Jeremy Corbyn

If they keep Corbyn off the ballot, then 160,000 people who've joined since September 2015 will be rethinking their party membership.

While Corbyn doesn't come across as being terribly charismatic, there's been a massive surge in people who see the left as offering a solution to a great many problems that Thatcherism can't answer.

If they keep Corbyn off the ballot, then 160,000 people who've joined since September 2015 will be rethinking their [s]party membership[/s] £3.

So what ?

I suspect the 160,000 are not £48 party members but £3 "rent-a-vote's"

Do we think they'll try and keep Corbyn off the ballot ? Seems a nuclear option so I say no.

Well to be precise they will require him to be nominated, which may amount to the same thing. It seems to be their only chance of success so I think they will try, but the rules look pretty clear to me, he doesn't need to be nominated.

They'd need to change the rules, and I'm not sure they've even got the necessary majority on the NEC to do that. Unions were apparently flying delegates back from their 5-star villas to make sure.

If they keep Corbyn off the ballot, then 160,000 people who've joined since September 2015 will be rethinking their party membership.

I doubt they're members. They're Ernie and his three quid communists, and should **** off and form their own party if they're so convinced of their electoral appeal. Rather than re-run the Militant Tendancy disaster of the 80's all over again. Because the results will be the same. Endless Tory rule, allowed to do what it wants, unopposed. We've even got the female PM in place ready.

Because one things for bloody sure. In all these chancers, lining up behind Corbyn, with their own dubious hard left agendas there will be a fair old amount of people like this. Seriously.... even Ernie must be honest in asking is this what we want to return too....

[img] [/img]

Bargain-bin, rabble-rousing, posturing demagogues with their self-glorifying, bollocks-to-everyone agendas? Seriously? Because thats where it'll end

If they use the word 'Members' then it can't refer to the £3ers - they are 'Supporters' afaik

You'd think he has to be, and then when he wins again all hell breaks loose. All the while the Tories are un-opposed.

In fact if you were a radical PM now is a perfect time to smash through as many controversial policies as possible the next election is still far away and opposition at its weakest.

Here's an article (no doubt partial, but interesting nevertheless) on how Angela Eagle got to be elected:

http://wire.novaramedia.com/2016/07/how-angela-eagle-got-to-be-mp-for-wallasey/

and [b]motives[/b]

@thm....oh the irony... 😀

In all these chancers, lining up behind Corbyn, with their own dubious hard left agendas there will be a fair old amount of people like this.

I keep seeing this written, yet I'm not aware of what makes Corbyn "hard left".

@binners...think you need to research the recent history of UK politics..start by looking at the last century for a start...or visit the People's Museum in Liverpool...maybe you'll realise it's you who is in the wrong party...

He'll walk the Manchester mayoral elections, I imagine he'll do a really good job, then he's ready to take over the leadership when labour goes down to its heaviest ever electoral defeat at the next GE.

Binners for a close labour party politics you have this wrong. Burnham is seen as a scouser he'll be lucky to get to a run off against the agreed placeman Tony Lloyd

His other problem is that he has flip-flop ed too much, and frankly he comes across a bit "nice but dim Tim"

.maybe you'll realise it's you who is in the wrong party.

Why? Because I don't fancy a return to the 1970's and 80's.

Well if thats what the labour party 'members' want, then good luck with that. Electoral oblivion beckons. Hopefully there is a decent electable centre left/social democratic party that can emerge from the wreckage of this obvious folly then eh?

I keep seeing this written, yet I'm not aware of what makes Corbyn "hard left".

Hardly a surprise as he's not. He's pretty middle of the road social democratic labour, think Neil Kinnock without the megalomania. There's a lot of rubbish being talked about Corbyn on both sides. He's caught in the middle of a war between members (real ones, not the fictional socialist worker element) and careerist MPs. The members want their party to win on a left of centre platform, the MPs want to win on whatever platform will get them there quickest, most probably a rightwing one. That's about it really. I'm sure Corbyn is looking forward to going back to his allotment.

I didn't think that JC's Labour party was about winning elections - 'winning' is just for the Westminster elite.

Do we think they'll try and keep Corbyn off the ballot ? Seems a [b]nuclear option [/b]so I say no.

