Jeremy Corbyn

is it a sign of support or is he taking the piss?

I am assuming the former - or perhaps too much Thatcher's cider at lunchtime?

By elections ...my predictions. Copeland goes to the Tories. Stoke is less clear but I say UKIP sneaks it but could be a Labour hold. Depends how the Tories there vote, could vote tactically for or against Labour.

Oddly I think these results will be less damaging to Labour than finishing 3rd in Scotland.

Stoke vote for a remainer !?! 😉

Havent people just given up?

Keep quiet, let the Tories take the flak for Brexshit, make sure no real Labour leaders get tainted in the process, sit it out until 2020 - damage limitation....

So

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What will the so-called "Day of reckoning" look like?

What will the so-called "Day of reckoning" look like?

Not been paying much attention, but my faceache timeline seems to be populated by supposed labour supporters who are hoping that the tories and UKIP win. They should have a look in the mirror.

Dazh they recognise that more Corbyn will be a disaster for Labour

On QT UKIP seem to be conceding defeat in Stoke

Cripes - Britain Elects on Twitter estimating turnout in Stoke Central at 30% - so that could be less than 20k out of an electorate of 60k-ish. Way to go electorate.

they recognise that more Corbyn will be a disaster for Labour

They may well be right on that, but supporting the tories and UKIP is beyond the pale, and they are utterly wrong to think that it will help the labour party in any way. In fact all it does is reinforce the argument that the real problem in the labour party is not Corbyn, but people like them who refuse to accept the wishes of the membership.

[quote=deadlydarcy ]Cripes - Britain Elects on Twitter estimating turnout in Stoke Central at 30% - so that could be less than 20k out of an electorate of 60k-ish. Way to go electorate.

I'm sure Doris will get some of the blame.

BBC suggesting via QT that Labour have won both

[quote=binners ]Labour will lose both these seats. Its just a case of how heavily

Turnout in SC more like 38%. Yay. Woo.

EDIT: Copeland looks like it could go either way. Was looking Lab earlier, apparently rural boxes may swing it to Tory.

In the middle of the second term of a Tory government, holding (scraping?) 2 seats that have been rock solid labour since the dawn of time, one of which is against a ****ing UKIP Candidate FFS? will be seen as a victory?

Pretty much Sums up Corbyn

Latest polls have labour 18% behind the Tory's. so all this is entertaining, but academic.

Apparently the beardy messiah has already said he won't go even if they lose both seats.

And it was Blair who was the self-serving egomaniac, right?

As the Labour Party in a by-election in the middle of a second term Tory government, you'd be looking at massively increasing your already safe majority.

Instead they're bricking it about losing both.

And let's not forget the reason we're even having either of these by-elections in the first place?

Go Jezza!!

Well they hung on in there in Stoke, lost Cope land to the Tories.

As per DD and scotroutes, I am somewhat disappointed at the poor turnout for both. I have never had a storm Doris on voting day but even before/after 12 hour shifts at work I have also never once not voted even for what you might think are 'less important' elections e.g. Council, pcc.
I know that's preaching to the converted- we are all reading this because we do care. But given the howling about NHS, brexit and so on from all corners of paper, telly and social media I can't understand why more people aren't coming out. Even to vote ukip ffs!

Gaining Copeland - the best by-election result for a government since 1966!

I do hope that Trudy thanked all those that helped make it happen - Jeremy, John, Tom, Rebecca, Emily and Diane, Seamus, etc, etc.

They can blame it on Doris and the nuclear industry but at some point the Lefty Luvvies have got to realise that their Messiah is turning away their core voters.

Turnouts roughly in the ballpark

http://www.ukpolitical.info/by-election-turnout.htm

Operation "Save Jezza" still a success then... 😉

And poor, late, Michael Foot loses another personal record.

Official Opposition party lose a by-election to the Governing party for the first time since Michael Foot was Leader of the Opposition

The last Tory MP to represent this area was born in 1879.

Jacob Rees-Mogg ?

vg ATP 😀

Turnout was actaully pretty good for both, lower falloff from General Election that most by-elections. Stoke's problem was the General Election turnout which was the lowest in the country at less than 50%.

allthepies wins STW 🙂

The end for UKIP? Fingers crossed.

The end for UKIP

More likely the end for Nuttall.
Farage will try and get someone else in as king. Someone he supports.

