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It really doesn't matter what I think, does it? Or what you think. The Rather large Jewish population of north Manchester have reached their own conclusion, and they think he's anti-Semitic. So much so that the local Labour Party have already concluded that their previously safe seat is as good as gone
There's a pattern emerging, isn't there....
yes right wing lies/alt truths being bought by the gullible public
Of course they are.
Nothing is Jezzas fault, is it?
He's doing a great job.
It's all the bastard right wing media
Meanwhile, back on earth....
You are becoming more like Trump on this and just as rational
Its a smear and you have bought it hook line and sinker and then you revert to this playground level off debate.
NO corbyn is not doing a great hob the party is ****ed, his leadership skills under question, the party failing, the PLP hate him etc
Given this I fail to see why folk bother to make up shit with which to hit him. It is neither true nor needed
Pick factual stuff to complain about and then we can have a debate
Pick factual stuff to complain about and then we can have a debate
He's anti nuclear power and the industry behind it.
A fact.
One that he was rightly hit with. Then his own party try and claim fake news.
[url= http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/entry/emily-thornberry-says-it-is-fake-news-to-claim-jeremy-corbyn-opposed-nuclear-power-even-though-he-did_uk_58b02796e4b060480e06dc3f ]Seen here in the evil right wing press. Oh....hold on, HuffPo aren't are they?[/url]
Laughable.
Everyone who can see Jezza for what he is is basically Donald Trump?
It's an interesting argument.
Shall we discuss lefty paranoid, delusional conspiracy theories?
probably make more sense to discuss straw man arguments and then I can do you a picture of what i meant
Cpt I would imagine that the nuke issue did indeed harm him there and probably to the wider electorate
yes its laughable they would deny this- that he was ever anti
see what grown up can do Binbins 😉
Junkyard the cross party Home Affairs Committee said Corbyn has created a "safe space" for Anti-Semites. We've discussed this at length but the Labour Party under Corbyn has a very real and very significant problem.
Surprisingly you are yet again factually inaccurate [and tony had a great dossier BTW]
"While the Labour leader has a proud record of campaigning against many types of racism, based on the evidence we have received, we are not persuaded that he fully appreciates the distinct nature of post-Second World War anti-Semitism."We believe that his lack of consistent leadership on this issue, and his reluctance to separate anti-Semitism from other forms of racism, has created what some have referred to as a ‘safe space’ for those with vile attitudes towards Jewish people.”
and he replied
The report added: “The failure of the Labour party to deal consistently and effectively with anti-Semitic incidents in recent years risks lending force to allegations that elements of the Labour movement are institutionally anti-Semitic."But in a strongly-worded response, Mr Corbyn said the committee had failed to take account of the work the Labour party had done to tackle anti-Semitism.
He said: "The committee heard evidence from too narrow a pool of opinion, and its then-chair rejected both Chakrabarti’s and the Jewish Labour Movement’s requests to appear and give evidence before it. Not a single woman was called to give oral evidence in public, and the report violates natural justice by criticising individuals without giving them a right to be heard.
"The report’s political framing and disproportionate emphasis on Labour risks undermining the positive and welcome recommendations made in it.
"Although the Committee heard evidence that 75% of anti-Semitic incidents come from far right sources, and the report states there is no reliable evidence to suggest anti-Semitism is greater in Labour than other parties, much of the report focuses on the Labour party."
He added: "Under my leadership, Labour has taken greater action against anti-Semitism than any other party, and will implement the measures recommended by the Chakrabarti report to ensure Labour is a welcoming environment for members of all our communities."
So there you have it 75% are from the right but labour has the problem though they could not prove it was greater than other parties
Politically motivated Blairesque dossier.
Jeremy's great, isn't he?
Can't wait for him to be prime minister
Nothing is Jezzas fault, is it?He's doing a great job.
It's all the bastard right wing media
Do you actually think Corbyn is a racist anti-semite?
Personally I think the Tories and their media backers have played a masterful game of splitting Labours core voters and nullifying their biggest threat. Not to mention annihilating the third party into paper tiger local election protest vote. All the little players taking bites. It's almost a blanket opinion JC is incompetent! I'd say the character assignation is as good as complete.
