Jeremy Corbyn

I think, however, that the collective character of the current voting public may just have changed in the past 76 years.

This. If 1945 is your electoral reference point Ernie Labour in England and Wales is going to look like Labour in Scotland. Corbyn is as far left as I can remember and I'm going back to Michael Foot.

Today is a quiet day in respect to the Somme commemorations, we are then going to resume the in-fighting and we'll have Chilcot and the Momentum crowd with be in full voice. Full self destruct mode. If PLP can't force Corbyn out relatively quickly I can see a 2020 GE result of 150 Labour MPs. Once they are seen as being unable to win an election just as in Scotland their support could evaporate.

ernie_lynch - Member
Didn't you complain earlier that all binners wanted to do was post pictures, ernie?
Why would I do that?

Erm, dunno. Why would you do that?

It was him that was making the point concerning how voters have voted in the past, not me.

I thought it was you who was saying that the 1945 result was an example of why Corbyn's appeal would be popular today. Did I not read that correctly?

"You have obviously never heard of the 1945 landslide Labour government which was closer to Fidel Castro than I am to Corbyn. "

I thought it was you who was saying that the 1945 result was an example of why Corbyn's appeal would be popular today. Did I not read that correctly?

No you didn't read it correctly.

I was pointing out the obvious nonsense behind binner's claim that voters have never elected a government with views as left-wing as Corbyn. All Labour governments before Blair were more left-wing than Corbyn.

Ah.

I agree. The problem is no-one wants to give him airtime so others can listen

He needs to learn this as the entire debate is dumbed down.
One of the reasons Blair said nothing

Like Obamas Yes we can or Trumps Make America win again
Its sounds great but it is empty pithy rhetoric

the public love it though...sadly

I was pointing out the obvious nonsense behind binner's claim that voters have never elected a government with views as left-wing as Corbyn. All Labour governments before Blair were more left-wing than Corbyn..

And everyone goes misty eyed and yearns for the halcyon days of power cuts, 3 day weeks, uncollected rubbish and calling in the IMF, don't they Ernie? Such magical times.

Dear god! Talk about being completely detached from reality

teamhurtmore - Member
OK ernie as the only informed Labour historian here

Why did Labour lose the last election?
What happened to the core vote?

Well maybe it had something to do with the 750,000 Scots living in England.

Quite a few were Labour voters, and those I know did not vote Labour after Milliband joined the hatefest against Scotland and made it clear he would not work with the SNP.

That of course is purely anecdotal. I wonder if anyone has done a survey, it would be interesting to know if it had an effect.

However I think that cost Labour a lot of support.

It certainly cost them Scotland which used to return 40-50 Labour MPs and now has only one.

That of course is purely anecdotal. I wonder if anyone has done a survey, it would be interesting to know if it had an effect.

They have - that what is so intriguing, why ignore it?

Still a bit of internal mud slinging is always fun to watch. The only question is which is more entertaining the Labour or Tory version.

Good job there are no serious issues to deal with....

The only question is which is more entertaining the Labour or Tory version.

One is really important and will have a potentially huge effect on all our lives
One is a pointless circus

But you're right... I suppose in the absense of anything important to worry about, this is what happens....

binners - Member

And everyone goes misty eyed and yearns for the halcyon days of power cuts, 3 day weeks, uncollected rubbish and calling in the IMF, don't they Ernie? Such magical times.

Dear god! Talk about being completely detached from reality

So you gone from claiming that voters would never vote for someone as "left-wing" as Corbyn (despite you voting for him to be leader) to now claiming, after you realise the nonsense that you've spouted, to, left-wing governments are rubbish.

And you're too clueless to realise that the 3 day week was under a Tory government.

You don't need to be a Labour historian to know that, only what you are actually talking about - it helps.

One is a pointless circus

On the contrary, I think an effective opposition is vital especially at the moment.

But it is extraordinary how people/parties are unable to step back and assess the situation in front of them. Labour have just elected two "leaders' who are/were not up to the job. The Tories did it before then (IDS, Howard and a too-young-at-the-time Hague). And there is a good chance that both might do exactly the same again.