Nutall was just picked on by the press its not hi s fault he did not have a Phd was not a pro footballer , never lost a close friend at Hillsborough and mystery surrounds his claim that he was even there.

Good day to be a tory - but not a racist one- or Binners for that matter

Bad day for labour and it is not going to help the schism within the party.

Corbyn has to make the next move now which i suspect will be to plow on regardless.

Turnouts, stoke in particular - was shocking
An MP with less than 8000 votes 😯

No one should be pleased about such woeful participation rates

I am somewhat disappointed at the poor turnout for both

Really? The choice is Corbyn, the Tories or UKIP and you wonder why people just can't be arsed? Seriously?

I was amused to learn last week that Corbyn insists on a 4 day week. If he has to do a tv slot at the weekend he expects a day off in the week to make up for that.

Conviction Politician? Is he buggery.

If labour had lost both there's a chance corbs would've gone, which means labour could've found someone less divisive

As expected Corbyn team blaming disunity rather than leadership....

Copeland was bad for them, no doubt, if it was all about nuclear be NHS, it means corbs is having a -ve effect thetr

Stoke was odd one, a very pro remain candidate who was a bit of a dick won, in a 70% leave area !!
Though the Torries and ukip each got 25% of the vote.

Obviously very low turnout shows people are very disllusioned with our politics at the moment and who can blame them !

We agree on some things again !

Corbyn has to make the next move now which i suspect will be to plow on regardless.

Turnouts, stoke in particular - was shocking
An MP with less than 8000 votes

Corbyn has already been trotting out the same old "Social Justice Warrior" stuff and speaking about connecting with the electorate.

Corbyn insists on a 4 day week. If he has to do a tv slot at the weekend he expects a day off in the week to make up for that.
Conviction Politician? Is he buggery.

by all means accuse him of being lazy or not prepared to do enough to be leader - I very much doubt it is a 4 days a week type of job - but he is clearly sticking to his conviction - which may well be a stupid conviction- its certainly unrealistic for that job if the claim is true

So the old boy does better than expected (only badly) and keeps Nuttall put of Stoke (Bravo) and we still get a day of reckoning.

Great Panto...

A good result. Jeremy holds on to lead Labour to victory in 2020. Had both been lost even Corbyn supporters might have thought the game was up.

Indeed @irc, they remain "on course". As to where that's a matter of opinion

[i]"There are far too many who want to luxuriate in moral righteousness in opposition...who is going to pay the price?"[/i]

Denis Healey

Perfect day for the Tories. Jeremy loses a by-election to them in mid-term, but isn't fatally wounded by losing Stoke.

UKIP not having another MP is a bit of a bonus for the rest of us. Well, consolation.

Obviously very low turnout shows people are very disllusioned with our politics at the moment and who can blame them !

Not me, I am very disillusioned too. I think it will have to get worse before it can get better. 15 more years of tories before people wake up and realise they are not doing them any good and immigration was actually the reason for their problems. F knows what state the tories will have got us to in another 15 years though!

I will do what I can and vote against but living in an area where Tory got 60% and UKIP were second with 15% doesn't look good for me.

So Labour manage to hold by a fairly slim-ish majority of 2620 against a guy who pretty much lied about his entire background; the Hillsborough thing being a new low. The analysis of that is that UKIP lost it by being a disgrace, Labour certainly didn't 'win' it. A credible candidate for UKIP (if such a thing exists!) would have had a chance.

What dragon says. Had more UKIP/Tory decided to vote tactically one of them would have won. Labour got in as opposition vote was split.

Interesting to see the goalposts changing in the wake of these results. In stoke everyone thought it was a dead-cert that UKIP was going to win. UKIP going after white brexit voters and with pro-remain labour candidate Stoke was supposed to be the death-knell for the Corbyn leadership, yet it didn't happen.

Copeland is different, and needs to be put in the context Corbyn's avowed anti-nuclear principals. It'd be like expecting Liverpool to vote for a party led by Kelvin McKenzie.

The much more interesting thing that happened yesterday was the reception given to Angela Rayner by the Stoke QT audience. She's clearly being groomed for bigger things. Compared to her previous appearances on things like QT it looks like she's had some media training and an image makeover. I wonder why?

Interesting article by John Crace: https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2017/feb/24/stoke-copeland-labour-remain-richmond-copeland-ukip

Dazh I think it's a stretch to say everyone thought UKIP would win in Stoke, as I posted oppostion vote was split UKIP/Tory. I think most comemtaors thought the result would likely go to Labour.

