Jeremy Corbyn

So Corbs has magnanimously said that 'most MP's will not face mandatory re-selection

Translation: Local members will decide whether they wish to reselect their local MPs. Momentum will campaign via their database for reselection of those they want kocked out to face a contest. Corbyn-istas will not face a Momentum campaign for reselection. That of course isn't mandatory re-selection its local democracy.

BTW did people see the Dispathes programme where Mkmentum activists woeking on the elect JC campaign (and being paid from those donations) have been building their Momentum database as clicking on a "I support JC" actually adds them to a Momentum database with authorisation for that well hidden in then T&C'c

I take it a moderate centrist such as yourself feels the same about the 'hard' right?

Absolutely that's just one reason why I wanted the immigration issue dealt with by the mainstream parties Labour/Lib Dem/Tory as you leave no room for more extreme left or right parties. UKIP where the only party campaigning for an EU exit, arguably they are representing the majority on that issue and as the only party with that stance the more moderate parties gave them an open goal.

I am pro welfare state, a high quality health service, anti-EU. I am pro a sustainable and responsible budget.if the economy is daffy ducked it's the poorest who suffer the most. Not rocket science. I am pro taxation of "offshore" business like Amazon/Apple/Starbucks/Facebook/Google etc there are many billions available there

Junky favouring individuals with a British passport isn't racist. We have a broad population and as ethnic minority groups are "over represented" amongst the poor favouring British citizens in terms of welfare is very far from racist. There was a stat released which showed EU citizens where twice as likely to claim in work benefits as Brits.

There was a stat released which showed EU citizens where twice as likely to claim in work benefits as Brits.

Any idea why?

Junky favouring individuals with a British passport isn't racist. We have a broad population and as ethnic minority groups are "over represented" amongst the poor favouring British citizens in terms of welfare is very far from racist. There was a stat released which showed EU citizens where twice as likely to claim in work benefits as Brits.

I would be very interest to see those stats as they conflict with the ones that I am aware of.

edit: actually checked - the "twice as likely" claim is incorrect. However, EU citizens are more likely to claim in-work benefits but less likely to claim out of work benefits

ie more likely to be in work and more likely to be in lower paid work so entitled to tax credits.

Indeed

"Translation: Local members will decide whether they wish to reselect their local MPs. Momentum will campaign via their database for reselection of those they want kocked out to face a contest. Corbyn-istas will not face a Momentum campaign for reselection. That of course isn't mandatory re-selection its local democracy."

This.

This.

well they can't have any complaints as it's exactly what they tried to do to JC, what goes around comes around 🙂

They never wanted him removed as an MP.

I see he is going to appoint a

minister for peace and disarmament

FFS - just split into two and stop the pretence. As Prescott said this morning, the Labour Party has always been spilt, but with the split so glaring, why dont they have the balls to face up to reality. The current gulf between the electables and the non-electables is too wide to bridge effectively - so GFI, be BRAVE!

"well they can't have any complaints as it's exactly what they tried to do to JC, what goes around comes around"

I didn't make any claim about whether that action was right, merely that it was going to happen.

Blame again.

I get the feeling that Labour's entire 2020 GE strategy is going to be "Yes we're going to lose and we don't expect you to vote for us but you see, it's all the other faction's fault".

Junky favouring individuals with a British passport isn't racist. We have a broad population and as ethnic minority groups are "over represented" amongst the poor favouring British citizens in terms of welfare is very far from racist.

Possibly have to leave the ECHR to get away with that one and it wont be any less racist.

jambalaya - Member
Source for the 96% of Jewish members?
Lifer, this thread and link posted by another STWer, sounds like you missed it

Ah, so what you actually mean is 92% of the 59% of the 1500 members of Jewish Labour Movement who voted. Not at all the same thing as 96% of Jewish members.

why dont they have the balls to face up to reality.

Well at least we'll get to see more of Dianne Abbot in her roles as shadow foreign secretary, education minister, Home Secretary, and minister for wominz.

You can never have too much Dianne. And she's a proven vote winner

Every cloud....

Wow! Jeremy Corbyn has 307 pages on STW. I guess it must be the beard. I bet he rides a singlespeed.

I assume it will be headed up by Miss World

😀 😀 Department will also be responsible for caring for children amd its favourite colour will be Red [s]White and Blue[/s]

Junky every single country in the world (outside the EU) favours it's own citizens ahead of others. That is not remotely racsist. On benefits our system is too generous as it's non contributory (ie you can claim benefits without years of prior contributions), if we where to chnage that therenwould be such uproar fom Brits its never going to happen.

