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What that Michael White piece illustrates, as Polly Toynbee manages in the Guardian every week too, is that while the media criticise politicians for living in a bubble, they're equally as guilty of it, while being just as in denial about it.
Remember it was only a couple of months ago that they were confidently asserting that it would definitely be a hung parliament, and loftily speculating on who would be doing deals with who to establish a coalition
Shows how much they know
Good grief - that Michael White piece was awful. Did he really try to suggest that Corbyn support was a step on the road to Putin-ISISism?
the whole thing is like a pantomime!
oh no, it isn't!
(Sorry about my excessively nasty tone in my last comment, THM, and kudos to you for ignoring it. I should learn to tone it down a bit).
the greatest unifier of the right, is the rise of the crazies that inhabit the hard left!
Well, that and the belief that the UK has a hard left of note!
No probs kona! I was also having a bit of fun with Canute!!
Boo hiss, are they really going to bottle it?
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For the conservative win!
Boo hiss, are they really going to bottle it?
What does that mean, I don't understand - bottle what ?
Anyway if anyone is in easy reach of Croydon and wants to hear what Corbyn has to say for himself he will be at Ruskin House in Coombe Road tomorrow evening at 7pm. It's an open public meeting - all welcome.
[b]Jeremy CorbynLabour Party leadership candidate
Tuesday 4 August 2015, 7pm
Ruskin House, 23 Coombe Road, Croydon, CR0 1BDThose attending will have the opportunity to put questions to him
What does Jeremy stand for:? A prosperous society by investing in people, jobs, homes and our
public services so everyone can achieve their aspirations? Building an economy which works for the many not the few
? Investing in the clean energy of the future
? Stopping renewal of Trident nuclear weapons and Investing the
money in manufacturing, industry, jobs and skills? Celebrating multiculturalism and its social and economic advantages[/b]
Bottle the decisions that everyone (barr Blairites) wants - a genuine LW ticket at the top. What's the point of having Flint as an offset unless she is perceived as a mere token like Prescott. But she is too bright for that.
still more likely to Tom and Jerry though, surely? Unless Eileen (75) and Roy (74) can swing it for their lad.
Can't imagine any of the other contenders having any principles at all (unless they were temporary):
[url= https://theworldturnedupsidedownne.wordpress.com/2015/07/29/15-times-jeremy-corbyn-was-on-the-right-side-of-history/ ]15 times when Jeremy Corbyn was on the right side of history[/url]
Some of those are valid. Others are simply 'times when Jeremy Corbyn agreed with me'.
Indeed 😀
He was arrested for a political protest, I am surprised he would be allowed to be a politician, don't they have laws to stop the politically active entering public office and parliament.
Don't know about laws, but they certainly seem to have party rules to stop anyone with principles getting anywhere.
Ken Clarke reckons Jezza could be PM.
http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/2015/08/03/jeremy-corbyn-ken-clarke-labour_n_7925964.html?1438614331
Interesting point made by Ken Clarke
Blair is very unpopular in this country, and Jeremy Corbyn fits the bill of being anti-political.
I don't doubt the claim but the media still heavily emphasises Blair's alleged popularity, the "very unpopular" allegation is one which is rarely if ever made.
In fact we are constantly being told that for Labour to win the next general election it must be led by someone just like Blair, the complete opposite of what Ken Clarke has said.
Ken is just trying to help Corbyn get the job.
Blair is unpopular but someone like him (ie presentable, honest kind of a guy, perceived as being very centrist) would be very electable still by my reckoning - I don't think that saying that Labour need someone like Blair is inherently wrong.
No one really knows if they'll do better with 'someone like Blair' (Son of Blair) or the anti-Blair. I'd like to see Corbyn get elected but only if that means we actually get some effective opposition from Labour rather than the completely ineffective lot we have currently.
Indeed and poor bloke normally gets the wrong end of the stick.
The panto is amusing especially the Torygraph getting its knickers in a twist, The last bloke to get over hyped like this was old Cleggie - remember him?
Cameron is just a Blair clone and it seems to have worked well enough for him
While people like the idea of an apparently honest, MP that actually cares about other people, doesn't flip house or rinse out expenses, when it gets to election time they vote for the self serving establishment friendly corporate yesman
Blair is unpopular but someone like him (ie presentable, honest kind of a guy.......
