Jeremy Corbyn

He obviously had some more pressing, important things to do

Whatever he did or didn't do was evidently more effective than what Cam the Ham did, so I'm not really sure why you aren't directing your sweary CAPITALS at him instead ?

You missed the other memo too?

Dave immediately resigned.

And at the moment he actually has considerably more credibility than the bearded one, on account of him taking the time to actually bloody turn up and put a shift in!

Why would Corbyn turn up to help? He's a massive EU sceptic. What did he say in June? I'd give the EU 7 out of 10! Wow!!

turn up and put a shift in!

Put a shift in doing what? Oh yes, trying to get his own bollocks out of the alligator's mouth he put them in when he called a referendum without having a good enough deal from EU. But yeah - it's Corbyn's fault, obviously.

Its not Corbyns fault Binners. You are wrong. Same percentage of Labour voters as SNP voted remain. Angela Eagle herself said "he's been working up and down the country with the energy of a 25 year old its not our fault the media are not reporting it"

Media more interested in Tory tittle tattle.

& also his Islington constituency voted massively for remain. Alan Johnson who was in charge of Remain campaign lost in his constituency, so did Tristram Hunts, Caroline Flint etc etc

Well there are a few other threads on that whole debacle. This thread is about the Non-entity who is alladgedly the leader of the Labour Party, who somewhat unbelievably has managed to make his predecessor look like a Churchillian political heavyweight

binners old chap - you are starting to sound like jamba with a spell-checker 🙂

The difference is that Jammers will be enjoying seeing the pathetic, irrelevent state of the present Labour Party. I assure you that I most definitely am not!

What's the end game here ?

Jezza continues in post. General election called by new Tory leader in 3-4 months time. Labour with current MPs get wiped out. New Jezza-compatible candidates get selected to fight the next election in 2011. Also get wiped out.

Or something else ? 🙂

What's the end game here ?

According to the news, there is an attempt to compromise with Corbyn by promising to keep some of his policy points in return for him standing down. Which could work out well - Corbyn gets to peg the party slightly more left, the PLP get a more centrist leader.

Like that's going to work 🙂

Seems to be the best idea so far!

So it's a personality contest ? We'll implement* your policies but errr, it can't be you who does it.

* honest injun, cross heart and hope to die.

binners - Member
Well there are a few other threads on that whole debacle. This thread is about the Non-entity who is allegedly the leader of the Labour Party, who somewhat unbelievably has managed to make his predecessor look like a Churchillian political heavyweight

+ Lots, what is needed now is a strong opposition

So it's a personality contest ?

Of course it is!

a) It's always a personality contest, and

b) in this particular case, people are ignoring the actual policies and things he says in favour of constant mis-reporting and character assasination.

Loving Binners work... On the last page, Corbyn was emulating Putin. On this page he's a political nonentity. It's almost like he doesn't entirely believe what he says!

molgrips - Member

According to the news, there is an attempt to compromise with Corbyn by promising to keep some of his policy points in return for him standing down.

"Hi, remember us? We stabbed you in the back for being too left wing? And now we're all too cowardly to run against you for leadership. Anyway, hows about you resign, and we'll definitely implement some of the policies that we flatly refused to progress when you were leader. Honest."

The Corbyn gamble;

That the majority of Labour MPs have been voted into office [i]despite[/i] not [i]because[/i] they are right leaning Labour lite. Because of our quasi-democratic FPTP system, an AWFUL lot of people on both sides of the political spectrum definitely vote for the candidate most likely to get in and contribute to a possible majority, that isn't the opposite of their beliefs rather than the candidate that actually represents their views. Thus we end up with a two party system whereby BOTH parties ideologies can drift fairly spectacularly away from the general population. Hence we see Labours annihilation in Scotland when a third option became available that could deliver for the public regardless of the fact they won't technically deliver a majority in Westminster. This would also explain the extraordinary popularity of Corbyn when he emerged; he represented something completely different, socially responsible, decent and principled. I know plenty of non-lefty (including myself) types who excitedly got behind Corbyn, it's predominantly been the wealthy, more mercenary characters in my social circles that have been voraciously anti-Corbyn. Oh and anyone ex military or with family in the military; he doesn't wash well with that group of people either, for fairly obvious reasons, swords are far more exciting than ploughshares.

I've watched in a kind of resigned and weary state of non surprise as Corbyn has completely failed to win over the PLP or the media. I've been dissapointed but unsurprised that the 'everyday man on the street' has failed to look past the shitty manipulated soundbites that the press use to bash nails in his coffin. And I've been horrified and dissapointed to see the way the PLP have treated him; whilst almost inevitable, it does make me wonder 'what if' they had wholeheartedly got behind him and delivered a new option, rather than churlishly muttering and plotting to remove him behind his back.