The much more interesting thing that happened yesterday was the reception given to Angela Rayner by the Stoke QT audience. She's clearly being groomed for bigger things.

Bigger things than being in the shadow cabinet ?

Toilet attendant ?
Park warden ?

UKIP lost Stoke rather than Labour retaining it - their candidate was, in the end, shown to be a Walter Mitty character. There was very partial reporting of all of his ( very many ) shortcomings, whilst I didn't see any reports of the labour staffer who sent text messages telling muslims that they would face judgement from Allah if they didn't vote labour, which is rightly just a little bit illegal. Not fake news - all they reported was true, but fake journalism as they did not report with fairness and impartiality. Much as I like C4 news, the cost of some of their reporting should go on to the the Labour campaign expenditure report.

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Copeland is different, and needs to be put in the context Corbyn's avowed anti-nuclear principals. It'd be like expecting Liverpool to vote for a party led by Kelvin McKenzie.

But Daz, thats the whole point. Its just one issue, but Corbyn has spent his entire career vocally gobbing off juvenile, fringe leftist ideas, of no interest or appeal to the grown ups outside the common room.

So now he has to vocalise ideas that have to have a mainstream appeal, nobody believes a bloody word of it! And why would they? Because when you've spent 3 decades saying the complete opposite, its laughable.

The whole nuclear thing is just one of a multitude of issues on which he has absolutely zero credibility. And all the Tory's need to do is point at his previous statements to highlight that.

[url= http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/jeremy-corbyn-labour-leader-not-stand-down-copeland-by-election-defeat-tory-party-stoke-central-ukip-a7597111.html ]Happy birthday Theresa![/url]

Oh and Corbyn this morning:

( and he is not the one in the white )

"He's a different type of leader. He is that sort of person who does listen, who is decent and honest and does bring people together."

JMcD

So now he has to vocalise ideas that have to have a mainstream appeal

He doesn't really because you're under the misapprehension that he's positioning himself to be the next PM. After recent reports about maneuverings to identify the next leader and seeing the likes of Rayner emerge I'm more convinced than ever that he won't fight the next election. You're all obsessing about something that probably won't happen.

Disappointing that nobody is talking about policies.
One thing that was clear to me during 'on the street' interviews, is that many people were voting based on newspaper headlines and personalities without actual regard for policy.
Nobody could actually say why UKIP were going to change things and what they were going to do - they were just fed up and wanted change. They'd heard that UKIP were different.

Same with Corbyn. People were damning the man, until people started to discuss actual policy, and then they started to realise that they agreed with him.

But people don't have time for investigation.

Watching some of the videos of people wandering around the boarded up, crumbling parts of Stoke was totally depressing. They really have been left behind. They just don't realise that it was first Thatcher, then Blair who left them there and that May will only deliver more of the same.

"He's a different type of leader. He is that sort of person who does listen, who is decent and honest and does bring people together."

JMcD

That would certainly be different from the shower of sh1te we have running the country.

ITV’s Chris Ship asks Jez “Have you at any point this morning looked in the mirror and asked yourself, could the problem actually be me?” Corbyn’s reply: “No. Thank you for your question.”

[url] https://order-order.com/2017/02/24/corbyn-im-not-problem/ [/url]

Wow, what a scoop!

"He's a different type of leader. He is that sort of person who does listen, who is decent and honest and does bring people together."
JMcD

Evidence please? He didn't listen to the voters in Cumbria did he?

He doesnt bring people together very well either, but let's not let that get in the way.

His conviction on Europe, nuclear power etc are as strong as ever and that's what counts.

He's a different type of leader. He is that sort of person who does listen, who is decent and honest and does bring people together.

He's brought a lot of people in Copeland together to vote against him. I'm sure he'll have the same unifying effect on constituencies all over the country at the next general election.

Theresa must be today gleefully drawing up her programme for the next 9 years of unopposed rule

Something to look forward to eh?

DrJ Corbyn's record of "providing a safe space" to Anti-Semites (Commons select committe quote) would seem to prove JMcD very much misguided in his quote. That plus all the stories from Labour MPs of Corbyn just staring at the floor when faced with a difficult issue or having to make a decision.

