Jeremy Corbyn

AFAIC the parents who send their kids to the three schools I saw *are* subsidizing the state schools at the expense of their own kids.

They're buying what they perceive to be an education which will be of more advantage to their kids than a state education. The fact that they may be misguided in this enterprise is entirely irrelevant, and can't be construed as 'subsidising' the state system as some sort of benevolent act. Yes, the state may benefit in a short-sighted financial sense from these fools being parted with their money, but there are many others reasons why a 2-tier education system is a bad idea.

"Yes, the state may benefit"

Phew, we got there in the end.

Phew, we got there in the end.

Don't be stupid, I'm arguing that whilst the state may derive a small direct financial benefit, it pays a lot more due to the negative effects to society at large. If you follow your logic, then state education (and everything else for that matter) is unnecessary for all but the very poorest and should be of the lowest quality.

"I'm arguing that whilst the state may derive a small direct financial benefit,"

You've conceded the point I was arguing. If you want to argue about something else maybe someone else will oblige.

[swoon]You've conceded the point I was arguing. If you want to argue about something else maybe someone else will oblige.[/swoon]

Labour are ****ed over the education system, they are ****ed over everything. This is an education policy announcement? FFS They need to do a bit more. It seems likely that they've got a bit of time so they should come up with a cogent, ambitious and optimistic vision for GB and how Labour can realise it.

Hitchens on QT "Yes Corbyn can't win an election- that is clear. But the real point is the Labour Party can't win an election, whomever the leader"

Genius policy.

How about VAT on private medical treatment to help fund the NHS as well?
VAT on property sales to fund new council houses?

None of these ideas carry any risk at all of unplanned behavioural response.

unplanned behavioural response

Do you mean like raiding people's pensions, making them less safe, making people buy houses to let as a means of saving for retirement - that sort of thing ?

The current generation have little to thank Labour for.

[I]Private edudcation is a gift to UK state schools, people paying income taxes for services they don't use. I understand the politics of those parents kids in classes of 35 being hacked off at classes of 20 for those with money to pay privately. So address state system. [/I]

I'm agreeing with Jamba, and when I looked at what we spent vs what was spent per head in the state system - WTF did they do with the money?

And my youngest's fees were basically paid by me driving around in crap cars (+30k pa) and us not going on holiday - and if others cared as much they could sacrifice too.

Very public spirited of you! You sound like one of those people who gets a special award off Davina McCall on those programmes on ITV where people cry a lot to little films accompanied by a Coldplay soundtrack

me driving around in crap cars (+30k pa) and us not going on holiday - and if others cared as much they could sacrifice too.

FFS this is exactly what I mean. You lot really do think you're doing everyone else a favour by splashing your cash around don't you? If having a shit car and not going on the annual ski holiday and jolly to Barbados is sacrifice then I want my sainthood. And you lot wonder why you're despised by those less fortunate.

And you lot wonder why you're despised by those less fortunate

Maybe he just has more cash to splash because he's better at his job than you are?

And my youngest's fees were basically paid by me driving around in crap cars (+30k pa) and us not going on holiday - and if others cared as much they could sacrifice too.

£30k pa saving on cars?
If people care enough they'll sacrifice whatever it takes to pay the extra VAT then?

And maybe he has more cash to splash because the path to his job was more fortunate than others?

And I say this as someone who currently has a pretty decent job and am good at it(although I am currently quite frustrated by it) but spent most of my life working shitty jobs, and the only real difference between my current position and my previous ones is luck.

[I]£30k pa saving on cars?[/I]

No, I was doing +30k mileage pa.

[I]And maybe he has more cash to splash because the path to his job was more fortunate than others?[/I]

Left school at 16, went to college. Started as a trainee programmer in 1983 and worked up from there.

And my OH also did the same, but trained as a hairdresser before getting into sales and then into project management.

Maybe we just worked HARD.

[img] [/img]

Lol at the 30k mileage frothing 🙂

So Labour quoted IFS research which it claimed free primary school meals boosted academic results. Humiliatingly for Labour today the IFS pointed out that it's research only referenced deprived areas and said nothing about a braoder national impact 😳

And my youngest's fees were basically paid by me driving around in crap cars (+30k pa) and us not going on holiday - and if others cared as much they could sacrifice too.

Whatever education options you accessed - it obviously totally failed to give you a realistic perspective.

Its an eye catching policy but there are considerably better uses for the money in the sector. After all universal free school meals also subsidises the slightly less rich. So good politics, not a great policy, still a hell of a step forward for Labour.