If he's removed, I'm afraid I'll go back to what I was before; a completely disaffected voter, that neither of the conventional parties have at all appealed to, since I was old enough to vote. That's the reason that Ed's labour lost so badly; they failed miserably to offer anything actually sufficiently different to the electorate, so the 'better the devil you know' rule overwhelmingly applied.

v8 Corbyn was wholly unprepared to be leader, he's been a backbencher for 30 years with no department/ministerial role, so its no surprise he can't manage the PLP or the engage media. When you see him preaching to the converted at a Momentum rally or Stop the War he is energised and confident as that's what he's used to, that's what has gotten him elected as an MP all these years.

in this particular case, people are ignoring the actual policies and things he says in favour of constant mis-reporting and character assasination.

Because he never actually *ing says anything or reveals any policies, and even then he's not very good at doing that!

lets look at that list from the page before:

[img] [/img]

Ok, put what the newspaper says aside, and tell me whether on any one of those issues you can actually draw any conclusions on Jeremy's position on the issue?

Its laughable!

Look at what happened in the runup to the EU referendum - people elected him to Labour leader thinking he was pro-brexit on the basis of speeches like this

then he announced he was backing Remain

Then he spent all his time attacking the *ing EU

To this day, nobody sure how he actually voted!

Getting a ****ing sensible answer or even the remotest glance of policy out of the bloke is impossible, its all a game of semantics, like nailing jelly to the wall.

Now, that could be a sign of political genius if he actually gave a hint what he thought without actually saying it, The greatest politicians leave you thinking they have answered the question without doing so but what Jezza seems to do is just mouth words while white noise comes out and you're left thinking WTF!

Jamby, I partially agree. However I feel it's more that the PLP would not be managed by Corbyn. No amount of 'leadership' will help when the team refuse to consider the man their leader. He never stood a chance with that shower. Now either they go or he goes; and is clear that a) he's not going and b) he gets to keep the name, the funding and the members. The armchair pundits predict that this will consign Labour to oblivion, and they may be right; but by the same chalk, they may be wrong.

They were wrong about Brexit
They were wrong about Boris
They were wrong about Corbyn
They were wrong about Trump
They were wrong about Labour in the last GE.

In fact, they've not been right about much recently. Maybe there is a new politics after all, both good and bad.

Getting a ****ing sensible answer or even the remotest glance of policy out of the bloke is impossible, its all a game of semantics, like nailing jelly to the wall.

then he announced he was backing Remain

Then he spent all his time attacking the ****ing EU

Perfectly possible to complain about the EU and vote remain. Don't you see how?

Perfectly possible to complain about the EU and vote remain.

Agreed, but would you not say that his job as leader of the party was to actually promote party policy and get [b]other people[/b] (e.g. "natural Labour supporters" as well as just the party drones) to vote remain?

Well, yes. I would.

Getting the message across is clearly his huge weakness.

he's been a backbencher for 30 years with no department/ministerial role, so its no surprise he can't manage the PLP

v8ninety - Member
...I've watched in a kind of resigned and weary state of non surprise as Corbyn has completely failed to win over the PLP or the media...

Well seeing as the most of the media is owned by the non-resident billionaires whose interests are served by the Tories and the Blairites, that's not surprising. And seeing as the Blairites have their post parliamentary careers lined up with the same crowd, it's also not surprising that they cannot be convinced.

He has to cull out the Red Tories. The public is with him even if the chattering classes aren't.

Oh, did I forget the BBC?

Someone has done a very fine job of showing how all the positions of power in the BBC are owned by Labour Blairites, but I didn't bother to remember it because like many Scots I regard the BBC as an unreliable source of news.

We subscribe to the meme "Is that true, or did you hear it on the BBC?"

So Corbyn hasn't a chance of winning over any of that lot either.

And you know what, it doesn't matter.

It's the public that will be voting for him, and they seem to be rallying to his cause in ever greater numbers.

So how does Corbyn get anything done in parliament if the PLP response is 'says you'.

So how does Corbyn get anything done in parliament if the PLP response is 'says you'.

His acolytes set up a hashtag and a twitterstorm.

Isn't it normal practice for the opposition to not reveal any policies for the first 3 or 4 years of a parliament?

Millinand managed to stretch it out to 5. (apart from freezing energy prices)

Osbourne/Cameron definitely didn't have any policies.

So how does Corbyn get anything done in parliament if the PLP response is 'says you'.

And the PLP would be wiped out in a GE or any BE.

And the PLP would be wiped out in a GE or any BE.

(not to mention the London Mayoral result)

Actually there have been 4 mayoral elections since Corbyn became leader, Labour have won all 4.

2 out of the 4 had not previously been won Labour. There are now more Labour mayors in the UK than there were before Corbyn was leader.

Corbyn might be an electoral liability for Labour but there isn't much proof of that. In fact support for Labour appears to be increasing. There has certainly been no "meltdown".

Although I have no doubt that what the Parliamentary Labour Party have done in the last week will seriously damage Labour. And then when that becomes apparent they will of course blame Corbyn.

