Jeremy Corbyn

, I imagine Sky would have said this as well and Jamby got the tense wrong

How can that possibly be the case?

So yes, we should work to fix it but if you want to hold people to account you have to assume we're all collectively responsible.

how is deciding that you don't like someone because they don't conform to your idea of what a 'bloke' should be any different to deciding that you don't like someone because they're, for instance, gay?

I will never forget the second person who managed me sitting me in a room and saying to be quite bluntly 'I think professionally you're really good but I personally just cannot stand you'.

Yes men can be biased against men for various reasons but you still get opportunities , due to having a penis, that a woman wont get. I am in no way defending what happened to you as described in the new version - EDIT i am in no way saying you changed your story you just gave more context to be VERY clear here.

FWIW i am also that sort of man but I am not career driven and work mainly with women I forget when i last had a male boss 25 years ago perhaps?? Not really an issue in my workplace as its an inclusive PC free for all - again no offence meant.

How can that possibly be the case?

binners - Member

A couple of us are off to a Momentum meeting in a couple of weeks as theres one nearby.

Well you are going to be in for a shock.

What? Literally? With a cattle prod?

Care to elaborate comrade? Why am I in for a shock?

And have about as much chance of winning a general election

I think a Corbyn led labour could win a general election..
But I also think that winning the next election shouldn't necessarily be the immediate goal..

That's like coming steaming out in a game of chess and just taking every piece that you can get your hands on, without caring if you're putting yourself in danger and losing a piece in return with each move..

I think getting a decent labour party together with some serious ambition should be the aim..
So what if the toffs win another election?

I'd much prefer to have a real choice when I vote, rather than toffs or toff lite and eternal bickering about petty minutae

FWIW i am also that sort of man but I am not career driven and work mainly with women I forget when i last had a male boss 25 years ago perhaps?? Not really an issue in my workplace as its an inclusive PC free for all - again no offence meant.

Honestly none taken. You and I are cut from the same cloth I think we are just perhaps dyed a different colour.

Racist 😉

eternal bickering about petty minutae

Party rules, sub-section 3, para 4.5 - meanwhile in the oft-quoted "real" world people are coming to come to terms with the reality of life post brexit

still when pressed by Evan Davies on his current priorities, Jezaa was able to assure doubters that the people of Burnley really do have Cuba high on their lists of concerns

toffs or toff lite

Phew, for a moment, I thought you said pleb or prole- and there would have been hell to play in that case

meanwhile in the oft-quoted "real" world people are coming to come to terms with the reality of life post brexit

Exactly.. I don't really want to see 'oooh, that might very nearly have been racist or sexist or mean if you squint.. why not argue about it forever while ignoring the real issues' type headlines in the press ever again

there would have been hell to play in that case

errr... I think we're technically obliged to 'bully' the kids that have nicked all the biscuits for themselves

Ah, the Wallasay defence!!

Actually bullying does seem to be something that the cuckoos excel at. So apt choice of words....

waffle and pish

The odeous fat kids have still got more than their fair share of the biscuits no matter how much you or they mewl and fret about giving them back..

Until they share them out fairly like they were told to by the teacher, I'm going to make them feel uncomfortable

[img] [/img]

[i][b]"he intended to ring my father to discuss it with him and ask him to speak to me about it"[/i][/b]

That has got to be one of the funniest news related stories I've read in quite a while.

It's not only the ridiculous absurdity of "[i]I'm telling your dad[/i]" being offered as an example of "bullying", but the accuser doesn't even provide any evidence that Corbyn intended to phone his dad - we just have to take his word for it. And then the accuser fully admits that no phone call was ever made !

What a fantastic example of bullying..........no wonder the media are running with the story !

As David Graeber professor at the LSE says in his article about the political/establishment elite :

[i][b]"The real concern is not any justified fear among the Labour establishment of bullying and intimidation – the idea that the weak would bully the strong is absurd. It is that they fear being made truly accountable to those they represent".[/i][/b]

Here's the full article :

[url= https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2016/jul/05/political-establishment-momentum-jeremy-corbyn ]The elites hate Momentum and the Corbynites - and I’ll tell you why [/url]

No word on why I'm in for a shock then Ernest?

Give us a clue? Go on....

GOurmet pies is my guess

binners - Member

What? Literally? With a cattle prod?

Care to elaborate comrade? Why am I in for a shock?

You were right first time - I meant literally. Every Momentum meeting has a cattle prod.

No word on why I'm in for a shock then Ernest?

He's not paying attention to the thread, remember.

