Jeremy Corbyn

Yep - I wish someone would just say let's have the Norway Model and get on with it. It's not difficult, it would get approval. you could still ask for minor tweaks, but this hard/soft stuff is counter-productive language.

Yep - I wish someone would just say let's have the Norway Model and get on with it. It's not difficult, it would get approval. you could still ask for minor tweaks, but this hard/soft stuff is counter-productive language.

Can't freedom of movement and all that entails. curtains for whom ever proposes it. You may as well call off brexit as go for the Norway option (in political terms the outcome would be the same).

Can't freedom of movement and all that entails. curtains for whom ever proposes it.

Why?

Given only 52% of those who voted, voted for Leave, I'm sure all of them didn't want or even understand the end of freedom of movement.

The knuckle dragging racists will be miffed but who cares about them

It's almost as if there were unrealistic expectations from the outset isn't it?

Of course - forgot that. I was thinking that as they don't have tariff-free access to the common market, that they must have opted out of one of the 4 pillars, but it appears not.

Why?

How the ukip vote split between labour and the tories decided so many seats in the GE (locally here it was 50/50 and the tories held on). The knuckle dragging racists have a say in so many marginals everyone is stepping round the issue and ignoring the elephant in the room

Klunk - Member

Can't freedom of movement and all that entails. curtains for whom ever proposes it.

Hard for a UK politician to propose it, maybe possible for one to reluctantly accept it as a price to pay.

He's even started nailing his one liners.

We look forward to this Parliament however short it may be

Hard for a UK politician to propose it, maybe possible for one to reluctantly accept it as a price to pay.

true but if you're prepared to accept it as a price worth paying, you may as well call off brexit.

this hard/soft stuff is counter-productive language.

Agree, it's nonsense.

I wish someone would just say let's have the Norway Model and get on with it.

As I understand it, all other things being equal, we should be able to get the Norway model for far less 'payment' [1] because we're a far better 'customer' of Europe than Norway.

Mind ewe, I'm sure all other things aren't equal.

[1] In whatever way payment is levied.

@Alex tbh I didn't make it all the way through. I would agree a Corbyn government would be a catastrophe for the UK public finances and thus public services such as the NHS unlike any we have ever seen before. The associated foreign policy disaster would pale into insignificance in comparison.

I doubt the Tories will focus mainly on "stop Corbyn at all costs" as if they regroup themselves Corbyn will not get a chance to force a general election

Norway model is total garbage. The Norwegian population voted against EEC/EU membership but the govt just signed up to most of it anyway.

Norway (and Switzerland) pay into the EU budget but they both have a trade surplus. We have a deficit, any budget payment is ridiculous in our case

Labour stood on a mandate to emd freedom of movement. Had tey not they would have win less seats than the 266 they did

Boarding freedom of movement was discussed at length during the Referendum. Everyone I know understood it and rhe consequences very well. We will have a visa system just the rest of the world thanks very much

Have you just accidentally hit a repost button on all you previous BS?

@kerly you have rapidly become one if the people who make STW political threads quite tedious

@kerly you have rapidly become one if the people who make STW political threads quite tedious

Says the man with 5 out of the 6 previous posts. 😀

jamba exhibiting the symptoms of losing control.

Go easy there fella - remainers are busy sorting out all the shit you caused.

It's true though, political threads were much more entertaining when Jamba was predicting a 100-150 seat majority. Or was it 75-100?

kerly you have rapidly become one if the people who make STW political threads quite tedious

Ha ha ha ha the ironing, utterly clueless.

May just got burnt

I've no idea why the election thread was closed, so now I don't know where to discuss that, but here's the age data.
[img] [/img]

@kerly you have rapidly become one if the people who make STW political threads quite tedious

Someone owes me a keyboard - that coffee's going to ruin it.

Did anyone hesr Clive Lewis ripping into Chris Leslie?