I see Labour's new poster child Baroness Chakrabati is keeping a low profile

Copeland. UKIP vote went to the Tories it seems. Given (roughly) 30-40% Kippers are typically ex Labour that's quite a switch. Telegrapgh's prediction for 2020 based on the by-election results is 175 Labour seats

[img] [/img]

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/02/24/labour-obliterated-fat-majority-tories-results-had-general-election/

@binners I am sure Mrs May will not be complacent but we both know the Tories aren't really attacking Labour yet. When that comes it's going to very ugly for Labour

@binners I am sure Mrs May will not be complacent but we both know the Tories aren't really attacking Labour yet. When that comes it's going to very ugly for Labour

Why would they bother?

My friend did an ammusing blog on him:

[url= https://medium.com/@CharlotteGore/zombie-corbyn-2f677261ad29#.jvqkt5mc7 ]https://medium.com/@CharlotteGore/zombie-corbyn-2f677261ad29#.jvqkt5mc7[/url]

Shaggy - It Wasn't Me - Tip Top Tropical Edit. 8)

There seems to be very little incentive for May to attack Corbyn/Labour. I would imagine that she is quite comfortable with the current set up, if not with the nightmare of executing Brexshit.

Given (roughly) 30-40% Kippers are typically ex Labour that's quite a switch.

UKIP vote went to the Tories it seems. Given (roughly) 30-40% Kippers are typically ex Labour that's quite a switch

Secondly 50% of the UKIP switched to the tories and it seems entirely plausible that the tory[ or non labour ones if you wish to precise] UKIPers switched not the labour UkIPers- ie right wingers combined to beat labour.

I assume we will have to wait a while to now for certain

TBH with so much to hit labour with i am not sure why you chose something so tenuous.

Agreed may does not need to do anything[ its self destructing without her help] and she cannot be as effective as the PLP or Binners or corbyn

[I]One thing that was clear to me during 'on the street' interviews, is that many people were voting based on newspaper headlines and personalities without actual regard for policy.[/I]

Which is what people do, and why any serious politician has to understand the importance of the news cycle. It's all well and good being principled, but you have to know how to play the game.

Junky read it on a blog ages ago following 2015 GE analysis, I forget the exact number something in the 30's

Well that is me well convinced now.

My second point still stands as to what the UKIP shift shows.

Which is what people do, and why any serious politician has to understand the importance of the news cycle. It's all well and good being principled, but you have to know how to play the game.

If you accept that (instead of trying to change it) you're always going to have the same type of narcissistic game-playing politicians that we've had for the last 25 years.

Not necessarily; if Corbyn is the 'better class' of politician that he and others think he is, he could get a team around him that will help to spread his message to a wider audience, i.e. help him to play the game. But he doesn't, he seems happy to appeal solely to the membership of the Labour party.

Just had a conversation with one of the local labour bods this afternoon who pointed out that the normally labour voting constituency of Bury South is now ****ed because the huge Jewish community have now deserted the party completely. All due to Corbyn and the whole anti-semitism issue around him.

Another previously solid labour seat in the bag for the Tories. Another victory for this 'honest and principled' man eh?

If you accept that (instead of trying to change it) you're always going to have the same type of narcissistic game-playing politicians that we've had for the last 25 years.

I've heard similar things from corb supporting friends, and stuff like "this is the first time I've been excited about politics, compared to the dull spinning of the blair/brown years" etc etc.

All well and good, but convincing the public, getting messages across via media that people use, and the tedious job of actually making a big complex party hang together, let alone actually running things, is a job for grownups. It might not be that inspiring for those hoping for some kind of politician-free wonderland. But where/when has that sort of wonderland existed? Best we can hope for is a vaguely competent and well run opposition holding this awful government to account, and displacing it in a general election. This will involve competent politics and politicians, I'm afraid. Don't worry though. This is not likely to happen.

^ what he said ^

All due to Corbyn and the whole anti-semitism issue around him.

No one thinks corbyn personally is anti semitic or that he is even racist just like the DM did not think Red ed was red or that his dad was a coward or traitor or whatever lie they said that i have mercifully forgotten

they would probably have accused him of anti semitism if they could have
Its just RW BS that some buy into*
TBH anyone who thinks racism will reduce with right wingers and UKIP getting more power and us leaving the EU is seriously delusional

* yes if you search all the party and their claimed supporters you can find isolated incidents of racists within them
I hate the tories I dont think they are racist just because i can google and find some examples.

no one thinks Corbyn personally is anti-semitic

Erm..... yes they do. Plenty. Not least the entire Jewish population. And with good reason.