Correct me if I'm wrong but TV licences aside, I didn't think the UK tax system was based on hypothecation i.e. Justifying a tax increase by saying that it will be specifically be spent on something. So Corbyn's saying that the tax raised will be spent on free meals? Bollocks. It will go into an amorphous pot and be spent in line with the Government's priorities which probably doesn't include free lunches.

Nice dig at Dianne Abbott by Tim Farron on QT....

"The main difference between us and the Labour Party is that we actually want to be in power!"

😆

Binners I admire your strength at even tuning in to QT with The Diane.

Exactly right on the tax point above.

And whether you like the way Jambs wrote his post or not be is right, as there is no evidence that free school meals for all would improve anything.

Oh. Diane is on QT is she? I thought my dog was acting like she could hear something. Couldn't quite hear it myself - too high frequency I guess.

What was vile about what I posted ? I was quoting the Professor from the IFS - Labour misrepresented their research. I think corbyn's rehash of Labour's 1983 Manifesto pledge is unworkable and will be counterproductive putting greater strain on the state sector. If Corbyn wants to be radical and principalled just abolish all private schools. I was lucky enough to have a very well oaid job and put 3 kids through private school whilst paying high taxes including for education which my kids didn't use (till 16 as 2 of them chose to go to state 6th form). If I didn't believe in the welfare state I would have worked abroad and paid less tax.

I was quoting the Professor from the IFS

So Labour quoted IFS research which it claimed free primary school meals boosted academic results. Humiliatingly for Labour today the IFS pointed out that it's research only referenced deprived areas and said nothing about a braoder national impact

You didn't quote anyone. You said that the IFS "only referenced deprived areas", like deprived areas are irrelevant and those less fortunate than you don't count for anything. That's pretty vile, I think.

Maybe we just worked HARD.

So you worked hard to deprive yourself of holidays to pay for something that you could get for free? That is indeed an admirable goal in life. I doff my cap. 🙄

[img] [/img]

You didn't quote anyone. You said that the IFS "only referenced deprived areas", like deprived areas are irrelevant and those less fortunate than you don't count for anything. That's pretty vile, I think.

IFS says free school meals help the deprived. It does not provide any evidence to suggest that the same benefit is delivered in a non-means tested approach of free school meals for everyone. Where government resource is limited, surely it should be targeted on the basis of both evidence and need?

I live in Scotland, where SNP gave free school meals to P1-3, irrespective of means testing. At my wife's school, uptake increased but mainly amongst those paying for it already, and the school lost outdoor space having to build an extra dining hall (instead of replacing the 3 portakabin classrooms which are disintegrating). No matter which way you look at it, that's not the best use of limited resources.

I listened to QT on the radio. Green bloke came across well.

Tim Frron cant seem to take advantage of the 50 open goals the Libs have. Gravitas bypass.

Dianne is like a panto baddie! But has good tekkers at not answering questions. She nearly came out against Ken.

Whahey! Morning folks, I'm a salutary lesson in Stay The Hell Away From STW Politics Threads When Drunk! 😀

No matter which way you look at it, that's not the best use of limited resources.

You're absolutely right, it's bloody stupid. I honestly don't want anyone to think that I am in any way defending the current leadership of the Labour Party or their deranged policies in any way, that was absolutely not my intention.

My intention was just a straight up drunken ad hominem attack, let's be absolutely clear about that. I was playing the man not the ball, but then the ball has been punctured and lying in a muddy puddle at the other end of the pitch since last June, so what the hell. Anyway, my post got reported and deleted so I'd best hang my head in shame and shut up. I'm done here, peace out.

😆

This hasn't been a politics thread for some time now. More like a schoolyard squabble where everyone has to choose sides.

Jezza's issued a statement condemning the American air strikes on Syria.

I wonder if he does it consciously, or whether it just happens automatically on a kind of default, auto-pilot setting?

He said in a statement: “Tuesday’s horrific chemical attack was a war crime which requires urgent independent UN investigation and those responsible must be held to account.

“But unilateral military action without legal authorisation or independent verification risks intensifying a multi-sided conflict that has already killed hundreds of thousands of people.”

Completely correct.

Corbyn said that....what bastard no wonder lefties like Binners hate him

Should he have published a dossier for you binbins 😉

Oldbloke. Not replacing the old classrooms sounds like typical poor planning by the Local authority/ school rather than, being connected to a central government initiative with funding for fsm provision.

South of the border central gov provided funding to expand catering facilities to meet the increased nr of covers at each school.

I've seen schools in very deprived areas built at the same time in very different conditions, whilst some have been on their knee others have been old but in vgc, the difference has been the quality of the senior leadership team

Only if you sex it up for me JY 😉

“But unilateral military action without legal authorisation or independent verification risks intensifying a multi-sided conflict that has already killed hundreds of thousands of people.”