Anyone see McDonnell stepping in as Leader to keep the party together? Heard this aired a couple of times today from labour activists. Jeremy gets defenestrated for his brexit shithousery, placating the Blairites. Meanwhile McDonnell keeps the grassroots happy by taking the chair, and maybe the PLP would wear that for the time being?

I know he's said that this is precisely what he won't do, he's known JC for 40 years etc. but it's not hard to see circumstances changing where his hand would appear to be forced.

Anyone see McDonnell stepping in as Leader to keep the party together?

I don't think there's any chance of that at all. I am significantly closer politically to McDonnell than I am to Corbyn, but that imo makes McDonnell more divisive than Corbyn.

Corbyn is actually a very unifying person imo, even his critics call him an "honest and decent man", I can't imagine that level of generosity being shown towards McDonnell by his enemies.

And the reason Corbyn received 60% of the vote in the leadership election isn't because 60% of those who voted share the same goals as Corbyn - the Left doesn't make up 60% of the Labour Party and supporters, it was because they trusted him more than all the other candidates.

Furthermore while McDonnell comes across really quite well in TV interviews and the like, in fact much better than I expected, imo Corbyn comes across even better - I don't think any other Labour leader has the ability to come across to voters as straight talking and honest as Corbyn.

The problem isn't Corbyn. The reason the Labour Party is so divided today, or at a least section of it is at odds with the rest, is because the Parliamentary Labour Party will not accept the democratic choice of the party as a whole.

It is the PLP that is a threat to unity, not Corbyn.

Personally as things stand at the present I think the PLP coup will fail, in fact it's probably not too early to call it a "failed coup".

After one failed coup the chances of a second coup are remote to say the least. The plotters are weak. They have had 10 months to prepare for this but they still haven't chosen a leader, they have no plan, they are indecisive, and they don't know what to do next. They are making Corbyn look strong.

Three-quarters of Labour MPs are political careerists and opportunists, they will behave as you would expect politicians to behave - as the coup fizzles out they will slowly start realigning themselves and talk about the need for unity and how they must accept the wishes of party members. They will inform us that for the sake of the country and the party they will strive to work with Corbyn. Probably.

Nothing is certain in politics - no matter what some people might claim.

I reckon some people on here need to reflect on what the definition of a democratically elected leader of a political party means....JC was elected with a decent majority last year and membership is currently rising. First, that's democracy, second it shows there's a lot of people out there that don't hold the mainstream, neoliberalist viewpoint of the status quo and are looking for change... personally I think those who struggle with that should join the Lib-Dems , they're the middle ground you're seeking. People should vote for a party that shares their values and not just stick with a name because it's all they've ever done. Politics isn't football...

personally I think those who struggle with that should join the Lib-Dems , they're the middle ground you're seeking.

Well that's what people thought. Until the LibDems smelt the tempting whiff of shiny ministerial limousines. Then came the bedroom tax, increased tuition fees, more privatisation, and bombing Libya to allow Al-Qaeda to take control.

And people realised that the Clegg had simply turned the LibDems into repackaged Tories.

We all know what happened next.........political oblivion.

So much for the "middle-ground" eh?

But that's exactly the point I'm making @ernie...society is constantly changing...so LibDems have changed again and have a new leader...if people were more open-minded (not trying to be inflammatory) and assessed the here and now instead of being stuck in the past, they'd realise that current Lib Dems, for example, are more akin to their values than current Labour. Political parties are constantly changing - so individual's voting habits/allegiances should change accordingly too..

It's easy in Scotland.

We have the SNP, the Blue Tories, the Red Tories, and the Yellow Tories, and of course, the Greens. The Tory tribes are almost extinct at MP level, heading for extinction at Council level, but the d'Hondt system allows them to survive at MSP level.

Corbyn has just appointed as Shadow Secretary of State for Scotland a man who feels Scotland gets too much, so the complete extinction of Red Tories can't be far off.

(Slightly off topic) SNP are to the right of the Red Tories, lookmat what they've actually done when in power. SNP vote is cross party like the Brexit referendum, independence trumps everythin

jambalaya - Member
...SNP vote is cross party like the Brexit referendum, independence trumps everythin

Sure does.

.including common sense and well-being

teamhurtmore - Member
.including common sense and well-being

🙂

Common sense suggests that just about anything we do will improve on the results of 300 years of Westminster rule and improve our well-being - which isn't as bad as it could be because we have free access to our countryside, a properly functioning NHS, and free University education.

Epic you are a #posttruthpolticians dream. No wonder the SNP do so well if that final sentance is actually believed. Anyway this is a thread about JC ....

What's the Eagle up to? Has she landed yet?

What's the Eagle up to?

Like the other plotters who claim that Labour needs to offer strong leadership she's not sure what to do next. Should she challenge Corbyn? Or should she not because she'd probably lose?

It's a difficult one.

Perhaps she needs another 10 months to think about it ?

After all she wouldn't want to make the wrong decision.