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/av/election-2017-40245512/clive-lewis-chris-leslie-s-a-sad-lonely-bitter-man

No, but I have noticed that a couple of ardent Blairites on my FB seem to have taken the election result worse than the Tories.

Probably creates more cognitive dissonance for them TBH.

@kerly you have rapidly become one if the people who make STW political threads quite tedious

I assume a few will be along to apologise for some of the attacks on Abbott
http://www.bbc.com/news/election-2017-40268505 over the last few weeks.

Inadvertantly read some FB comments on that earlier, ranged from "Obviously making it up", "DUH haven't you heard of insulin, stupid bitch" (from someone who thinks all these diabeetuses look the same), "if she's got an illness like that she shouldn't be an MP", and an avalanche of "if this is true, why would all this supposed stress and pressure suddenly come to a head just before an election, eh?"

It could still be a convenient excuse of course.

I see they are trying to work on May's image: appears at the football, does the wave, seen laughing and joking in the cabinet room etc. Bless.

"I know now why you cry"

Theresa May 2017

I've no idea why the election thread was closed, so now I don't know where to discuss that, but here's the age data.

The age seems to have shifted up a bit from memory. Previous data I have seen shows that the swing to tory happens at around 40 but this shows it was 50+.

I am 49 so quite worried I will become a selfish uncaring tory in the next 2 or 3 years. What can I do to stop it, ca I get prescribed empathy pills or something?

I am 49 so quite worried I will become a selfish uncaring tory in the next 2 or 3 years. What can I do to stop it, ca I get prescribed empathy pills or something?

Have you caught yourself admiring yachts?

I am 49 so quite worried I will become a selfish uncaring tory in the next 2 or 3 years. What can I do to stop it, ca I get prescribed empathy pills or something?

Dont worry, it doesnt happen to everyone, my old dear is 65 and voted Labour for the first time in her life (previously Lib dem)

Compare that vote age graphic with this one for newspaper readership, then ask yourself which came first, the chicken or the egg?

[img] [/img]

So with that voting demographic, are the Tories now going to majorly invest in the NHS to prop up their voter base?
😆

There we have it, the naive belief that 'the Tory voters are going to die out' rather than be replaced by More Tory voters as people age.

The fact that the same hypothesis was being touted in the seventies, but still hasn't happened, might give you a clue, but in case it didn't, here's some science on the issue:

http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0261379413000875

[i]Ageing increases the likelihood of a Conservative vote substantially, but there is no trend towards lower rates of Conservative voting among newer generations. There are however identifiable political generations corresponding with periods of Conservative dominance: voters who came of age in the 1930s, 1950s and 1980s are ceteris paribus somewhat more Conservative. [/i]

Whatever Corbyn's presentation coach is being paid, it's not enough.

The transformation from a querilous, shuffling, twitchy complainy old git to a self-assured, calm, fleshier and reasonable-sounding political heavyweight is remarkable.

Unless, of course, it's a substitution and the real Corbyn is currently languishing under house medication on a remote Pacific island.

Although, as his transformation progressed, I note that Maybot's equally alarming collapse in the opposite direction may indicate that he is, in fact and literally, an energy vampire...

jhj to the forum...

There are however identifiable political generations corresponding with periods of Conservative dominance: voters who came of age in the 1930s, 1950s and 1980s are ceteris paribus somewhat more Conservative.

As a parallel the changing demographics of a country, managing diversity and changes along with exceptional mobility will the older established parties represent people? Will the tory party be able to change enough bring new people to them?

It's worth finding the discussion piece on Jeff Sessions and Steve Bannon on their vision for the Republicans - they feel they are going to loose the GOP due to them becoming an actual minority - it explains a lot of their positions.

Another line from one of today's politics podcast we don't have enough data for accurate predictions especially if one data point blows your consensus.

There we have it, the naive belief that 'the Tory voters are going to die out' rather than be replaced by More Tory voters as people age.

Far from naïve ninfan, it was a tongue in cheek jibe not suggesting that conservative voters would 'die out' but that longer lives would lead to greater shift towards conservatism and thus a bigger conservative voter base.

