Jeremy Corbyn

The trouble with Jezza's politics, such as they are, and thus Labour policy, is that it also cannot be so easily labelled. I've had a think, and the most accurate one I can find is 'whatever pops into my head at any given moment', or 'stuff that's, like, totally, like, not fair 'n stuff... you know?'

[url= https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2017/mar/02/labour-brexit-fire-party-burning-corbyn-leavers ]As for socialism...?[/url]

Flexible?
Gesture politics?

J McD's publishing tax returns idea certainly falls into the second

As for socialism...?

Don't disagree with any of that. I've said here a few times that Corbyn and JMcD have made a catastrophic strategic mistake in backing brexit. They have a bizarre belief that the reactionary idiots up here in the north who voted to cut of their nose to spite there face will suddenly come flocking back to labour if they support brexit. Theresa May and the tories own brexit. Anyone who supports it is going to vote for them now, irregardless of whatever labour do.

Indeed, their time would be better spent wooing disillusioned Tory remainers of which I'm sure there are plenty. That would of course mean moving back to the centre. Corbyn and McDonnell ain't going to be doing that any time soon.

But yet again its an example of Corbyns personal gut stance (anti EU) taking precedent over party policy (very pro EU), and his stubborn refusal to countenance any other opinion, or listen to anyone else.

Its utter madness. Like you said, all those people who voted leave are never going to vote Labour anyway. In the meantime the 70% of labour voters who voted remain feel absolutely deserted and betrayed by the present 'leadership' who's stance in no way reflects their own (sound familiar?).

As the most right wing Tory government uses Brexit as a once-in-a-millennia opportunity to jettison workers rights (and god knows what else!), and turn us into a turbocharged, uber-capitlist, neoliberal wet-dream, subservient to America, the labour party will never be forgiven for its betrayal/utter stupidity in waving it through, totally unopposed

Oh... the real fight starts now! apparently

You couldn't make it up. Its tragedy, played out as farce

[b]Determination to carry on regardless of how bad it gets.[/b] Lets call that a (Mountain) Mayhem Quality. Conveniently run at Gatcombe for all his friends in the Lords

The Tories own Brexshit is a convenient narrative - false but enduring and will probably do them in, in the end

Labour are on a ST loser with the issue even if a decent leader might be emerging out of the carnage. They caught on immigration and on respecting the vote. Flaccid opposition.

But the Tories are more split over Brexshit than anyone. Lets not forget it was a government who campaigned against it, but lost. Plus the old grandees are never shy at coming out of the woodwork to support an issue that nailed them.

The Tories are both Gov and Oppo at the same time!

As the most right wing Tory government uses Brexit as a once-in-a-millennia opportunity to jettison workers rights (and god knows what else!), and turn us into a turbocharged, uber-capitlist, neoliberal wet-dream, subservient to America, the labour party will never be forgiven for its betrayal/utter stupidity in waving it through, totally unopposed

....

[b]You couldn't make it up. [/b]Its tragedy, played out as farce

I dont know, that wasnt a bad effort binns! 🙂

Fake News from Andrew Neill on This Week 🙂

[i]the labour party will never be forgiven for its betrayal/utter stupidity in waving it through, totally unopposed[/i]

It is this act that seals it for me that JC should not be where he is. If he was someone who believed in equality, community, workers rights etc he would be going down fighting on this one and be opposed to Brexit all the way.

Yes ignoring the result of a democratic process is a guaranteed winner!

As stated: 70% of labour voters, voted remain. Isn't that who he's meant to be representing?

And there must be shedloads of less unhinged former Tory voters who are far from happy at the direction this whole car crash is headed in

But **** 'em! Its unopposed support for Brexit and the position of UKIP, the Tories and all the people who'd never vote for you in a million years instead.

Like I've said all along... politically clueless! He wouldn't know a vote-winning policy if it painted itself purple, danced up and down naked in front of him, then hoofed him in the slats

There are 48% of the voting public (more now, I'd imagine) who didn't want any of this, who's votes are going begging as they have no political representation whatsoever. All while Jeremy gives the thumbs up to the right wing of the Tory party, and says "you crack on.... let us know when you're done...... we'll be having a meeting about building a statue honouring our brothers in Nicaragua, as a sign of our solidarity with their struggle "

[i]Yes ignoring the result of a democratic process is a guaranteed winner! [/i]

The (existing) democratic process that enabled Brexit to win was based on less than half the country saying YES to Brexit (due to protest votes e.g.defaced voting papers).

Your a statistician THM. Less than half. Under 50%. So that means more than 50% could well have been opposed.

