Jeremy Corbyn

I disagree with you on this Junky - I can see exactly where she is coming from. Fundamentally she's saying that she'd do anything for her kid, because that's part of the culture she comes from - I'm not quite sure how she could say that without using terms you deem to be racist (perhaps you'd like to provide suggestions if you want to try and support your POV). I also find it uncomfortable people judging others for doing what they think is best for their children, even if that does in some way conflict with their politics.

I do not see how you can oppose something politically all your life and then do it and not be judged a hypocrite
She could have said

Like any parent [ she did not even need to bring gender into it] i did what was best for my child. took me about a second to think of that - not that hard is it?
I have no idea why she brought up race because its a universal parent thing rather than race/gender thing unless of course you have inviolable principles the kind you have espoused and fought for all your life.

Now contrast that with Corbyn

Following a difference of opinion about sending their son to a grammar school – Corbyn opposes selective education – they divorced in 1999, although Corbyn said in June 2015 that he continues to "get on very well" with his former wife

Now i think he might be being a tad extreme there but one cannot accuse him of hypocrisy
Her race or gender is irrelevant here is their a race that dont do this or gender?] . To suggest "other cultures" dont see it that way and that is why we are criticising her decision is fatuous bollocks of the highest order.

I dont think Dianne would appreciate me,as a white man, saying that to her if we disagreed on something about kids. I suspect she would use terms stronger than hypocrite.

big on sweeping generalisations and worthy taglines, short on detail with non-existant preparation.

Said without a hint of irony. Brexit means brexit, strong and stable, an un-costed manifesto with few policies, unprecedented u-turns, not answering questions, not talking to the public, need I go on?

Yes she was hypocritical.

Bit of a leap from that to say she deserves no respect though. And certainly doesn't justify her treatment (though I acknowledge you're not saying it does).

To even engage in debate over her merit as an individual fuels the insidious distraction of personality politics, IMO.

Only broken my personal rule to stay away from futile STW politics threads as I think people on both sides had gone too far with her.

I also think she was hypocritical - and the race thing seemed strange. Although I have no idea what it would have been like to grown up as a working class black kid in her time and the view of the world that that might form.

I also think that our expectations of politicians to be whiter than white sometimes gives lie to our own hypocrisy.

I mentioned in the earlier full-of-dog-whistling-right-wing-nut-jobs Abbott thread that I thought she wasn't quite 100% given her deteriorating public performances over the last few years - I'd always admired her ability to wind up middle aged white men and found their screams of "Racist" quite laughable - but also very telling.

If she really isn't well, I hope she recovers enough to come back as an MP if her constituents return her as they have quite a few times. If she's really quite well and just being kept out of the spotlight for political reasons, then it's a sad indictment of the personality politics in which we're wrapped.

I disagree with you on this Junky - I can see exactly where she is coming from. Fundamentally she's saying that she'd do anything for her kid, because that's part of the culture she comes from

so how come the STW lefties are so accepting of this but slag off white people sending their kids to private school? It's not just DA that's hypocritical.

so how come the STW lefties are so accepting of this but slag off white people sending their kids to private school? It's not just DA that's hypocritical.

I think some of them were slagging off the concept of 'white people' moaning at the VAT addition to independent school's fees. Rather than sending the the kids their per se.

so how come the STW lefties are so accepting of this but slag off white people sending their kids to private school? It's not just DA that's hypocritical.

The STW lefties are all saying it was awful and she's dead to them, but don't let that get in the way of your moronic prejudices.

[quote=TurnerGuy ]so how come the STW lefties are so accepting of this but slag off white people sending their kids to private school? It's not just DA that's hypocritical.

I'm not your typical STW "leftie" (which may be why I have a slightly different perspective to Junky), but I don't have a problem with anybody sending their kids to a private school if that's what they want to spend their money on and the opportunity is available. Any objection I might have is to the unfairness of the system, and more particularly to the amount of effective subsidy it gets from the state. It's quite nuanced, but IMHO it's possible to object to the existence of the system from the perspective of society but accept that your personal choices make no difference to that. To some extent it comes back to that misquoted Thatcher line about taking care of your own family first, which I presume everybody does to a greater or lesser extent.

Abbott's not had a good election but that article nails it. You see over and over people saying that she got where she is only through positive discrimination. And the evidence? Well she got where she is, and she's a black woman, how else could she have done it? When you look at what those first 4 went through on the way to getting elected, it's incredible that anyone can suggest they [i]benefitted[/i] from discrimination. To this day people still believe the smears that the media and Tories ran on Bernie Grant, the "high priest of conflict"...

The STW lefties are all saying it was awful and she's dead to them, but don't let that get in the way of your moronic prejudices.

not all of them.

Just a quick question...

