Jeremy Corbyn

Any labour leader essentially has the backing of Scotland regardless of how we vote

Not at all. Jeremy Corbyn could be robbed of a parliamentary majority to increase corporation tax by the SNP, for example.

A genuinely social-democratic government led by Jeremy Corbyn could not rely on support from the SNP. How Scots vote can indisputably dictate the character of the Westminster government.

what an obnoxious piece of lazy sexism

I must have missed something but I'm not sure what's sexist about pointing out that the only reason Cooper can put forward for people to support her is the fact that she's not a man and that she'll try to help families with some extra childcare. Very feminist indeed. Of course, the only thing women care about is childcare and the raising of children isn't it? If she really was a feminist, rather than just claiming to be one to garner some votes, she'd be shouting very loudly about how she was going to enforce equal pay and working rights across all sectors, forcing all public and private organisations to have equal numbers of men and women in leadership positions, providing equal maternity and paternity rights and benefits, refusing to do business with countries which persecute women and a whole host of other things. Strangely though I've not heard any of that. Maybe she'll get round to it tomorrow?

Ernie, fair comment. I'm well with you on distrust of the SNP. But I'm not campaigning for them just explaining the attraction of alot scots to them. The SLP have a bigger task than corbyn IMO to gain back credibility, question is whether scots labour MP's will fight for Scotland or just be compliant. Public opinion is very much with the latter at the moment. This obviously becomes less of an issue if Westminster is acting correctly

nemesis - Member
As I see it, if he is elected Labour leader, at least there's some chance of an effective opposition. I might not particularly agree with many of the things he proposes but at least I feel that he'll hold the Tories to account rather than just try to look more and more like them but as a weak, ineffective facsimile.

That's how I see it. Realistically I don't see him as PM, rather as a very effective opposition leader. And as we have nearly five years of Tory rule ahead of us I don't feel that's a bad thing.

As for the next election, unless things radically change I'd predict another coalition due to the mixed-up politics of the current time; just between who, I don't know.

I just scanned some £5 notes and then printed them out (double sided and everything...), before going to Boots to try to spend them on my lunch.

They wouldn't accept them, but I thought that Corbyn was planning to do something similar.

How is that going to work if Boots wouldn't play ball with me ?

Careful Doris, they will be in to you next but good that you understand the difference between a noun and an adjective. Lost on the clever ones, that!!!

but I thought that Corbyn was planning to do something similar.

Not quite. He's planning to do it electronically, you know, like the government are doing right now. No need to scan and print.

http://www.bankofengland.co.uk/monetarypolicy/pages/qe/default.aspx

EDIT : Perhaps I should say that the Bank of England are doing it. Because of course Gordon Brown made the Bank of England "independent" and it has nothing to do with the government. Apparently.

Not quite. He's planning to do it electronically, you know, like the government are doing right now. No need to scan and print.

I give it about an hour before someone uses the phrase 'national credit card'.

does anyone understand what this meant?

It means that THM's pretence of knowledge is being seen through by more people so he is now trying to also pretend that he was just joking all along. He has tied himself in so may knots he is even trying to obfuscate the Edinburgh defence.

but I thought that Corbyn was planning to do something similar.

Makes you think doesn't it? An anti-austerity left wing politician and a pro-austerity right wing nasty Tory have essentially the same core policy and the heart of their strategy - QE v PQE - how very odd.

Meanwhile in Greece - odds on a snap election in the next month?

Not at all MSP - Doris and I were noting the similarities between the panto or campaigns not the individuals. So the posse's retort was misplaced as it confused a noun with an adjective. Any way can't claim any credit for the idea, the post was promoted by the FT article this morning. So no defence needed, the point stands here as it does in the FT.

Before jumping in with studs up, always better to check where the ball actually is

It means that THM's pretence of knowledge is being seen through by more people

I learnt a long time ago on here that it's best to just have a good laugh at THM's self-appointed superiority and not bother arguing against him. I don't know how Ernie has the energy. I especially like his deliberate misspelling of people's names, quite a nice touch I think 🙂

EDIT: Although I do agree with him on the left v right thing being a fantasy.