But you're right. It's probably the Daily Mails fault

I see it a different way. I think a lot of the voting apathy is due to the blair/brown years and in some part the Milliband years (in that he could never actually say what he thought for fear of attack). You see similar from Burnham and many more. That's what provided this sense of "it doesn't matter who I vote for, nothing changes" attitude and Corbyn has inherited that. Same with Brexit. It's a culmination of the last couple of decades.

The difficulty is in trying to communicate that things will change if you vote for Labour, when the full force of the elite/media/establishment really doesn't want anything to change.

I agree that they aren't doing a good enough job (I keep wondering when in PMQs he's doing to do the big "oh - a strong economy you say? The strong economy that borrows more...can't support services, etc, etc". Surely they've got one ready!

I'm not even a 'Corbyn the man' supporter, but I do think that he was necessary to bring Labour out of the spin/weathervane era.

As others have said, I hope that one of the current bubbling-under politicians like Clive Lewis can take over soon, but I don't envy them the challenge of facing the hostility that anyone who genuinely wants change will face.

Erm..... yes they do. Plenty. Not least the entire Jewish population. And with good reason.

Christ we're through the looking glass now. Jeremy Corbyn is neither a racist or anti-semite. Anyone with half a brain can see that. He's spent his entire life campaigning against the things he's accused of. Are the Corbyn haters going to deny and rewrite 30 years of history where he's on record, or regurgitate a bunch of Daily Mail and Scum headlines? If the 'local labour bods' were out in their community trying to persuade the Jewish Community that they're being sold a lie by the real racists instead of sitting idly by because it suits their anti-Corbyn agenda to see him smeared, then maybe those voters wouldn't have left so readily.

Erm..... yes they do. Plenty. Not least the entire Jewish population. And with good reason.

What good reason? Come on, that's a serious accusation.

[url= https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/amp.theguardian.com/books/2016/sep/13/the-lefts-jewish-problem-corbyn-israel-and-antisemitism-dave-rich-review ]It's probably all just the Daily Mail[/url]

"What good reason?"

He hates Isreal and supports the Arabs in their (perhaps legitimate) desire to drive the Israeli Jews into the sea. That might not make you anti-Semetic but it probably isn't going to win the Jewish Vote over.

Given the modern habit of describing hatred of a country as racism I suspect he is racist.

But yeah, I don't think he meets my personal definition of racist. (Unlike Diane Abbot who is openly racist.)

As for pro terrorist, it was John MacDonald who is on record as approving of terrorism as a method of achieving political aims, not Corbyn. I think the case against Corbyn on that front is a bit weak - but he has been on rallies with Terrorists which might raise doubts in some people's minds.

Personally I wouldn't relish going into a general election having to explain day after day the crazy stuff these people have been spouting for decades - and I doubt they do either. They're gonna get crucified.

I love the fact that he's trying to blame Bliar - No Jeremy, you lost & you need to man up!

Are the Corbyn haters going to deny and rewrite 30 years of history where he's on record, or regurgitate a bunch of Daily Mail and Scum headlines?

That's exactly what they are doing. Have you missed all Jamba's posts?

[quote=binners ]It's probably all just the Daily Mail

I noted the guardian never opened those articles* [ mainly cohens]for comment and the DM would be proud of this sort of tripe

Unfortunately for Britain, representatives of the darkest left factions control Labour and much of the trade union movement, and dominate the intelligentsia.

Zionism is the nationalist belief that the Jews should have a homeland

its perfectly possible to be anti zionist in the modern context and pro Zionism in the historical context.

Its also entirely impossible to argue that the removal of the scourge of racism has been anything other than campaign led by the left and opposed [ still] by those on the right of the spectrum- of course not all of them.

That they can get a lefty like binners to parrot out this drivel shows either how effective it is or how gullible some are.

* probably scared f anti semitism eh rather than everyone pointing out it was complete BS

I wish i had gone back and read this first

Erm..... yes they do. Plenty. Not least the entire Jewish population. And with good reason.

self evidently its not every single Jew in the world everywhere who thinks this but they do seem as suscptible to newspeak as you
FROWNS

Corbyn and labour are many things why go to the trouble of making up anti semitism?
[img] [/img]