Its a perfect illustration of how-inward looking they have become and how largely unfit they are for purpose. Still their "me, myself, I" approach is probably quite reflective of society at large, so in that respect we do get the politicians we deserve. Good job no one wants them running large parts of the economy. Imagine that.....

Just stating what it is Hurty. Not what it should be.

But Ernie and his comrades seem absolutely determined to have us all visit their quaint little 1970's theme park, until we all realise how brilliant it actually was/is and vote Jeremy in with a landslide.

Its not if, its when, comrade

*salutes Red Flag*

[img] [/img]

Politics is all a lot of bullshit really, isn't it...

Nostalgia is a wonderful thing binners

Meanwhile....

Out of interest, has Eagle spread her wings yet?

Your skills at posting pictures clearly outweigh your skills at constructing coherent arguments binners, I would stick with that.

In the meantime I've got stuff to do - happy picture posting 🙂

Corbyn is unelectable and Boris is a vote magnet. Time to rub it all out and start again 🙁

tmh there was a PLP meeting at 10:30 I suspect out of respect for the Somme anniversary we'll hear nothing today. As I posted there is hope he may agree to quit perhaps after Chilcott, he got what he wanted with a Leave vote and I think he really wants to have his day over Iraq. After that there is nothing left.

Nice line from Martin Kettle in todays Grauniad:

[i]Once again the Conservative party has proved why it has a PhD qualification in political ruthlessness, while at the same time the Labour party is struggling to even manage a GCSE retake[/i]

Quite

After that there is nothing left.

Intended pun?

Once again the Conservative party has proved why it has a PhD qualification in political ruthlessness, while at the same time the Labour party is struggling to even manage a GCSE retake

😀

teamhurtmore - Member
'That of course is purely anecdotal. I wonder if anyone has done a survey, it would be interesting to know if it had an effect.'
They have - that what is so intriguing, why ignore it?

I was meaning if there was a exPat Scots voters resident in England effect.

If there has been a survey done on that I seemed to have missed it.

Maybe any effect was cancelled out by the equal bile coming from the Tories, but upsetting a large group isn't likely to get you votes from them..

He is different to other major party leaders and previous recent Labour leaders in that he doesn't subscribe to the neoliberal consensus of austerity, corporate power, aggressive wars, tax cuts/avoidance for the very wealthy, development of weapons of mass destruction, privatisations, etc.

So for those reasons he attracts a lot of attention. Which when coupled with outright hostility from the Tories, the Blairites, and the Tory press, gives him quite a hard time.

Well said ernie.

He is different to other major party leaders and previous recent Labour leaders in that he doesn't subscribe to the neoliberal consensus of austerity, corporate power, aggressive wars, tax cuts/avoidance for the very wealthy, development of weapons of mass destruction, privatisations, etc.

I thought he was different because other than the slogans he has no policies

You do realise you have spend about two days and lots of post just making the same point over and over again

Perhaps you ought to develop another "policy" for disliking him 😉

I'm remembering why I usually try to avoid STW politics threads.

Has there been any proper feedback from the people who voted him in? From what I can see all this chat on here is just regurgitating the media spiel....for sure, if that's what you base your opinion on go ahead but it's hardly an unbiased opinion (especially since the media decided how much coverage to broadcast of his pre-referendum voice in the first place). I hope JC stays or leaves based on democracy, not whether the Establishment just say so...

Apparently a number of CLPs in London voted no confidence in him yesterday and polls have shown a significant decline in membership support (but he would still just win)

Apparently theres been a huge surge in membership, so the 3 quid communists are preparing for battle. Their victiory? To consign labour to the dustbin of history, ushering in permanent Tory rule.

I've just thought... Ernie and the 3 Quid Communists would make a great band name. Their first EP - Permanent Tory Rule

@mefty + hasn't membership increased by 60,000 recently and no one knows whether it's in support of him or hoping to vote him out...

@binners....communists eh....

hasn't membership increased by 60,000 recently and no one knows whether it's in support of him or hoping to vote him out...

