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Don't worry once he's spent all his money on re-nationalising the big 6 energy firms and re-opening the coal mines there won't be any money left for schools, NHS etc.
Interesting the attack on Eton is the type of petty thing that achieves little and goes down badly with a significant portion of voters.
you're bonkers mate... absolutely screaming bonkers 😆
Err, you could try the official source of economic facts in the UK clod or resort to a diatribe. Your choice,
You asked a (facetious) question about Eton and got a straight answer. Sorry that doesn't suit.
Deluded is the word I'd use, Yunki. Utterly ****ing deluded.
"I see little evidence of what you suggest"
This is clearly because you a) spend far too much time on here, and b) obviously do not have sufficient experience of society at anything more than a superficial level, which means you are completely out of touch with the reality experienced by so many in our society. Perhaps if you swapped your keyboard for actually visiting various parts of our country, and talking to real people, you'd become somewhat more enlightened.
Oh, here's some facts for you:
https://www.equalitytrust.org.uk/scale-economic-inequality-uk
Stick your 'facts' where the sun don't shine. 😆
Speaking of getting off the computer, and sunshine...
yunki - Member
Can I respond with a few questions of my own woppit...
I'd rather you dealt with mine.
Whoops, looks like somethings come off the rails:
[i]Images released by Virgin Trains show that honest and authentic Jeremy Corbyn staged that video in which he sat on a train floor and appealed for “public ownership” of the railways. In a statement Virgin revealed that the 67 year-old Labour leadership favourite walked past “empty, unreserved seats” prior to filming the video. After shooting the film, he was assisted by train staff to seats which he and his team occupied for the remainder of the journey to Newcastle. Stick to regular sit-ins, Jez…[/i]
😆
http://order-order.com/2016/08/23/corbyns-train-squat-doesnt-stand/
Turns out that "busy train" where Corbers had to sit on the floor due to lack of seats not only had seats but there was one reserved for him. More of the "new politics" we were promised I guess.
Edit: beaten to it
tjagain - member
Ours is very unequal compared to most of Europe
Especially if you're in the shadow cabinet apparently....
@just5minutes - given that we both posted that at the same time, are we now part of a conspiracy?
show that honest and authentic Jeremy Corbyn staged that video in which he sat on a train floor
Wait - HE staged it?
Maybe he got on a crowded train on the wrong carriage and, rather than fight his way through to his seat and evict a squatter, he thought he'd sit on the floor anyway. Then it was filmed and other people made a big deal out of it. That seems more likely to me, tbh, but maybe it's all the kind of big political stunt he's known for...
But anyway - how important is it?
Clod, the wonder that is wifi means that you can access this nonsense from a variety of places. I have change location by 40 miles on this page alone!
But please help me out. How do I tell if someone is real or not. There are some people sitting in the coffee shop next to me. Do I just ask or should I try and pinch them?
Thanks for your advice in advance
But anyway - how important is it?
Truthful, honest politician.
Or a bit of a liar, just like every other politician.
But anyway - how important is it?
Important enough for his supporters to have made a big thing about how 'principled' & 'egalitarian' it made him 😆
Maybe he got on a crowded train on the wrong carriage
Since we've drifted off into the 'maybes' then maybe there were only empty seats next to somebody and Jeremy refused to sit next to one of the hoi-polloi?
Molgrips - how important is it if video evidence is released that appears to show the leader of the opposition "staging" an event?
Is it better or worse that he was on his way to a leadership debate [s]conducted on the principles of a gentler honest kind of politics[/s] where he then made political points about the "problem" he encountered?
Most people would be fired for this sort of stuff at work. Is this conduct any less excusable because the person doing it is an MP?
Molgrips - how important is it if video evidence is released that appears to show the leader of the opposition "staging" an event?
Are you answering or just re-iterating the question? That was an actual question by the way not rhetoric.
And in any case - he might've *appeared* to stage an event, but the question is did he *actually* stage it? Questions like this is where the political debate goes off the rails imo. We want the country run competently for the benefit of all. If he can do that, I don't give a shit where he sits on trains.
Important enough for his supporters to have made a big thing about how 'principled' & 'egalitarian' it made him
Some of them did, aye. But did he? Did all of his supporters? I'd have thought it obvious at this time that not all Labour or Corbyn supporters are of one mind...
where he then made political points about the "problem" he encountered?
