Jeremy Corbyn

"I have often stated that Thatcherism was a myth"

There's a number of ex coal-mining and industrial communities that would happily prove you wrong, were you to visit.

"he is doing some sensible things"

You are very funny. 😆

Thanks - and you are easily amused 😉

"Which is of course precisely why Corbyn's opponents never want to talk about his policies."

Can you post a link to current Corbyn Policies.

"There's a number of ex coal-mining and industrial communities that would happily prove you wrong,"

There's an off cited BBC article, I can't find right now.

Thatcher had little or no impact on UK coal mining. Whether you measure it by production or employment in the sector the coal industry started declining around WW1 and was on a steady downward slide to today. Thatcher's time in office didn't even coincide with a blip.

I understand why posters here won't admit the Guardian is left wing as the paper is against JC the left wing Messiah.

you have to be trolling no one can struggle to this degree. Your claim is on this page if you have forgotten it

outofbreath - Member

Can you post a link to current Corbyn Policies.

I don't provide a free mentoring service.

Btw it's interesting to note that despite your apparent ignorance of Corbyn's policies you maintain this obvious hostility towards him.

Am I right in assuming that you oppose Corbyn because you've been told to oppose him, but you don't really know why?

There's an off cited BBC article, I can't find right now.

Thatcher had little or no impact on UK coal mining. Whether you measure it by production or employment in the sector the coal industry started declining around WW1 and was on a steady downward slide to today. Thatcher's time in office didn't even coincide with a blip.

Google is your friend:

[img] [/img]

Or maybe not, since it makes it so easy to prove that what you say is wrong.

The guardian is surpassing itself tonight on it's website top stories...

[url= http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2016/may/09/jeremy-corbyn-labour-not-doing-enough-to-win-2020-general-election ]Labour not doing enough to win 2020 general election, says Jeremy Corbyn[/url] - This one is particularly poor, more gossip passed off as news. It's like reading a student newspaper. "And then he said this, but someone else who doesn't like him said he was talking rubbish, and everyone else agreed, sort of".

[url= http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2016/may/09/why-that-chart-demonstrating-jeremy-corbyns-election-success-is-misleading ]Why that chart demonstrating Jeremy Corbyn's election success is misleading[/url]

[url= http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2016/may/09/jeremy-corbyn-scruffy-old-fashioned-swing-voters ]'Scruffy' and 'old-fashioned' Corbyn not a hit with swing voters[/url]

Thatcher had little or no impact on UK coal mining

Regardless - the way she handled it was the worst part.

I'm so glad I went for a bike ride...

Kahn supposedly very pointed in a speech he gave at Westminster today making the points required to win an election - middle ground, appeal to business, etc, finished with a look at Corbyn. Also reported by the BBC that Corbyn was heckled/interrupted when trying to put a positive spin on election results.

I'm delighetd to be proven wrong on my guess than the Scottish election would do for Corbyn, it seems finishing third to the SNP and Tories in what was once a Labour heartland is good enough to stay in the job.

DrJ coal could not have survived today's Environmental lobby, its gone in France too and they are far more lefty than are we in the UK. It was only a matter of time. Your chart shows a very clear downward trend, miners strike +/- a few years is a slight varience but downwards slope is clear to see. Coal was used for steel and electricity production, steel was cheaper to make elsewhere and labour was cheaper to build ships etc. Electricity we started to produce by other means. As I have posted before my parents are staunch Labour supporters and they where glad to see the miners defeated after years of power cuts due to strikes.

I think it is quite interesting - conventional wisdom as espoused by political commentators is that elections are won in the centre groud. My understanding of Corbyn's (or the left's generally) thesis is that there is an army of potential voters, who have been effectively disenfranchised in the past by Labour policy. As a result, the "left" look at the results and see they are not going backwards in their rebuilding exercise, the "right" of the Labour party don't see the centre ground being taken because they don't see a need to rebuild from the left. The results neither disprove nor prove either argument - each side is looking at different indicators. I err firmly on the side of convention, but I will be intrigued to see what happens and while confident the experiment will fail, you would be mad to be complacent.

you would be mad to be complacent.

The guardian is surpassing itself tonight on it's website top stories...

I wouldn't worry too much about the Guardian, it's influence within the Labour Movement has always been is grossly exaggerated.