Can anyone point me to DA actually criticising other parents for sending their kids to private schools. Or was it just a general Lefty thing ?

not all of them.

But you said:

so how come [b]the STW lefties are[/b]...

But you said:

so how come the STW lefties are...

If generalisation is good enough for nearly everyone else on this forum then it is good enough for me...

So you didn't mean what you said?

EDIT: Look, I realise nuance is difficult for you but if you want it in responses, then it would help to include some in your statement.

I can generalise that the STW lefties appear to be accepting of DA's hypocrisy over schooling her kids - witness very few poeple critising it.

Up to you whether you want to put your trust in a racist hyprocrite...

Up to you whether you want to put your trust in a racist hyprocrite...

Yes TurnerGuy, clearly nuance is difficult for your capabilities. Bless.

as opposed to the racist hypocrites that currently sit on the government benches?

evidence of their racist hypocracy ?

[img] [/img]

[img] [/img]

that aside our arms sales to countries like Saudi makes hypocrites of the last 30+ years of governments

Why? How many countries has Saudia Arabia invaded?

I can generalise that the STW lefties appear to be accepting of DA's hypocrisy over schooling her kids - witness very few poeple critising it.

That's funny because I've criticised it and so have several other 'STW lefties'.

But it's kind of hilarious for you to be complaining about racism when Boris Johnson is a leading figure in this government:

“the Queen has come to love the Commonwealth, partly because it supplies her with regular cheering crowds of flag-waving piccaninnies” (racist caricatures of dark-skinned children of African descent). “No doubt the AK47s will fall silent, and the pangas will stop their hacking of human flesh, and the tribal warriors will all break out in watermelon smiles to see the big white chief touch down”

See also:

'When Johnson was editor of The Spectator, an article was written which stated that “Orientals…have larger brains and higher IQ scores. Blacks are at the other pole”. '

“Orientals…have larger brains and higher IQ scores. Blacks are at the other pole”. '

Doesn't science actually say that both of these things are true though?

Oh dear god....

so how come the STW lefties are so accepting of this but slag off white people sending their kids to private school? It's not just DA that's hypocritical.

Like John?

https://order-order.com/2017/06/08/john-mcdonnells-school-days/

Everybody make sure your mum is safe, Zulu's on a roll again.

I see they have been getting the old rolling stock ready for if Corbyn gets in - spotted at Woking the other day :

[img] [/img]

I can generalise that the STW lefties appear to be accepting of DA's hypocrisy over schooling her kids

PS the jokes are not much better than the "thinking"

If any comrades haven't voted for our Marxist chancellor yet you'd better run along now, polling stations close in less than an hour.

I presume you mean "shadow chancellor" - it's ok, I realise details slip by you sometimes. Anyway, he wasn't standing in my constituency enfht. Was he standing in yours then?

I hope you had an EDL or BNP confidante to vote for this time round - though with it being a snap election, it seems they haven't had a great deal of time to get a campaign together.

TheDiane and Baroness Chakrabati should just be honest and say they send their kids to private school as they think (know) the academically focused standard of education is higher. Private schools also tend to offer better extra curricular activities and superior after school hours care. They could also point out that as they can afford private schooling they are relieving pressure on the state system by not taking up a place.

If any comrades haven't voted for our Marxist chancellor yet

Traitors Scoff 😉

Oops,The dog just flinched again. But I didn't hear anything. Too high pitched perhaps?

Private schools also tend to offer better extra curricular activities and superior after school hours care

. They could also point out that as they can afford private schooling they are relieving pressure on the state system by not taking up a place.

jambalaya.....

they think (know) the academically focused standard of education is higher.

No, it isn't:

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/education/2017/01/19/gcse-results-2016-top-100-secondary-schools/

"This year, nine of the top 10 schools for GCSE results were state schools, with Henrietta Barnett School in London scoring 100 per cent for students obtaining both 5 A*-Cs and the EBacc. "

Sorry- wrong.

I think we should all take a minute to thank those selfless Tories who took the time to help make this moment possible

cranberry - Member
He does seem like a proper lefty, with more than a hint of sandals... Is it too late to join labour so I can vote for him?
Not at all- there are full instructions here for the concerned conservative voter

Clicky clicky!

cranberry - Member
A socialist labour leader would-be great
On that we agree. I've paid £3 to make it happen.

cranberry - Member
I'll p*ss myself laughing if he wins. Other conservatives I've talked to love the idea of screwing up Labour for a decade for only £3.

Comrade Cranberry, we salute you [img] [/img]

Cranberry, I can't thank you and your temporary fellow travellers enough.

You should be very proud of yourself this morning.

Much appreciated, we couldn't have got this far without you.

Isn't it nice to make a difference?