Was the train overcrowded or not? If so, he can use that fact to make political points, of course he can. Makes no difference where he personally sat. The question is was the train overall overcroweded, and are the trains generally overcrowded?
But did he? Did all of his supporters? I'd have thought it obvious at this time that not all Labour or Corbyn supporters are of one mind...
Well, since the video was by an authorised documentary maker who was travelling with him, then you have to presume there was some level of authorisation, and even if there wasn't, if the initially reported version was untrue, why didn't Jeremy's press team come out with a clarification?
The question is was the train overall overcroweded, and are the trains generally overcrowded?
Well, if there were empty, unreserved seats, then clearly the answer has to be a resounding no doesn't it?
he might've *appeared* to stage an event, but the question is did he *actually* stage it? Questions like this is where the political debate goes off the rails imo. We want the country run competently for the benefit of all. If he can do that, I don't give a shit where he sits on trains."
Maybe the facts can help us here - the video and stills show:
1. He walked past unreserved empty seats
2. He sits in the vestibule and does his video
3. He walks to a seat and spends the next 2 hours sat in it
4. He arrives in Newcastle and talks about not having anywhere to sit on the train
We are also told (this may not be a fact) that he actually had a reserved seat.
If we can't answer the simple question of whether it was staged or not we're a bit ****ed. Can we really expect a leader to run anything competently when they are spending their time reportedly making things up?
Of course he staged it. His transport policy document was out the same day. Playing the media game, getting in the papers etc. Like Cameron riding his bike to work with a car following him.
In next weeks episode of The Only Way is Islington Comrade...
Jeremy has his rent raised well above the rate of inflation by an unscrupulous private landlord, and has to resort to borrowing money from a payday lender
I love technology!
Walking past empty seats with no reservations:
[IMG] 
[/IMG]
Geotagged location
[IMG] 
[/IMG]
Can we really expect a leader to run anything competently when they are spending their time reportedly making things up?
Hmm.. tricky one this.
Trains are overcrowded, yes. However, if he's going to sit on the floor to make a point, he should've admitted it was a stunt. Otherwise it'll backfire.
However - he does have a point, does he not?
Also - did he put out the 'man of the people' message or was it one of his supporters? Some of whom we know are a bit unhinged.
However - he does have a point, does he not?
No, not if there were seats available. In that case he doesn't have a point.
From the tweets: "Don't blow it now Agent Corbyn, your mission to destroy the Labour Party is almost complete."
Based on the reaction of Jezzas supporters to this one event I'm beginning to think Corbyn is even more of a cult than Sturgeon is up here.
(On that note, you should watch reaction to tomorrows GERS figures to get an object lesson in how to try to spin or ignore inconvenient facts)
EDIT: as Al Murray just put it on twitter: "We can now add CCTV to the list of biased MSM outlets" :O)
No, not if there were seats available. In that case he doesn't have a point.
Well he's talking about trains in general, presumably, not that specific service?
And trains in general are overcrowded at peak times so I think he does have a point. Do you deny that there is an overcrowding issue?
Trains are overcrowded
They are, though I'm yet to see a sensible solution to this. Bringing them into public ownership can't generate longer platforms, more rolling stock or upgrade the infrastructure.
Either way, everyone knows the trains are busy, you don't need a staged stunt to bring it to everyone's attention.
And, as someone who used the trains in British Rail days and now uses them under the TOC's, why oh why do we think a publicly owned railway would be better???? BR were terrible, horrific punctuality, old and dirty rolling stock and generally a horrible place to be. The new system is not perfect but it is so much better than the old BR days.
Yep Corbyn is making a point unlike Cameron riding his bike in when he was trying to make himself look good/green.
Still I think both stunts are daftness. But I'm kind of glad Corbyn is at least trying to play the media game.
Apparently, if you nationalise something, it works just fine....
This must be why Jeremy wants to nationalise, well, just about everything.
See you at the " Citizen Assembly" comrades...
The train thing's comms fluff, but let's just say it doesn't alter my impressions of his and his team's general levels of competence.
As in if you were going to make the point that trains are overpriced and some are really overcrowded you'd travel Leeds-Manc or cross country to Birmingham or something. I travel on the East Coast line a lot and it's really not that bad (in terms of crowding. Not price.) You'd also not stage something that's obviously going to be rumbled. Hey ho.