Lifer well that read accross is more than good enough for me, did you see the following today (BBC Sunday Politics)

Lord Mitchell longtime Labour member has resigned today saying Labour is no longer a safe place for Jews or supporters of Israel. He is Jewish. He holds pretty similar views to me on the Chakrabati whitewash and the very unplesant anti-Semitic tone of the Labour Party and those surrounding Corbyn. Here is one quote

But even more than that he surrounds himself with a coterie of people who hold violent, violent anti-Israel views and allied with it they are very hostile to Jews so, in my view, they’re pretty bad guys.

Ta for the reply Jambs.
🙂

@tmh Did your hear Corbyn's comment on Marr about the impact of EU labour on wages and working conditions in general and in Lincolnshire in particular ? JC clearly didn't read your various economist links to how a huge supply of cheap Labour doesn't affect wages, I imagine he spoke to local residents and they haven't read them either. They are just commenting based upon first hand experience.

@Rusty my pleasure, I do try and have a reasoned debate. Not always successful obviously.

the very unplesant anti-Semitic tone of the Labour Party

I still have no idea what people are on about with that.

They are just commenting based upon first hand experience.

I'm sure they have first hand experience of low wages but it might not be because of labour supply.

I still have no idea what people are on about with that.

It's pretty simple. If you're not in favour of the state of Israel murdering palestinians and illegally occupying their land, or show any support for the palestinians in any form, then that makes you an anti-semite and a bona fide hater of jews. I'm not sure what's worse, the deliberate and disgraceful twisting of the truth itself, or the brazen way in which they're using one of the worst instances of racially-motivated genocide to score some petty political points against Corbyn and his supporters. This one aspect of the past year has been the most disgraceful and pathetic example of the depths they will stoop to. They deserve deselection just for this, but such has logic and common sense been turned on it's head by the PLP and their media friends that being a lying, slanderous **** has somehow been spun as being the victim.

I still have no idea what people are on about with that.

File me under that too. Labour may have the odd skeleton in the closet but this is the very definition of Tory spin.

tmh Did your hear Corbyn's comment on Marr about the impact of EU labour on wages and working conditions in general and in Lincolnshire in particular ?

So you agree with him?

This reply just HAS to be from a parody account.

[img] [/img]

If not..... 😯

@molgrips if you wish drop me an email with a phone number and I'll call you. When Jewish Labour party member after member is telling you there is a problem and MPs like John Mann and Chucka say there is a problem, there is a problem. David Mitchell is just the latest figure to make a statement and leave the party.

Harder left has always strayed from supporting Palestine via being anti-Isreal policy to be anti-Isreal in general (20% Isrealis are Arab and not all Isreali's support the governments policy) and that anti-Isreal in general morhphs into outright anti-semtism as all Jews are treated as being agents of the Isreali state. Add in Corbyn meeting wth Hamas and Hezbollah and you have an inadvertant standars bearer for anti-Semitism. Also as Isreal is strongly supported by the US the harder left anti-Capitalists align with anything which opposes the US or their foreign policy.

Note anti-Zionists which many in Momentum are means anti the right of Jews to have a homeland. Its not a group campaigning for a 2 state solution but the eradication of the state of Isreal, the one and only Jewish state. The BDS movement is widely seen to be anti-Semitic, BDS is another cause popular with Momentum members.

The specific Corbyn issues began with Oxford Uni Labour Club members reporting anti-Semitic abuse of Jewish students by Momentum members and Jewish party members beung harrasses by the same. Reported to party and Uni. Report commissioned but full contents inc details of ghe abuse covered up by Corbyn via commission a second and third report. The third report was the Chakrabati one. Even from terms of reference you can see its a cover up. Corbyn has long associated with anti-Semites who are part of the Stop The War coalition. I think there are so eqthjng like 50 Labour members inc counsellors and of course Livingstone currently suspended for anti-Sentism. IMO that's just the tip of a very large and very sinister iceberg

Let's bery very clear its perfectly legitimate to oppose Isreals policy on say the West Bank. What is not is to shout abuse at Jewish students attending Uni or to repeat anti-Semtic statements such as Jews control the media, money/banking, the US and/or UK Government etc

Corbyn could have dealth with this firmly 9 minths ago, however he chose not to. There is no good reason for why he has done that.

@rone the anti-Semitic issue is a real one and has been flagged more by those within Labour than Tories.

Yes I agree that uncontrolled immigration depresses wages and wroking conditions. I was firmly Leave and for his entire career Corbyn has been anti-EU. So on that issue I think we share the same ground. I do believe his non-Campaigning was deliberate, fellow MPs asked him if he had actually voted Leave.

