Jeremy Corbyn

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dazh - Member
God forbid we might have an outbreak of real democracy. Are you really saying that a process that has gained the party more members than ever before, has motivated more union members to affiliate than ever before, gained a huge number of supporters who want to have a part in the party's future, and which has energised and transformed the leadership debate and potentially transformed politics in the whole country, is a shambles? From where I'm sitting it looks like an unbridled success, but I guess that depends on whether you think normal people should be involved in politics or whether we just leave it all to our masters to decide what's best.

I agree with all of that. The Blairites seem determined to massively **** it all up though.

why? the process seems pretty well run, transparent and successful (so far).

@dazh how can it be a victory for democracy if I can oay £3 to vote for someone I think is a total nut job ?

Corbyn voted against Labour governments 400 times in his carear as an MP, yet he didnt have the courage to stand as an Independent despite rarely agreeing with his own Party when in government

IMO a big chunk of these are doing so to consign LBour to the wilderness via a Corbyn win

That's an opinion. It's not evidence.

Edit. Repeat post.

@gofaster, drinking wine thats all a bit Champagne socialist isnt it ? Perhaps not surprising given he's part of the Islington elite ? 🙂

jambalaya - Member

How can it be @kona if anybody with £3 can vote even if they are totally anti Labour ? On the BBC last night they said 250,000 people had registered in the last couple of weeks. IMO a big chunk of these are doing so to consign LBour to the wilderness via a Corbyn win

Aye, just ignore the full breakdown of numbers I posted yesterday, because it's inconvenient. There are 70000 £3 voters, total. The 250000 mentioned is all types of voters- members, affiliate members, and £3s. So your post amounts to saying "People who need to register in order to vote, are registering in order to vote."

People signing up to vote are overwhelmingly doing it by the traditional, uncontroversial methods. £3 voters amount to about 15% of the total registered.

I think this sums up most people's understanding of the candidates agendas in the leadership contest;

[img] [/img]

That's an opinion. It's not evidence.

In jambatrackworld, the two are often one and the same thing.

I never did get this "champagne socialist" thing. Why can't a person enjoy a glass of bubbly now and then and also be a socialist?

Presumably socialism is about bringing all the good stuff within reach of everybody? So...

(Edit: Prefer Prosecco meself, like.)

How can it be @kona if anybody with £3 can vote even if they are totally anti Labour ?

They can't.

Next!

why? the process seems pretty well run, transparent and successful (so far).

How can it be @kona if anybody with £3 can vote even if they are totally anti Labour?

I don't understand your point. in what way does that make the process badly run, non-transparent or unsuccessful? be specific.

@gofaster, drinking wine thats all a bit Champagne socialist isnt it ? Perhaps not surprising given he's part of the Islington elite ?

how can it be a victory for democracy if I can oay £3 to vote for someone I think is a total nut job ?

So people should only be allowed to vote if they vote for a candidate that others deem are acceptable? The shambles, if there is one, is that the labour MPs who nominated him and are now regretting it, are so out of touch and arrogant that they couldn't see that people might actually want to support him. And if they couldn't see it, they should be asking some questions of themselves as to whether they should be labour MPs.

what is the Islington elite? why do you think Corbyn is part of it?

The Islington elite are posh privileged people in the Labour Party, like Tony Blair. Corbyn is obviously part of it because he is an Islington Labour MP.

Life is so simple when you're a Tory spongebrain.

The Islington elite are posh privileged people in the Labour Party, like Tony Blair. Corbyn is obviously part of it because he is an Islington MP.

The elite is people like Owen Jones, oxbridge educated part of the 1% higher earners 😉

The elite is people like Owen Jones, oxbridge educated part of the 1% higher earners

big_n_daft - Member
The elite is people like Owen Jones, oxbridge educated part of the 1% higher earners

Wey hey, Owen Jones becomes part of The Establishment, the circle is squared. We can STFU and get in with doing really stuff like running businesses, looking after sick people, teaching kids, shooting nasty folk..... 😉

The elite is people like Owen Jones, oxbridge educated part of the 1% higher earners

So is the Islington elite are posh privileged people in the Labour Party, like Tony Blair and Owen Jones. Corbyn is obviously part of it because he is an Islington Labour MP.

