Forum menu
Well apparently they are also now heartily sick of the glorious leaders endless procrastination, meetings that go on for days with no resolution, the total failure to be able to make a decision on policy, and just being absolutely useless.
I'm a fan of Corbyn's point of view and constructive approach to problem solving rather than political mud slinging. However it's becoming increasingly clear that despite the positives, he's not the right person for the job. Given time, enough PLP members should realise this, you'd think, and there can be another leadership challenge.
Is there any polling on support within the party membership? Weren't the £3 members signed up for a year, meaning they'll lapse soon?
I'm a fan of Corbyn's point of view and constructive approach to problem solving
not bothering to solve them is indeed a unique approach, but I'm not sure how constructive it is Molls? 😆
Most politicians are "I'M RIGHT YOU'RE WRONG LA LA LA"
I'm a fan of the principle of hearing all sides and forming a consensus*. Not fashionable in politics today is it?
* not that Corbyn is necessarily pro-active enough to do this, but I think it's his general approach.
[img] 
:large[/img]
This is a Political Sketch Writer, but in this case he is making a very strong point, not sure all the blame can be laid at JC's door - but he certainly has not helped.
Dont blame the puppet, blame the puppet masters?
(Cuckoo)
not sure all the blame can be laid at JC's door
Come on now. That sort of madness does not belong on this thread. EVERYTHING, from brexit, Donald Trump, to the shit weather is Jeremy Corbyn's fault. He tried to fix it by buying a new suit and going on telly more, but nothing will keep this lot happy.
The "leader" set's the tone, makes key decisions, inspires and well ... leads. Corbyn either does these badly or not at all. Numerous MPs have said the same thing, when faced with a complicated issue or conflicting demands his head goes down and he simply does nothing.
In the way that the Tories would rather the NHS is out of the geadlines (as they achieved in 2015 GE by promising £8bn to Labour's £2bn) Labour need immigration and Brexit to dissapear and the news to be about something they have a coherent policy on. What that is I couldn't tell you.
Binners - do you actually follow what Corbyn says? - I have seen several very good statements from him over leaving the EU.
Binners probably follows it in the same way as the Guardian columnists:
It all doomed Corbyn to a pretty miserable session, in which he got some of his facts wrong and in which May was able to treat him with a contempt that isn’t pretty, but which accurately reflected the fact that, [b]when it comes to Brexit, she knows what she wants and Corbyn doesn’t really know what he wants. [/b]And it showed.
He has been found wanting yet again on this key issue.
I have seen several very good statements from him over leaving the EU.
The problem is those statements contradict each other 8)
He really does just seem to say the first thing that comes into his head.
we are talking about Jezza not Trump, Jambas...
...oh, hang on, your correct 😀
Tristram Hunt also laying a size 11 in on the poor old fella - still what does he know, wasn't he a Blai***te (avoids swear filter)?
Where people get their news has a big effect on their perception of people...
as such we have "people dont like corbyn based on what they have read in right-wing media" shocking...
Also how is someone being in charge because a big majority of members of the parted voting for them a bad thing?
makes much more sense than someone putting their hand up and saying "Id like daves old job" and everyone else backing out so we end up with a PM nobody (not even the tories) voted for
as such we have "people dont like corbyn based on what they have read in right-wing media" shocking...Also how is someone being in charge because a big majority of members of the parted voting for them a bad thing?
Unfortunately he doesn't give them anything else to write about, no actual leading or direction, policy on the hoof as it were.
It's great so many people joined a political party to vote for him, question is did they join the right party or just hijack somebody else's?
question is did they join the right party or just hijack somebody else's?
I think they did, their blairites were the ones that hijacked it for a while
That could be called progress though. Still they are keeping him in a job, just a shame nobody is really being leader of the opposition at the moment. Still the momentum mob are happy even if nobody else is.
Where people get their news has a big effect on their perception of people...as such we have "people dont like corbyn based on what they have read in right-wing media" shocking...
That is right - if you close your eyes and ears and shout !No Pasaran! 3 times, yo find out he has a secret well of competence that simply doesn't get reported in the press, who would rather quote what he has said and what he has done.