The people of Britain missed their opportunity two elections ago to manoeuvre the ruling classes toward progressive constitutional change. Alas the bigger picture was too much for most who voted to start the game a fresh. Here we are back to babies smashing the toys over each others heads in a desperate war of attrition, someone give us simple answers and make it stop 😆
"Everyone who can see Jezza for what he is is basically Donald Trump?"
Yep, used to be quite a common comparison.
Vote for me, I'm not a conventional Politician: Check.
Keynesian Money Tree: Check.
Day to day incompetence: Check.
Crippling inability to get the media to put out their message: Check
Mass Public rallies: Check
The difference is I can't see Trump achieving anything in office. In contrast Corbyn without office, is being quite effective in smoothing the path to Brexit which, as a Bennite, will be a genuine achievement he can be proud of.
[i]The much more interesting thing that happened yesterday was the reception given to Angela Rayner by the Stoke QT audience. She's clearly being groomed for bigger things.[/I]
tbh she comes across like a shop-steward from the 70's.
Listening to her drone on, even for a life-Labour voter, I've to turn off the sound. And eventually I turned it off with her "will of the people" constant.
You could also see the look of contempt on Stoke old boy's face when she was talking plus loved his put-downs to the blonde (no idea who she was) on his right.
Daz we've discussed this at length but ...
Do you actually think Corbyn is a racist anti-semite?
He's starting to get close. Historically I would have said definitely not but his actions and inactions are hard to ignore. To give him the benefot of the doubt you would have to condone his eyes on the floor inaction and concoct an explanation for him given credence to terrorists
He has consistently offered a platform to and stood side by side politically with confirmed anti-Senites (he was called back to the Select Committee for providing a false answer to a specifc question about this) and terrorists. Stop The War, Westminster invitations, infamous "friends" remark
He has done all he can to brush under the carpet / bury the anti-Semitic abuse carried out by Oxford Uni Labour Party
His award of a Peerage and front bench job to Shakrabati for her "whitewash" (words used by Jewish groups) and the diabolical handling of the press launch
Junky is quite deliberately missing the point. The issue is not that a minority of anti-Semtic incidents come from the left but that anti-Semites exist in significant numbers inside the Labour Party and it's activists and that Corbyn's election as leader has encouraged them amd given them space to operate.
This week is Israel Apartheid Week at Universities. Thankfully increasing numbers have seen first hand that these "events" go far beyond critising Israel and have become very much the forum for anti-Semtism. If you want to critise Israel stand ourside the embassy and demonstrate. Attacking and harrasing students simply as they are Jewish is anti-Semtic
[url= http://www.thedailymash.co.uk/politics/politics-headlines/corbyn-admits-that-there-are-serious-problems-with-britains-voters-20170224122779 ]Corbyn admits there are serious flaws with Britains voters[/url]
Ran out of momentum in Copeland then..
One of your best 😆Junky is quite deliberately missing the point
anti-Semites exist in significant numbers inside the Labour Party
#jambyfact
#fakenews
and again
the report states there is no reliable evidence to suggest anti-Semitism is greater in Labour than other parties,
He's starting to get close.
Yawn. The level of hysteria around Corbyn is reaching ridiculous levels. Between you rabid RWers and the anti-Corbyn labour 'supporters' the poor bloke can't take a sh*t without causing some sort of faux outrage. You all really need to get a grip.
Labour's "fantastic achievement" in Copeland:
[url= https://twitter.com/i/web/status/835147850929537024 ]https://twitter.com/i/web/status/835147850929537024[/url]
😯 😀 😯 😀
she almost has a point [ you could argue it if you had to] but it is the sort of answer that makes folk despise politicians as it was nt and she cannot possibly believe that.
It was a shit result for labour
Binners
"We seem to be hoping for the Messiah" 🙂 🙂 🙂
Lisa Nandy, Labour MP for Wigan on Sophy Ridge
Binners you have become so irrational and unhinged Jamby now sees you as his natural ally 😯
Surely being on the same side, with the same argument, as our resident Breitbart reading Muslim fearing #jambyfactor will make you reconsider your position?