Trains - look at the east cost mainline. Franchise went bust, back to public ownership. made a big surplus with high travelling standards. Back to franchise. costs us more, service worse.
the last days of BR were bad because of lack of investment.
From @OwenSmith_MP
"My campaign remains on track. Proud to be genuinely standing up for ordinary people."
Hes got my vote just for that :O)
This must be why Jeremy wants to nationalise, well, just about everything.
why oh why do we think a publicly owned railway would be better????
Why oh why do we think a new public railway would be the same as BR????
old and dirty rolling stock
The trains I use most were new in the days of BR, ironically.
Bringing them into public ownership can't generate longer platforms, more rolling stock or upgrade the infrastructure.
Well I believe the theory is profits would have to be re-invested instead of given out to investors. So if there were any profits then yes those things would happen.
They are, though I'm yet to see a sensible solution to this.
Building new lines would be a start.. oh wait, that's unpopular too...
Part of the solution is supposed to be HS2, which to be fair Corbyn does support.
Why oh why do we think a new public railway would be the same as BR????
What else would it look like? That's the last time the UK railways network was public owned, why would it look different?
The East Coast is 1 line, it was run well, but running a whole network is a different kettle of fish altogether.
What else would it look like? That's the last time the UK railways network was public owned, why would it look different?
Because it'd be a different organisation with different rules and regulations..? There's no standard mandatory template for public ownership, is there?
Tricky though isn't it.Well I believe the theory is profits would have to be re-invested instead of given out to investors. So if there were any profits then yes those things would happen.
I'm a fan of nationalising/re-nationalising critical infrastructure and Trains just about qualify as that for me, but upon nationalisation people would expect a price decrease [i]and[/i] performance improvements - achievements that are probably going to suck your profits away very quickly.
Also bear in mind that if this happens as one of the first tests of a Corbyn government, the press will focus on every flaw/hiccup more than they have ever done since privatisation.
It will be an interesting one to follow though - as the reason Corbyn is focussing on this is because Polls show that there is a fair bit of support for it.
upon nationalisation people would expect a price decrease and performance improvements
Hmm don't think so. It would need to be (and probably would be) the subject of widespread public discussion, and the rules and aims should be transparent. So they could set out rules like say, fares stay the same in line with inflation except for say X and Y ripoff fares that might come down; 100% of profit reinvested; £Z subsidy each year and so on. Whatever the terms were, they should be set out.
And also remember publicly owned doesn't have to mean government run.
How do the franchise fees the government receives from the operating company (at no risk) compare with the profits the treasury received when publicly owned?
Its pointless discussing one without the other as a comparison surely?
upon nationalisation people would expect a price decrease and performance improvements
Correct, if it's going under public ownership it's because the current system doesn't work. In train terms "doesn't work" means it's either too expensive, it has poor performance (punctuality) or it's overcrowded. So the public would expect that to improve quickly, and that will not be a cheap undertaking. So there go your profits and some very, very quickly.
IIRC and I can't be arsed googling it - Less in the case of east coast mainline. It cost the public purse to give it to virgin.
A majority of the public want the railways nationalised and the beauty is it could be done at no cost.
East Coast paid back over £1 billion to the government over the course of its franchise.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/East_Coast_%28train_operating_company%29
A majority of the public want the railways nationalised and the beauty is it could be done at no cost.
A majority of the public think that Mrs Brown's Boys is the best sitcom this century....
So the public would expect that to improve quickly, and that will not be a cheap undertaking. So there go your profits and some very, very quickly
I'd be interested to know what public appetite is for significantly increased rail subsidy rather than simply public ownership.
Take back into public ownership and invest is (I hope) the plan.
Unless you set it up with a ring fenced budget the Treasury would take back any profit at the end of the year, so it won't get re-invested. Even with a ring-fence a cash strapped government would still raid it.
Wait - HE staged it?
Politician in setting up a political photo opportunity shocker! Isn't this what those who keep telling him to behave more like a conventional politician want him to do? This is how you win elections is it not?
God it's hot out...
So, the very best the Corbyn haters can do, is prattle on about whether or not Corbs 'staged' the 'packed train' thing?