Damn those dirty, [s]right-wing[/s] chosen by the people, in a free market, press
80% of the press in this country is right to far right in its outlook. ONly the morning star is leftwing
Aye comrade!
But no one forces anyone to buy a particular outlet's news ( except of course the BBC ). So that would suggest, given your figures that 80% of the people who want to read the news want to do so from a conservative viewpoint.
Long may it continue.
80% of the press in this country is right to far right in its outlook. ONly the morning star is leftwing
And judging by the polls/election results so are the people.
You can only complain about the media so much, the trumpette seemed to do OK without them.
The one major problem is he is not a leader. That is nothing about policy, viewpoint etc. He just doesn't know how to lead, get his points across or lead a party. Whine, moan and complain about the media all you want but it still doesn't change what he is.
I have seen several very good statements from him over leaving the EU.
He was meant to be a remainer though 😉
Odd that a convtiction (sic) politician cannot say what he really thinks about immigration because he needs to pander the large percentage of Xenophobes whose vote he needs. That's some convtiction....
Until they make their minds up on FoM they cannot add any value to the debate.
The one major problem is he is not a leader.
I think the major problem with him is that he is just not very bright. He doesn't seem to grasp the details of the situation and he doesn't think on his feet. To be outwitted by a dullard like May really takes some doing.
He was meant to be a remainer though
An old dinosaur, out of touch, desperate to re-fight long-lost battles, unable to accept reality - yep - he's a remainer.
😉
Latest polling shows that the Tories are now more trusted on the NHS than labour. The one solitary remaining area where labour ALWAYS polls ahead of the Tories is no more. Way to go Jezza!! Thats some achievement, given the present relentless 'Crisis in the NHS' headlines.
It can surely only be down to the fact that in the vast majority of peoples eyes the present labour 'leadership' couldn't be trusted to run a bath efficiently, or effectively. They just exude an air of muddled incompetence, or total irrelevance, in pretty much every area.
Surely not. The masses wil join the messiah following the rally call on ****ter
Labour created the NHS to care for us all – now it’s time to #CarefortheNHS. Join an event near you this Saturday ? labour.org.uk/nhs
Get some banners binners and join the crusade
cranberry 🙂
Binners in fairness to Corbyn I think the Tories where ahead on the NHS at 2015 GE, when you are aeen as incompetant on the Economy it flows through to everything else.
I read about Angela Rayner's speech, "Ideology never put food on my table" .... indeed and being in opposition you can achieve very little
They just exude an air of muddled incompetence, or total irrelevance, in pretty much every area.
I don't disagree, yet labour party MPs can't find anyone who can beat him. That's the real problem. I'm interested in what they and their ilk are doing to resolve this other than just whining from the sidelines or even worse buggering off to find new jobs.
I don't disagree, yet labour party MPs can't find anyone who can beat him. That's the real problem.
Agreed. Its a sad state of affairs.
@dazh not with the new rules, no. You have a group of committed activists dictating the direction of the party. I'd be willing to bet the Sunderland Leave voters would think McDonnell's Marxism is for the nutters. You can see that Momentum are now insisting you join Labour, this is a clear responce to the entryists / Cuckoo brigade.
Sadly for Labour this has worked out even worse (/better) that we thought. I thought it would be lefty fun and games until May Scottish elections and then he'd be kicked out.
tjagain - Member
80% of the press in this country is right to far right in its outlook. ONly the morning star is leftwing
Is that the morning star that celebrated the "liberation" of Aleppo a few weeks ago?
If thats an honest representation of what you consider left then I've just realised that I'm right wing for the first time in my life.
not with the new rules, no. You have a group of committed activists dictating the direction of the party.
Rubbish. The power of the trots is vastly over-estimated, and momentum aren't even affiliated so how can they 'dictate direction' (aside from the fact that they're more interested in arguing amongst themselves about voting procedures)? This is an easy and convenient excuse for the PLP and others who still refuse to admit and address the real problem.
Rubbish. The power of the trots is vastly over-estimated, and momentum aren't even affiliated so how can they 'dictate direction' (aside from the fact that they're more interested in arguing amongst themselves about voting procedures)?