For such a big decision I say that's pretty weak numbers to be doggedly sticking by the whole 'it's a democracy' argument if you're truly opposed to it. I don't think being afraid to stick his neck out is one of JC's traits.

I know, crap isnt it - and we (remainers) did a really crap job at selling a very simple story. So we are all to blame.

But let's turn you argument on its head - even though this should be in the EU thread - how democratic would it be for the leader of HM Oppostion to simply ignore the result of the vote? Its easy for the LDs because they are now relegated back to a largely irrelevant protest party. We are talking about the Opposition standing up and saying - "FU, we know better, so we are going to ignore you". Do you think that would save the old boy?

[i]be for the leader of HM Oppostion to simply ignore the result of the vote? [/i]

Ignore what? That less than half of the voting community voted YES. What's so difficult to understand?

It's why the Lords have just said NO to triggering Brexit. They understand it even if you don't.

We are talking about the Opposition standing up and saying - "FU, we know better, so we are going to ignore you"

or the alt facts version.... 'we're going to represent the views of the large majority of our supporters - you know.... the people who actually voted for us, who don't want to leave'. The Tories have no issue with exclusively representing the interests of its voters, to the exclusion of everyone else. Why be so timid?

Lets be honest..... at this point in proceedings WTF has he got to lose? His polling is absolutely catastrophic, and the the press are going to slaughter him whatever he does! He can't possibly be any worse off if he actually grew a pair and stated that a political party was actually going to represent the interests of 48% the population, and actually do what the opposition is meant to do.... oppose!

i can't be the only person wishing that somebody ****ing would!!!!

Ignore what? That less than half of the voting community voted YES. What's so difficult to understand?

What part of democracy don't you understand ? If you don't vote you don't have a say.

But let's turn you argument on its head - even though this should be in the EU thread - how democratic would it be for the leader of HM Oppostion to simply ignore the result of the vote? Its easy for the LDs because they are now relegated back to a largely irrelevant protest party. We are talking about the Opposition standing up and saying - "FU, we know better, so we are going to ignore you". Do you think that would save the old boy?

If you took that argument to its logical conclusion, the election of a Tory government in 2016 should herald five years of zero opposition whatsoever. After all, that's the democratic outcome, how dare Labour fly in the face of it?

I take the view that the vote was close enough that it could have been ignored without much political fallout. Especially since most of the leading Leave campaign members didn't actually want leave to win.

As it happens Corbyn's, handling of the Brexit is something he's got right IMHO. His wing of he party want out. He's helping Brexit to happen without making it overly obvious.

The (existing) democratic process that enabled Brexit to win was based on less than half the country saying YES to Brexit (due to protest votes e.g.defaced voting papers).

And if you include the votes of all the dogs and cats in the country, who would have, to a quadraped, voted remain, then Brexit would never have happened.

Better not count the votes of the hamsters and gerbils though, they might have been leafers.

@cranberry...I love the way you leavers hate it when it's pointed out that you didn't win by a proper majority. You can't say anything so just resort to spouting twaddle.. 😀

If a Referendum called by 90pc for nuking France, the vote would be ignored.

A vote to leave the EU can also be ignored.

Maybe he agrees with the Government? Odd I know and like T May he was at best a reluctant remainer.

EVB - you might want to check what the HoL voted on.

@cranberry...I love the way you leavers hate it when it's pointed out that you didn't win by a proper majority. You can't say anything so just resort to spouting twaddle.

Whats there for the leavers to hate. Their side got more votes than our side. They won, we lost. To pretend that tit has no legitimacy is resorting to twaddle but i guess reflects how embarrassed we are at missing a slam dunk!!

We really screwed it up, they didnt. Not hard to see who's to blame even if it is too late.

His wing of he party want out. He's helping Brexit to happen without making it overly obvious.

Not too obvious? Apart from the bit where he went AWOL for the whole EU referendum campaign, called for article 50 to be triggered immediately, on the morning of the result, and pretty much everything he's done since?

How much more obvious would you like it to be?

He's not a reluctant remainer. Alan Johnson was very close to the Labour Remain campaign and he's pretty clear Corbyn is a leaver along with his oppos. Not a surprise, they're Bennite.

"Not too obvious? Apart from the bit where he went AWOL for the whole EU referendum campaign, called ffor article 50 to be triggered immediately, on the morning of the result, and pretty much everything he's done since?
How much more obvious would you like it to be?"

He's convinced THM.

Ok - so lets agree he is more of a leaver. What would you expect him to do now. He is a man who follows his convictions to the end isnt he?