I'll admit to just giving up and blocking THM and Ninfan. I don't understand how people can be so wrong about everything and selfish. So I stopped trying fathom it out and now I don't have to see their posts.

And not a single reference to the points. Keep playing the man!

EDIT: Although I do agree with him on the left v right thing being a fantasy.

Why thank you!! And the proof - look at QE. The presses get turned on, the proceeds used to buy up government debt, yields stay low, government borrows more, runs larger than expected deficit and reduces spending cuts.

And how is this described? RW austerity!!! You have to laugh. And then Jezza's mate presents largely the same thing with a new nickname and its radical LW think. And whose gullible?

So the economy rebounds partly due to an expansionary fiscal policy and stealing money of savers and mispricing government bonds. Really RW that!!

Outstanding.

Back on topic...

[url= http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2015/aug/14/liz-kendall-choosing-jeremy-corbyn-labours-resignation-letter ]Looks like Burnham has finally given up the pretence of civility and joined in the gutter politics.[/url] Think I'll have to retract my earlier comments of him being able to hold his head up high. Not exactly surprising but disappointing all the same. Seriously though, he's going to have to think of a better reason to vote for him that 'John Prescott and Neil Kinnock agree with me'.

I don't read THM's post because largely they make no sense...for instance...

And then Jezza's mate presents largely the same thing with a new nickname and its radical LW think. And whose gullible?

...appears to be a cryptic crossword clue

[quote=nickc said]I don't read THM's post because largely they make no sense...for instance...
And then Jezza's mate presents largely the same thing with a new nickname and its radical LW think. And whose gullible?
...appears to be a cryptic crossword clue

It ain't too difficult 🙂

http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2015/aug/03/economist-defends-corbynomics-criticism-richard-murphy-jeremy-corbyn-qe

We had moved on to printing presses....

X-post actually more to do with Chris Giles piece in the FT today than the Guardian one. But same topic really.

Key question, how much difference is there in reality between what a nice honest left winger is proposing and what an evil nasty Tory Chancellor is executing? Answers on the back of a stamp......

Also funny to see Murphy's comments on how Peston explains what he (Murphy) is proposing. That's the problem with and economics editor not really be an expert in that field. 😉

dazh - Member
Back on topic...

[url= http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2015/aug/14/liz-kendall-choosing-jeremy-corbyn-labours-resignation-letter ]Looks like Burnham has finally given up the pretence of civility and joined in the gutter politics.[/url]

If he's resorting the 'silent majority' argument, things are pretty bleak already. Not really looking forward to seeing what three weeks of desperation and infighting will do to them all.

Key question, how much difference is there in reality between what a nice honest left winger is proposing and what an evil nasty Tory Chancellor is executing?

He is alternatively schooled and speaks with a different accent.

teamhurtmore - Member
Chris Giles piece in the FT today

Do you feel if you mention the FT every 4 posts it adds more or less weight to your arguments? 😆

The FT can be a pretty good source of news, yet somehow I arrive at completely different conclusions to THM 😀

You could create an online generator to write THM's posts:

Reference to an FT article
Reference to the SNP and how awful they are
Condescending comment about how misguided everyone else is except him
Economics jargon used in a deliberately unclear way
Comment about how the Tories aren't really right wing at all (which he understands but no-one else does)
Pepper in a few names of people/references to articles you haven't bothered to identify, and a few nonsensical 'jokes' and there you have it.

I'm sure he and his cheerleader allthepies would love to claim it's because we're all too thick to get it, but I've read books by actual economists and i could understand them just fine.

Here's a key concept for you THM: writing/language is about communicating ideas. You're a very bad communicator judging by your posts on here. You'd get very poor marks for your standard of writing/argument in an academic context, which is ironic as I believe you work in education?