Why? they managed to put their man in charge, they don't need to influence people.
This is an easy and convenient excuse for the PLP and others who still refuse to admit and address the real problem.
So what is the real problem?
Get some banners binners
Easy for you to say 🙂
Well the morning star is a step up from WingsoverScotland!
Indeed what is the "real" problem?
[url= http://newsthump.com/2017/01/19/bbc-found-to-have-misrepresented-jeremy-corbyn-as-competent-opposition-leader/ ]BBC found to have ‘misrepresented’ Jeremy Corbyn as competent opposition leader[/url]
Yawn momentum trots etc its bullshit. Labour party members voted in droves for Corbyn because he was the best candidate. The vast majority of Labour members have nothing to do with momentum.
Cranberry 😀
Labour party members voted in droves for Corbyn because he was the best candidate.
Oops
abour party members voted in droves for Corbyn because he was the best candidate.
😆 😆 😆
To be fair the Tories once put IDS in charge, so picking dreadful leaders isn't unique to Labour.
Thm the problem with Labour is that the PLP think the only way to get power is to stand right next to theTories and try to look prettier.
Labour Party members do not want this. Also its become an open goal for the Tories who can just say for example "yes but there is less prvatisation of the NHS now than under Labour and Labour also ****ed the economy".
and Howard and Hague (too early).....
abour party members voted in droves for Corbyn because he was the best candidate.
Care to explain why?
Leadership Qualities
Proven Strategic thinking
Solid reasoning
Communication skills
Want to score him out of 10?
(examples please)
Labour party members voted in droves for Corbyn because he was the best candidate.
They voted for him not because he was the best, but because he was the only one who presented a platform which didn't pander to racism, didn't propose moving further to the right, didn't propose more of the failed 1990s new labour solutions, and who didn't represent the careerist, principle free vacuum that the other candidates displayed in droves. The fact that he was the candidate who acted as the vessel for all this pent up resentment was a pure accident, and a result of their own hubris. If labour MPs really want to beat him, they need to first beat him fairly rather than trying to suppress leftwing candidates and supporters, and secondly find someone who can address the points above who is an actual leader. I find it astonishing TBH that they can't do that.
Thm the problem with Labour is that the PLP think the only way to get power is to stand right next to theTories and try to look prettier.
And they would be (largely) right = we do centrist politics in the UK. Move too far away from the voters (remember them) and you are destined to be merely a side show
The other problem with the PLP is that they want an effective leader - cant blame them really.
Labour party members voted in droves for Corbyn because he was the best candidate.
the fact of the matter is that under the present electoral system Corbyn would be re-elected again tomorrow despite how utterly useless he is, and the glaringly obvious fact that he's about to lead the party to its greatest ever defeat, as he has already delivered it into political irrelevance
Why? Because 'the party' has been invaded and colonised by nutters of various sorts. And just like when an antisocial family move into a street and start dumping washing machines, half-built cars on bricks, and piss-soaked mattresses on the front lawn, then start having all night parties, sat out the front drinking, having fires, everyone else moves out. Pronto!
This is what the corbynites are. They're the piss-sodded mattresses, the rusty washing machines, the burning pallets, and the cars on bricks.
I went to a Momentum meeting to see for myself. They're all mental! Absolutely unhinged. A rag tag bunch of misfits you'd cross the street to avoid. And definitely move house if they were your neighbours.
Militant ranting factional lefties, stuck in the 1970's (piss-sodden mattress), bedwetting little victims, totally unable to cope with modern life (car on bricks), mad, paranoid conspiracy theorists (burning pallets), and then the majority.... your full on yoghurt-knitting, free-range, organic, vegan, lesbian, multicultural, ban the bomb, disband the armed forcer, nationalise all businesses, rail against everything, because capitalism is evil brigade (rusty washing machine).
These people, and their bonkers opinions and beliefs, are not only abhorrent to most 'normal' people, they are now dictating labour policy
The general voting population are now the rest of the street, who are spending their evenings on Right Move, looking to get the **** out of there fast
The labour party is finished! Over! In its place is 22 Shit Street....