"OK - so lets agree he is more of a leaver. What would you expect him to do now. He is a man who follows his convictions to the end isnt he?"

I'd expect him to do what he's doing. Full steam towards Brexit whilst whining a bit.

@thm...Can you point out where I said it wasn't a legimitate vote? Just because there's a popular phrase trying to legitimise making up facts ,doesn't mean you have to do it too. 🙄

No why, whats that got to do with the price of milk?

and we (remainers) did a really crap job at selling a very simple story. So we are all to blame.

Don't agree. Remain were telling people what would happen but they didn't want to know (helped by the largely leave media) as the anti-immigration angle was what appealed to a lot of people. You could hardly go for an anti-immigration stance when selling remain could you!

Obviously not.

But still doesnt take away the fact that our arguments lost - the anti-immigration issues was more powerful (despite being BS)

To his credit, Jezza is one of the few politicians who stands up for immigration although with the odd caveats to soothe the xenophobes within Lab

"You could hardly go for an anti-immigration stance when selling remain could you!"

Why not? Just say that *if* EU immigration slows, non-EU immigration will have to raise to meet the shortfall.

...and I'm not sure that Brexit is really going to slow EU immigration.

EU Immigration is the one thing absolutely guaranteed to be unaffected. The Tory parties financial backers demand a constant supply of cheap labour to keep wage costs down. And what they want, they get

The racist idiots who voted for this nonsense are about to realise how much they've been conned. Andrew Rawnsley wrote an interesting article in the Observer a few weeks ago saying a number of Tory MPs are seriously thinking that there will be riots on the streets when people belatedly realise that they'll get more of the stuff they voted against, and a lot less of what they'd previously taken for granted. Post Brexit

Perhaps that's what Jezza is doing? Playing the long game and letting them usher in the long awaited socialist revolution?

the labour party will never be forgiven for its betrayal/utter stupidity in waving it through, totally unopposed

Corbyn has been a lifelong Leaver - he the leader and he is driving the policy. As I have said on the other thread it's my firm belief the result will look increasingly good as the EU spirals downwards as we approach the 2020 GE.

Perhaps that's what Jezza is doing?

Jezza is doing what he's always done, which is to take the uncompromising moral view, which is that the EU is a neo-liberal capitalist club and as such we shouldn't be any part of it. He has a point, but the alternative is much worse.

Which the PLP and anyone with anything between their ears can see.

Be careful what you wish for. I don't know what he thinks this is going to usher in, but I know for sure it's going to improve anything for the working class he's meant to represent

Maybe it looks different at a Momentum meeting in Islington

Never mind though. Like TOTAL bragging rights in the common room. Like, totes **** the Blairites, yeah!!! BOOM! Oh........

which is to take the uncompromising moral view,

Ho hum ...

The chairman of the Community Security Trust (organisation which tracks anti-Semitic incidents) said in front of the new Met Police Chief and Tom Watson the following

"I don’t doubt that the Labour leader opposes anti-Semitism when it comes from Nazis but when it comes dressed up as anti-Zionism he is more likely to ask if he can join in. This is far more subversive than the danger posed by Nazis.”

My thoughts entirely.

My thoughts entirely.

I'm not sure I'd dignify the random firing of neurons with the term "thoughts".

Zionist organisation in conflating anti-Zionism and anti-Semitism shocker.

Community Security Trust - not even the Jewish Chronicle trusts (see what I did there?) them:

https://www.thejc.com/comment/columnists/our-unrepresentative-security-1.68486

When I did my tax return, it wasn't out by £40k.

I'd remember if I had another income that paid me £40k. I think any right minded person would. Even more so if they had an office of support staff and were very much in the public eye.

Imagine if they'd got last year's wrong as well! That wouldn't be possible, shirley!

My thoughts entirely.

Jesus. So now Jeremy Corbyn and his fellow socialists are worse than Hitler. 367 pages and nearly 13000 posts before the invoking of Godwin's law. Must be a record surely?

So CFH, I assume you enjoyed the

Soft Coup - JMcD...
Publish tax returns - JMcD on Marr (along with happy to take advice from Mandy and BLiar)...
Poor old Jezza's return back under scrutiny...

,,, Pattern!!!

With friends like John and Di, who needs enemies......

Meanwhile, Rebecca Long-Bailey is doing an AWFUL lot of public appearances, and lots of press releases. Especially for someone who's a bit of a nobody, really.

Almost as if she's lining up for something......

Every time I've heard her speak, however, she's been monumentally awful.

BBC reporting the tax return as "cock-up rather than conspiracy"

🙂

I guess conspiracy would require a bit more talent and attention to detail.