There's **** all chance of them managing to reach any sort of agreement amongst themselves on that then 😆

Binners for a close labour party politics you have this wrong. Burnham is seen as a scouser he'll be lucky to get to a run off against the agreed placeman Tony Lloyd

If someone as useless and corrupt as Tony Lloyd gets an unopposed run at Mayor of Manchester then that in itself tells us all we need to know about the state of the Labour Party at present.

Momentum has re-created the toxic Labour Party of the 1980's

Trouble with winning, is that you then have to take actual responsibility and often for tough decisions. Ask the LDs or the BSers now!!!

It's all very week moaning, but doing something about it is so much harder.

EdenV, feel free to answer the question at your leisure.

fascists just took over the tory party

Would appear to be "Fox news level of analysis".

Corbyn is to the left of Kinnock. That's evident by the fact Corbyn supported Benn against Kinnock in the 1988 leadership contest.

Would appear to be "Fox news level of analysis".

[img] [/img]

and it was a question anyway

of course they haven't but we can all makes BS analysis based on our political bias or we can discuss the actual facts/reality.

Ah! I see!

(I've run out of coffee. Long morning. )

Isn't the talk of how far left he is all fairly academic anyway, when the fundamental problem is one of competence?

As far as landing blows on the government, and putting the brakes on Tory policies, while holding them to account, he's (somewhat unbelievably) managed to make his predecessor look like a towering political colossus.

He's absolutely bloody hopeless!!! Thats the bottom line! The Tory's will have had an absolute nightmare over a particular issue, say the NHS, and he'll just waffle through PMQ's (doing his tragic radio chat show host routine) and completely fail to even mention it. Week in, week out.

Its difficult to see what the point of him is. Other than to do what he did last week and make some pointless speech at a miners welfare club in the North East, making vague lefty noises, and calling everyone Comrade. Thats his natural territory. Its certainly not at the despatch box in the houses of parliament. As Leader of Her Majesties Opposition, he's just crap at it!

Isn't the talk of how far left he is all fairly academic anyway, when the fundamental problem is one of competency?

Binners: "he's a raging Trot"
Everyone else: "evidence please"
Binners: "don't care anyway"

Isn't the talk of how far left he is all fairly academic anyway, when the fundamental problem is one of competence?

As far as landing blows on the government, and putting the brakes on Tory policies, while holding them to account, he's (somewhat unbelievably) managed to make his predecessor look like a towering political colossus.

However you wish to dress this up the PLP is clearly ignoring the party democracy and clearly trying to usurp and replace the current leader preferably without even letting him stand. they do this whilst they know he will win the vote if "they" let him stand

In this situation to blame the democratic choice of the party for the troubles is a little short sighted
The PLP need to respect democracy or **** off and start a new Blairite party where you can do their logos and stuff.

@thm...I want to write I don't understand your question but I'll appear a dunce.. 😀

My comments re motives wasn't supposed to have any hidden meaning..just a simple dictionary definition. I.e. Political parties are communities of interest with (hopefully) similar ideologies etc. However, currently political parties are all fighting for the indefinable 'electable middle grounnd' which means their rhetoric will not necessarily match their collective ideas...hence it comes unravelled post elections and we see U-turn galore and public outrage at the pre-elecetion statements that don't materiLise - all because when they are in power they work to their collective interests and ideologies which aren't the same as the 'electable middle ground' statements they made to win/gain the power...

You should chill out on the Corbyn attacks, Binners. Not really a good look. You're arguing against, what you see as common room politics, but acting like an angry student. 😆

The PLP need to respect democracy or **** off and start a new Blairite party where you can do their logos and stuff.

Actually, I think that's exactly what should happen. Currently, I see no way in which the wishes of the membership, PLP and wider electorate can be reconciled.

Its difficult to see what the point of him is.

I'd have thought that's pretty obvious:

Re-align the party behind a left of centre agenda? Yes
Regain democratic control of the party from the Blairite dictatorship? Yes
Represent the views of normal people (both working and middle class) who have been disenfranchised by neo-liberalism? Yes
Return the focus of politics to policy instead of short term media management? Yes
Become Prime Minister? Probably not.

I doubt the last one was ever on his radar. It says more about his enemies that they've done everything they can to prevent the other points, and the mess the party is in now is more to do with that than him not being PM material.