Although many Labour Party members and supporters read the Guardian the candidate which they supported in the leadership contest, Yvette Cooper, only received a frankly derisory 17.0% of the vote, while Jeremy Corbyn managed an astonishing 59.5% of the vote.

jambalaya - Member

"you would be mad to be complacent"

Agreed

Well you've certainly changed your tune. IIRC you were one of the main proponents of the theory that a Corbyn leadership would 100 percent guarantee electoral meltdown for Labour.

What's made you change your mind in the space of a few months ?

conventional wisdom as espoused by political commentators is that elections are won in the centre groud

Indeed, and that assumes that each voter is a fixed entity. They can move, and do. The situation is a little more complex I suspect. However I'm don't know what's going to happen.

@ernie you've misunderstood me, I would never be complacent in an election but I believe Labour have zero chance of winning under Corbyn assuming the Tories do a remotely half decent job of campaigning (something they are however failing to do re: Brexit). Hence my comment about not being complacent

I would never be complacent in an election but I believe Labour have zero chance of winning under Corbyn

If as JY was suggesting it's mainly an image problem Corbyn has, which I mostly agree with, then it's surely an easy thing to fix. Get him a decent fitting suit, bin the corduroy and trim his beard and they're sorted.

For my money I don't think he'll fight the next election, not because of a coup, but because there's a high chance he'll step aside once he's completed his party reforms.

@ernie you've misunderstood me, I would never be complacent in an election but I believe Labour have [b]zero chance of winning under Corbyn[/b] assuming the Tories do a remotely half decent job of campaigning (something they are however failing to do re: Brexit). Hence my comment about not being complacent

"only a Sith deals in absolutes"

As I have posted before my parents are staunch Labour supporters and they where glad to see the miners defeated after years of power cuts due to strikes.

Appeal to parental authority? #jambalogic

Those who seek to blame the demise of coal on Ernie's poster girl show an astonishing lack of historical understanding.

Go and read Crossman's diares for the arguments that the Labour Party were having through the 60s (eg Brown v Callaghan) in terms of how to come to terms with the death spiral that the industry was in (and the creative accounting used to hide the subsidies). Should we artificially hold up prices to support wages in Wales, Scotland and Lancashire??

The rest is history - apart from the revisionist version of course.

As I have posted before my parents are staunch Labour supporters and they where glad to see the miners defeated after years of power cuts due to strikes.

The power strikes were a decade before their defeat and there were none in that decade
The three day week lasted three months on 1974 oh what is the point of this its not like jamby needs accurate facts for his opinions, nor apparently for the claimed opinion of his parents.

Bloody hell Harriet, did you not hear your leader's rallying call yesterday?

Time to stop snipping and back your man - he has the mandate after all.

It sounds to me like she just repeated what Jeremy said yesterday and the press have decided that's an "attack on jc".
Just the usual.

"Those who seek to blame the demise of coal on Ernie's poster girl show an astonishing lack of historical understanding."

To be fair to them its the narrative most of us have grown up with.

Until I looked at the numbers I thought the same.

Bloody media bias !!! 😉

"Bloody media bias !!!"

"Flat Earth News" is worth a read.

TBH a lot of the grievance is about how the decline was managed, or rather not. But I'm never sure how far that's a wee retcon; my uncle blamed thatcher for closing his pit for years but then later on once other pits closed down he stopped that and just blamed her for throwing the towns on the scraphead. Don't think he's wrong, in that, but it's not what he was angry about at the time.

TBH a lot of the grievance is about how the decline was managed, or rather not.

Orgreave, anyone?

Go and read Crossman's diares for the arguments that the Labour Party were having through the 60s (eg Brown v Callaghan) in terms of how to come to terms with the death spiral that the industry was in

Hark back to the fifties and you can witness the Labour Party turning somersaults over unilateral disarmament and whether the PLP or membership ought to pick the leader, ongoing arguments over collective responsibility/party discipline versus conscience based dissent, and the nature of policy making - none of which were ever fully resolved, resulting in the mess we see today.

responsibility/party discipline versus conscience based dissent, and the nature of policy making - none of which were ever fully resolved, resulting in the mess we see today.

Yes that's a uniquely labour party thing isn't it. 🙄

teamhurtmore - Member

Those who seek to blame the demise of coal on Ernie's poster girl ......

