I wonder this this will go viral. If it does "hello mum"
It's pretty simple really - they don't care:
About our safety or the consequences of their actions.As long as they can get away with it they will.
In some cases I agree however the majority of the time this has happened to me it seems to be a simple case of just not thinking ahead, rather than deliberate. Or maybe I'm being naive in trying to give people the benefit of the doubt, I prefer stupidity to sociopathy.
mdavids - Member
In some cases I agree however the majority of the time this has happened to me it seems to be a simple case of just not thinking ahead, rather than deliberate.
Hmmm.
I think I'm a bit more cynical than you. 😀
Problem is, every driver has been made aware of the importance of thinking ahead - it's drilled into everyone when learning and constantly emphasised in the Highway Code.
Not doing so is a deliberate choice.
Everyone knows how to drive properly and conscientiously.
We know what might happen if we don't.
Choosing to drive carelessly or dangerously isn't just 'a case of not thinking ahead'.
In some cases I agree however the majority of the time this has happened to me it seems to be a simple case of just not thinking ahead, rather than deliberate. Or maybe I'm being naive in trying to give people the benefit of the doubt, I prefer stupidity to sociopathy.
I think you're right, but the big issue with roads at the moment (imo of course!) is that it is socially acceptable and defensible in court to be stupid and drive with out proper care/attention. You just need to look at the way driving offences are dealt with to understand this. The fact that people's bans are shortened because they're of good character or show remorse is one example - why should this make a difference to whether they were or were not paying proper attention to the road?
This type of incident is an ideal opportunity for someone well liked and respected like Chris Boardman to say to the general public
"look, this is why cyclists get arsey and feel the need to carry head cams, this is what JC should have done and this is how [b]you[/b] should drive around cyclists. There's no point overtaking there as you're not getting anywhere faster and you're puttng someones life in danger"
All we want is for drivers to give us time and space, rather than force a pointless and potentially dangerous overtake.
Wouldn't it be even better if Clarkson himself put his hands up and offered to do this?
If his TV persona is just an act, as the vast majority on here seem to believe, then I'm sure he'd be more than happy to apologise to our fellow forum user and explain that he made a mistake.
Non-cycling drivers couldn't care less what Chris Boardman says to them.
They'd hang on Clarkson's every word though.
^ that would wreck the brand.
Wouldn't it be even better if Clarkson himself put his hands up and offered to do this?
Definately. Highly unlikely unfortunately, he doesn't seem the type to accept criticism of his driving.
mdavids - Member
This type of incident is an ideal opportunity for someone well liked and respected like Chris Boardman to say to the general public
Boardman defended some indefensible cycling near me in Cheshire recently not the best person...
Boardman defended some indefensible cycling near me in Cheshire recently not the best person...
What was that then?
Non-cycling drivers couldn't care less what Chris Boardman says to them.
Most of my cycling buddies think CB did a prologue and once tried to compete in a TDF ,all these poster board cyclists are about as far removed from tales of commuting strife as could be possible. Though I'm sure someone will pipe up that sir Bradley got run over once upon a time and therefore he's the same as the helmet warrior squad.
So how their opinion would be relevant is a bit abstract. I dare say the cycling he does these days is more about cashing cheques than any real advocate.However in the same way I don't know JC personally I don't know CB personally either so it's better to just consign myself to the fact I'm an opinionated arsehole
misinformer - Member
So how their opinion would be relevant is a bit abstract. I dare say the cycling he does these days is more about cashing cheques than any real advocate.
CB has appeared on morning TV with well thought out pro cycling arguments.
Probably got paid to put his,if they even were his? pro cycling views he probably tried to get Halfords ads in the commercial breaks,<----- childish comment but wouldn't put it past the PR set
Of course he did.
Well if you know the way breakfast TV works why don't you tell us how the media is so impartial
There was a right shit storm when the daft bint who tweeted running a guy off the road appeared on morning TV ,The cycling world found out she was getting a fee too 🙄
There's a difference, misinformer (appropriate username). Daft bint was only interested in making some money, whereas CB is actually interested in cycling safety. Maybe they did pay him - I imagine it's fairly standard practice to do so - but I'm fairly sure he would happily do such stuff for free (it's not like he needs the money from those sources). I don't know him directly, but my sister knows his family and from what I've heard I reckon you're being very unfair on him.
In some cases I agree however the majority of the time this has happened to me it seems to be a simple case of just not thinking ahead, rather than deliberate.
So a simple case of bad driving. Which could easily turn into a collision (and I know people for whom it has). It should be treated as careless/dangerous driving.
