Ernie + loads
Whether they feel betrayed by labour or convince themselves JC was really for out will have a big impact in future elections.
I don't think it had anything to do with Labour or Conservatives, it was a combination of being utterly pissed off with their lot and very unhappy about immigration. My wife visited 16 car dealerships all over East Anglia over the last few weeks, as part of her job, and everyone she met was voting out solely because of immigration.
Jeremy Corbyn decides to get all animated and passionate the day afer... seems he was an outer all along.
We're getting his opening bid for PM just now on BBC news.
Bless him. He still thinks that his party is relevant in a world of SNP voters. Labour had to become New Labour to be electable and those days are long gone.
He still thinks that his party is relevant in a world of SNP voters. Labour had to become New Labour to be electable
So the SNP had to become like New Labour to be electable. Well there's a shocking revelation.
I take it that what Labour needs today then is a committed Blairite leader who passionately believes in the EU. Someone who can reflect the will of the people.
Someone like Peter Mandelson maybe, he has impeccable Blairite credentials which will guarantee that he connects with ordinary people.
I can see him making his Prime Ministerial victory speech outside number 10 right now
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I can see him making his Prime Ministerial victory speech outside number 10 right now
Almost as likely as a shuffling pensioner in a cardigan.
Are you suggesting that Jeremy Corbyn has difficulty in walking and only ever wears a cardigan ?
Interesting.......I hadn't noticed.
I leave it to you to distinguish between the two. Not a terribly difficult exercise I would have thought.
It was piss simple to see through tbh and i am not sure why you bothered to deny it whilst doing it again.
I never had you down as a liar...forgive my "middle class " conceit you working class sarcastic diamond geezer you 🙄
I am not getting into a spat as we really do need to build bridges in a divide country and this is not the method
Enjoy the victory and to the victor the spoils but we are in a fr a messy time
We can either help or hider this
The people have spoken, their wishes MUST be respected and being arsehoes - both sides are doing ot to be very clear- is not helping the country or the situation one bit
I wont be part of the problem but you celebrate as you see fit which is, surprisingly, cheap digs and lying about it.
I don't have a clue wtf you're on about JY, but whatever it is I hope you get over it.
EDIT : Despite your extensive edit I'm still none the wiser. Oh well never mind.
JC defending his referendum performance at Pride:
I for one am glad he did all he could - good ol' 7/10... Probably explains why he wasn't so keen to go to Glastonbury.
I do appreciate how devastating the referendum result must be for the Remainers and how angry and disappointed they must feel - especially as it seemed so certain they would win, even if narrowly.I also appreciate how they have real and genuine fears for the future, and how they believe this result represents a huge triumph for racism and xenophobia. I think they are wrong but I understand how fearful and angry they must be, I certainly would be if I believed that.
I do not however believe that Britain is a racist country. On the contrary, compared to pretty much all other countries it is the complete opposite of that. In fact as an unofficially naturalised Brit I am deeply proud of the British in that respect.
Having said all that, and having had plenty of personal experience of bitter disappointment with regards to politics, it occurred to me that now, a few hours after huge political bombshell when the wounds are still raw, is probably not the best time to expect rational debate with people who clearly feel very angry and disappointed - they are likely to exaggerate and say things which they don't really mean. I was reminded of the aftermath of the Scottish referendum.
Agree totally. I've been deeply suspicious of the motives of the clique running the EU for decades, and my heart was/is firmly to leave, but having said that, I can clearly see the point of view of the Remain side as well, so I put a blank form in the box, I was that conflicted. My feelings are clearly nothing to do with the very recent issues to do with immigration, IIRC I voted against the country joining the EEC in the 1970's, 1975, I think it was.
I'm desperately trying not to get drawn into a flaming war on Fb, I've expressed my opinion of the EU, and most of my friends and aquaintencies are very definitely Remain, which has led to some harsh words; it's clearly the case that it's not even permissible to dislike the political entity that is the EU, while having no issues with actually being part of Europe as well as being a nation that has much greater historical trading connections with the rest of the world.
Personally, when I read about European leaders threatening to put in place restrictive trade tariffs, they're just behaving like petulant brats tossing their toys out of the pram, as they need to keep selling to the UK, one of their biggest markets.