"Man of the people".......I ask you. Those sandals and pens in his shirt pocket don't fool anyone.

I never did get this "champagne socialist" thing. Why can't a person enjoy a glass of bubbly now and then and also be a socialist?

Presumably socialism is about bringing all the good stuff within reach of everybody? So...

It's odd because although it has its roots (i think) in mid-20th C Russia, where the party bosses swanned around in massive cars drinking champers while telling the proles to eat their gruel and be happy, it has now become a stick for the rightwing to beat the left with: the argument, clearly nonsensical, generally goes that if you don't live under a bridge, it's hypocritical to want to help people who do live under bridges.

The irony is that the term was used to insult those who claimed 'We're all in it together' as a justification for inflicting poverty on others, whilst enjoying huge wealth themselves. Which has a certain resonance in the UK in 2015, just not on the left...

@dazh how can it be a victory for democracy if I can oay £3 to vote for someone I think is a total nut job ?

Indeed victory for democracy is when you pay nothing to vote for a total nut job.

Well pay nothing up front anyway

Champagne socialist is more to do with the upper middle classes redistributing farmstock or machinery of the working class while not suffering the same fate themselves and continuing their previous standard of living. Its socialism in the communist sense. Marx would fall into this category as he used capitalist profits to fund his daughters piano lessons while 'moaning' about capitalism and profits.

[quote=dragon said] while 'moaning' about capitalism and profits.

Was that on the "Dog sh*tting in my back garden" thread ?

Marx would fall into this category as he used capitalist profits to fund his daughters piano lessons

WTF? 😯

I dream of a revolutionary world free of piano players.

Bleeding champagne socialists.

Well I've changed my mind now, Corbyn can kiss my arse - I'm voting for Liz Kendall. Thank **** for sensible debates on STW, I almost made a terrible mistake.

It's odd because although it has its roots (i think) in mid-20th C Russia, where the party bosses swanned around in massive cars drinking champers...

All we need now to further fuel this outbreak of democracy is one of the other war criminals to pipe up. Where is Jack Straw these days?

And with inevitable timing, guess who pops up of C4 News tonight? He didn't even have anything original to say, just 'I agree with Tony'. You can easily imagine these people on their death beds muttering 'we were right and everyone else was wrong!'.

grum - Member

Jambalaya - does it ever get boring doing your crappy trolling or do you genuinely believe the utter nonsense you consistently come out with? You really are stunningly misinformed/wrong about virtually any given topic.

Yeah[b] I'm being a bit rude[/b]

Jack Straw wants us to believe that :

[i]"One of the effects for certain of a vote for Jeremy Corbyn, if he were to become leader, is that the party that would most benefit from, this aside from the Conservatives, is the Lib Dems.

It would be like Lazarus, they would rise from the dead, if Jeremy Corbyn was to become leader, rejuvenate them when they actually down and out"[/i]

How does he know? Can we trust him? Does he have a crystal ball?

Well just like everyone else who is now predicting with complete certainty what a Corbyn victory will mean (note the use of the term [i]"the effects for certain"[/i]) it comes as a complete surprise to Jack Straw that Corbyn is hugely popular in the Labour Party and will quite possibly win the leadership election.

So the man who was utterly clueless about the feelings and views of his own party members wants you to trust that he knows the feelings and views of ordinary working people.

He hasn't apparently even worked that the LibDem vote didn't collapse because they were seen as too left-wing but because they were seen as indistinguishable from the Tories.

Personally, i really don't understand how you can disagree with what he's saying here.

Well unless you have a vested interest in the theft of public assets. In that case, **** you! 😆

They can't.

The Liberal Democrats must be absolutely loving this, from a position of facing total obscurity they are right back in the game with the centre / centre left ground to play for as the Labour Party leap leftwards off a cliff into oblivion. EDiT: @ernie I see Jack Straw has beaten me to "publication" on this one

Once again, go for it Corbyn I hope you win by a landslide in the first round.

@grum please point to the post where you think I'm trolling, I'd be most amused to see which one and to ask why you think it's a troll.

FWIW I think the whole "Islington elite" / "Champagne socialist" categorisation is nonsense

Go Jeremy go.