EDIT:

I can live with Rebecca being the great hope for the future of the labour party.

She was terrible again on Peston earlier - have man flu so watched a lot of TV and slept today - if it's between "Becky" and Angela Rayner then Labour are in depp, deep trouble.

Jess Phillips could be a giggle though - and Brummies are the salt of the earth 😉

What would Lady Bracknell say?

BBC reporting the tax return as "cock-up rather than conspiracy"

1 - Make silly gesture politics statement about publishing tax returns
2 - Await some serious scrutiny of the above
3 - Forget that you cocked up last time you tried this
4 - Try again anyway
5 - Cock up. AGAIN

Yeah, just a cock up. Surely there's someone in his cabal of overpaid bag carriers who could have said, "Er, Supreme Leader*, can I just....."

*[url= http://blogs.spectator.co.uk/2017/02/revealed-jeremy-corbyn-seumas-milnes-nicknames/ ]Source[/url]

BBC reporting the tax return as "cock-up rather than conspiracy"

🙂 The gift that just keeps on giving

Same as last year then when he forgot his pensions, now this year he forgets £40k of income.

It will be ok as John McD will be along shortly to tell us about the media conspiracy and a soft (aka flaccid ?) coup. Oh and Shami says he's a nice man.

Zionist organisation

Lifer Zionism means a belief that the Jewish people have the right to self-determination, ie a state. This list of organisations that are Zionist thus starts with the United Nations and it's forerunner the League of Nations who created the first and only Jewish State.

To be fair, Boris thought £250K was chicken feed so this doesn't really matter.

CFH Rebecca has improve massively from when she was first appointed. I appreciate that may be hard to believe. Labour have no choice but to rotate the same faces as there are so few willing to serve in a front line role

But they are as lightweight as rice paper. And it's obvious.

[quote=jambalaya ]As I have said on the other thread it's my firm belief the result will look increasingly good as the EU spirals downwards as we approach the 2020 GE.

Remind me when you first predicted the demise of the EU within 3 years?

The gift that just keeps on giving

Same as last year then when he forgot his pensions, now this year he forgets £40k of income.

It will be ok as John McD will be along shortly to tell us about the media conspiracy and a soft (aka flaccid ?) coup. Oh and Shami says he's a nice man.

What's 40k between [s]friends[/s] comrades though. Who hasn't forgotten about such a sum when filing one's tax return.

[img] [/img]

Funny innit. We all complain about career politicians, but then we get Trump and Corbyn to show us amateurs are, if anything, worse.

Slightly odd compariosn. Apart from being a TU rep, Jezza has essentlaiiy been a career politician all his working life.

"Apart from being a TU rep, Jezza has essentlaiiy been a career politician all his working life."

I take your point, but Corbyn's never been trusted with a ministerial job. I think that makes him an amateur feeling his way. But yeah, he's been a paid MP forever.

Meanwhile, Rebecca Long-Bailey is doing an AWFUL lot of public appearances, and lots of press releases. Especially for someone who's a bit of a nobody, really.

The definitive comment on her 'abilities' was voiced by Mrs Binners while watching her 'performance' on Question Time the other week...

"Who the **** is this muppet?!"

indeed. I suspect that they're the only two who are naive/stupid enough not to realise that being seen as a loyal Corbynite, with the electoral day of reckoning on the horizon, probably isn't the smartest move. The less clueless people are keeping silent and not touching the front bench with the proverbial barge pole

Slightly odd compariosn. Apart from being a TU rep, Jezza has essentlaiiy been a career politician all his working life.

Quite an achievement to spend 30 odd years doing one job, while watching people who were masters of the art, on both sides of the house, and yet still managing to be this totally inept and clueless at it.

indeed. I suspect that they're the only two who are naive/stupid enough not to realise that being seen as a loyal Corbynite, with the electoral day of reckoning on the horizon, probably isn't the smartest move.

Think of it as an IQ test:

Do you want to be, very publicly, a member of this confederacy of dunces ?

Yes/no ( please mark in black pen for no, green crayon for yes )

[i]What's 40k between friends comrades though. Who hasn't forgotten about such a sum when filing one's tax return. [/I]

Pretty much all PAYE, so it was on there - just not where we expected it.

But something did occur to me, because he's past retirement age he doesn't pay NI, so his net pay is higher then someone of working age.

LOL. So he earns 100k+, claims state pension and makes no NI contributions. At the same time he wants the rest of us to pay more into the system.

When the left wants "everyone to pay more tax":

It means everyone but them.