Tories of STW, where are you this morning? Awfully quiet in here, anything wrong? 😆

I'm utterly gutted, I had it completely wrong, we can see now that Jeremy garnered overwhelming public support, and is in line to form the next government.

Oh, perhaps not.

It's hardly 1997 all over again is it?

OOH poor wee ninfan he cannot gloat about how much the Tories won by but by god he is still going to be trolling indafitagably [ and shittly]

Tories of STW, where are you this morning? Awfully quiet in here, anything wrong?

I voted Tory, nothing wrong here. Still have a Labour MP actress who despite doing nothing previously, got voted in again and will continue to do the same. Nothing.
Don't expect much change from Jeremy Corbyn either in opposition or the lack of it. He's still an activist, good at getting people charged up but not a leader. I expect he'll have a bit more confidence now especially with all the Blairite's that were suddenly creeping around him on TV last night so you might have some more far left leaning. Also expect Diane Abbott to make a miraculous recovery and back in here previous role.
More polarisation of the people and a lack of cooperation between the parties to achieve what the UK needs. I feel pretty sad for that though and wish there had been a more centre party for people to choose.

I did just look up the definition of 'landslide victory' just to make sure - does a move from a majority administration to a minority administration qualify.

Confused.

obo

Mrs Trellis
N. Wales

A landslide victory is an electoral victory in a political system, when one candidate or party receives an overwhelming majority of the votes or seats in the elected body, thus all but utterly eliminating the opponents.

I think we should all take a minute to thank those selfless Tories who took the time to help make this moment possible

I'm glad that's been remembered.

Eh Junky?

Jezza has proven, as we all said, to be unelectable. Sixty odd seats short of winning.

Now, theres no doubting that Theresa May has as well, but some of us said she was the wrong choice from the start.

Every cloud and all that. Clear Corbyn will stay on as leader now.

It's the direction of travel that the Tories should be worried about. Potentially worsening economy and messy Brexit divorce over the next few years, an awakened youth vote, and leaders with very questionable electoral appeal.

They won't want to go back for more in six weeks, or even six months...

It's hardly 1997 all over again is it?

jambalaya - Member
Every cloud and all that...

😆

ninfan - Member
I'm utterly gutted

[img] [/img]

[img] [/img]

[img] [/img]

Oh look i made ninfanny reply I feel great right now

Please do it again
Something outrageous/preposterous goes here to garner attention.

jambalaya

I have been on the right side of every vote. Ever.

jambalaya

100-150 majority

jambalaya

75-100 seat majority

jambalaya

Every cloud

😆

Every cloud and all that. Clear Corbyn will stay on as leader now.

You do realise he was one of the major reasons the Tories lost so much?

It's the direction of travel that the Tories should be worried about. Potentially worsening economy and messy Brexit divorce over the next few years, an awakened youth vote, and leaders with very questionable electoral appeal.

Yep. Corbyn was never going to win this time but he has done a fantastic job in giving people a choice which has previously been decided by Labour/others was not want people wanted.

Maybe more people want a fairer society than the tories hoped?

It's a good result given the circumstances but let's not forget that it only looks good because of how bad it looks earlier. Given the anti Tory sentiment and a weak leader Labour should have won by a landslide not have just done enough to hang parliament.

BUT

Corbyn himself has done tremendously well. He didn't quite beat the Tories but he managed to deal with a PLP that didn't want him and made the mainstream media look pretty bad. That takes some doing.

And he did that by being showing integrity and being right. Personal hero.

Given the anti Tory sentiment and a weak leader Labour should have won by a landslide not have just done enough to hang parliament.

As Zulu points out, it's not 1997. The anti-Tory sentiment isn't anything like it was twenty years ago. Back then the revulsion was right across the electorate. This time it was a mobilisation of those on the left plus some Tory remainers.

I agree and he has done admirably well- especially when you consider how shitty the personal attacks were on him - to not do the personal /ad homs but to stick to policies.

I also think long term it makes a lot of sense to garner the young vote as they will be yours for a while and the tory voters [ older] are [ literally] dying.

I agree its hard to say if this is a change of tact but it has shown that a genuinely left wing alternative can be popular with the populace

As Zulu points out, it's not 1997. The anti-Tory sentiment isn't anything like it was twenty years ago. Back then the revulsion was right across the electorate.

Yes, back then it needed a long period of political paralysis including a disastrous crashing out of a European financial arrangement...

Luckily, none of those ingredients look likely over the next few years. 🙂

Yes, back then it needed a long period of political paralysis including a disastrous crashing out of a European financial arrangement...

Luckily, none of those ingredients look likely over the next few years.

Get out! 🙂

Great result in many ways, if Corbyn had won he'd get to own the Brexit farce!