Any chance of an on-topic post grum?

"All too thick" - where has that been mentioned? That's quite some complex....

No Joe, but if people are asking what you are talking about, it's only fair to be clear ie the article in the FT. But to be fair, it is the first thing I read in the morning. I like it for the variety of comments and commentators. You got lots of different perspectives - quite refreshing as opposed to the hard-fixed perspectives elsewhere.

Grum (hint) re your Tories aren't RW point. You will notice the recommendation to look at what people do, not what they say. So the reference today is to the fact that the actual policy being implemented is hardly right wing at all. Just a pity that it doesn't fit into the lazy narrative of petty politics. But tie yourself to one party and its hard to see that.

Grum, thanks for the advice BTW. Very helpful, you're too kind.

😆

You still got some smug condescension in there but at least that post was mostly coherent, so thanks for that.

FWIW I think you make a reasonable point about looking at what people do rather than what they say, but you exaggerate the extent to which this is actually the case.

been mentioned? That's quite some complex....

I've seen the argument made before, perhaps by one of your cheerleaders not by you, I can't remember. And I'm not tied to one party - I've voted Labour, Green and Liberal Democrat at various different levels in different elections.

And I still don't see why you have such a problem admitting that you are generally right wing in your political/economic outlook, which would make you a natural Tory supporter (or perhaps New Labour). This really is very obvious to everyone here.

which is ironic as I believe you work in education?

Although he hints heavily that he works in education I don't think he does. I have no idea what he does for a living but my guess would be something like traffic warden, or some other job which leaves the person feeling somewhat inadequate.

Andy Burnham comes across as an entirely value-free carpetbagging opportunist.

Rubbish. I'm sure Andy Burnham has got principles. And if you don't like them... well, I'm sure he has others. (G Marx)

You still got some smug condescension in there

I've seen the argument made before, perhaps by one of your cheerleaders

my guess would be something like traffic warden, or some other job which leaves the person feeling somewhat inadequate.

Breathtaking.

Woppit if you are accusing me of having a smug condescension attitude towards THM then I am completely guilty as charged. He can kiss my hairy proletarian arse.

In contrast I have immeasurably more respect for someone like Mefty who often puts forward a conservative point of view in an intelligent manner and without the need to insult people's intelligence.

Was the irony unintentional do you think, woppit!?! 😉

mostly coherent...reasonable point...exaggerate...one of your cheerleaders etc

Sorry, who is condescending?

And I still don't see why you have such a problem admitting that you are generally right wing in your political/economic outlook

Not that it is any of your business, but since you labour the point (weak joke, sorry) because its true. On the old 4x4 matrix I was classified as a "LW libertarian" which is not too far off, but frankly the LW v RW is of little relevance to me - like some of Jezza's policies, its an outdated (Jurassic) way of thinking about things IMO.

He can kiss my hairy proletarian arse.

You are a real charmer, Ernie. probably the best offer of the weekend

Yeah well I'm not sure you're worthy THM, I might change my mind.

Shucks and I so wanted to see your Maggie posters too. Still another time, eh?

ernie_lynch - Member
Why epicyclo? Are you claiming that the choices are false and that all the candidates are ultimately the same ?

Ah no, just the potential result.

The other candidates all equal more of the same. Promise anything but proceed as normal.

If Corbyn gets in, they're going to gang up on him to make him ineffective or get rid of him. Which equals more of the same.

The only hope is that as soon as he is leader he behaves like a traditional tyrant and [s]executes[/s] expels any Red Tories who have smeared him.

Sorry, who is condescending?

Play the ball not the man THM. 😉

Whether I am condescending or not is of little relevance to whether you are.

Breathtaking.

Thanks!

Woppit if you are accusing me of having a smug condescension attitude towards THM then I am completely guilty as charged. He can kiss my hairy proletarian arse.