As the markets have shown, financial institutions can be pretty robust, and bounce back quickly, a lot of the issues were the hedge funds betting heavily on the pound dropping in order to make vast sums of money, it almost becomes a self-fulfilling prophecy.
the fun is going to be if we have a general election with a pro Brexit conservative, JC who is pro Brexit (and will come up with some excuse that the referendum mandate must be seen through) and the LibDems as the only out and out major "stay in" party
could be all Tim Farrons/ Green Party Christmases at once
[url= http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2016/jun/25/hilary-benn-jeremy-corbyn-labour-leadership-eu-referendum-brexit ]The end is nigh I think. [/url]
A couple of days ago I'd have been completely against this, now I think it's sadly necessary. If anyone had any doubts about the seismic effects of brexit, now you have your answer. Both leading party leaders could be gone from the same political event. And this is just the start I fear.
the bizare thing is that only a proper socialist labour PM has a chance of helping the left behind masses that voted for brexit
the very reason that there is this huge disenfranchised demographic is that the last 30 years or thatcherite/nulabour (Im not blaming fatcha here its just that this is the ultimate proof that 'trickledown' is just a fantasy) have shat on them time and again
I dont actually believe that Corbyns lackluster remain performance was coz hes a secret outie, Hes just not very exciting when he speaks, just look at PMQs !
Jeremy Corbyn decides to get all animated and passionate the day afer... seems he was an outer all along.
There was never any doubt. As Kate Hoey said every Parliamentary division she ever entered over the EU Jeremy was there with her.
I increasingly think Corbyn's limp support for Remain was deliberate, I think that is what has enraged those in the Laboir Party so much more than finishing 3rd in the Scottish elections
We have Chilcott and the anti-semitism report coming up, a tumultous few weeks ahead for Labour
the bizare thing is that only a proper socialist labour PM has a chance of helping the left behind masses that
We voted for Brexit so a UK Government of any persuasion was free to make its own decsions without having its hands tied by the EU.
We voted for Brexit so a UK Government of any persuasion was free to make its own decsions without having its hands tied by the EU.
do you actually believe its immigration thats caused this situation?
Would have been quite something if Jeremy had campaigned on his convictions to leave the EU - he'd be walking around like an absolute boss now, sitting on a mountain of political capital.
It's magical thinking, though - would have taken a political sorcerer (ie, not Jeremy) to pull that off, standing next to Farage and co on the Brexit platform as leader of the labour party. So he just had to keep his head down, and now it looks like it's time to go.
Some of the Blairite stuff in that linked article is simply amazing.
[i]Some claim that the Labour northern heartlands are breaking off from the party, as they have already done in Scotland.[/i]
But unlike Scotland they voted to Leave the EU, does this really prove that Labour should have had a more europhile leader ?
[i]However, critics claim the Brexit vote has shown how disconnected Labour has become from much of its support[/i]
And Hilary Benn is the man to reconnect with them ? ffs
[i]Leaked internal Labour party polling suggested that Labour would attract nearly 3 million fewer votes than it did in the 2015 general election if one were called today.[/i]
If you don't believe recent polls which put Labour either at level pegging with the Tories or overtaking them and would rather believe "leaked internal Labour party polling" then just look at actual election results - Labour winning by-elections with increased majorities and the Tories losing more than twice as many council seats than Labour.
It's only all doom and gloom if you're a Blairite.
Agree, but how can Corbyn get the buggers off his back?
No chance. The attacks against Corbyn were always going to intensify as we approached a general election, or the likelihood of an early one, but now the fact that the UK has voted to leave the EU the situation has become far more critical.
Free from the shackles of the EU Corbyn as Prime Minister would be free to pursue his dream of a social democratic Britain, with a mixed economy (publicly owned railways/utilities), strong welfare provisions, social justice, and genuine commitment to peace.
Expect the attacks from the Tories, from the Blairites, from the media, from the military, from 'the establishment', to become more unrelenting and intensive until they rid themselves of Corbyn.
Agree, but how can Corbyn get the buggers off his back?
There is one way...
Free from the shackles of the EU Corbyn as Prime Minister would be free to pursue his dream of a social democratic Britain, with a mixed economy (publicly owned railways/utilities), strong welfare provisions, social justice, and genuine commitment to peace.
Well if he wants that and thinks he has enough support he needs to get a GE called, sack his MP's put selection in the hands of the party members and roll the dice.
Agree, but how can Corbyn get the buggers off his back?
Well, he's just sacked Benn. Perhaps that's a start.
Half of the shadow cabinet to resign this morning apparently.