Even better with May's hard Brexit mandate in tatters, maybe the damage to the UK can be mitigated

All those wittering on about Diane Abbot's education decision about her children (as if that's the only thing she's ever done), or yakking about her poor TV performances whilst clearly she was very ill, need to read the attached and then have a serious think about your attitudes.

I'm not a fan particularly but, given her efforts, she deserves better. I'm not in favour of bullies and vicious internet a-holes.

[url= https://cookingonabootstrap.com/2017/06/07/we-need-to-talk-about-diane-abbott-now-explicit-content/ ]A good heart.[/url]

Well said woppit

enfht - Member
If any comrades haven't voted for our Marxist chancellor yet you'd better run along now, polling stations close in less than an hour.

Looks like enfht's rallying call may have backfired somewhat. 😆

She is still a hypocrite [over education] and she still used words and phrasing she would not let a white person say to her about her culture.

Her legacy and what she has achieved is impressive ans she is clearly very very bright . The barriers of outright racism and sexism she has faced [ and still does] is deplorable ;that does not mean she gets a free pass to be a hypocrite.

Even better with May's hard Brexit mandate in tatters, maybe the damage to the UK can be mitigated

Do you think the Tories limping along in with the mad dogs of the DUP is in any way mitigating damage ? I voted conservative hoping for some stability during the brexit negotiations. I'd prefer a full on Labour victory to what we have now.
Yes and well done to Corbyn he far exceeded expectations. Teresa May best I say nothing.

DUP favour a soft brexit, which Im now hopeful for

EU have all said they will give us time to forma stable government

Maybot & Davis are desperate to push-on and cling to power , not because they care about the country, but because they care about themselves- once theyve started the negotiations they assume that theyll be finishing it?

Regardless of what Diane Abbott had done in the past, it's exactly that not matter how good she may have been. The position of Home Secretary isn't an honorary title and requires hard work and commitment. I don't believe that she was ill, more become lazy and failed to prepare. If she wasn't up to the position JC should have put someone else in who was, that is leadership.
As for the personal attacks no more than any of the others I thought it was pretty evenly split and most of it the usual childish bollocks but DA and TM were the ones setting themselves up for the abuse.

kimbers - Member
DUP favour a soft brexit, which Im now hopeful for

+1

As for the personal attacks no more than any of the others

Yes, of course.

i think its almost certainly true she is ill as she is not dumb ; she is able enough to handle the brief/any brief.

The personal attacks she gets are clearly more than what others get and many are motivated by racism and sexism

So is this a glowing indictment of Corbyn's leadership? I can't help thinking that although Labour have done well, they haven't done [i]that[/i] well. They are still a long way behind the Tories. What do we think? I'm guessing that he'll be around for a while longer! 🙂

10 DUP MPs? How much away do you really think they'll have over a soft brexit

I don't believe that she was ill, more become lazy and failed to prepare

Yes, she has just been lazy, that it is.

As for the personal attacks no more than any of the others I thought it was pretty evenly split and most of it the usual childish bollocks but DA and TM were the ones setting themselves up for the abuse.

What the hell have you been looking at to come to the conclusion that personal attacks were the same and from who?

I never said she was dumb but had become lazy.

So is this a glowing indictment of Corbyn's leadership? I can't help thinking that although Labour have done well, they haven't done that well. They are still a long way behind the Tories. What do we think? I'm guessing that he'll be around for a while longer!

If you at actual votes and not seats there's 792248 votes between the two main parties across the whole of the UK. That's not really many at all.

The DUP must be rubbing their hands. You guys remember that NI has no executive at the moment don't you? So while that's still going on, these terrorist apologists can shape NI policy in return for propping up a weak Tory government.

Please lets not have peace in NI as the price for Brexit/Tory govt.

Regardless of what Diane Abbott had done in the past, it's exactly that not matter how good she may have been.

I haven't the slightest idea what that's supposed to mean.

Please lets not have peace in NI as the price for Brexit/Tory govt.

It wouldn't be a surprise as May's final legacy, would it? Given her track record. 🙁

The DUP must be rubbing their hands. You guys remember that NI has no executive at the moment don't you? So while that's still going on, these terrorist apologists can shape NI policy in return for propping up a weak Tory government.

Calm down a little there, the recent history of Northern Ireland means that neither side stands up to political scrutiny well. If you want to look for a candidate with no 'potential' connection to paramilitaries then you'd have to vote green or alliance.

Stormont will have to reform, what this means is that the DUP may have to ditch Arlene Foster as FM.

DUP favour a soft brexit, which Im now hopeful for

You think so ? I know their language has softened a bit (in public anyway) but plenty of Ian Paisley still in the party.

Plenty of right wing nut jobs would see it as a price worth paying. They need a bête noir like never before.

As ransos pointed out elsewhere, the amount of irony in this deal is staggering.