Shocking anti-Semitic behaviour as reported in the Telegraph:

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/education/universityeducation/8870909/Oxford-Tories-nights-of-port-and-Nazi-songs.html

Are these the students you mean J?

Yes I agree that uncontrolled immigration depresses wages and wroking conditions.

Fine, it still doesn't make it true.

But I guess that's obvious, because it isnt and it doesn't. And that doesnt refer to the "jncontroled" fabrication, it refers to the bit about wages etc.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/religion/11345858/Revealed-the-most-anti-Semitic-people-in-Britain-and-who-they-vote-for.html

Interesting ukip voters most likely to be anti-Semitic, followed by Tories. A problem of the left hmmm.

Yes I agree that uncontrolled immigration* depresses wages and wroking conditions.

anyway back to JC 😉 nice tweet link from CFH on the previous page, 62% of people who would vote Labour support JC so according to that poll about 15% of the population...

Time for [s]some policy[/s] taking the government to task over Brexit etc. in the end he needs no serious policy until 1 year out from an election but they do need to agree behind closed doors where they stand on government policy or they are screwed.
As said many times it's the job of a leader to lead. If you can't lead your own party what hope of a country. At this rate without either very strong whips (I think we are talking Kevin Spacy style here) or a shake up of MP's on the slim chance they get into government they will never pass any legislation due to infighting.

62% of people who would vote Labour support JC so according to that poll about 15% of the population...

Morning, Mike, and thanks for doing the math.*

*As they say in these parts!

Also, have since established that the reply was from a parody account.

A parody of JC, a parody of the Labour party or just somebody who could probably launch an IT policy without a pub blackboard....
Seriously this satire stuff is getting harder and harder

have since established that the reply was from a parody account.

I don't wish to see this thread het derailed but it is an central issue to Corbyn's leadership. Thenlast Corbyn / Owen hustings where in London in front of a Jewish audience. It's fair to say Corbyn's reception there was very negative.

@ctk so did the Tories seek out Jewish students shouting slogans and singing "Rockets over Tel Aviv" ? Did the University Tory club abuse it's own Jewish members ?

Do UKIP and Tories have anti-Israel policies ?
Where the councils in Glasgow and Leicester that flew Palestinian flags over the town hall and support BDS Tory or UKIP ?
Was the MP who declared Bradford an Isreali free zone UKIP/Tory ?
Did the oeader of UKIP or Conservatives declare Hamas a friend, Hamas has a written constitution calling for the destruction of the state of Isreal by armed Jihad ?

The Tory party has passed laws preventing town halls declaring support for BDS

So - to recap.

Corbyn's Labour - unelectable
UKIP - Ridiculous
LibDem - Poisoned by the Coalition
Tory - Well, they're Tories; what can you expect?

Who do people vote for?

jambalaya - Member
Thenlast Corbyn / Owen hustings where in London in front of a Jewish audience. It's fair to say Corbyn's reception there was very negative.

That's not how the Jewish Times reports it:

Although Owen Smith received more support from the audience across the debate, Corbyn fared better than might have expected and received a rapturous response when discussing the Jewish community’s role during the Battle of Cable Street

Harder left has always strayed from supporting Palestine via being anti-Isreal policy to be anti-Isreal in general (20% Isrealis are Arab and not all Isreali's support the governments policy) and that anti-Isreal [b]in general morhphs into outright anti-semtism[/b] as all Jews are treated as being agents of the Isreali state.

So you've gone from supporting the Palestinians, to being anti-Israeli govt, to anti-Isreali people, to anti-Jews. What a load of bollox. Sorry I can't be arsed to actually respond with anything sensible because that's such a ridiculous warping of logic and outright inuendo even my 12 year old could spot the stupidity of it.

Do UKIP and Tories have anti-Israel policies ?

Faed with irrefutable proof of what parties harbour the racists - who knew it was right wing folk who were the racists eh who knew- he then just brings up Israel and cherry picks furiously

You just dont have fact based opinions do you.

TO quote Daz

If you're not in favour of the state of Israel murdering palestinians and illegally occupying their land, or show any support for the palestinians in any form, then that makes you an anti-semite and a bona fide hater of jews. I'm not sure what's worse, the deliberate and disgraceful twisting of the truth itself, or the brazen way in which they're using one of the worst instances of racially-motivated genocide to score some petty political points against Corbyn and his supporters

Where the councils in Glasgow and Leicester that flew Palestinian flags over the town hall and support BDS Tory or UKIP ?