Really? 😆
So, it's taken almost a week for Virgin trains to come up with a 'rebuttal'? Does photoshopping/video editing really take that long? 😉
Let's look at Virgin trains; consistently the worst provider in terms of customer satisfaction.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-34474212
Worst for actual 'performance'.
http://www.networkrail.co.uk/about/performance/
Virgin trains, receiver of massive public subsidies:
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2013/jun/10/truth-richard-branson-virgin-rail-profits
Virgin trains, owned by the lovely 'Sir' Richard Branson:
Richard Branson, who might have a vested interest in continuing to profit from Virgin trains. Profit which might be threatened somewhat, by Corbyn's plans to re-nationalise the railways. Not to mention Sir Richard's plans to capitalise on healthcare when the tories sell him chunks of it.
Not really that difficult to see why he'd take to social media in an attempt to damage Corb's credibility, is it? And you're crowing about Corbyn's integrity? Really?
'Staged' or not; Corbyn's got you all talking about transport nationalisation. What a move. 😆
So.. apart from the air conditioning, the lattes, the edible sandwiches, working toilets, wifi, and free unreserved seats...
[img] 
[/img]
What have Virgin Trains ever done for us?!
A majority of the public want the railways nationalised and the beauty is it could be done at no cost.
A majority of the public don't travel on the train and will never do so.
Corbyn has repeatedly said the trains are too expensive and the companies are making "massive" profits, so he is clearly inferring he would reduce prices. In practice of course he'd do no such thing.
Re-nationalisation would come at a massive cost including far more strikes and enormous pension liabilities.
I see Corbyn has been caught with his pants firmly down by Virgin trains for blatant misrepresentation via a video of him sitting on the floor complaining about overcrowding when in fact there where free seats.
@clod this isn't the best we can do, its just todays story on the never ending trail of F-ups which comprise his leadership. Re-nationalising the railways is one of his flagship policies ... and he's shot himself in the foot. So much spin his eyeballs are going to pop out
@yunki what on earth makes you think I am not in favour of equality ? We live in one of the most egalitarian places in the world which I fully support.
Don't forget the free breakfasts in first class!
After a midway dip this thread is maturing nicely, especially in the last week or so. Well done boys keep up the good work. And well done Jezza you've struck a rich seam of comedy gold.
@jamby are you in favour of nationalising the railways?
Re-nationalisation would come at a massive cost including far more strikes and enormous pension liabilities.
SOURCES!
A majority of the public don't travel on the train and will never do so.
WTF has that to do with the original point- its **** all isnt it?
Its also not true the majority of the public will not travel on trains at some point....only jamby could do a non sequitur that was not even true
BRILLIANT 😆
May i also get your crystal ball - just to ask it when you will say something truthful? i would ask you to do it but i would not believe the answerIn practice of course he'd do no such thing.
I gave up as your entire post was just made up RW frothing
your expressed opinions on here?what on earth makes you think I am not in favour of equality ?
Go on then are you in favour for completely equal rights for the arabs/palestinians within Israel and you want to openly criticise it for its racist policies ?
I assume you wish to complain about the way ONLY jews have the right to emigrate there,, Palestinians alone have restricted marriage rights as that is clearly unfair....go on give them both barrels of your egalitarian cannon 😉
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arab_citizens_of_Israel#Civil_rights
Some facts for you to ignore
Don't forget the free breakfasts in first class!
First class ?? FIRST CLASS?!?!?!
Know that come the revolution, the revolution will be coming for you comrade!
That so-called first class breakfast that you ate in your so-called first class was stolen from out of the mouth of a hard-working, unemployed baby who subsidises you capitalist, Blairite, running dog, red-tory, biased-media, tory scum who is both scum and a tory AND a Blairite.
After this, I think Jeremy can kiss goodbye to ever being PM.
Corbyn's got you all talking about transport nationalisation.
Great. What a masterstroke.
If that's his great legacy he shouldn't have creased his trousers for it.
beauty is it could be done at no cost.
No cost. Really?
Public sector doing something that big at no cost.
Hahaha hahaha hahaha ha.
Ha.
Werp.
Yeah, you know. Like HS2.
Commanding heights of the economy, and all that innit bruv...
Network Rail is publicly owned, it was quietly nationalised last year. It now comes under the treasury ( they've already ****ed over the final salary pension scheme........*unts)
Most of the TOCs make little money from trains, profit margin if any tends to be parking fees etc
Still it was nice to see Silken Stalin busted.
Bit late to this bit aren't all the empty seats he walks past (coach H)first class? Therefore the reason he walks past them....