I'm not sure how someone who will be remembered in history as an unrepentant liar, and who some people deliberately misspell their name "Bliar" can be seen as an "honest kind of a guy"
I don't think he is seen that way (it's his quote though). I'm not taking about Blair but rather someone else who isn't Blair but shares the same characteristics that resonated with people before he was found out.
I like him, an alternative to the Tory line in the current Labour Party.
Just watched him being interviewed on C4 news, I thought he was clear and sincere with his answers.
Hope he becomes the Labour leader, could be an interesting opposition to the Tory government.
....but shares the same characteristics that resonated with people before he was found out.
Oh come on, the Tories had been in government for 18 years, that's about as long as the British electorate can stomach one party remaining in power.
The Tories were in a mess, their "Back to Basics" campaign had turned into a complete farce, dodgy Tory minister Neil Hamilton was exposed, another Tory minister, Jonathan Aitken, managed to end up in prison, as also did the Conservative Party Deputy Chairman and Tory mayoral candidate Jeffrey Archer.
Election victory in 1997 was handed on a plate to Labour. With some encourage from Rupert Murdoch.
During the 10 years that Tony Blair was Prime Minister Labour Party membership more than halved and Labour lost 4 million votes nationally. What saved Labour was the growth in LibDem support which split the anti-Labour vote - the Tories remained discredited for many years after they lost power.
I've just realised who he looks like
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Quite a few depressing things have come to light due to Corbyn. He has shone a light into the inner views of mainsteam politicians.
- We are told by both mainsteam political parties we the population are mentally incompetent to have any views that vary at all from their own near identical centre right agendas. From that we see we have become virtually a one party state.
- That our representatives (and ex representatives) from all parties feel entitled to be verbally abusive and bulling to their employers (us the population) in ways that would get people sacked in any normal employee/employer situation.
- Why have a decent set of policies people will back out of free choice, when you can just sneer or manipulate instead?
- That mainstream politicians have no interest in promoting any form of real voice for the population, only wishing to play pretend democracy.
- Politicians in general are still too determined to feel complacent contempt to understand why people are rebelling.
Whatever happens Corbyn has done us all a favour by showing us how things have become between population and the leaders they have elected.
The comments from politicians from both Con and Lab plus the 3 'policy free' Labour candidates are driving people towards Corbyn in droves and still do not have the sense to keep quiet.
Thankfully Corbyn genuinely deserves the votes he is getting.
As I have said before, I know of 5 people who have joined to vote for him, none of which were very political before.
As I have said before, I know of 5 people who have joined to vote for him, none of which were very political before
I know a fair few who have joined up to vote for him too. I'm teetering on the brink of doing it myself but not sure I can be arsed with some party stooge questioning me on my labour supporting credentials.
not sure I can be arsed with some party stooge questioning me on my labour supporting credentials.
The young guy who rang me up to take my details was fine. He sounded as if he had overdosed on caffeine and kept repeating "spot on" when I answered questions, including questions such as my name and where I live, which amused me greatly. He was obviously desperately trying to be nice and friendly.
Gordon Bennet, the blame culture gets worse.
Midnighthour - Member
- We are told by both mainsteam political parties we the population are mentally incompetent to have any views that vary at all from their own near identical centre right agendas.
Which country are you referring to? Never heard anything like that in UK. Ever considered, that the bulk of the U.K. a has moderate centrist views and that is why centrist parties just happen to do well in the democratic process? Just a thought...
From that we see we have become virtually a one party state.
No really. Is the rest serious?
Corbyn genuinely deserves the votes he is getting.
He does indeed and the scrutiny (not the current media panto and hype) that goes with it. Oddly, Torygraph and Dan Hodges aside, the first signs of this are Chris Leslie in the New Statesmen of all places.
As I have said before, I know of 5 people who have joined to vote for him, none of which were very political before.
A landslide!!!
I reckon he much be getting a little embarrassed by the current hoopla and razzmatazz - mostly media hype and a long way from the "genuine" politics he chooses to represent. From Cleggmania to Corbynmania with Mrs C Mk3 drawn unwittingly in at some stage no doubt.
What a miserable job.
"we have become virtually a one party state."
in the politest possible way, this is cobblers.
