Jeremy Corbyn

[b]BLASPHEMERS!!!!! [/b]

😀

so very
unoriginal
and
boring

What special 'insight' is that then TJ?

the patient well thought out rebuttals from Ernie and Junkyard.

yes but
ant
and
dec

I feel for the poor dead horse, enough flogging by now surely. Let him rest in peace. Cruelty

Essentially this thread , ith the odd exception DAzH for example , is just RW troll bots stating they dont like left wingers and then clutching at tenuous straws to "prove" their bias- oh and THMS side splitting funny jokes
Its not a debate its not even pretending to be one as a glance at any page will show
I suspect the mods only allow it as it keeps all the usual suspects in one place

Jamby moaning about racism is priceless though
I might moan about spelling or copying and pasting 😉

binners - Member

Well given that he kept a handy barge pole with him during his entire campaign, just in case the beardy one showed up unannounced, I doubt his opinion has changed much for the better.

*awaits Ernie posting a picture of them both within the same postcode to show some kind of comradely solidarity*

You mean this one ?

[img] [/img]

Well here is another, different time different place same "postcode" apparently.

[img] [/img]

I'm amazed that you still maintain this completely made up nonsense binners that Sadiq Khan was well known to Londoners and that they didn't vote for him simply because he was the official Labour Party candidate.

Most Londoners knew absolutely nothing about Sadiq Khan other than Cameron said he backed terrorists and that Corbyn supported him.

[url= http://blogs.spectator.co.uk/2016/04/pmqs-david-cameron-brings-up-sadiq-khans-extremist-links/ ]PMQs: David Cameron brings up Sadiq Khan’s extremist links[/url]

[b][i]Jeremy Corbyn delivered his best performance as leader of the opposition today, questioning David Cameron on why all schools will have to become academies. He skilfully exploited Tory splits over the issue. The relative silence from the Tory benches did nothing to shake the impression that this is a policy in trouble; which is a pity given that too many local authorities continue to exert a negative influence on education.

But the most heated moment of the session came later when Cameron started talking about Sadiq Khan having shared a platform with extremists. When Cameron said that the Labour candidate for Mayor of London had shared a platform nine times with Suliman Gani – who has said awful thing about homosexuals – the Labour benches became outraged. Someone shouted ‘racist’.[/i][/b]

Of course they might of also heard Lord Sugar's claims that Sadiq Khan "single-handedly ruined" the Labour Party :

[url= http://www.independent.co.uk/news/people/lord-sugar-launches-blistering-attack-on-sadiq-khan-for-single-handedly-ruining-labour-a6998211.html ]Lord Sugar launches blistering attack on Sadiq Khan for single-handedly ruining Labour[/url]

[b][i]The billionaire businessman accused Mr Khan of being personally responsible for wrecking the Labour Party as Lord Sugar branded the City Hall favourite and Jeremy Corbyn the "Laurel and Hardy" of politics.[/i][/b]

The problem is that anyone who doesn't happen to share your view is accused of trolling. There's no debate because your position is unsustainable and you know it and you fall into the category of just repeating ad nauseum your navel gazing left wing mantras that failed so spectacularly in the 1970s and 1980 and are now history.

The thing is I am or was a centre left Labour voter (sometimes Plaid)and I don't see anything about JC that would ever convince me to vote Labour again - he is breathtakingly naïve (his comments about honouring NATO treaty obligations last week must have had Putin rubbing his hands in glee - I thought Kevin Pork was a work of fiction but perhaps not as is now JC/Momentum policy).

I want to be convinced but generally being accused of not having some sort of mythical insight is quite offensive. So come on - convince me.

Nipper, it's not hard to see who is the keener (desperate?) to suppress debate here and jn the real world and why. But how can you have serious debate when the subject matter is so ridiculous? That's why it's important to retain a SoH. Has the Frimge ended yet?

Still given the proximity of Sadiq and Jezza shown in Ernies nice photos this might be interesting

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-37146729

But it is from the biased BBC and so probably the quotes are made up completely.

NIpper - I wasn't referring to you as I made clear. I haven't seen your posts on this thread due to not reading all the pages so I don't know if you understand the issues or not.

Still given the proximity of Sadiq and Jezza shown in Ernies nice photos this might be interesting

"21 August 2016" That is a considerable period of time [i]after[/i] the London mayoral election 🙄

.

TopTip (because it pains me) "But it is from the biased BBC and so probably the quotes are made up completely." Sarcasm works best when it is actually funny.

Even more time to form an opinion then Ernie. Is he a fan?

Nipper - have you had your understanding checked first before entering the thread? You may not qualify... 😉

Even more time to form an opinion then Ernie. Is he a fan?

So he's joined the plotters and is no different to 80% of Labour MPs, where's the surprise ?

And what has that got to do with binners ridiculous claim that Sadiq Khan won the mayoral election because he was opposed to Corbyn?

Did Londoners all have crystal balls that could see what Sadiq Khan would be saying on 21 August 2016 ffs?