As I understand it, yes, also I am not sure whether that poll covered the £3ers who were most on his side.

PLP just waiting for his polls to decline a bit more then push someone forward. PLP caused this shitstorm no blame can be laid at Corbyns door. (watch the Rosebushes if you are going to lay blame at his door)

But of course as people have made clear in this thread it IS Corbyn's fault that Gordon Brown and Ed Milliband lost the previous 2 G.Es and surely if we get rid of Corbyn and replace him with a centrist Blairite bod the Labour Party will smash the next G.E whenever it is called.

I'm sure Angela Eagle or Chuka or whoever would bring back the vote from Labour heartlands. Maybe a rebranding as Chuka McUmana to get back Scotland.

@mefty + hasn't membership increased by 60,000 recently and no one knows whether it's in support of him or hoping to vote him out...

I reckon 50/50. (Going by twitter posts) Hopefully enough Tories will join to see Corbs through

Once again the Conservative party has proved why it has a PhD qualification in political ruthlessness, while at the same time the Labour party is struggling to even manage a GCSE retake

Excellent find.

This whole power to the members has backfired spectacularly, its too cheap, there are no proper checks including on multiple applications, there appears to be no qualification period, ie you can sign up today and vote tomorrow

Indeed, it's almost so cheap and easy to do that mischief makers might sign up to elect him in order to weaken the party...

Seven months ago, on this very thread (page 109) I warned that the party was repeating the mistake of forming a 'cult of personality' as they did with Blair. A warning that had significant history on the political left. I can only restate that warning again now.

I thought he was different because other than the slogans he has no policies

That's odd because I'd have said that his major problem is that he has no simple slogans to paint on buses, or tunes that the proles can hum along to, so he relies on boring stuff like reality, which is inevitably too complicated to be easily sold.

[url= http://www.thedailymash.co.uk/politics/politics-headlines/everything-man-once-found-refreshing-and-different-about-corbyn-now-idiotic-and-awful-20160701110076 ]The Mash nails it again[/url]

Haha "he doesn't even own a car what a dick"....what a great piece of intelligent journalism...for the record I'm not a JC supporter...just critical of all the media brainwashing going on at the moment...

I read that mash article as making fun of people who've changed their mind as much as making fun of Corbyn

Are you aware of the concept of satire? Or is that a capitalist Blairite conspiracy too? 😆

edenvalleyboy - Member

Has there been any proper feedback from the people who voted him in?

There is a YouGov poll out today of Labour Party members which suggests that he would win :

[img] [/img]

However, and this is quite important, the poll [i]only[/i] included Labour Party members, not registered supporters or affiliated supporters, among whom his level of support has been significantly higher in the past.

And what is also quite important to mention is that the 50% support of party members the poll claims he enjoys today is [u]exactly[/u] the same level of support he received from party members in the leadership election last year.

Actually 49.59% of party members voted for him when he won the leadership.

So according to the YouGov poll Corbyn's support among Labour Party members hasn't fallen recently, which I have to be honest surprises me a little.

One thing above all else that the leadership election last year taught us is just how out of touch Labour MPs are with their own party (never mind their own voters).

So far there is scant evidence that has changed very much.

@binners - I'm a way too Left to have a sense of humour anymore.... 😀

Edit; cheers for that post @ernie..

At least 60,000 new people have joined the Labour party in the past week amid delays to Jeremy Corbyn’s leadership challenge.

[quote=molgrips ]

At least 60,000 new people have joined the Labour party in the past week amid delays to Jeremy Corbyn’s leadership challenge.

apologies

DrJ - Member

That's odd because I'd have said that his major problem is that he has no simple slogans to paint on buses, or tunes that the proles can hum along to, so he relies on boring stuff like reality, which is inevitably too complicated to be easily sold.

apologies

I thought he was different because other than the [b]boring JC "reality" based [/b]slogans he has no policies

that OK for you?

Let's lighten this up: 🙂

[img] ?oh=cdd0b01a13fa4b4607763dbaeed596f3&oe=5805B7EC[/img]