Imagine if Corbyn had said half of what jamby had said but this time not about Muslims but about Jews
When he does this I will be prepared to call him a racist.
Irrational? Unhinged?
Ok..... or maybe just concerned, as a lot of people rightly are, about where the country is headed in the total absence of an opposition party at this critical time.
Theresa May has been given a clean sheet of paper to march us out of Europe and turn the country into a hyper-capitalist neo-liberal wet dream, with the full blessing of the 'leader of HM opposition' and his chums in their delusional, totally ineffectual lefty la la land.
What's about to unfold will be a catastrophe for the working class of this country. And I doubt the Labour Party will ever be forgiven for facilitating it. It's finished!
Reports from Copeland say that lifelong labour voters were voting Tory in the vain hope that losing the seat would usher in Corbyn's removal as leader.
They clearly don't know how the left works
Largest mass movement of [s]delusional halfwits[/s] political members in Europe yadda yadda yadda...
Over there in that other thread, it's all the media's fault. The "leadership" is trying to distract public attention away from incompetence by continually blaming, and now going to war with, the fourth estate.
This tactic has now found it's way into the Labour party. It's not us it's the media. It's not me, it's the media. Even after being forced into accepting some responsibility for the Copeland disaster, Corbyn attributes the rest of the blame to "the media". The fact that they tried to avoid the Nuclear issue and get people to focus on the NHS just shows that they know nobody trusts them because the leader wants to destroy the industry. He spent all his political life opposing it and his 11th hour conversion looks just like what it is - cheap opportunism.
So now he's taken a leaf out of the Orange ShitGibbon's book and is trying to desperately deflect blame by saying that simple reportage of what actually happens is somehow wrong. The media is there to be managed but he has no Alastair Stewart. He has nothing for this task and doesn't even seem to recognise the need.
It's no wonder the Conservatives are happy with such easy meat.
You mean Campbell right?but he has no Alastair Stewart
Either way, you are arguing against yourself.
You say the media can't be responsible, but then say a spin doctor can fix the issues.
Binners opposition to Corbyn based on his record/policies /ineptitude is fine shouting anti semitic terrorist sympathiser is not as it just not true - its also unnecessary as there is much with which to attack him.
@whoppit - re the media its pretty clear - Brexit result for example - that if you peddle the same lies often enough folk will believe it
I lost count of the number of folk who told me the Eu was undemocratic but when challenegd could not explain how it was organised beyond it having MEP's. They never had any answer when i asked if they voted for the queen or the lords or the PM or the cabinet.
Clearly the media - including left leaning intellectual ones like the guardian- are not on Corbyns side and this does make it more difficult to sell his message as it is delivered to the masses via a right wing distortion filter - or bias. How much this harms him we can debate but it is certainly not helping him.
WIth trump what the media is saying is [largely]true but corbyn is not a terrorist sympathising harbourer of jews haters
Its not a reasonable comparison between the two.
The media may be biased or the POTIS may be a serial BS with no grasp on the truth or reality and they are just calling him out on basic facts - even countries are doing this now. Its not the same
Trump banned the Daily Mail for example - so its ether to o factual or not right wing enough for him 😯
AlexSimon - Member
but he has no Alastair Stewart
You mean Campbell right?
Either way, you are arguing against yourself.
You say the media can't be responsible, but then say a spin doctor can fix the issues.
Oops. Yes, Campbell of course...
The media have no other responsibility than to report. They don't owe the Labour Prty anything.
A good media liaison chief manages the focus of what is being reported. Even if they DID have a rottweiler like Campbell, he'd have his work cut out keeping Corbyn on message and trying to get him to not continually shoot himself in the foot..