Yunki how old are you? Not an ageist question just try to understand by what mechanism (political or barricades) you have witnessed that will allow us to wrestle wealth from the "old money" if you are assuming you can motivate sufficient people to support a truly left wing cause that would introduce some blanket wealth distribution tax then it might suddenly dawn on you that the majority of this country is actually quite well off- old school left wing politicsr requires a very unhappy majority - the Brexit vote said 48% were in the well off camp and out of the other 52% at least half are well off 1950s Tory based so you my friend haven't got a chance - oh and the reason for asking the question is I was born in 1963 so have worked and lived through each flavour of political life - and when Corbyn (who is an academic left winger and will never be anything else) can **** off as everytime he mentions Orgreave or some other element of the miners strike he drives another retired miner in the north of england into the arms of UKIP - people need work security and stability and left/right political slogans are worthless - you need to go and read the Audit of War by Corelli Barnett and then you may understand the real position of this country and why we are in the shite

I'm a decade younger than you and an anarchist by heart and I will shout at tories and the people that vote for them until the day I die as there is clearly absolutely nothing more constructive to do when discussing politics

I just want a little renumeration.

Obviously we can't get money back from the elite (see my post on the previous page) but it would be nice to see less bias against the working class in modern government

He's not paying attention to the thread, remember.

Well you obviously don't remember Flashheart. Let me remind you :

Ernie_lynch - Member

I am not following this thread in any detail

Posted 19 hours ago #

Although you do seem to remember that when I asked you [i]" Got anything constructive to say ?"[/i] you were surprisingly honest and answered :

CaptainFlashheart - Member

No. Thanks for asking, though.

Posted 13 hours ago

Sticking to your guns and not saying anything constructive eh ? Good for you.

Oh and just for the record I have stood on the barricades (picket lines) in the miners strike so i seriously question anyone who chucks up left wing text book bollocks... and as the NUM will tell you those with the power (Tory/Police/Media) broke the strongest (in every sense of the word - you ask the Met coppers how pleasant it was at the sharp end) working class community this country ever had and if you think a bunch of placard waving lefty academics are going to worry the real power in this country dream on boy - you lot are not even in the game

wow - the attention meter is rising. Anything to do with the temperature?

I just want a little renumeration.

There is an easy answer to that one....

Anyway what good does shouting at people do?

if you think a bunch of placard waving lefty academics are going to worry the real power in this country dream on boy - you lot are not even in the game

no but their mates are in the nest - cuckoo

School me then old timer.. tell me how it is

what should I be doing to worry the real power?

There is an easy answer to that one....

Remuneration.

What do I win?

Stop shouting and do something positive for you, your family some poor sods who needs help - my soloution was to create a business that has 7 jobs all paying way above the average income for 35 hours a week and I will continue to do that in spite of the **** wits that want to turn this country into some left or right wing nirvana

ok

Wars are not won with one big victory it's always tactical wins that change stuff long term - the people in power are heartless, greedy self serving ****s by running a business that does not aspire to a multi million exit Strategy or demand 50 hour weeks I create a self supporting family unit - we all need to do more of this - create local sensible wealth...

surely though... a big vote for a fairer society will push the politicians to try to win votes by being fairer?

Binners, there's a more pressing element to your nightmare scenario. Boundary revision.

In order to retain their urban rotten boroughs, labour and lib dems have fought tooth and nail in both commons and HOL to block boundary revision. However, the potential that it creates to force reselection and replace the moderate sitting MPs with momentum placemen could be too much temptation for Corbyn, as such he may prevent labour peers from collaborating with lib dems to block it

And we know what boundary revision will only make it more impossible for labour to win an election

yI'm a decade younger than you and an anarchist by heart

I just want a little renumeration.

Anarchist -> Remuneration to me implies violent theft. Now I am not suggesting its what you meant but its how I would interpret it. When I see and hear an agressive Momentum type activist I am 100% of the view that they wish to "redistribute" my hard earned money and assets to themselves. Under Blair I understood the Labour party was focused on growing the economy for the benefit of all with a reasonable amount taken in taxation to fund our welfare state.

As for wealth distribution to the "working class" what I would say is increasingly wealth is being earnt and created via intellectually orientated work. For "manual" work there is an almost unlimited and growing supply of very cheap labour. In such calculations people should also consider the value of such things as security, rule of law and health and welfare provision. The UK remains is one of the very best places in the world to live and work.

I found this study by the LSE interesting.

[img] [/img]

Note that the only newspapers more neutral in their attitude towards Corbyn than the Daily Mail are the Independent, the Daily Mirror, and the Guardian.

The Daily Mail has been significantly more neutral in their attitude towards Corbyn than the Daily Telegraph. Personally I'm not surprised but some Daily Mail haters might be.

Anarchist -> Remuneration to me implies violent theft

Don't put ideas in my head!!

I found this study by the LSE interesting.

[i]The Daily Mail has been significantly more neutral in their attitude towards Corbyn than the Daily Telegraph. Personally I'm not surprised but some Daily Mail haters might be.[/i]

I would suggest that the Mail decided quite quickly that Corbyn was no real threat to the Country and as such are ambivalent about him hanging around for a while.

I would suggest that the Mail decided quite quickly that Corbyn was no real threat to the Country and as such are ambivalent about him hanging around for a while.