Whilst to claim a "virtual" one party state is an exaggeration I have no doubt that much of the electorate would agree the sentiments behind Midnighthour's comment.
The political hegemony of the main parties, combined with an electoral system which is stacked in their favour, and policies which are fundamentally identical, leaves people feeling that they aren't presented with any meaningful choices (and their politicians discredited) which they perceive to be not that far removed from a one party system.
For many people Jeremy Corbyn challenges that depressing state of affairs, which explains his apparent growing popularity - that I believe was Midnighthour's point.
To add to the refreshing nature of Corbyn he is neither a racist nor a bigot. I've yet to discover how well he can hold a pint of beer and grin gormlessly though.
I've yet to discover how well he can hold a pint of beer and grin gormlessly though.
Teetotal vegetarian apparently... like Hitler 😉
mind you, he's supposedly dipped his wick with Diane Abbott in her formative years, so chapeau for that!
I don't have much to add other than I encourage Corbyns election. I don't know if he could make me vote Labour, that'll depend on how he changes the Labour party and their actions over the next 5 years. But his election would be a very encouraging start imo. I'd love to see English and Welsh voters get behind him. I'm unsure if I want Scottish voters to get behind him, as yet, but the potential is there for me to change my mind on that.
much the same among my social circle--a few who have given up on parlimentary politrickery have registered to vote -these are people who have not voted for many years due to the choiices on offer --all peddlars of free market capitalism --cronies really -and now by default the labour party has allowed us to vote for a genuine socialist -its no wonder he is getting huge support --
I just watched Corbyns interview on Newsnight and wondered why it didn't feel quite right. Then I realised its because I was watching a politician actually answering the questions he was asked, rather than completely ignoring it, and just parroting soundbites sent to him from central office . And he spoke in language familiar to normal people, rather than Westminster policy think tanks
It goes to show just where our political system is that that felt like pretty groundbreaking stuff
Can't see that doing his popularity much harm
The parliamentary party know Corbyn cannot win a general election, even if he wins the vote he's likely to face a rebellion. If it's proven he took money from Hamas, an internationally recognised terrorist organisation, to vist Gaza he won't survive even as an MP.
You say that as if a split in the labour party would be a bad thing? 😆jambalaya - Member
The parliamentary party know Corbyn cannot win a general election, even if he wins the vote he's likely to face a rebellion.
jambalaya - Member
The parliamentary party know Corbyn cannot win a general election, even if he wins the vote he's likely to face a rebellion....
Wouldn't it be simpler for the Red Tories in the Labour Party to join a party that reflects their real beliefs.
Like UKIP or the Conservative Party?
[quote=jambalaya ]The parliamentary party [s]know[/s] think Corbyn cannot win a general election, FTFY
jambalaya - MemberThe parliamentary party know Corbyn cannot win a general election
They thought Miliband would do that, and backed the mighty Jim Murphy to the hilt, so they should probably be giving some thought to the quality of their judgement.
The parliamentary party know Corbyn cannot win a general election
Which is why Blair and his stooges are supporting Liz Kendall, the least talented candidate and the one with the least public support. It's hard to imagine a more obvious and guaranteed loser than Liz Kendall.
Blair, Mandelson, and all the other self-serving New Labour politicians, would be more than happy to see the Tories win in 2020 than Labour led by Corbyn. And why wouldn't they be ffs ? Give me one convincing reason.
And btw the EU gave money to Hamas. The UK considers the Izz ad-Din al-Qassam Brigades to be a terrorist organisation but not Hamas. I have no idea why you think Corbyn might lose his seat due to his long standing support for talks with Hamas. Nick Clegg didn't lose his seat despite calling for precisely that :
[url= http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2014/aug/01/israel-hamas-gaza-resolve-conflict ]Israel must open talks with Hamas[/url]
Talking is a vital instrument in securing peace.
Not everyone shares your unwavering pro-Zionist opinions jambalaya, you might not vote for those who don't but it doesn't mean that others won't.
seosamh77 - MemberYou say that as if a split in the labour party would be a bad thing?
I actually think jambalaya is right on that. A rebellion by the hard right is pretty much guaranteed, their contempt for democracy and the wishes of Labour Party members is indisputable imo.