Shami really has gone full politician, of course perhaps she always was during her days at Liberty
Labour frontbencher Shami Chakrabarti ridiculed after blaming almost everything except Jeremy Corbyn for Copeland defeat
[b]The Labour Baroness blamed bad weather, the media, disunity and Labour voters not having cars[/b]
This is worth a seperate quote 🙂
Slamming the interview, Labour MP and former frontbencher Michael Dugher tweeted: “Pearls of wisdom from the never-having-stood-for-election, joined-ten-minutes-ago wing of the Labour Party: Labour voters ‘don’t have cars’.”
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🙂
Harrrrrold 🙂
The running-dog, so-called-Blairite, crypto-facist running-dog scum of so-called New Labour gained 58% of the vote in Copeland in 1997.
Does anyone need any more convincing of just how devious these Red Tories are ?
Praise be that we have a man of conviction like Jeremy to bring a new type of politics to the constituency!
Electoral oblivion beckons. If you do the maths, the pollsters say if there were an election tomorrow Mrs May would have a majority of over 100.
But the polls always flatter labour, as people are always reticent about saying they're voting Tory. I'd say 150+ would be more realistic
Hurray for conviction politics!
We're all well and truly ****ed!!! Welcome to the one party state
I think the hope for Corbyn was that he'd bring an end to the 1 party state. "3 cheeks of the same backside" etc
Why any surprise? As shocking as it is for most observers, political parties are no stranger to electing no-hopers as their leaders, The Tories and LDs have done it in the past, it just happens to be Labours turn now.
Yes its appaling for politics to have a dysfunctional opposition, but it is amusing to watch notably the attempts to justify something that was flawed from the outset.
The thing is that saying that Nu Labour were exactly the same as the Tories would mean that you were an utter and complete idiot.
Unfortunately these idiots all ganged together, took advantage of the new woefully ill-conceived electoral system and voted Corbyn in.
Twice.
They're actually so moronic, they'd probably do it again tomorrow
Winding down by watching the re-run of Peston - Tom W about to come on. Should be amusing.
And through the looking glass you go....
He's just stated the we have already triggered A50!!
This is not the time for a leadership issue.
Of course it isn't.
Stick with the most unpopular leader in the history of mankind. Why wouldn't you?
Oh.... because the electoral system means that the entire political party is being held hostage by a mix of grizzled old communists and sixth form bedwetters.
I don't know which I hate the most! I'm sure its a question a lot of life-long labour voters, who could never bring themselves to vote for a clueless tool like Corbyn are presently asking themselves
Perhaps more worrying is the fact that Rayner and Long-Bailey are being lined up as potential replacements. You can screw up once, but do it twice in a row and you are in serious problems.
Hague
I.D.S
Howard
Milliband
Corbyn
???
Unfortunately these idiots all ganged together, took advantage of the new woefully ill-conceived electoral system and voted Corbyn in.Twice.
They're actually so moronic, they'd probably do it again tomorrow
Labour has no chance of electing an effective leader whilst the current leadership election system is in place and the hard left nutters won't allow that system to be changed - it is the only election they have a chance of winning.
Was Manchester Gorton the constituency where you said that jewish voters had decided not to back Labour any more ?
[url= https://order-order.com/2017/02/26/gerald-kaufman-dead/ ]https://order-order.com/2017/02/26/gerald-kaufman-dead/[/url]
With a majority of 24,000 they should retain the seat.
Kaufman was one of Israel's strongest critics, one reason why Corbyn was so close to him.
As I have posted before the take over of Labour is a result for the hard left even if they only win 150 seats as thats many more than they had control of before and much more ££££ in terms of salaries and researcher/assistant funding. More time on TV getting their message accross. We've seen how appalling a protest poitician like Corbyn is when in charge (cough cough) he doesn't want to be PM he just wants to protest more loudly "on principal"
Labour under Corbyn is turning out just as we said it would with the key difference that we thought he would have been kicked out a year ago.
We've seen how appalling a protest poitician like Corbyn is when in charge
NO
FFS
We've seen how appalling Corbyn HIMSELF is when in charge. Don't start shitty generalisations. I'm sorry to be rude, but I find the way you make leaps and connections in your rhetoric absolutely abhorrent. Like you cannot actually have a constructive conversation, you can only smear and insinuate. Which is the very worst trait most politicans share, and the real reason most people are disengaged from proper debate.