Sadiq's comments where published today by the Observer so we can discount them as they where (delete as appropriate) from a Blairite/Red Tory/Biased Media

Corbyn has made it his life's work to disagree with the Labour Party. As such I am not remotely surprised to see how this is panning out. Saddened yes but not surprised

So he's joined the plotters and is no different to 80% of Labour MPs, where's the surprise ?

There is none. He has been much closer to Jezza than either of us and formed his own opinion.

And what has that got to do with binners ridiculous claim that Sadiq Khan won the mayoral election because he was opposed to]Corbyn?

Nothing, why are you bringing it up? Khan made his comments today. As you said, the mayoral election was quite a while ago.

Nothing, why are you bringing it up? Khan made his comments today. As you said, the mayoral election was quite a while ago.

You're even dafter than I thought.....it's YOU who brought it up and tried to connect the two ! 😆

Still given the proximity of Sadiq and Jezza shown in Ernies nice photos this might be interesting

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-37146729

Indeed, they have close experience of each other - daft I know - and hence, as historians might suggest, a source who might have current and interesting insight. And back to what he said (or is reported to have said 😉 ) any comment or just "no surprise"?

The problem is that anyone who doesn't happen to share your view is accused of trolling

Corbyn has made it his life's work to disagree with the Labour Party.

FFS stop making shit up

This is what I call trolling -its patent nonsense

Its reasonable to say he has not always agreed with the leadership, that he has been a rebel , sometimes on the fringes of the party or something factual the evidence supports but that is risible gibberish of the lowermost order as per from him.

I don't see anything about JC that would ever convince me to vote Labour again - he is breathtakingly naïve (his comments about honouring NATO treaty obligations last week must have had Putin rubbing his hands in glee

Yes the only thing stopping Putin right now is what Corbyn says and now he will invade Poland or something...good point well made 🙄

I do agree that JC does say some daft things as he is not good at soundbites and the media then misrepresent what he actually said to mean something he never said. FOlk then swallow this then claim its true - its like the EU repeat the lies often enough and folk just start believing it even when its not true - unelected bureaucrats being a great example

Ok... So I'm theoretically willing to entertain the notion that JC's detractors may be correct..

Maybe they're not terrified of the positive effect that Corbyn's political ideologies will have on society, and maybe they're not spouting claptrap in an effort to derail his cause..
(I actually doubt this very much, and happen to believe that they and their supporters are morally reprehensible spineless toads with ugly agendas)

But what we have certainly been gifted with in JC, is a legitimate protest vote for the silent majority that are finally being stirred into action..
The proposition that there could be an alternative to the greed and corruption of the establishment..
Whilst there hasn't been much point in anyone with nothing to lose engaging with politics for the last few decades.. suddenly the silent majority, the real working class, have been shown a glimpse of something more palatable...

Stuff your moronic middle class canutes worrying about their annual car upgrades, and stuff the rabid right wing moaning about imaginary immigrants taking their imaginary jobs...
The silent majority see right into your blackened cry-baby souls, and are ready to give you the little push required to tip you over the edge... To gently herd you into the abyss and consign your outdated sense of pride and esteem to the history books where it belongs

The evolved are about to stand up

Of course I would prefer world peace but i'm not naïve enough to think it can be achieved. As the first duty of government is the defence of the realm .......

Ernie, they are the before photos.

The approved version now looks like this:

[IMG] [/IMG]

(For those of you who don't get the context: http://www.tc.umn.edu/~hick0088/classes/csci_2101/false.html )

theauthorities - Member
so very
unoriginal
and
boring

what was
the name
of
your previous
log in?

(By the way, you're trying a little bit too hard at the silly ee cummings-esque mode of typing. I'm sure it's all part of your new nom de plume's 'character' but it's very silly.)

yes it's very silly..

The esteemed tastemaker CFH has decreed it so you must cease immediately 🙄

what a dick

As the first duty of government is the defence of the realm .......

We should invade a few more countries as well just to be sure

I think Sadiq must read the forum. He's just set the record straight of what he thinks of JC. 😆

CFH - There's one missing character I can think of who had a unique typing style and a deep seated hatred of 'the authorities' 😉

what a dick

Ouch. That like really hurts my feelings, man.

you have no feelings as clearly evidenced by your choice of footwear

I think if JC, or OS, managed to get Daesh around a table and to call a truce I would be impressed and might change my viewpoint about his idea of world peace.

I would contribute to funding his trip out to the middle east to see them, and also any funeral arrangements.

Imagine if a corbyn supporter had said this about a Jew or a lady?

he is breathtakingly naïve

I keep reading this and it's an incredibly lazy, patronising and pessimistic argument. Naive about what exactly? That international problems can't be solved without killing thousands of people and laying waste to whole countries? That social problems like poverty, crime, exploitation and hopelessness can't be tackled? That the status quo can't be challenged? This is exactly what the labour party was setup to do. If it's naive to think any of this then maybe that explains why the labour party establishment is having such trouble resisting Corbyn and his followers.

Of course I would prefer world peace but i'm not naïve enough to think it can be achieved

I thought I was pretty far along the scale of nihilistic cynicism so thanks for re-adjusting my boundaries.