If we had an average life expectancy 20 year younger, there would be less of a shift.

Compare that vote age graphic with this one for newspaper readership,

I see the super soaraway Sun is, as ever, the very pulse of our Nation. Let's be thankful for their responsible, balanced and intelligent contribution to the State Of Things, eh?

Another bit of data from the election.
So Sun readers were a bit more split than other Tory newspapers and lots didn't vote anyway, so their influence is fairly minimal.
Interesting stats for the Independent I thought and even more interesting for the FT

[img] [/img]

And this is probably the most telling of all:
Every single sector voted labour except the retired:

[img] [/img]

One more:
[img] [/img]

The Independent shouldn't be counted now it's been turned into a cross between Buzzfeed and The Canary.

Cliche which holds true imo

"If you are not a socialist when you are young you have no soul. If you are not a conservative in your later years you have no brain"

Nothing would be worse for UK public services than a Labour government

NHS/healthcare spending vs defence. Nasty Tories eh ?

[img] [/img]

Alex Labour snatched back their vote in the North by committing to Brexit and ending freedom of movement

Tory vote was at a high not seen since That her in '83

Alex you'll see I took the time to reply to your question just to get a load more trolling, I appreciate you can't be held respinsible for posts of others. Hard to see me bothering again.

I'm sorry jamba, but I have absolutely no time for your shit.

That's clear Alex, you are not interested in facts

Reported

DrJ yes damn us "rich" people buying expensive products with 20% VAT and providing work for dealers, maintainence craftsmen, sail makers and marina staff as well as local pubs and restaurants. Must add up to £100k in VAT over 15 years.

[quote=jambalaya ]That's clear Alex, you are not interested in [b]jamba[/b]facts
Reported

fixed.

DrJ yes damn us "rich" people buying expensive products with 20% VAT and providing work for dealers, maintainence craftsmen, sail makers and marina staff as well as local pubs and restaurants. Must add up to £100k in VAT over 15 years.

Oh us poor folk are so grateful for your kindness and generosity.

Alex Labour snatched back their vote in the North by committing to Brexit and ending freedom of movement

Evidence?

(yes, I'm joking - I know you don't do "evidence")

NHS/healthcare spending vs defence. Nasty Tories eh ?

I'd be interested to see an inflation adjusted graph.

Also - whatever the Tory spend, it's clearly not enough.

To the rest of you - stop being arseholes to Jambalaya. Play the ball not the man.

Tempted to report some of you myself. Getting pretty nasty in here.

Far from naïve ninfan, it was a tongue in cheek jibe not suggesting that conservative voters would 'die out' but that longer lives would lead to greater shift towards conservatism and thus a bigger conservative voter base.

Although, as his transformation progressed, I note that Maybot's equally alarming collapse in the opposite direction may indicate that he is, in fact and literally, an energy vampire...

NHS/healthcare spending vs defence. Nasty Tories eh ?

A rather odd comparison to make since it buys into the myth the tories are actually in favour of funding the military properly as opposed to using it and talking about support.
Really rather different things. You only need to look at Thatchers swinging cuts to the armed forces prior to the Falklands which helped make them vulnerable.

[quote=molgrips ]To the rest of you - stop being arseholes to Jambalaya. Play the ball not the man.
Tempted to report some of you myself. Getting pretty nasty in here.

maybe if he stopped playing the pantomime villian...

A rather odd comparison to make since it buys into the myth the tories are actually in favour of funding the military properly as opposed to using it and talking about suppor

Indeed I had a tour of my bro-in-laws ship 2 weeks ago, cost cutting means that the cruise missile bay is a gym as they cant afford the launchers and that the Navy now has less staff than Holland & Barrat !?! and is due to face even more cuts to cover the costs of bae systems ****g up their boats (I think MOD procurement equally to blame on that one)

He was in a massive dilema over who to vote for as he couldnt stomach corbyn, but was angry with tories fallon

jambalaya - Member
Alex Labour snatched back their vote in the North by committing to Brexit and ending freedom of movement

ashcroft & yougov polling on the result dont support your assertions at all

you can google them yourself

Tory vote was at a high not seen since That her in '83

wasnt that also the last time they had a majority bigger than 20?

jambalaya - Member

NHS/healthcare spending vs defence. Nasty Tories eh ?