In contrast I have immeasurably more respect for someone like Mefty who often puts forward a conservative point of view in an intelligent manner and without the need to insult people's intelligence.

Exactly - I disagree with mefty about virtually everything politically but I respect his arguments/opinions and the way they are presented. And crucially they make sense.

Trying to pick apart what THM is actually on about in amongst all the pompous put-downs is really quite tedious.

Whether I am condescending or not is of little relevance to whether you are.

😀 M7:5 might help 😀

Have a good weekend and find some time for a ride. Weather looks crap though.

Breathtaking... hypocrisy, I mean.

Interesting that earnest has abandoned his attempts at dull exposition and is resorting to even duller arse references.

I see that Chukkup Da Money is going to form a guerilla underground to fight Jeremy's army on the event that he gets elected. You couldn't make it up.

Anyone for Dennis?

Breathtaking... hypocrisy, I mean.

He says without betraying a hint of irony as he proceeds to insult people.

Back on subject. While all the focus has been on Corbyn's alleged popularity among Labour Party members and supporters, it appears that he might have some significant wider support among ordinary voters in London at least.

[url= http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/jeremy-corbyn-is-vastly-more-popular-with-londoners-than-his-rivals-poll-finds-10455830.html ]Jeremy Corbyn is vastly more popular with Londoners than his rivals, poll finds[/url]

[i]But the pollsters found that Mr Corbyn had the support of 46 per cent of the capital’s residents, who thought he would make the best Labour leader.

Andy Burnham was a distant second place in the survey on 21 per cent, Yvette Cooper third on 20 per cent, with Liz Kendall, the Blairite candidate, trailing on 12 per cent.

The results suggest the views of the public – at least in the Capital – are broadly in line with those of Labour supporters, who also back Mr Corbyn by a landslide.[/i]

Oh? How so? I don't see any insult? Just a descriptive of your style and a commentary on the Labour comedy.Which is the subject, apparently. I thought you'd approve.

Blair ups the ante

[IMG] [/IMG]

If Corbyn is in on the first vote as a clear winner(presuming majority votes from long standing party members too) I wonder what the dissenting anti Corbyn MPs will do? Would the Conservatives want them as defectors once the publicity value of their disloyalty to Labour faded? Do they have any other career left to go to?

Perhaps more interestingly, what sort of protest might anti left MPs get from annoyed voters who feel voting has been undermined by a coup or similar poor behaviour?

There is a lot of potential for an internal party protest from even say a quarter of 600,000+ voters. There is a lot of writing about how the MPs may split the party but no one seems to be saying how the electorate of the party might respond to anti left MPs after the leader is announced. Hey, its almost like only the MPs response is of any value!

I think you might be surprised how many Labour MPs who are anti-Corbyn now that will end up fully accepting his leadership should he win.

There aren't that many free-thinking Labour MPs, most are careerists who go with the flow. When after John Smith's death Tony Blair became leader most Labour MPs accommodated the party's dramatic lurch to the right with a minimum of fuss.

The reason many Labour MPs express an anti-Corbyn stance now is simply because they feel it is expected of them, they do what they think is expected.

On the other hand imo a minority on the hard-right probably won't accept the result of the leadership election if it goes against their personal preferences. They with backing from the media, specially the Tory press, will have the capacity to cause some significant damage and possibly reverse it.

The sensible thing to do imo would be for Corbyn should he win to quickly call an emergency party conference. The emergency conference could pass rule changes to reestablish democratic control of the party thereby minimising the power and influence of the anti-democratic hard-right.

I heard Liz Kendall on the radio predicting doom and gloom. With her apparently trailing, would she not have been better stepping down and pledging support for another candidate if she did not want Corbyn to win.

Yep. Yet somehow, all three are stumbling on as if they can win against Corbyn and each other.