There's a difference, misinformer (appropriate username). Daft bint was only interested in making some money, whereas CB is actually interested in cycling safety. Maybe they did pay him - I imagine it's fairly standard practice to do so - but I'm fairly sure he would happily do such stuff for free (it's not like he needs the money from those sources). I don't know him directly, but my sister knows his family and from what I've heard I reckon you're being very unfair on him.
Exactly , you don't know him, I'm not being unfair on anyone though of course your entitled to your opinion, which realistically like mine and anyone else not in a position to actually change or make any real impact on cycling policy or law in the country means sweet F all.
Aggressive driving meets defensive cycling, its a regular occurance. I don't see why JC felt the need to misrepresent the encounter, other than being a dick about it...
Chris Boardman is an excellent spokesperson for cycle safety. In fact I'm not sure I've heard anyone do it better.
You might want to follow Carlton Reid then?
In some cases I agree however the majority of the time this has happened to me it seems to be a simple case of just not thinking ahead, rather than deliberate.
So a simple case of bad driving. Which could easily turn into a collision (and I know people for whom it has). It should be treated as careless/dangerous driving.
I totally agree. We could certainly do with a few more high profile convictions for crap driving to sharpen up peoples skills and attitudes.
My point was only that I'd rather attribute bad driving to stupidity than a desire to maim and kill, its an attitude that allows me to leave the house. My opinion of the general public is generally quite low anyway without thinking everyone wants to see me dead when I'm on my bike (although I certainly ride with that in mind)
You might want to follow Carlton Reid then?
I find Carlton Reid to be more your stereotypically biased cycle campaigner. A little preachy, maybe. I don't mind him, he raises great points, but he does it very, loudly. A bit in your face. Some people would take it as being aggressive. Or of an opposing side. I find Boardman to be much more balanced and rational, in a way that the general non-cycling public can warm to. He's friendly and just always comes across as very sensible, and you find yourself nodding your head all the way.
Just caught up on this.
I'd be astonished if JC was prosecuted based on the strength of the evidence. "Sorry officer, but I got out of my car to take the picture whilst waiting at the crossing."
Yeah - you'd need a witness.
Oh - hang on.....
I'd be astonished if JC was prosecuted based on the strength of the evidence. "Sorry officer, but I got out of my car to take the picture whilst waiting at the crossing."
Then then he'd be illegally parked.
[i]Everybody[/i] should wear head-web-cam, 24-7.
Is illegal parking more serious than wasting police time?
Face facts, clarkson could have run him over, and still **** all would be done about it.
^ Unless you're a copper....
Def a complaint to The Times due here, and JC getting reported to the Police for using a mobile phone when driving
Bring on self-driving cars...
I'd be astonished if JC was prosecuted based on the strength of the evidence. "Sorry officer, but I got out of my car to take the picture whilst waiting at the crossing."
Then then he'd be illegally parked.
But then there may well be recorded CCTV of the area, from static cameras or from other vehicles,perhaps even a police officer who believed he was there, and then suddenly remebered he wasnt, and got prosecuted.
Just one of those things that happen everyday, and where nobody gets hurt only the fashion Police, and twitterists /forumites.
CBA, Sherlock's coming on.
No PSA's on here for Top Gear in future then?... 🙂
project - MemberJust one of those things that happen everyday, and where nobody gets hurt only the fashion Police, and twitterists /forumites.
Really?
JC is, sadly, one of the most influential journalists in Britain*.
He has constantly insisted, as have his acolytes, that his TV persona is merely an act, a mere bluff and he is in fact, just an ickle fwuffy kitten who weally, weally wuves cyclists.
Well, he's now shown that to be a lie.
Sadly, there will still be cyclists who continue to believe he doesn't really hold them in contempt or consider them to be lower forms of life.
Oooh, look, he's just blown up a caravan! Ohh, he's laughing at the little one again etc, etc.
* The same country that gave us Russel Bulgin, Laughing Len Setright, George Bishop, Mark Williams and Phil Llewellyn.
God forgive us.
[quote=misinformer ]Exactly , you don't know him
Except that unlike you I'm not basing my opinion solely on how he appears in public. I'm assuming that you don't have a direct relative who does know him and his family very well.
[quote=misinformer ]You might want to follow Carlton Reid then?
curiously, CR follows JC (though he also follows me, so I wouldn't read too much into that!)
He just kept shouting increduously 'you were four feet from the kerb, but you were four feet from the kerb, I'm a cyclist and you were four feet from the kerb!'.
Maybe Clarkson can be destroyed in the eyes of his car worshipping cyclist hating devotees with this admission that he's a cyclist!
Shame then that he doesn't seem to know anything about defensive cycling and chooses to attack his fellow cyclists.