[url= http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-39529264 ]Russia to boost Syrian air defences[/url]

T1000 - Member

funding for fsm provision.

I think we should be keeping religion out of schools tbh

I see Ed Millibean's positioning himself for a leadership bid.

[url= http://metro.co.uk/video/the-ed-mili-band-1444031/?ito=vjs-link ]Millibean promo[/url]

Funny! 😀

Jezza's issued a statement condemning the American air strikes on Syria.

I wonder if he does it consciously, or whether it just happens automatically on a kind of default, auto-pilot setting?

As opposed to the knee-jerk response of being happy that Somebody Did Something? I don't see blowing up a couple of sheds in the middle of a desert as being particularly likely to change anything for the better, do you?

IFS says free school meals help the deprived. It does not provide any evidence to suggest that the same benefit is delivered in a non-means tested approach of free school meals for everyone

What I thought I heard on the radio was that the IFS said
a) that the trials had been run in 2 "deprived" areas
b) they showed benefits even for kids not on free school meals in those areas
c) they did not know why that might be the case

As opposed to the knee-jerk response of being happy that Somebody Did Something? I don't see blowing up a couple of sheds in the middle of a desert as being particularly likely to change anything for the better, do you?

Well, given the fact that CW were used last week it is clear the alternative course of action didn't work very well, did it?

Thank goodness it's a binary situation and bombing one bad hombre won't help other bad hombres in the region. But at least there'll be no more chemical weapon attacks.

Well, given the fact that CW were used last week it is clear the alternative course of action didn't work very well, did it?

I'm sure that you, of all people, don't need the logical faults in that posting to be pointed out?

BBC1 just now...

Should you start off a Labour party election broadcast by saying that there has been "a Tory jobs bonanza" with more people in work than ever before ?

Should you start off a Labour party election broadcast by saying that there has been "a Tory jobs bonanza" with more people in work than ever before ?

Is this a trick question?

Nope they really did.

🙂

But then they got it slightly wrong when they described their plan to borrow £500,000,000,000 as "investment".

Right now there are a bunch of labour staffers manically running around trying to get Jezza away from his allotment and showered and dressed before any tv cameras find him 🙂

🙂

I suspect that they are trying to find him a dry pair of trousers as well.

He's in brum today apparently. I'll have a look down by the canals at lunch.

Found

BREAKINGCorbyn 'welcomes PM's decision'

Labour leader Jeremy Corbyn says: "I welcome the Prime Minister's decision to give the British people the chance to vote for a government that will put the interests of the majority first."

I think I just met jezza, well I gave a tramp a few quid so it might have been him.

He's got 8 weeks to come up with his resignation speech.

Do not underestimate Corbyn and friends. As mentioned on another thread. If you take out the noise from Brexit what have the Tories got to shout about? Things are not going so well.

Don't underestimate him? What planet are you living on?

The Tory press have pretty much ignored Jez up until this point, working on the principle 'give him enough rope'. They are now going to set about him in the most vicious manner imaginable.

Expect to hear a lot of stuff about Hamas, the IRA, communism, refusing to sing the national anthem, and all manner of things. His past, and every statement he's ever made, is the richest cache of weapons they could ever have dreamt of. In the offices of the Sun, the Mail, the Express, the Times and the Torygraph they are presently pissing their pants with glee at what they're about to unleash on labour

Jezza truly is all their birthdays and christmases come at once. Labour are already 21% behind the Tories in 2 separate polls over the last week

Its going to be a bloodbath!

Hey, maybe he'll stay on after the election. He has the mandate after all!

It will certainly be an interesting few weeks now the gloves are off.

As mentioned on another thread. If you take out the noise from Brexit what have the Tories got to shout about?

It's irrelevant. This is a single issue election. Jezza's just been on the telly (only took an hour and 20 mins to get him showered and suited) and he's already missing the goal, banging on about the NHS, housing, justice etc. It's admirable and he's right to raise these issues, but the only thing anyone cares about is brexit. Brexit supporters want to be reassured it's not going to be watered down, remainers want reassurance that there is a plan and it's not going to end in disaster, yet Corbyn has nothing to say about it. The tories and libdems will be talking about nothing else.

Nope I recon the NHS is the right message. He should not get onto Brexit.

That's the problem with being in favour of Brexit but too afraid to actually come out and say it.

double bubble

Nope I recon the NHS is the right message. He should not get onto Brexit.

You are Jeremy Corbyn's campaign manager and I claim my funny little hat 😆

Nope I recon the NHS is the right message. He should not get onto Brexit.

Yeh, but what about the 350 million a week?

He can't avoid it on the doorstep or anywhere else. NHS/Jobs/Immigration/Workers Rights/Defence - they are all Brexit issues.