Also this is hardly a major deal is it "man sits on floor when he could have sat on a seat" is all over the news but "PM hides daddys money in Panama" is swept under the carpet after he posts a tax return (yeah because if you have money in an illegal offshore fund you would put it on your tax return??!?)
We live in one of the most egalitarian places in the world which I fully support.
Now that has to be the most mind-bendingly stupid jambyfact I've read to date.
Here's the pic Branson tweeted
Im struggling to see any seats that weren't reserved, certainly not enough for him and his posse
[img] 
[/img]
I travel daily on virgin trains id say 30% of times I don't get a seat leaving London and I pay five grand a year for that (that is a hefty chunk of my salary too!)
So much for the 'new spin free' politics. What a hypocrite. So lame.
aren't all the empty seats he walks past (coach H)first class?
No, its the same carriage that he ends up sitting down in half an hour later
note camera number and time stamp: (and as earlier, you can check the GPS location of the first photo with empty seats, clearly without reservations, to be just as the train leaves London)
[img] [/img]
[img] 
[/img]
Look forward the pic above futon, Branson is taking out of his arse
[url= http://www.independent.co.uk/news/passengers-dispute-virgin-trains-version-of-jeremy-corbyn-sitting-on-floor-video-a7205631.html ]Eye witness accounts.. sort of...[/url]
No, its the same carriage that he ends up sitting down in half an hour later
Is it **** mate.
[IMG] 
[/IMG]
[IMG] 
[/IMG]
Hang on, so, wait...
When Jezza did the actual video, the train was packed, and it was only later that there were free seats (after some people had got off)?
So Jezza didn't stage it after all? Ha ha! 😆
Virgin trains in 'trying to cover their own arses by lying' shocker. Surprise surprise!
Love it. I knew there'd be more to this. Loving the fact the right wingers on here must be really fuming now, that they know they've been duped by Branson. 😆
Meanwhile, the tories and their mates are screwing our country. Interesting that that issue isn't important to some.
And to crown it all:
"But please help me out. How do I tell if someone is real or not. There are some people sitting in the [b]coffee shop[/b] next to me. Do I just ask or should I try and pinch them?"
If I didn't know any better, I'd say you did that on purpose, for comedy effect. But I do know better, and you really are that out of touch. 😆
"Thanks for your advice in advance"
Try cinnamon instead of chocolate sprinkles, on your cappuccino.
"I see the right has been caught with their pants firmly down by Virgin trains for blatant misrepresentation "
FTFY. 😉
"No, its the same carriage that he ends up sitting down in half an hour later"
"Is it **** mate."
Oof. That really must hurt. 😆
Is it **** mate.
Look at the two photos in my post, "mate" - the photo of the seats [b]without[/b] reserved tickets at 11.10, are quite clearly the same seats that he sits down in half an hour later, note also the identical 'food bar' curtains and posters, and, oops, the same carriage number too 10321 not carriage 12316 from where the picture [b]with[/b] the reserved tickets is from
oops, it pays to actually look before you shoot, doesn't it, "mate" 😉
When Jezza did the actual video, the train was packed, and it was only later that there were free seats (after some people had got off)?
And where, prey tell, does an East Coast main line train out of London stop in the first forty minutes of the journey for people to get off?
Or do you think they jumped out the window?
Come the revolution First Class will be packed with BR employees, their families, Union officials and government employees. Just like it always was!
The Train can't be that packed if you can sit on the floor, proper packed trains are standing room only.
There are obviously some Corbyn fanboys and haters on here and it's funny to read. But as someone who considers himself a floating voter at every election and open to voting for anyone (within reason), this really does make him and his team look like dicks. I don't see a new way of politics here, he's as prone to bullshit like all the others.
as someone who considers himself a floating voter at every election and open to voting for anyone (within reason),
[b]PURGE THE SPLITTER! TRAITOROUS SCUM![/b]
Etc.
😉
"oops, it pays to actually look before you shoot, doesn't it, "mate""
It does. Eyewitness accounts (several) conflict with Virgin trains' version. Keep believing Branson though. That's what he wants you to do.
Anyway, back to rail nationalisation.
Oh. So, we subsidise other countries' state-owned transport systems? And pay more per mile than any of those countries?
What a wonderful thing privatisation is...
How much notice do they give before the hustings? Is it enough time to book a ticket in advance and reserve a seat?
I like the idea of approaching politics in a different way, however I'm not sure I'd trust a man/team to run the country when they can't even organise a train seat in advance.