"Who the **** is this muppet?!"

It means everyone but them

Worth opening the thread for these two gems 🙂

@aracer there is only so long the eurozone / EU can keep kicking the can down the road / into the long grass. At least moremof the press (Guardain included) has started to discuss the issue. Its a real one for all of us, we need to make sure as individuals we have rainy day money was we are going to need it.

Hang on - reading this, it sounds like you actually believe he forgot 40k of income?
You do realise it's nonsense don't you?

"Hang on - reading this, it sounds like you actually believe he forgot 40k of income?
You do realise it's nonsense don't you?"

Given he's in a 24/7 job, and given the importance of getting his tax return exactly right yeah, forgot seems the only plausible explanation. Or at least forgot to pass the right paperwork to the company doing it.

You do realise it's nonsense don't you?

I doubt they're interested in that they're back in Jeremy Corbyn soggy biscuit mode 🙂

ffs outofbreath.
At least do a basic fact check before spouting.
It's all on his tax return, just not in the place where the media decided it should be.
And it was very very stupid for them to think it should be 40k given that the tax year and the leadership election don't match.

It was 27k and it's all on his tax return in black and white. Just completely made up bollocks as usual.

"ffs outofbreath.
At least do a basic fact check before spouting.
It's all on his tax return, just not in the place where the media decided it should be.
And it was very very stupid for them to think it should be 40k given that the tax year and the leadership election don't match.
It was 27k and it's all on his tax return in black and white. Just completely made up bollocks as usual."

Looked to me like you were accusing him of deliberately leaving 40k off his return.

That seemed implausible.

If you're saying all his income was there, then yeah, that seems more likely. A lot of effort will have gone onto getting this right, there's no way anything would get deliberately left off.

Alex it wasn't in the place where your work income is supposed to be. When the story first broke and we commented no one in the Labour office could answer the question "where is his leader's pay / has he forgotten it" - it seems perfectly legit to assume a screw up given last year's pension debacle.

Amateur Hour.

As for everyone earling over a £1m a year publishing their return its like a Robbers Charter - let's flag up who has the loot and is worth a break-in

As for everyone earling over a £1m a year publishing their return its like a Robbers Charter - let's flag up who has the loot and is worth a break-in

yeah itd never work....

https://www.theguardian.com/money/blog/2016/apr/11/when-it-comes-to-tax-transparency-norway-leads-the-field

When the story first broke

And then you try and justify it by saying "when the story first broke", or "no one in the Labour office", etc. It's a non-story spun to show incompetence when in fact there was none.

Focus on why the media have leapt on this instead of the incredible lack of transparency elsewhere.

This is just the biggest crock of bollocks ever - just maddening. We should be talking about policies ... But instead, you've fallen completely for a trumped-up piece of nonsense that someone leapt on without actually looking a tiny tiny bit deeper (or maybe they did but thought there was a story in it anyway by playing dumb). And then you try and justify it by saying "when the story first broke", or "no one in the Labour office", etc. It's a non-story spun to show incompetence when in fact there was none. Focus on why the media have leapt on this instead of the incredible lack of transparency elsewhere.

Indeed. Corbyn's will be one of the simpler tax returns. Imagine now much press titillation there will be over some of the others and how much more distracting media attention there will be over them.

It's a needless gimmick and distraction. Mind you, you've made several posts about it today and zero on Labour Policy, so perhaps you're less interested in policy than you think.

Alex it wasn't the Tories who created the distraction was it ? Another own goal from Corbyn's team whilst attempting to embarrass Phillip Hamond. At the very least they should have briefed the Press Office.

So Corbyn promised to publish his tax return, did so, and a load of the usual suspects cry "cock up". It's shown that there wasn't a cock up and the "financial experts" don't have the decency to admit that they got it wrong. Quelle surprise.

Policy? Can you name me any? Actual costed policies, with any detail at all?

There aren't any. That's the point. It's a vacuum. Just vague, lefty, 6th form, get-my-guitar, mood music, or maybe forming yet another committee to look into the issue

Apparently even the most loyal Corbynites (are there any left other than John and Dianne?) are totally exasperated about the endless meetings, to discuss the agenda for further meetings, where they chunter on and on for days on end, without actually reaching any decisions or conclusions about anything. No rush eh Jeremy? Take your time eh mate? Nothing of much significance going on at the moment

Oh.... there's the 3 line whip about voting through the Tory's Brexit bill for them. The only issue he's ever been decisive on. Cheers for that one Jeremy. Other than that....?

Anyone? Bueller....? Bueller....? Bueller... ?