[img] 
[/img]
the failed 1990s new labour solutions
therein lies the conundrum - define failure!!
[img] 
?w=540&ssl=1[/img]
[img] 
[/img]
Yawn. Your metaphor doesn't make sense and your facts dont stack up.
Corbyn won with old members new members etc.
My dad had had enough of Corbyn thought he had no chance in a G.E- he wanted to vote for Owen Smith but after seeing the debate on QT he couldn't. Corbyn was the better candidate.
If Corbo is rubbish the rest of them are worse.
therein lies the conundrum - define failure!!
Two election defeats?
(Corbyn has aged alot since being elected looking at the above pic and him recently in interviews.)
Yawn. Your metaphor doesn't make sense and your facts dont stack up.
It does, and they do.
Thm the problem with Labour is that the PLP think the only way to get power is to stand right next to theTories and try to look prettier.
Yeah, bollocks to that and the electoral victories it delivered, and the infinitely better lives it delivered to so many people than they'd have had under 13 years of Tory rule, eh? ****ing Balirites!!!
are we talking about the same time?
Lost the last 2 gen elecs binners.
Oh and your metaphor doesn't make sense and your facts dont stack up so ner.
If Corbo is rubbish the rest of them are worse.
Exactly. I voted for Corbyn first time around. This was based on him being closer to my values than the others (which to me were close to Tory)
However, I didn't think he would be a great leader but though the shake up would be good and then a person better positioned as leader could come in the aftermath.
That is the problem, where are the better people?
I also don't see the point of a centrist Labour party to appeal to voters. If voters wanted that they could vote Liberal couldn't they?
The challenge is getting the people who would be better off under Labour to actually realise it.
where are the better people?
Are they the ones with [s]scab[/s] Blairite tattooed on their forehead?
How about the shadow cabinet?
How about that lady that keeps sending emails to Jezza? She seems pretty switched on
The challenge is getting the people who would be better off under Labour to actually realise it.
The challenge is trying to explain how you are going to achieve this, presenting credible policy, demonstrating how and convincing people how they will be better off
are we talking about the same time?
I'm talking about the last two elections obviously. Both fought on pretty much the same new labour strategy as TB's victories, and both lost. The second one even after the tories failed on pretty much everything they promised in 2010. New Labour clearly doesn't work without TB.
The challenge is trying to explain how you are going to achieve this, presenting credible policy, demonstrating how and convincing people how they will be better off
Yes, a better version of what I was trying to say.
Care to explain why?
Leadership Qualities
Proven Strategic thinking
Solid reasoning
Communication skills
Want to score him out of 10?
(examples please)
How is everyone's homework going?
Leadership Qualities
Proven Strategic thinking
Solid reasoning
Communication skills
Policies that the membership actually support?
where are the better people?
They're bright people. They know that to stand against Corbyn is totally pointless. Because the 'electorate' they have to win over can't be won over because they're all insane (see post above), and living on another planet.
So they're either keeping their heads down (note the tumbleweed blowing across the labour benches when Jezza needs support), so as not to be associated with the glorious leaders electorally repellent 'brand', or they've just given up, and are buggering off to do something less soul-destroyingly futile instead
unfortunately, we're all the worse off for this, for so many reasons. Not least as an uber-right wing tory party, mad on Brexit cool aid, marches us off to god only knows where, all completely unopposed
Lets be honest... even the unhinged, clueless lefties around the glorious leader don't exactly look like they're enjoying 'The Revolution' do they?
Policies that the [s]membership[/s] electorate actually support?
FTFY.
MikeSmith he beats the other candidates in all those categories.
Just to qualify he beat all the other candidates soundly in those categories at the time of the leadership election. I'm not going to argue leadership now!
Too right comrade!! All hail Reg!
[img] 
[/img]
Anyway... what candidates? Just to repeat....
[i]They're bright people. They know that to stand against Corbyn is totally pointless. Because the 'electorate' they have to win over can't be won over because they're all insane (see post above), and living on another planet.[/i]
FTFY.