THM you are so bad at this sort of stuff that I cringe in embarrassment on your behalf. Truly.

I'm only mentioning it because I feel a moral obligation to those less advantaged.

And in the hope that you might spare me this vicarious embarrassment in the future.

Its ok Ernie, don't feel so ashamed. We are here to help you through it.

First step is acceptance....take it steadily though, its a big step. Plenty of deep breaths. Maybe start by deleting (or posting) one photo at a time.

Might be advisable to delete the Neil Hamilton collection a bit faster though. That really is too much (although perhaps the passing resemblance of his missus to your poster girl in your latest Welsh UKIP post might explain that one too).

Well I see that Tony Blair appears to have dramatically shifted his opinions concerning what a Corbyn leadership might mean for Labour.

9 months ago Tony Blair told us :

[i][b] "If Jeremy Corbyn becomes leader it won't be a defeat like 1983 or 2015 at the next election. It will mean rout, possibly annihilation." [/i][/b]

[url= http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-33896414 ]Labour risks 'annihilation' if Jeremy Corbyn is leader - Tony Blair[/url]

But now he tells us :

[i][b]"Let us say it is not yet a proven concept that Corbynism can win an election".[/i][/b]

[url= http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2016/may/24/tony-blair-questions-whether-jeremy-corbyn-can-win-an-election ]Tony Blair questions whether Jeremy Corbyn can win an election[/url]

So he's gone from talking about possible "annihilation", worse than 1983, which sounds rather serious, to he's not sure if Labour can win under Corbyn's leadership.

I wonder if he still thinks that Labour would be much more certain to win under the leadership of Liz Kendall?

To think that daft sycophants pay a lot of money to listen to this warmongering liar, who is responsible for the worse foreign policy blunder in modern British history, talk.

See, now Thatchers dead, the Lefties still need someone to blame for all their problems 😆

😐

You think that Chilcot will exonerate Tony Blair then ninfan ?

Or are saying that Chilcot is a "leftie" who will blame Blair ?

What is it exactly you're saying ?

Or perhaps more to the point - do you actually even know what you're saying ?

Polls, anyone?

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/jeremy-corbyn-would-make-a-better-prime-minister-than-george-osborne-public-now-believe-a6984436.html

who is responsible for the worse foreign policy blunder in modern British history

Hahaha.. now I'm no Blair fan but he's up against some pretty spectacular competition for that particular accolade!

You think that Chilcot will exonerate Tony Blair then ninfan ?

Or are saying that Chilcot is a "leftie" who will blame Blair ?

What is it exactly you're saying ?

That despite knowing this, the Labour party were happy to keep him as their leader, and the left kept voting for him. They only disowned him after he quit, then pronounced "A big boy did it and ran away"

the Labour party were happy to keep him as their leader, and the left kept voting for him

But you rightwing nutjobs always go on about how Corbyn et al were serial rebels. Which is it?

Blair is just trying a different approach. Corbyn is supposedly as popular as ever amongst Labour supporters despite Labour finishing third to the Tories in Scotland and losing their majority in Wales and Corbyn was asked not to campaign there.

I don't recall Corbyn or any of the fellow travellers launching a leadership challenge against Blair over Iraq. Not so rebellious as to do anything about it then, were they?

So let me get this right ninfan........it's only the left who blame Blair?

If the Chilcot Report is damning it'll only be because Chilcot is a "leftie" ?

.

molgrips - Member

now I'm no Blair fan but he's up against some pretty spectacular competition for that particular accolade!

Absolutely. Yet despite the stiff competition Blair clearly wins. What he did was far worse than the Suez blunder. Look how people have to live the consequences of his actions (putting aside the dead ones).

Keep fighting the fight Ernie, go get 'em cowboy.

his actions

256 Labour MP's voted for the declaration of war, 85 against - Blair don't do anything on his own.

Jezza - i had almost forgotten about him as he has been so quiet on Europe!

Still unlike the fallen-one, he is seemingly a man of principle (sic) and will be calling for the former to be prosecuted for war crimes post Chilcott fingering.

Given this context, the relaxed mood of the fallen one seems a little out-of-kilter.

Ernie - how come you rarely post any piccies of [b]these[/b] guys? Are they not your type?