Half of the shadow cabinet to resign this morning apparently.
There must be a term for half a shadow?
Hilary Benn is on the Marr show this morning...
Its going to be carnage. Supposedly sacked by telephione after Corbyn leant Benn was going to be on Andrew Marr show
Heidi Alexander (shadow health) gone
So will we be deciding labour leadership the same way again?
I am mindful that the phenomenal majority Corbyn got last time was reflected in the breakdown of the 'real' member votes just as much as the affilate £3 ones. And that the party membership continued to rise after he became leader. And of the rather comprehensive and amusing set of conservative u-turns and climbdowns that happened in spite of the right (including my own super rw/conservative christian MP who wrote about this last summer) warning us that we needed an effective (ie labour-right) opposition to be able to stop the conservatives turning into a runaway train of 'off-manifesto' rigt wing madness. Yet somehow the old lefty and his old lefty mate were part of all sorts of climbdowns and a remarkable rise in political interest amongst the poor and the young.
What happens of all this terrible infighting and dysfunction just produces the result that the party membership actually still wants corbyn?
They are trying to bully him to resign, it is truly disgusting.
Who is this unifying leader who will appeal to the anti- immigration xenophobic 'masses'?
*edit: bully him to resin as they know they would lose a leadership election whichever blairite stands.
Who is this unifying leader who will appeal to the anti- immigration xenophobic 'masses'?
Jamby?
#votejamby
I knew he had an ulterior motive for all this anti Corbyn bollycjs!
A few questions addressed to ernie in particular as he is better informed on these sort of things but open to all;
How would the Corbyn supporters who elected him to the leadership have voted in the Referendum ? (Remain I imagine) What is their reaction to his half hearted campaigning ? Will they continue to support him as they are somewhat conflicted ?
#votejamby
Easily the most ridiculous thing posted on STW for some time 😀
Not so Jamby your love and heart felt compassion for those poor Northern working folk who are having their jobs stolen and your desire to increase their wages busy stopping immigration makes you one of the few credible and unconflicted choices. The working man needs you
Half-hearted ? When did this become true?
Wasn't Alan Johnson in charge?
Media only interested in Tory in fighting.
Stage 1 get yourself into the media debate.
Stage 2 arrange a large wooden horse for your support in the country to infiltrate your party at, let's say, 3 quid a pop.
Stage 3 use your new power base to promote your few PLP buddies to the front bench.
Stage 4 appear, reluctantly.to back the eventual loser in an international political earthquake when everybody knows you're lying through your teeth about it.
Stage 4 then provoke a showdown in the PLP resulting in sackings and resignations.
Stage 5 complete the takeover.
Stage 6.... Hello SDP 2.0.
Benn on Marr now. No punches pulled so far ....
"a good and decent man, but not a leader....."
NSS!!!!
I thought it started at 9 - buggar booting computer niw
Damn forget to reset my watch 🙁
I suspect corbyn supporters will still support him as and the last research I saw showed that he easily had enough grass roots support tp win another vote
Clearly he cannot carry the PLP and the labour party is split between members and elected officials
I suspect corbyn supporters will still support him as and the last research I saw showed that he easily had enough grass roots support tp win another vote
But what about the disaffected? Nobody gets elected by their own supporters (to PM) they need the rest
Hilary will "reluctantly" allow himself to be persuaded by the rest of the anti-Corbyn PLP to run for the leadership.
Junky - yes I susoect they will still vote for him in any challenge but its curious as he's delivered a Leave vote by his relative inaction. What I wondered is if many of those Momentum types ahd voted Leave as per left leave etc
I have voted Labour in every general/council election I have been able to (1992). I live in the North and work in manufacturing. Presumably this makes me a 'core labour voter?'
I am pro-Europe, pro-nuclear power and pro-Trident.
I will never vote for the labour party with Corbyn in charge. Elections are won from the centre ground. Doesn't matter how popular you are with your momentum pals.
PS my current view is Corbyn is desperate to get to the Hutton report publication so he can tell us all how vindicated he is. In the meantime Rome burns.
Just realised how rambling my post it - **** it - I'm going to ride over some passes now because I am so hacked off with what my country and party seem to have become.
http://www.bbc.com/news/live/uk-politics-36570120
Clever games, get the crisis in while the Tories get in line for theirs, by Tuesday the front pages will be about Tory Civil war - well if more than one has the balls to step up. Didn't somebody mention a Major moment again....