Seriously though, you would hope something sticks about this. If anything could get through to the typical driver's mentality, Clarkson getting busted and the aftermath possibly could achieve something beneficial.
Edit: Just imagine if he's a regular club MAMIL, such a photo would be astounding.
Edit: Just imagine if he's a regular club MAMIL, such a photo would be astounding.
disturbing more like, hes got quite a belly on him, I reckon he wears a girdle for the TV!
Words I never expected to write: a brilliant article by Jeremy Vine in the DM (please do click through, it's worth reading)
[url= http://tinyurl.com/mqhqhhn ]http://www.dailyma?l.co.uk/news/article-2538377/Why-drivers-want-kill-Death-threats-Near-misses-A-run-Clarkson-Radio-2-host-scared-cyclist-JEREMY-VINE-terrors-faces-road.html[/url]
[mod edit - text C&P'ed on the following page for your convenience]
Text of DM article;
[i]The driver of the silver Volkswagen never saw me. That’s what I would like to believe.
Certainly, she seemed unaware as she executed her manoeuvre: a gentle overtake on the right, then a sudden violent yank on the steering wheel which sent her car slewing left across the path of my bicycle.
I caught a glimpse of the driver, a brown-haired woman laughing heartily with her passenger.
I want to say I was shocked by such unthinking driving. But after a year cycling on the roads of London — something I began only because I was sick of paying £80 a month to a gym I never visited — I was not remotely surprised.
I did not even raise an eyebrow as I squeezed hard on both brakes and felt my back wheel skid. Having avoided an impact with the unpredictable VW by only a couple of feet, I came to a stop.
I put my left foot on the kerb, adjusted my gloves, took a deep breath and saw the mist leave my mouth in the cold air. Yep: I was definitely still alive. The offending car pulled off happily down a side street.
The near-miss is a daily occurrence when you ride a bike in any city in Britain. But for me there was one outstanding feature of this incident as I made my way towards Hammersmith: I had captured it on film.
A friend who was aware I’d started cycling to work gave me a helmet camera and some advice. ‘Try it,’ he said, ‘because you’ll want to review your journeys when you get home.’
It didn’t sound like an appetising way to spend free evenings, but I now have a collection of movie thrillers to rival anything by Hitchcock.
And, thanks to social media, I have been able to share them.
My feelings about Twitter are mixed — no one will say on their deathbed they wished they had spent more time on it — but it does give you a simple way of comparing experiences.
When I posted about the incident with the VW, I was deluged by supportive comments from other cyclists as well as clips of narrow squeaks ten times more terrifying.
‘Welcome to our world,’ the riders all said.
Despite such narrow run-ins, I am OK. Today, yes. Far, far fitter than when I belonged to that gym (and nearly two stone lighter). But tomorrow? I don’t know if I will be OK tomorrow.
Every morning when I leave the house, my wife says farewell in the manner of Japanese women who waved off pilot husbands in World War II.
If nothing else, cycling in a major British city reminds you to make a will and tell your mum you love her.
But why is it so dangerous?
Car drivers have no reason to hate cyclists. If we all gave up our two wheels and bought 4x4s, the whole country would be stuck in a jam from Kingston to Kilmarnock.
Cycling is clean, efficient and very cheap. My last car service cost more than £900; when I had my bicycle looked over, the fellow apologetically charged me £72.
More...
Tesco driver causes road chaos by making illegal U-turn in huge articulated lorry 'which put pedestrian in danger'
Harley-Davidson rider injured when he was 'shunted off bike by angry bus driver' is sent a HIGH-VIS JACKET by transport firm
But when I said that I wanted to believe the silver VW driver never saw me, it is because the alternative is too ghastly to contemplate. She did see me and was quite happy to run me off the road.
And that is why she was laughing.
Since a spate of fatal accidents involving cyclists in London, hundreds of officers have been monitoring the city's most dangerous junctions and roads
Since a spate of fatal accidents involving cyclists in London, hundreds of officers have been monitoring the city's most dangerous junctions and roads
Some drivers do seem to resent, even hate, cyclists and this makes cycling more dangerous than any pothole or badly designed T-junction.
It is great that Mayor Boris Johnson and his ‘cycle czar’ Andrew Gilligan — both keen cyclists — are asking for ways to make cyclists safer in London after six died in a fortnight last November, but I fear they will miss the point.
The biggest danger is not road layout but road users. The hostility of some drivers is mind-boggling.
Take the day I got caught on Marble Arch by a car that had roared through a light just as it turned red.
The man ripped through the air inches from me and caused serious panic, so I thought I would gently let him know that he would soon hurt someone.