Its a generalisation worth making. Protest politicians don't have the skills to be in charge eg compromise to appeal to a broader audience, they have the skills to protest, ie make a fuss.
Farage, Trump, Sturgeon?
Oh wait a minute you said skills in charge?!! As you were 😉
[url= http://labourbriefing.squarespace.com/home/2017/2/26/the-soft-coup-is-under-way ]Full-on tinfoil helmet bonkersness from within the bunker[/url]
😆
Kaufman was one of Israel's strongest critics
True. He must be a racist anti-semite by your logic.
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The running-dog, so-called-Blairite, crypto-facist running-dog scum of so-called New Labour gained 58% of the vote in Copeland in 1997.Does anyone need any more convincing of just how devious these Red Tories are ?
Praise be that we have a man of conviction like Jeremy to bring a new type of politics to the constituency!
you are @corbynsuperfan and I claim my five pounds.
Wow Molgrims angry man, you taking lessons from [s]Messiah[/s] Corbyn?
Interesting that McDonnell today has gone full bunker mentality. The way things are going they'll only go, if the party goes down with them. Amazing stuff. They are either extraordinarily stupid and belligerent, or being paid off by the Tories!
Full-on tinfoil helmet bonkersness from within the bunker
Honestly this is getting silly now. Yes the way it's written suggest a slightly paranoid bunker mentality, but the actual points it raises are pretty much established fact.
Are there people in the labour party actively pursuing an agenda to unseat Corbyn? Yes, of course they are. Peter Mandelson is on record saying he does something every day to bring it about.
Do they have friends in the media who can publish material to support their goals? Does this question really need answering?
Would they rather the labour party lose than continue with Corbyn at the helm? Tony Blair said so himself so why disbelieve him?
You can't really deny this is all happening when it's pretty much on record. But you can question the response to it. Talk of plotters and suchlike isn't helpful. They should be aiming to take the higher ground and resist using the activity of their opponents as excuses for their failings, which I think they are guilty of.
@dazh you clearly haven't been reading my rationale. You can critise the Isaeli government without being anti-Semitic. Many Jews including Kaufman do exactly that. The footage of the soldier shooting the Palestinian knife attacker was firmed and released by Jews, their actions are not anti-Semtitc. I have explained many times how and where such critism / actions / inactions crosses the line into racism. One example is harrasing Jewish students at University as a proxy for Israel government policy, such behaviour is now commonplace and especially during Israel Apatheid Week which is running now. I have heard first hand from students affected. Kurds in London protesting Turkey stand outside the embassy with flags and chant slogans, they don't find Turkish students and hurl abuse or find restaurants and try and force them out of business
@binners yup that's the full monty. Absolutely bonkers.
Zionism is the nationalist belief that the Jews should have a homeland
That's a nice way of putting it. Though doesn't really say much about the theft of another peoples land and forced removal, nor that the borders of that stolen land are not defined, hence expansionist in its essense. (See continual settlement expansion for evidence.)
But aye lets stick with the nice fluffy definition.
In that context it's perfectly reasonable to be anti-zionist. I am.
@dazh you clearly haven't been reading my rationale
Since when did you have a rationale? Surely that's a very grand way to describe making stuff up about Corbyn and the Labour party and posting it on an endless loop?
^^ Seaso the point of anti-Zionists is that they seek to destroy the world's only Jewish state which was created by the foreunner of the UN. Israel is surrounded by Arab states which from1948 to this day have tried to wipe it off the face of the earth. The Arabs attacking Israel have constantly failed in this military action and in general the Palestinians have been caught in the middle and have seen the land they would like as a state shrink as a result. Israel returned to Egypt more land (ie the Sinai) than it has ever "taken" from the Palestinians. Israel did this after Egypt signed a peace agreement. The precedent is quite clear.
The Palestinians want a single state solution, the eradication of Israel. Hama is quite ooen and says this should be achieved via Jihad, Fatah thinks it will achieve it via negotiation eg right of return. Until they change their stance the situation is going to continue to be dire.