In fact this leadership contest has exposed just how utterly out of touch the Labour political elite is with their own party, never mind the British people.
Jeremy Corbyn's huge support within the Labour Party comes as a complete shock to them, they had absolutely no idea. Why ffs ? How could they be so out of touch with a party which they are fully paid up members of ?
The fact that they are so surprised and shocked exposes the complete lack of inner-party democracy in the Labour Party. And how unconnected and divorced they are from the party they belong to. Is it any wonder that they are disconnected and divorced from traditional Labour voters, and for that matter much of the rest of the British electorate ?
I went to the Jeremy Corbyn meeting in Croydon tonight and he was asked the question of rebellion by the Parliamentary Labour Party should he become leader. I'm not sure he really answered the question but he had earlier talked extensively about reintroducing democracy into the party and taking collective decisions. Which for me was the most important thing I wanted to hear.
But far from having a negative effect like seosamh I would actually welcome a right-wing rebellion.
For literally decades I have heard the tired old mantra about "winning the party back", nothing has been even remotely done over many years to win the party back. This leadership contest however is the first serious attempt since the Blairites seized power to do precisely that.
I believe that it will ultimately fail, even if Corbyn wins the leadership contest, the hard right will make certain of that.
It will however make the case for a new party of the left even more compelling, to the point that demand will guarantee it.
Burnham had stated hed renationalise the railways
The Corbyn effect !
And jamby, we'll be allied with Hamas soon enough in the fight against IS (It ll piss off the Israelis and particularly the baby burning settlers )
good points ernie --indeed , exposing the labour party machine for what it is , is probbly the thing that freaks the 'right' out--voters wont be too bothered at the moment , but a Corbyn leadership would bring things to the boil-- hopefully a load of deadwood will just drift away-after all they have no roots, no support, just self serving apparachniks that have riden the gravy train --all those career politicians can do one --the very idea of a career -it shouild be an honour to represent people-but you are right to be wary of the 'right' -but on the other hand , they are a smoke and mirror brigade with no real support, that JC is building/re awakening --a new party of the left would be good in my opinion --untainted by the husk of blairism...no doubt you'll here the 'it will never happen in this country ' nonsense........
It will however make the case for a new party of the left even more compelling, to the point that demand will guarantee it.
That case has always been there, but we all know it won't happen, for a whole load of reasons. The best, and perhaps only chance of the left re-asserting itself is the Corbyn leadership bid. This is one of the reasons he's so popular, people who had previously given up on any hope of a left-leaning party ever having a chance of power (I count myself one of them), have suddenly realised it might be possible. It's funny to think that changing the leadership voting system could be Ed Miliband's greatest legacy. Still haven't signed up yet though, might get round to it later today.
The parliamentary party know Corbyn cannot win a general election, even if he wins the vote he's likely to face a rebellion. If it's proven he took money from Hamas, an internationally recognised terrorist organisation, to vist Gaza he won't survive even as an MP.
It may well be the case that Corbyn can't win the next election, but looking at the other candidates, I fail to see why their prospects are any better, so we might as well go with someone who actually has something to say.
You'll have to explain the problem with accepting an invitation from a democratically elected government...
It's very amusing when political parties lose the plot. Remember the Toties thinking that IDS and even Howard were capable of winning. Do people really believe that Corbyn is seen a future PM? Really? Pretty much everything is stacked against him and at the end of the day voters see through spin (ok Scotland aside for the time being).
Perhaps this whole muddle is caused by the clinging to Jurassic notions of LW v RW or even class when the results of the last election indicate that neither wer causal factors (Lab won 41% of the DE group and we're equal to the Tories in C2>. Still if you ask the wrong question, you will get the wrong solution. And this are Labour left enough etc is completely the wrong question.
Still it keeps the hacks happy and is amusing to watch if a little depressing when there are real issues to address.
As for the comments on people not voting - the 2015 election was the highest turnabout since '97 - perhaps the real point is what happened to voters share in different segments and why Labour are not perceived as being relevant to some of the big groups. That's the trouble with representative democracy you have to represent the interests of the majority not those clinging to old fashioned notions of the 20th Century. Still all good fun to watch.
And the SNP must be loving it - more reasons why they escape proper scrutiny. Handed on a plate.......