Wow, long thread! I'm sure I have nothing useful to add that hasn't been said and said again, but I'd just like to state for the record that as someone who has been completely disenchanted and disenfranchised by the politics of this country since I could first vote in '98, Jerermy Corben has sparked my interest like nobody else in that time. He seems honest. He says what a great deal of working people are thinking. He represents a complete sea change from business as usual corporate politics. I would vote for him. I doubt very much he can win an election; should he win the leadership contest it will be open season for the likes of Murdoch and other manipulators public opinion to destroy his popularity, and they'll have nigh on five years to do so. But at least he'll be a principled, dignified and inteligent OPPOSITION, rather than the weasly 'we'll just say what we think you want to hear' brigade that we have at present. For the first time in my entire life, I have a political leader who I can actually get excited about supporting, rather than just having to look for the least worst option.

v8ninety - Member
...should he win the leadership contest it will be open season for the likes of Murdoch and other manipulators public opinion to destroy his popularity, and they'll have nigh on five years to do so...

For decades the mainstream media owned mainly by tax evading non-dom billionaires has helped to hold down the cause of independence in Scotland and in particular, the SNP, by using fear, smear, and sneer methods.

But the rules of the game have changed thanks to social media, and despite a massive effort by the media, support for the SNP has surged massively.

The main stream media are being sidelined by folk networking between themselves, and I expect this to work in favour of a Corbyn led Labour Party. Once the media loses the trust of its gullible audience, they have Buckley's chance of regaining it.

picyclo - Member
v8ninety - Member
...should he win the leadership contest it will be open season for the likes of Murdoch and other manipulators public opinion to destroy his popularity, and they'll have nigh on five years to do so...
For decades the mainstream media owned mainly by tax evading non-dom billionaires has helped to hold down the cause of independence in Scotland and in particular, the SNP, by using fear, smear, and sneer methods.

But the rules of the game have changed thanks to social media, and despite a massive effort by the media, support for the SNP has surged massively.

The main stream media are being sidelined by folk networking between themselves, and I expect this to work in favour of a Corbyn led Labour Party. Once the media loses the trust of its gullible audience, they have Buckley's chance of regaining it.

For decades the mainstream media owned mainly by tax evading non-dom billionaires has helped to hold down the cause of independence in Scotland and in particular, the SNP, by using fear, smear, and sneer methods.

But the rules of the game have changed thanks to social media, and despite a massive effort by the media, support for the SNP has surged massively.

The main stream media are being sidelined by folk networking between themselves, and I expect this to work in favour of a Corbyn led Labour Party. Once the media loses the trust of its gullible audience, they have Buckley's chance of regaining it.

During the indy ref social media was the place where people went to be told what they want to hear. It was a massive bubble. I perused WOS for a laugh. Plenty of gullible people there wanting their pro indy fix.

The SNP will not be happy at the thought of a Jeremy Corbyn led Labour party.

If Corbyn is in on the first vote as a clear winner(presuming majority votes from long standing party members too) I wonder what the dissenting anti Corbyn MPs will do?

They should respect the result and votes of their members and align themselves fully to the principles and values of their new leader. Honesty comes first and his example of how to behave is clear and should be followed.

"Do as I do.." because that is why I have been chosen democratically as your leader. 500 to beat....The clock is ticking.

THM and earnest (sort of) agree! THM reckons they're obliged to and earnest reckons they will because they always go with the flow.

Left and right unite and fight!

"It is a new dawn, is it not?"

athgray - Member
During the indy ref social media was the place where people went to be told what they want to hear. It was a massive bubble. I perused WOS for a laugh. Plenty of gullible people there wanting their pro indy fix.

The SNP will not be happy at the thought of a Jeremy Corbyn led Labour party.

Aye, we users of social media are all stupid. Our stupidity is the only reason the SNP now dominates the political landscape in Scotland. But we're not as stupid as the folk who swallow everything published in the media owned by the foreign billionaires.

seosamh77 - Member
...ultimately labour got shafted because the SNP went back to boots on the ground and chapping doors and getting the grass roots motivated.