Was the MP who declared Bradford an Isreali free zone UKIP/Tory ?

You can find racist anywhere even on here. However the facts are
1. More rw folk are racist than left wing folk
2. Criticism of israel or support for Palestine is not proof of anti semitism though claiming it is proof of stupidity

If I think Zimbabwe's government is bad does that make me racist?

Don't know, do you regard people who say things like this:

[i]"Our struggle against the zimbabweans is very great and very serious. It needs all sincere efforts. It is a step that inevitably should be followed by other steps. The Movement is but one squadron that should be supported by more and more squadrons from this vast Arab and Islamic world, until the enemy is vanquished and Allah's victory is realised."[/i]

And

"[i]The Day of Judgement will not come about until Moslems fight the Zimbabweans, when the Zimbabweans will hide behind stones and trees. The stones and trees will say O Moslems, O Abdulla, there is a Zimbabwean behind me, come and kill him. Only the Gharkad tree, would not do that because it is one of the trees of the Zimbabweans."[/i].

As your friends?

Then yes, you probably are

If I think Zimbabwe's government is bad does that make me racist?

Are your friends are in the KKK?

Surely you're not taking the Hamas comment out of context are you?

Surely you're not taking the Hamas comment out of context are you?

the whole corbyn/anti-semite/hamas/racist nonsense is a very juvenile and completely laughable smear..

no-one's buying it no matter how much the young conservatives chant it in the playground

silly

Corbyn refused to talk/acknowledge/be civil to Cameron

Is it worth including some facts here about a phrase used once?

Giving evidence at the home affairs select committee on Monday, the Labour leader said that he had used the phrase to describe the militant groups during a meeting in parliament in 2009.

“The language I used at that meeting was actually here in parliament and it was about encouraging the meeting to go ahead, encouraging there to be a discussion about the peace process,” he said.

Asked whether he still regarded Hamas and Hezbollah as “friends”, the Labour leader said: “No. It was inclusive language I used which with hindsight I would rather not have used. I regret using those words, of course.”

no-one's buying it no matter how much the young conservatives chant it in the playground

that's what i said... the young conservatives

EVIDENCE please

yay russell crowe!!

[img] [/img]

anti-semite

[i]ninfan - Member
The stones and trees will say[/i]

"[i]Crikey, 309 pages?!?!?!?![/i]"

I'm not your secretary, but as you used upper case,

I suspect his motives are 'the cause justifies the means', but I don't think that's any better than if he was just a simple old fashioned racist.

Seriously? One wants to secure peace to end suffering, the other hates people of different colour for no reason, and you think they are the same thing?

"The accusations come from within labour. The tories seem to be letting them get on with it."

This. The Tories have very little to gain from getting involved. I'd guess they'll say as little as possible until the election.

Comedy gold:

Lol yes what a fool Chris Leslie is!

John Macdonnell seems to have got a bit confused and ended up delivering a speech written in 1977.

I don't want this thead to get derailed but 2 comments.

Whether Corbyn & Momentum believe they have an issue with anti-Semitism others certainly do and far from dealing with it they have inflamed the situation.

Secondly, it is absolutely OK to criticise Israel's actions in say the West Bank or Gaza.

What is not ok is to target Jewish people throughout the world as a proxy for Israel.
What is not ok is to say that Jews excerpt control of the media, finance or the US - as is frequently done to "explain" foreign policy support of Israel as to imply to support Israel would otherwise be "irrational".
What is not ok is to support BDS which is a thinly disguised boycott of predominantly Jewish business and people.
What is not ok is to support the deligitimisation of the state of Israel and to campaign for a single-state solution, namely Palestine which is the main objective of so called anti-Zionitsts and of organisations such as Hamas.

All of the above constitute anti-Semitism

Clive Lewis isn't a happy Shadow Defence Secretary. Speech changed by Milne at the 11th hour. At least Corbyn has got the joke that unilateral disarmament is a vote loser and confirming the Defence budget at 2% GDP goes some way to addressing his weaknesses on security.

@ninfan you clearly don't understand how free money works, tou just magic it up. Of course alternatively the £500bn represents the savings we'll make from nkt oaying into the EU budget - £500 bn = 50 years using my numbers or 60 years using @mikesmith's/factcheck.

Another policy Corbyn trailered was social housing, instead kf laying £9.5bn in housing benefit to private landlords he intends to build council houses and save money, so back of the envelope £9.5bn is about £120bn of housing, so thats another cheuck of borrowing and rents will be what £3-4bn which I doubt would cover interest costs, administration and repairs

The there is the investment bank £250bn

[b]So £500+£120+£250 = £870 billion. I mean why not round it up to a £ Trillion ? [/b]

All of the above constitute anti-Semitism

Hm. I only see two.

