it a plot to uncover, expose, and seek to make political capital out of clear cases of antisemitism in the Labour Party, and the attempts to brush them under the carpet? Or is it a plot to make it all up?
I'd also like to hear the specifics of the plot.
When accused of antisemitism claiming the blame actually lies with a country which has 75.4pc Jewish citizens is a bit counter productive. It's like the old joke about the Germans never forgiving the Jews for the Holocaust.
could you just fill me in on how Tweeting death threats to Margaret Hodge and constantly harassing Luciana Berger helps undermine the regime of Benjamin Netanyahu and brings about a 2 state solution?
Yes, it is hard to see how calling two female Labour MPs “Zionist cum buckets” is legitimate support for Palestinians.
(EDIT in answer to Kelvin)
Do not blame them!
Re Zionist cum buckets: Its not beyond the realms of possibility that people make up twitter accounts to say AS stuff and cause trouble for Labour is it?
Yeah... the whole thing is fake Twiitter accounts, definitely not traceable back to Chris Williamson
Mind that tinfoil helmet on the bunker roof, comrade, and whatever you do don’t go any any of the Corbynites social media feeds, or Margaret Hodges, or Luciana Berger, if you still want to carry on sticking your fingers and your ears, going ‘LA LA LAAAAA I’m not listening’ and trying to convince yourself labour (or one element of it) doesn’t have a serious issue with antisemitism
Anyone else invite a rampant homophobe to lunch today?
Anyone?
Anyone?
Re Zionist cum buckets: Its not beyond the realms of possibility that people make up twitter accounts to say AS stuff and cause trouble for Labour is it?
"Zionist cum buckets" wasn't false flag it's a quote from a Labour member.
In contrast, anonymous quotes could easily be false flag.
"The Labour Party has long supported and campaigned for LGBT+ inclusive education in schools,
The Labour party certainly has. In 2003 Labour abolished Section 28, which banned the “promotion” of homosexuality in schools.
Corbyn abstained from that in a whipped vote.
(In contrast George Osborne, John Bercow & Boris Johnson voted to abolish against their whip.)
Yeah… the whole thing is fake Twiitter accounts, definitely not traceable back to Chris Williamson
Mind that tinfoil helmet on the bunker roof, comrade, and whatever you do don’t go any any of the Corbynites social media feeds, or Margaret Hodges, or Luciana Berger, if you still want to carry on sticking your fingers and your ears, going ‘LA LA LAAAAA I’m not listening’ and trying to convince yourself labour (or one element of it) doesn’t have a serious issue with antisemitism
Was it Chris Williamson who said Zionist Cum Buckets? I genuinely didn't know, kick him out quick.
Re Zionist cum buckets: Its not beyond the realms of possibility that people make up twitter accounts to say AS stuff and cause trouble for Labour is it?
of course not. Some of these troublemakers even go as far as to become leader of the Labour party
etc etc and so on and so forth
Was it Chris Williamson who said Zionist Cum Buckets? I genuinely didn’t know, kick him out quick.
So you do think the guy who described two female Labour MPs as "Zionist Cum Buckets" should have been kicked out quick?
Yes of course and if they haven't already I'm sure they will be.