It definitely helped, but it had nowhere near the frequency of exposure compared to social media. My belief is that the boots on the ground came about because of the support generated by social media.

The sensible thing to do imo would be for Corbyn should he win to quickly call an emergency party conference. The emergency conference could pass rule changes to reestablish democratic control of the party thereby minimising the power and influence of the anti-democratic hard-right.

I would think it's rather simple to bring the rightwing rebels into line, just give local constituency parties the power to democratically de-select their MPs if they fail represent the constituency party adequately.

I'm sure I have nothing useful to add

That's Labour in Scotland stuffed then, no change.

[img] [/img]

That's Labour in Scotland stuffed then, no change.

why so ? the idea that the snp did so well in the general election due to a wave of nationalism makes little sense when the snp couldn't inspire a wave of nationalism just a short while past in the referendum.
the snp did so well in the general election because of it's stance on austerity. a labour party offering socialist ideals will always do well in scotland, imho.

The "no more devolution / powers" thing only works if folk in Scotland think there will never be another UK Tory government. As long as that is a realistic prospect, the SNP will attract the votes of those wishing to negate the more right-wing policies.

The "no more devolution / powers" thing only works if folk in Scotland think there will never be another UK Tory government. As long as that is a realistic prospect, the SNP will attract the votes of those wishing to negate the more right-wing policies.

Surely it only works if they think the SNP can deliver an end to austerity better than a Corbyn led Labour Party?

Once it dawns on them that the SNP in opossition is a paper tiger and that the Tories still hold the purse strings, the appeal wears off. As Sarah Palin said, "How's that hopey, changey stuff workin out for ya?". At the same time, the SNP can't afford to be anything but a paper tiger, because if they were, then they would have to take responsibility for the results, rather tha keeping on blaming the Tories for everything because 'they hold the purse strings'

Link to the Blair CIF piece?

Ninfan - you misunderstand how it's working. Not for the first time.

[quote=gofasterstripes said]Link to the Blair CIF piece?

😯 😆

Yeah, well, I did look through the website....

ninfan - Member

As Sarah Palin said, "How's that hopey, changey stuff workin out for ya?".

Only you would quote Sarah Palin.

I expect you think it was a great loss for the American people that she didn't become vice president ?

Not as much of a loss as it would be if either Trump or Clinton became PUSA next year 😯

Good to see Labour are aligning north and south of the border with two new leaders who both share a complete absence of any meaningful work experience outside of the political bubble - isn't it about time that "Labour" was rebranded to reflect that most of its senior leaders have never had a job in the way most of the population would recognise?

Trump/Corbyn. Now that's what I call a "special relationship". Surpassing even:

[img] [/img]

just5minutes - Member

Good to see Labour are aligning north and south of the border with two new leaders who both share a complete absence of any meaningful work experience outside of the political bubble - isn't it about time that "Labour" was rebranded to reflect that most of its senior leaders have never had a job in the way most of the population would recognise?

What a strange thing for a Tory to say.

Most of the senior Tory leaders have had no meaningful work experience outside of the political bubble and have never had a job in the way most of the population would recognise.

And btw Labour haven't got a new leader "south of the border", just north of the border. Pay attention.

ninfan - Member
...At the same time, the SNP can't afford to be anything but a paper tiger, because if they were, then they would have to take responsibility for the results, rather tha keeping on blaming the Tories for everything because 'they hold the purse strings'

But that is the problem, the UK govt does hold the real purse strings. Pocket money isn't quite the same thing.

The electorate here are well aware of the scam. It's why despite continuous negative media bleatings about the SNP, the support for the SNP continues to grow.

Looking at Labour in Scotland, has there ever been a case of a political party which got so much uncritical media support, and yet crashed *so badly in the polls?

*(Went from 41 seats to just 1 in the last election, and is getting hoovered up in all the council elections).

😆 @ Scottish Labour new leader ... Crikey, talking about first impression.

Just been catching up, a most entertaining thread.