If a thing references Israel then it's anti Israel. If it references Jews as people then it's anti-Semitic. Otherwise you fall foul of your own first not-okay.

Another policy Corbyn trailered was social housing, instead kf laying £9.5bn in housing benefit to private landlords he intends to build council houses and save money, so back of the envelope £9.5bn is about £120bn of housing, so thats another cheuck of borrowing and rents will be what £3-4bn which I doubt would cover interest costs, administration and repairs

whatever he intends to do about it the present situation should be considered a crime

But the new Rentier classes vote Tory...

Government owned Social housing is a proven fiscal multiplier, if anyone with a finger more on the pulse could post the actual ratio, and but I'm guessing at least 2 to 1, so why the hell would the UK tax payer possibly want that over the buy to let portfolio Rentier model?

Edit: I was way off, a quick Google suggests 2.85, so nearly £3 earned for every quid spent

Government owned Social housing is a proven fiscal multiplier, if anyone with a finger more on the pulse could post the actual ratio, and but I'm guessing at least 2 to 1, so why the hell would the UK tax payer possibly want that over the buy to let portfolio Rentier model?

I assume because you get exactly the same multiplier if the private sector build houses, so you might as well let them do it and have the benefit of the 3-1 multiplier without having to pay the '1' and the hassle of doing it, and the blame if you get it wrong (tower blocks).

As long as the local authorities are the landlords receiving the rent monies, and not a private individual or organizations

As long as the local authorities are the landlords and not a private individual or organizations

Nope, unless I'm misunderstanding what you mean by multiplier. I took you to mean House gets built and that money+the presence of the house stimulates the economy to the tune of 3 times the investment.

EDIT: Yes, I can see from the link you meant what I think you meant, and it doesn't matter where the cash comes form, the effect is the same.

The ratio would be lower, as the government wouldn't be recipients of the rents, therfore less goes back in to the government coffers, but yes those investments and spends would still reap a tax take. I think you grasp the basics

http://anotherangryvoice.blogspot.co.uk/2012/10/what-is-fiscal-multiplication-explained.html?m=1

Not quite the same as the government wouldn't get back the rents, but even though some of those rents would be paid out by the benefits agency in Housing Benefits. They would however still recieve any taxation on earnings from a private renter as you point out

But on the other hand, the private sector could invest those rental takings, further generating taxable income... Mmm complex!

I think you grasp the basics

I think I do. In contrast this: "As long as the local authorities are the landlords and not a private individual or organizations" indicates that you had been badly mislead. So perhaps instead of reading the opinions of angry people you should read the views of calm and rational people.

How misled? The way I see it, private landlords could also be just as likely to bank any profit, rather than purely make further investment, therefore a lower tax take?

What's the argument here? That private landlords renting to housing associations is as good as state owned housing?

I think Corbyn's point is that paying £9.5bn to non-state landlords is a waste of money as state housing would be much cheaper, I do wonder exactly where are they going to build the 600,000 required houses / flats ?

@Yunki we should have a Social House building programme and I am against right to buy. Councils shouod not be able to sell off housing stock either.

Hm. I only see two.

Anti-Zionism means the Jewish people (a race and a religion) have no right to their own country anywhere. I don't see a similar movement targetting any other race ?

Molegrips, it's an argument on semantics of fiscal multiplication of state owned over private social housing.
My gut feeling is government owned would be a higher ratio, but as oitofbreath points out its a very difficult calculation

Jamb, agreed re right to buy and state owned housing stocks

But aside from that state owned housing has some other clear advantages surely?

Anti-Zionism means the Jewish people (a race and a religion) have no right to their own country anywhere.

Ok, but again that's not the same as anti-Israel.

I know that link I provided up the page might have offended outofbreath, Molegrips, but it does describe the concept in layman's terms, and reinforces your stance I'd say

But aside from that state owned housing has some other clear advantages surely?

Yup, feel free to provide a link to a comprehensive list of advantages and disadvantages of state owned/maintained housing. I was addressing only the single claim made above.

As I have said many times I thiught he'd drop out humiliated and had zero chance of winning even the GOP nomination. Now he is in a 2 horse race for The White House. He could win, he really could

Sound familiar?

I do wonder exactly where are they going to build the 600,000 required houses / flats ?

Some of them on the public land they are currently giving away to developers of luxury flats.