Do you actually believe that shit?
Let me ask a question, as I'm fairly certain a one state solution is the only answer, as israel won't allow a 2 state solution, that much is clear.
In Israels one state solution (which is the only one worth talking about, rather that the utter fantasy of a palestinian 1 state solution,) would you give the palestinians equal voting rights?
Daz... that statement from the bunker isn't 'slightly paranoid', it's the ramblings of a madman.
Apparently he's now 'trying to distance himself from the statement'
Though I don't know how exactly you set about 'distancing yourself' from a statement you wrote yourself then posted online 😆
Israel returned to Egypt more land (ie the Sinai) than it has ever "taken" from the Palestinians
How the **** does Israel giving land to Egypt help the Palestinians?
http://labourbriefing.squarespace.com/home/2017/2/26/the-soft-coup-is-under-way
"The plotters are effective in distorting the media coverage because they have extensive contacts and allies in the media"
Isn't the current Labour leadership supposed to have their own extensive media allies and contacts since getting their message out is their job.
Agree re media distortion, but everyone suffers from that, not just Labour.
molgrips - Member
Israel returned to Egypt more land (ie the Sinai) than it has ever "taken" from the Palestinians
How the **** does Israel giving land to Egypt help the Palestinians?
I also wonder how giving examples of Israels utter military superiority, supports the case that nasty Palestinians are even capable of "wiping Israel off the map".
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I agree with Jamba (never thought that would happen) the hard left hat dominates the Labour Party membership are not interested in winning an election, however if they can retain 150 seats and utilise deselection they have a very strong left wing political presence. Disruptive politics is what they are interested in not governing. Corbyn has never hidden this, the PLP can not fix this they need to resign.
jambalaya - Member
@dazh you clearly haven't been reading my rationale. You can critise the Isaeli government without being anti-Semitic.
Yet on page 321 you posted the Lair Yapid Newsnight interview where he equates criticism of Israeli policy with anti Semitism.
Which is it?
It's been three months, any chance of an answer?
it's the ramblings of a madman.
Hardly. Do you deny that the substance of what he's talking about is true? What's up for debate is not whether there are people high up in the labour party and the media who are actively seeking to undermine and unseat Corbyn, but how to respond to them. What should they do? What would you do in their position?
Rusty, blimey 3 months ago ... back I go to check and will reply.
EDiT: yes I do see anti-Zionist and anti-Semite as one and the same. Isreal is the world's only Jewish State. There are many Christian States. Thee are many Islamic States. Anti-Zionist means you do not believe the Jews have a right to their own state. I have yet to meet an anti-Zionist who believes all the Arab/Islamic states should become Secular, are those same people campaigning to ensure Ireland, Italy and Spain (Poland too) seek to become Secular shen they are so clearly Catholic states ? No they are not they are only targetting Jews.
I don't want to derail the thread with an argument about Israel so we best move on. Suffice to say if Corbyn is leader come 2020 terrorism/IRA/Hezbollah and Hamas his words and actions will be front and centre
I would suggest that the very last thing anyone on the right (outside of the labour party) would want to do is unseat corbyn. He's far too valuable in post. That does not mean the Murdoch media won't have some sport at his expense but they will pull their punches before a 10 count.
jambalaya - Member
Rusty, blimey 3 months ago ... back
I'm very patient.
🙂
I don't want to derail the thread with an argument about Israel so we best move on.
I'm not asking about Israel.
I'm asking whether you believe what Yair Lapid said in that interview, specifically his answer to KW's question approx 2 minutes in.
What's newswprthy in the JMcD briefing. Did he believe that this want happening? Politics is a nasty business - ask the cuckoos too.....
Israel can do what it like in regards to religion. But if it's going to utterly control a population it should afford those citizens equal rights, a decent standard of living and a vote. You want the territory, you inherit the responsibility to look after the people already there.jambalaya - Member
I have yet to meet an anti-Zionist who believes all the Arab/Islamic states should become Secular.
Show me a muslim or a christian country doing the same and I'll be equally against it. (fire away with examples if you like.)