So what does the Daily Telegraph know that the Daily Mail doesn't know ?

Remuneration.

What do I win?

So what does the Daily Telegraph know that the Daily Mail doesn't know ?

Difficult to say, other than they are morally offended by his politics and want to say so!

You don't think the Daily Telegraph agrees with David Cameron ?

[img] [/img]

The truth is that the Daily Telegraph, a newspaper which I once had a lot of respect for, is now the gutter of journalism along with Sun, and is incapable of respecting its readership with neutral reporting.

In contrast the Daily Mail hasn't quite stooped so low in the gutter as the Daily Telegraph.

I know it's fashionable to hate the Daily Mail because of their reliance on homophobic racist bigots such as Richard Littlejohn to provide "clickbait" for them, but is you look beyond that they are not quite as bad as some morally superior Guardian readers like to portray them.

Who cares what Cameron thinks? Theres a new Sheriff in town.

Some good 'what if' writing here to make a few of you weep:

https://medium.com/@botherer/how-jeremy-corbyn-could-have-saved-the-labour-party-6cfa1bb139ec#.8snaoxnl1

oldmanmtb - Member
... my soloution was to create a business that has 7 jobs all paying way above the average income for 35 hours a week

A genuine good for you from me.

I really hope future Labour Party policy targets support to small businesses.

I was quite impressed with JC on Newsnight. I liked what he said about Burnley (ie stop patronising people from Burnley) I liked what he said about immigration (its good for the country but we need protections)

Liz Kendall was 'orrible on This Week:
PRESENTER "So what was your moment of the year?"

PORTILLO "Brexit of course, the biggest moment of the entire time I have been doing this show"

KENDALL "Yes Brexit er but also Corbyn bullying everyone" FFS!

SNP chappie put her in her place- called out her lies!

Yunki my lifetime had been littered with votes asking for a fairer world (including the Brexit vote) the trouble is human nature tends to fall in favour of greed and self preservation regardless of politics - even back in the day in trade union internal politics it was all about control and preserving trades incomes and position and the more strife and recession you subject humans to the more they start to look after number 1 - not saying this is my approach but I am still angry (deeply angry) about the stupidity of the old working class for voting to leave the one thing that actually affords them a little protection- give me some time and I will calm down then try and create a new job each year on my business going forward but it takes a big *ing heart to keep going - most people in my personal position would sell the house business and cash pensions and but a cheap house in the south of France and forget this island of idiots - but I am a stubborn * and will continue let's hope there are plenty like me

He does not speak about Jews the way you speak about Muslims though does he.

He turns a deliberate blind eye to the abuse even promoting one of those involved in the OULB anti-semitism. I fully anticipate the next Labour leader will seek to distance himself from this disgraceful behaviour.

On the 40,000 and "tense" it seems I am ahead of the news then 🙂

As Owen Smith has said Labour stand on the precipice, electoral obscurity beckons if they make the wrong choice. The "kids" in momentum either really don't get it or they just don't care. Hijack the Labour Party rather than build something themselves.

Very amusing assertion from Len McCluskey in the Guardian today - apparently it is MI5 agent provocateurs who are fomenting violence and abuse from within Momentum. Maybe they are also doing all the anti-semitism stuff as well.

The "kids" in momentum

So now the youthful makeup of Momentum is being criticised.......brilliant !

Actually my experience of Momentum meetings is that young people make up a significant but fairly small minority.

This is particularly encouraging as it is widely recognised that young people today feel disconnected with politics. Political meetings in recent times tend to be overwhelmingly packed with middle-aged/old people, I am sure this is as much true of the Conservative Party as it is of other parties.

And it precisely this youthful grassroots involvement by people who would otherwise be disengaged from politics which is threatening the status quo and which frightens the political elite so much.

The situation is particularly critical for the establishment/elite as they of course recognise the now very widespread public dissatisfaction with the political classes, and how little creditably they all have in the eyes of the electorate.

They really do fear being truly accountable to those they represent.

Never has the threat been greater and never has maintaining the status quo been more difficult.

Furthermore I have now been convinced, only in the last week actually, that they are doomed to failure. I had previously believed that if Corbyn fails to win the leadership all would be lost - the Blairites/New Labour/right-wingers/careerists would consolidate their power and guarantee that never again would they allow power to slip from their hands.

Not any more.

The Labour Party has changed. With over half a million members it now more than twice a large as it was last year. The 300,000 who have joined haven't joined so that the establishment/elite can carry on their old ways without interference. They have joined to have their say, to hold accountable those who purport to represent them but consider politics to be their own personal fiefdom.

I am reminded of the attempted Soviet coup of 1991 when the old guard just didn't get just how much things had changed - they were doomed to failure.

FWIW & IMO last 20k of TdF stage is going to be an epic - certainly more interesting than Corbyn / Labour leadership challenge for the next hour