Yvette has waded in to say that Corbyn has no economic credibility

This is the woman married to Ed Balls

Satire is now officially dead

Stil no actual policies from Yvette though.

Nu Labour all over

jambalaya - Member
Yes they can @Ranso's - the Labour Party have no way and certainly not the rescources to vet the applicants and even then unless they can trace them to membership of a political party they can't tell what their political leanings are or why they are registering to vote.

They do have a pretty good records of voting intentions and party affiliation. Those who are going to pay to vote for Corbyn are going to be pretty strong pre-existing intentions.

The reality is that the 3 other candiates know they can't win so are now trying to bring the legitimacy of the vote, not only this the Tories will focus on the legitimacy of Corbyn as that is the easiest way for them to attack him from the start.

They do have a pretty good records of voting intentions and party affiliation.

With the best will in the world they can't be that good as they thought they were going to win the last election. That said, I agree the infiltration risk is being overplayed and "Tories for Corbyn", which is a rather juvenile idea, will have no measurable effect.

Stil no actual policies from Yvette though.

Just saw her on Newsnight, I was frankly shocked how bad she was..... "feminist infrastructure" ffs. She sounded more slippery than Blair. The scary thing is that she stands a very vague chance of being the next Labour leader. Has zero chance imo of being the next Labour prime minister though. She looked like a Spitting Image caricature of the stereotypical New Labour politician.

With the best will in the world they can't be that good as they thought they were going to win the last election.

Eh? It wasn't the Labour Party which predicted the election result. Besides, the prediction wasn't that Labour would win but that it would fall short of a majority.

Canvass returns where they exist could be quite useful I imagine.

Internally my understanding was that they were pretty confident of being able to form a government, indeed frosty, who if I recall correctly was involved in the campaign, expressed his excitement on here. Perhaps I read more confidence into that excitement that merited.

Well plenty of newspapers headlines predicted that Labour would be the largest party, I'm not sure that the Labour Party was responsible for that.

But I get your point. Let's not pay too much attention to those who claim that they can predict the next general election result.

That was your point, right ?

My point was in the second sentance, my first was just whimsy.

Well I agree with your point in the second sentence.

But let's remember why that is.

It's because Corbyn appears to be so popular, and he will probably win by such a huge margin, that a few thousand votes from a bunch of Tory voting Telegraph readers won't affect the result.

The irony is that the man hailed by the Daily Telegraph as a guaranteed loser is probably going to win by such a huge margin that he will render their gimmick completely pointless.

mefty - Member
Internally my understanding was that they were pretty confident of being able to form a government, indeed frosty, who if I recall correctly was involved in the campaign, expressed his excitement on here. Perhaps I read more confidence into that excitement that merited.

In my area our canvas for labour support for the local elections was spot on, the GE results got skewed by an EM and SNP effect that combined screwed us badly. In the local elections we got our best results in probably a decade or more.

Marx would fall into this category as he used capitalist profits to fund his daughters piano lessons while 'moaning' about capitalism and profits.

a bit like the sons of a Marxist who became millionaires via property inherited from dad via rather tax efficient retrospective alterations of the will

binners - Member

Yvette has waded in to say that Corbyn has no economic credibility

This is the woman married to Ed Balls

Satire is now officially dead

LOL

her media training was glaring out from the TV on Newsnight, as was the policy vacuum

The irony is that the man hailed by the Daily Telegraph as a guaranteed loser is probably going to win by such a huge margin that he will render their gimmick completely pointless.

It wasn't their gimmick it was Toby Young's, I don't think there was an editorial comment on the matter but I am happy to be proved wrong. The Telegraph has lots of columnists who have a wide range of views, one is even a Labour MP, so just because something is in the Telegraph, don't assume it is an editorial view. Even if the result is closer than currently expected, I think the number is de minimis.

EDIT: There is a lefty one, but she is not an MP.

It would be like Lazarus, they would rise from the dead, if Jeremy Corbyn was to become leader, rejuvenate them when they actually down and out"

Followed a few minutes later by

jambalaya - Member
The Liberal Democrats must be absolutely loving this, from a position of facing total obscurity they are right back in the game