I caught up with his car at the next traffic light. I try to be polite at all times, calling other road users ‘sir’ and ‘madam’ so they know I am not one of those expletive-spewing Lycra louts. It is always possible they might be a Radio 2 listener, after all.
So I knocked gently on the man’s passenger-side window and said: ‘Sir, just to let you know, you nearly killed me back there.’
'I know our crowded capital will become a far better place if many thousands of people do what I did and take up cycling to work, but most of my friends are simply too scared and with reason'. File picture
'I know our crowded capital will become a far better place if many thousands of people do what I did and take up cycling to work, but most of my friends are simply too scared and with reason'. File picture
The driver, an unshaven Mediterranean-looking man in a pale suit, leant over and bared his teeth, hissing in broken English: ‘I. WANT. TO. KILL. YOU.’
Now that did take me aback.
In the morning, I dress like a U.S. Navy Seal on his way to shoot Bin Laden. I am kitted out like a soldier and sometimes behave like one because London’s roads are a battlefield and my life is at stake.
The £165 light on my helmet is so powerful it will temporarily dazzle any driver I direct it at — unfortunately necessary to ensure he doesn’t suddenly shoot out of a side street and push me into a bus.
The camera sits beside it. My bike is fitted with a total of three other lights, and there are two more flashing reds on the back of my cycle helmet to make sure an HGV truck doesn’t simply ride straight over me.
Vine entered into a Twitter row with Jeremy Clarkson over the rights of cyclists
Vine entered into a Twitter row with Jeremy Clarkson over the rights of cyclists
I wear a fluorescent tunic that says POLITE in an official-looking font on the back in the faint hope that it might cause the aggressive motorist behind to let up on the revving for just a second. Fat chance.
Waterproof trousers and a new padlock were my most exciting Christmas presents.
Oh, and I have now had an airhorn fitted to my handlebars, so loud it can probably be heard in Costa Rica. I used it this week when a pedestrian wearing super-sized green headphones left the pavement on impulse and walked across my path with his back to me. The 115 decibels almost knocked him off his feet, but at least we both survived the encounter.
Pedestrians can be as much a danger as a speeding car. If you are a driver, the chances are that you are reading this with a succession of four-letter words coming to mind. You’ve probably had heart-stopping encounters with reckless cyclists. But can I plead for your understanding?
I never cross red lights. I don’t ride on the pavement — unless a particular stretch of road looks very unsafe.
A few days ago, the speed-hungry Top Gear presenter Jeremy Clarkson posted a tweet which read: ‘It’s middle of the road point-makers like this who make car drivers so angry about cyclists.’
It showed a picture of a cyclist innocently occupying the middle of the lane just short of a zebra crossing.
My understanding is that the Highway Code, the Department of Transport and the Institute of Advanced Motorists all recommend that cyclists ‘take the lane’ when it is too narrow for a car to overtake safely.
So, in a state of fury and probably without thinking for long enough, I replied to Clarkson: ‘He has every right — you muppet.’
This then triggered the Twitter equivalent of a brawl in a Wild West saloon, where anyone within earshot (in Twitter terms, the thousands of people who follow us both) felt free to throw chairs and tables around.
I was told by several people that I ‘should not be on the road because you do not pay road tax’ (never mind that I do, on my car).
Another tweeter said Clarkson ‘should have knocked the cyclist over because that spot is near a hospital’. One wrote: ‘Run him down like the dog in Lycra he is!’
A few weighed in against Clarkson, but it was clear to me that he had won the argument in the eyes of the audience. Sure, on Twitter such a spat is entertaining. But take that hostility on to the road — put that angry mind in charge of a metal hulk on four wheels or even 12 — and it becomes a threat to the life of any cyclists.
Which is why London is simply terrifying for any person on a bicycle.
I know our crowded capital will become a far better place if many thousands of people do what I did and take up cycling to work, but most of my friends are simply too scared and with reason.
I am now one near-miss away from selling my bike and getting back in the car, which would make Jeremy Clarkson happy at least.
The sad fact is that I feel like I have become involved in a war that puts my life at risk every time I strap on my helmet. And all I wanted was a narrower waistband and to save £80 on the gym.
[/i]
STW doesn't allow direct links to the Daily Fail website because it finds it an "abhorrent publication".
Pathetic.
Thanks, wwaswas. 🙂
... and then provides a link ... 🙄
[quote=Mr Woppit ]STW doesn't allow direct links to the Daily Fail website because it finds it an "abhorrent publication".
You should find direct link works now 😉
(mods - I think it's justified in this case, and promise not to do it again!)
too late I already went over to the fail website aaaargghhh!
(unlike woppit I have the wit to cut and paste a link, something that is obviously enough to outsmart its fans)