This is exactly what the labour party was setup to do

Given that the Labour Party won six general elections prior to Blair, and never managed to achieve any of those laudible goals, don't you think that a belief that Jeremy can succeed in doing so is somewhat naive?

1 [i][b]“I would want to avoid us getting involved militarily. I want to achieve a world in which we don’t need to go to war.”

2 “My view is that, ultimately, all solutions to these international crises do come about through dialogue, so eventually if we are to try to solve this all of the actors do need to be involved. But at the moment Isil are clearly not interested in negotiating. At some point for us to resolve this, we will need to get people round the table.”
[/i][/b]

Two quotes from two people. One quote caused outrage the other one was brushed under the carpet.

It's impossible to know which quote caused the outrage without knowing which quote is attributed to who.

But here's a clue. Suggesting dialogue with Putin is tantamount to treason whilst suggesting dialogue with ISIS is well, you know......sometimes you need to talk to people you don't really like.

Given that the Labour Party won six general elections prior to Blair, and never managed to achieve any of those laudible goals

beveridge report never happened and was certainly not implemented.

No, it was never fully implemented, I agree (flat rate contributions for example)

Just think, when they planned the NHS, they thought that it would get smaller as people got healthier 🙂

ninfan - Member

Just think, when they planned the NHS, they thought that it would get smaller as people got healthier

They didn't.

[i][b] "We shall never have all we need. Expectations will always exceed capacity. The service must always be changing, growing and improving - it must always appear inadequate" [/i][/b]

- Nye Bevan, Labour Health Minister, June 1948 (2 weeks before the NHS was founded)

Churchill's commitment to creating a welfare state was limited and he and the Conservative Party opposed much of the implementation of the Beveridge Report, including voting against the founding of the NHS.[8]

The Labour Party won the 1945 general election on a platform that promised to address what the Beveridge report called "the five giant evils" of society: Want, Disease, Ignorance, Squalor, and Idleness.

never managed to achieve any of those laudible goals

@ yunki - who exactly are the 'real working class'- I don't even know what that phrase means. I know lots of people who work hard for a living and aspire to improve their lot in life and I come across lots who can't be arsed. I also come across lots who would like to be able to get to the former position but need a helping hand to so (I would count myself in that last group in terms of being able to get easy access to tertiary education as a mature student). I didn't think of myself as a member of any particular class before hand or since. I do see a class people who are happy to be ignorant and wear their ignorance as some badge of honour - is that the 'real working class'?

@ dazh - as I mentioned above, my contempt for JC and his ilk are that they allowed Thatcher free reign and to transform society to what it is today. To think you can unpick that is naïve because its not what people want - it would be like pretending something like the enlightenment didn't happen (not that i'm comparing Thatcher to the enlightenment - pick the major societal event of your choosing). The best that can be hoped for is to curb the worst excesses of a lurch too far to the right - see Rawls justice as fairness if you like (Amazon workers on zero hours contracts sleeping in bus shelters because they wouldn't be able to get to work on time otherwise and don't want to risk losing a days pay but I bet the 'real working class', who ever they are, tap away online buying their shit from Amazon). As to JCs views on humanity see EDM 1255 in the 2003–04 session of Parliament. Sadly, many thousands of years of human history show us to be quite an unpleasant species and we might wish it was otherwise but its not - think Hobbes and the life of man in the state of nature etc.

my contempt for JC and his ilk are that they allowed Thatcher free reign and to transform society to what it is today.

Yes, definitely, no effective opposition - they didn't oppose her because of socialist naivety and daydreaming and a public fed up of being held hostage by what was perceived (and was) weak labour governments being undermined by overweening trade unions.

I get your point - weak opposition helped her deliver her agenda- however its still the fault of those who did it and not those who opposed it.

Actually its not the left that let thatcher in. It was splittists from the right of the labour party forming the SDP and splitting the leftwing vote. something some of the gang of four have regretted ever since.

so yes this could well be history repeating itself as the right of the labour party are going to be responsible for greater periods of tory rule by damaging the party.

Which is doing more damage to the labour party. corbyn or the right with their constant undermining of him? You know - the daily press releases etc all aimed at causing maximum damage. Stuff like Alexanders piece in the guardian the other day where she outright lies about her motivations.

Genuine question, if a government has a majority what can the opposition do?

Labour couldn't stop Andrew Landsleys NHS changes going through despite Miliband being ahead in the polls and the party united behind him. Bedroom tax etc

It seems like people want Corbyn to look a certain way and would be happy if he scored the odd point in PMQs.

Which is doing more damage to the labour party. corbyn or the right with their constant undermining of him?

Noted but if the opposition had got their act together it might have been one term rather than the rest - all that was achieved was the split and the SDP and that should tell you something about peoples wish for moderately left of centre party.

@tj agree completely the PLP are weakening Labour by their behaviour. They are giving the Tories sticks to hit Corbyn with!

Brexit was a complete Tory **** up and Corbyn is being blamed for it!