Applauds Daz
Its pretty much spot on

the party has given the blairites a bloody nose and they have dealt with this by undermining the wishes of the party, not supporting the leader. plotting against him and then trying to stop him standing in an election THEY KNOW HE WILL WIN.

The MP's are acting like they can ignore the views of the party they represent. they cannot and they should and must be held to democratic account even if the result is against what they wish.

plotting against him and then trying to stop him standing in an election THEY KNOW HE WILL WIN.

The MPs _KNOW_ that Corbyn will win the next general election and they are trying to stop him regardless??

Bastards!

Oh, hang on you didn't mean THAT sort of election, did you? You meant the bunch of argumentalists in a draughty hall desperately virtue signalling, whilst doing absolutely nothing of any importance, didn't you.

[img] [/img]

You should chill out on the Corbyn attacks, Binners. Not really a good look. You're arguing against, what you see as common room politics, but acting like an angry student.

I thought he was giving a pretty fair assessment.

THEY KNOW HE WILL WIN

[img] [/img]

[img] [/img]

I've got to say I don't think Binners was too far off the mark.

I'm fairly sympathetic to Corbyns positions but as leader of the opposition he's been hopeless. The Tories have left gaping holes to attack and he's not gone after them. It's hard to think of a better time to have been a leader of the opposition for a while but not a peep. He doesn't need to go in tearing up trees, a measured approach pointing out the inconsistencies, errors and problems would have worked, but there's nothing.

The most vocal thing about him is his Facebook page which come across as a whiney 6th former. Even recently it was pointing out all the positives that labour have had recently, great, but he should be shouting them from the rooftops.

@turnerguy..stranger things have happend. We do have a ruling party that convinced poor voters to vote for them, and then when life didn't get better for those voters they managed to convince the voter it wasn't their policies that was the issue but membership of the EU instead....

Just to confirm Binners point on Corbyns' website, when you look at the list of priorities the most recent post in International is from May. You'd rather think that some International events since May have happened and he has an opinion on them. Yet on Twitter most of the last 24 hours is photos from the Durham Miners' Gala.

Seriously his priority is a completely dead industry rather than discussing the future of the UKs relationship with the EU and rest of the world 😯

Edit: Just spotted a good few days ago on Twitter he did say something about not leaving the EU negotiations to the Tories, but for some reason it isn't on his website.

Seriously his priority is a completely dead industry rather than discussing the future of the UKs relationship with the EU and rest of the world

Making sure he has the traditional labour vote solid...

god bless him...

Corbyn hasn't realigned the party at all. The only major vote he has tried to influence was Syria intervention and he was roundly defeated. The Shadow Cabinet has resigned pretty much en-mass and he now stands isolated part from McDonnel and Abbott having achieved less than zero (unless you count the Leave victory as his achievement 😉 )

NEC going on now, I'll wager he's told he must get 51 MP/MEPs ..

The Tories have left gaping holes to attack and he's not gone after them. It's hard to think of a better time to have been a leader of the opposition for a while but not a peep.

I'm happy to accept that he's been less than effective, but until he gets a chance to oppose the tories with a united party behind him and a labour-supporting media who are on-message, we'll never really know how competent he is or could have been.

You'd rather think that some International events since May have happened and he has an opinion on them. Yet on Twitter most of the last 24 hours is photos from the Durham Miners' Gala.

Don't be ridiculous, twitter is about stuff that's happened in the last few hours, not a couple of months ago.

Do we think they'll try and keep Corbyn off the ballot ? Seems a nuclear option so I say no

NEC going on now, I'll wager he's told he must get 51 MP/MEPs ..

Always good to hedge one's bets.

Corbyn hasn't realigned the party at all.

Really? You surprise me. I'd have thought 9 months would have been plenty time to do that, especially with all his MPs pulling for him.

, but until he gets a chance to oppose the tories with a united party behind him and a labour-supporting media who are on-message, we'll never really know how competent he is or could have been.

TBF he gets very good press in the Morning Star.

THEY KNOW HE WILL WIN

WOW that is pretty out of touch with the topic
By all means be a tory but don't ignore the actual facts just because you hate him.

I'm happy to accept that he's been less than effective, but until he gets a chance to oppose the tories with a united party behind him and a labour-supporting media who are on-message, we'll never really know how competent he is or could have been.