Even if they weren't, do you think the electorate would not be interested in how a Labour Government might approach the most important political change for many decades? This is the main job of work for any incoming government.

He should not get onto Brexit.

So he shouldn't mention the biggest issue of the day and the main reason the election was called? People already think he's out of touch, if they don't have a clear and simple policy on brexit and aren't ready to aggressively promote/defend it then people will see that as them effectively boycotting the campaign. Their only chance is to decide whether they are for or against brexit, and then campaign aggressively for whatever their position is.

Funny tweet from editor of the Economist, on the announcement that Lynton Crosby has been retained to lead the election fight for the tories against Corbyn: "this is the point in the boxing match at which normally the referee steps in to save the loser" 😀

Do not underestimate Corbyn and friends.

You do understand that each time Jezza gets up to speak at PMQs it is the conservative MPs that cheer and laugh ?

There is a rule, so obvious it doesn't need writing down, that all conservatives keep their hands off Jezza. There hasn't been a single one that has attacked him, because he is the best recruiting sergeant the conservatives have got.
Well, they know that he won't be around for the next election, so their dossiers containing every moronic thing that he has ever said and done, every vicious group he has championed - they are getting dusted off.

[img] [/img]

Its going to be a giggle.

EDIT:

There will be a fair few labour people quietly happy at the upcoming election, not the MPs that are going to need to find another job perhaps, but many who will see that the annihilation of the hard left in the election is a chance to start afresh.

Ultimately, that rebuilding of the labour party will be good for the conservative party and the country - a government needs a semi-competent opposition to bring out its best and make it stop and think about what it is doing from time to time.

Funny tweet from editor of the Economist, on the announcement that Lynton Crosby has been retained to lead the election fight for the tories against Corbyn: "this is the point in the boxing match at which normally the referee steps in to save the loser"

Lovely to see they glee with which you announce that one of the most cynical arseholes in politics will be employed to use underhand tactics to harass and bully a fundamentally decent man. Just goes to show the Tory mindset really.

@binners

Nope I recon the NHS is the right message. He should not get onto Brexit.
You are Jeremy Corbyn's campaign manager and I claim my funny little hat

And you sir are Neil Coyle MP, this will be another official complaint against you.

Nope I recon the NHS is the right message.

Because it worked so well at the last two elections?

Lovely to see they glee with which you announce that one of the most cynical arseholes in politics will be employed to use underhand tactics to harass and bully a fundamentally decent man.

youtube is going to be hammered with the research they have been doing

Just goes to show the Tory mindset really

you have never experienced a Lib Dem byelection campaign have you, they make everyone else look like Mother Theresa

"They don't need to do that, they just need to publish Corbyn's and McDonnell's public statements from the last 30 years"

This.

[url= http://newsthump.com/2017/04/18/jeremy-corbyn-uncertain-which-way-to-vote-in-the-forthcoming-election/ ]http://newsthump.com/2017/04/18/jeremy-corbyn-uncertain-which-way-to-vote-in-the-forthcoming-election/[/url]

ninfan - Member
Nope I recon the NHS is the right message.
Because it worked so well at the last two elections?

tbf the tories have done a brilliant job bringing it to its knees now

grum - Member

Lovely to see they glee with which you announce that one of the most cynical arseholes in politics will be employed to use underhand tactics to harass and bully a fundamentally decent man. Just goes to show the Tory mindset really.

Has anyone popped in today to remind us how ugly Diane Abbott is?
Not had that for a few days....

So if Labour lose, will Corbyn's mandate mean he is morally obliged to remain as leader for the 2022 general election? If so he's committed to be in parliament 'till 2027 which, given his age, can't be a very pleasant prospect.

If he can lose and stand down in June then that at least gets him out of being in parliament 'till 2025 as he would have been with a 2020 election.

So this Election could be really good news for Corbyn - his way out.

Makes me laugh this idea that most people vote with high minded ideals and it will win through, not IME.

It's usually a combination of self interest and someone else getting a kick up the arse.

Labour better decide which self interests they are going to champion and who's getting the kick up the arse.

@kimbers, damn that increased spending on the NHS

[img] [/img]

Newsnight tonight wouldn't have made good watching for Labour supporters. Abbott and Thornbury on the BBC today talking up the campaign shows the real problem Labour face.

C'mon Jamby, dusting off that old nominal-value spending graph? There's been quite a bit of inflation in the UK over the years, did you forget?

You're better than that.

My guess, and it is a guess, maybe 20% are very pro Brexit similar anti. There is a big group who really don't care much either way. That is the group who matter, they are the ones who will look at their wallets and will kick off if they get poorer. For labour they are the ones where they have a chance to take a non Brexit message.