And we're back to the 'winning is all that counts' debate. You need both the membership, and the electorate to support the policies. The membership are the people who do the legwork and give the party it's foundation. If they don't agree with the party's policies, the electorate are not going to vote in the numbers required to win. A party founded on democratic principles with no members is not a party.
ctk - Member
MikeSmith he beats the other candidates in all those categories.
Doesn't mean his is any good does it, like asking if you want to be shot in the knees or elbows
Read my last few posts Mike you're agreeing with me.
Policies that the membership actually support?
Yes, but as binners has, very poetically, pointed out - the members are morons.
Yep, morons.
So, do you have the official opposition listening to the country and trying to gain power and steer policies towards the left of centre, or do you have the [b]ex-[/b]opposition as they now are, representing 500,000 [Mod edit] being a total irrelevance ?
Most of the voters, and therefore, votes are clustered around "X"
[img] 
[/img]
Tony, for all his faults, realised that you cannot gain power and lead from the edges. This should not be rocket science to anyone with a couple of brain cells to rub together.
Labour is currently clustered around a complete f***up.
The membership are the people who do the legwork and give the party it's foundation.
Speaking to my local labour councillors, which I do regularly, nobody has actually seen any of these new 'members'. They joined, voted for Corbyn, and thats it. Other than that, they are not active in the party in any way. They certainly don't do any 'legwork' or give the party anything at all.
Though I believe that in certain constituencies they are active. In that they're trying to deselect any candidate who might be running the risk of appealing to a wider electorate, and not just a little cabal of leftie headbbangers
Meanwhile the saner members of the party, who actually inhabit planet earth, and did actually used to do said 'legwork' are leaving in droves
New Labour clearly doesn't work without TB.
It gets worse doesn't it....
A party founded on democratic principles with no members is not a party.
A party with few voters is an irrelevance
And a party in a brewery with no piss up is a pretty poor party!
Meanwhile the saner members of the party, who actually inhabit planet earth, are leaving in droves
History repeats itself
I thought the new members had taken over everything?
the members are morons.
All half a million of them? Yes, of course they are 🙄
nobody has actually seen any of these new 'members'
Hardly a surprise if the attitude above is typical of average local labour party activists? Has the labour party actually considered reaching out to these new members in an effort to utilise all these new ideas and energy?
And we're back to the 'winning is all that counts' debate. You need both the membership, and the electorate to support the policies. The membership are the people who do the legwork and give the party it's foundation.
No.
In order to get power, to change things in the way that you think is better you need the electorate.
Votes
Full stop.
The Conservatives had fewer members in 2014, they won the election in 2015:
[img] 
[/img]
I thought the new members had taken over everything?
Nope...... just the votes in leadership elections
Most of the voters, and therefore, votes are clustered around "X"
What is this supposed to represent? A distribution of what?
Surely Corbyn's job is a) to see what's wrong, b) to work out how to fix it, and c) get the electorate to agree, whatever their amount of x-ness. He may or may not have done a) and b) - he has done a spectacularly bad job of c)
Binners the new members are to be seen on facebook, Twiter etc. The Americans have a great pejorative term for them ... SJW .. Social Justice Warriors. Changing the world (cough) one "like" at a time.
All half a million of them? Yes, of course they are
Well, they are the ones that have utterly destroyed what was a massively impressive vote winning organisation - the first time in history that Labour had won a 2nd election in a row ( usually they screw up so badly in the first term that people drop them like a shitty stick ).
Labour won 3 times in a row. Unprecedented. It utterly dominated the middle ground ( see graph above ).
The conservatives couldn't touch them. Then Labour returned, slowly to its un-electable comfort zone under Comrade Broon. It has now passed that and gone into a point of being a joke, out the other side again and into utter irrelevance.
All done by giving the [Mod edit] and some mischievous Conservatives a say over who should "lead" the party.
Has the labour party actually considered reaching out to these new members in an effort to utilise all these new ideas and energy?
What? Start an online petition? 😆
c) get the electorate to agree
In Corbynistan Party tells you.
🙂
In Corbynistan Party tells you.
I'm sure that made sense in your head, but ...