(graph)

a graph that shows NHS funding rising after 1997, then stalling around 2010. Why do those dates seem important?

Play the ball not the man.

It's like Katie Hopkins, she only exists because people choose to react to her.

Don't engage.

You kick it back - they just ignore it

Then rather than laying into him, you should just ignore it and rise above.

To the rest of you - stop being arseholes to Jambalaya

I don't see anyone being arseholes. People are just tired of 'facts' and opinions put out with nothing to back them up and then when questioned it all goes quiet. Just wastes the time of anyone who engages and doesn't ever get anywhere but that is up to anyone that wants to bother.

I think you must be confusing me with someone else molgrips. I've never personally insulted someone on here afaik. Unless you think 'I've had enough of your shit' is just that. In which case I disagree.

I didn't single anyone out Alex.

Then rather than laying into him, you should just ignore it and rise above.

molgrips - Member

I didn't single anyone out Alex.

To the rest of you - stop being arseholes to Jambalaya. Play the ball not the man.

This is politics. The ball and the man are one and the same.

[quote=jambalaya ]

Nothing would be worse for UK public services than a Labour government

[img] [/img]

[img] [/img]
And this graph proves corbyn once had sex with a goat.

Nothing would be worse for UK public services than a Labour government

What's your point with that graph?

It clearly shows a slowing down of spending on the NHS around 2010 onwards.

It clearly shows a slowing down of [u]the rate of increase in[/u] spending on the NHS around 2010 onwards.

FTFY

Just out of interest, how long do you propose the NHS should keep on getting that rate of spending growth for? And what other services are you willing to sacrifice to achieve it?

hmm, the point is, you can't point at that graph, and say 'look how nice the tories are'...

Just out of interest, how long do you propose the NHS should keep on getting that rate of spending growth for? And what other services are you willing to sacrifice to achieve it?

It clearly shows a slowing down of the rate of increase in spending on the NHS around 2010 onwards.

Whats the difference between a slowing down and a slowing down of the rate of increase?

And what other services are you willing to sacrifice to achieve it?

I don't think you need to. We can stop effectively subsidising tax cuts and have better services?

Whats the difference between a slowing down and a slowing down of the rate of increase?

I don't think you need to. We can stop effectively subsidising tax cuts and have better services?

Just out of interest, how long do you propose the NHS should keep on getting that rate of spending growth for? And what other services are you willing to sacrifice to achieve it?

For as long as it needs to. More people (especially elderly) requires more money to treat them. Basic maths.
Money comes from taxation (the not so magic money tree) , not impact to other services.

It's going to take way more than that to get it under control, both parties plans are sticking plasters and basic fire fighting issues.

More people (especially elderly) requires more money to treat them. Basic maths.

It needs lifting out of who's giving x more as proved here it's only used for political points scoring.

Just a 'slowing down' would imply the graph trending down. Compare it to a car - its still currently accelerating - just not as hard as before.

Okay - so we can agree it's slowing down but specifically the rate at which money is spent.

Take a look at the graph again. 2005-2010 saw an increase of 40bn over a 5 year period. To maintain that through taxation we would need to take some revenue from a growing economy AND to 1% to income tax every year forever.

1% tax increase is not enough?

Money comes from taxation (the not so magic money tree) , not impact to other services.

I guess you didn't really think that through? Or look at the graph?
How are you realistically going to find an extra 8bn in taxation year on year every year for 10, 20, 30 years?

As mike correctly points out, the whole system needs an overhaul as there's simply no way we can fund even the current rate of growth in the long term.

1% tax increase is not enough?