Of course Corbyn isn't going to agree to another Scottish referendum, no Labour leader is going to do that. Only the Tories will agree to one and like Salmond said it was a once in a lifetime opportunity. Corbyn believes it will be easier to win seats in Scotland than the South/Midlands hence his stance.

Go Jeremy go, his campaign looks unstoppable. Truly excellent news. I very much hope I'm right on this one and I can maintain my track record.

Jeremy is/should be a more credible candidate over the other clowns contesting for leadership as he seems to be a genuine guy.

jambalaya - Member
...Corbyn believes it will be easier to win seats in Scotland than the South/Midlands hence his stance.

He's just blown that opportunity.

BTW, just in case you don't realise it, Salmond isn't king of Scotland. We decide when we want another referendum.

But let's keep this thread focused on Corbyn.

He's just blown that opportunity.

He's perhaps banking on the idea that a lot of the support for independence was a reaction against right-wing Tory and Labour parties, he's maybe hoping a left-wing Labour party will attract enough of those people back to Labour.

Problem is, for that to work, Scottish people need to believe that Corbyn could win the next election. Not sure that's going to happen.

epicyclo
Corbyn certainly has not missed the boat in Scotland. I know that the potential of a Labour leader that may appeal to people on both sides of the "border" you hold dear as though it is the iron curtain may be anathema to you and your wish for a one party state.

Also get over the media. People of all political persuasions read mainstream media for a variety of reasons. Some may follow the politics, many probably like the sports coverage or the crossword, or a bit of a window on the world, or out of habit. You, however seek social media to be told the BS you want to hear.

f the "border" you hold dear as though it is the iron curtain may be anathema to you and your wish for a one party state.

athgray - Member
epicyclo
Corbyn certainly has not missed the boat in Scotland. I know that the potential of a Labour leader that may appeal to people on both sides of the "border" you hold dear as though it is the iron curtain may be anathema to you and your wish for a one party state.

...You, however seek social media to be told the BS you want to hear.

One party state?

Stop dribbling. It's free elections, with a rabidly anti-SNP media, so very much not controlled by the state. It illustrates how much on the nose the other parties are to have only only 3 seats between them in Scotland.

Labour Party membership in Scotland is now down to about 7,000 apparently from over 20,000 before the referendum. Corbyn isn't going to pull any of them back by promising more of the same, which from Scotland's point of view is what we'll get.

Right now there are moves to form another independence party with a UDI agenda because some people feel the SNP are not radical enough. While it is unlikely to get much support, let's not forget it was only a few years ago there were only 5 SNP MPs and Labour ruled Scotland, so who knows where that will end up.

This issue is not going away, and if Corbyn doesn't recognise it, he'll not regain Scottish votes. It looks like he won't because he recognises that playing the stomp on Scotland card plays well in England.

As for social media, well for example, tell me which papers have published the full voting records of the MPs.
Yet that was available on social media, and also the information on how to check it. That's the strength of social media - you get information you'd never hear on the controlled media, and it is simple enough to check and follow it up. Every time a politician gave us BS, someone would post a link that enabled it to checked. The media don't give us that - unless it's an SNP politician.

There are plenty loonie tunes on it as well, but it's easy enough to spot them, and a quick check eliminates them.

This issue is not going away, and if Corbyn doesn't recognise it, he'll not regain Scottish votes. It looks like he won't because he recognises that playing the stomp on Scotland card plays well in England.

I know you are in a hurry for another ref. I admit I did not expect the clamour to be so strong less than a year down the line. You can't accept that the decision made less than a year ago was made by Scots.

Bring on Corbyn.

athgray - Member
Do you honestly think people in England give a toss about stomping on Scotland?...

Of course not, why should they?

And that is why I believe the best thing for Scotland is to be able to determine it's own affairs. Simple.

WTF are you on about? You just said Corbyn recognises stomping on Scotland plays well in England.
Which is it. Do people in England care about stomping on Scotland or not?????