Anti-Zionist means you do not believe the Jews have a right to their own state.
It does not anymore than anti-semite means you hate all semites [ who include the palestinians]. Words meanings change
I have yet to meet an anti-Zionist who believes all the Arab/Islamic states should become Secular, are those same people campaigning to ensure Ireland, Italy and Spain (Poland too) seek to become Secular shen they are so clearly Catholic states ? No they are not they are only targeting Jews.
well its the only Jewish state so the "logic" is tautologous and you have completely missed the point
Many people complain about the actions of those states you dont claim racism when folk do it and they object to their actions not their religion.
The reason for the objections are all based on what Israel [ or the other countries] does not its religion. That you do not wish to try to defend its actions, which are in clear violation of international law and decent morality, I can understand . It easier to scream anti semite rather than explain how "putting people on a diet", collective punishments, lands grabs and illegal settlements, assassinations abroad etc are ok. Objecting to these actions is neither objecting to Jews or to a Jewish state its objecting to what the state is doing.
I find it somewhat unlikely you would let or defend an Arab state were it to do 5% of Israel. I can only imagine you reaction were it doing it to the Jewish folk it was depriving of land. If you need to find arguments that lack coherence, principle and logic then its much closer than you think.
If i criticise china humanitarian record it is not due to racism or their state religion Same with Saudi or ****stan or wherever.
Its not a hard point to grasp
I also dont want to derail it but that needed a reply.
I will not be debating israel with you
Rusty he also said if a jewish person said it was then it was true so he is still anti scottish as i said so.
Hardly. Do you deny that the substance of what he's talking about is true?
Ahh, but why then is he trying to "distance" himself from the article that he typed out and put onto a website ?
He's now distancing himself from distancing the article.
Very good article in this month's GQ, from Alastair Campbell. Pretty damning on Corbyn and JMcD - in a nutshell they don't have a strategy to win the next election. A good read ...and I'm not a fan of any one political party.
The myth of individual culpability allows them to salvage the underlying dogma and try again under new leadership. Whether Mr Corbyn goes before or after the next general election, scheduled for 2020, his erstwhile supporters will recruit a more persuasive vessel for their socialism and pacifism — as if a country that has not returned a prime minister to the left of Tony Blair since 1974 has any interest in either. This way, Labour can waste another electoral cycle, not just this one and the last one.
Ganesh in FT. Simply put.
Rusty KY Is it possible to be anti-Zionist and not anti-Semitic ? He says anti-Zionism is just "camouflage" for anti-Semitism - this I agree with for the reasons I have given
seasom there is a whole raft of countries for example which are responsible for human rights violations and no one, you included, are campaigning for those countries to cease to exist. Regime change maybe, eg Syria but not for the country to dissapear. It's like campaigning to put the Pope in charge of Mecca because of Saudi Human Rights violations. Thats the point with anti-Zionism, it's goal is to ensure Israel ceases to exist and more than that that Jews have no right to have a country anywhere.
On rights, Isreali Arabs have (imo) the best standard of living in the most liberal democracy anywhere in the Middle East or broader Arab world. Palestinians in Gaza and West Bank are not Israeli citizens, the Gazans chose their government in 2005 when Israel withdrew. I would argue they made a very poor choice which has lead them to the place that they are. Something like 90% of Palestinians live under the rule of the Palestinian Authority.
Anyway back to Corbyn, he has a problem with Jews. He sent Tom Watson to Israel on a visit saying he was "too busy". I am sure Tom Watson is a strong critic of Israeli policies but he went and he sang the Israeli National Anthem.
Rusty KY Is it possible to be anti-Zionist and not anti-Semitic ? He says anti-Zionism is just "camouflage" for anti-Semitism - this I agree with for the reasons I have given
Thanks for the reply but you still have not answered my question.
Yair Lapid, in the interview you posted, and say you agree with, states that he believes criticism of the Israeli government is, in itself, anti Semitic.
Yet a couple of pages ago you say it is not.
You can see why I and possibly others are confused.
🙂
🙄