[Closed] Jailed for withholding computer password

Surely there are other ways to get access to the harddrive that dont need the password.

aracer - Member
> http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-11479831

The implication is that this bloke was doing dodgy stuff - but it seems he's not been charged with anything to do with that, innocent until proven guilty and all that.

But he's not innocent. He's guilty of withholding a password. And that's what he has been found guilty of and sentenced for. In my simple term, I'd say that was obstructing the police in conducting an investigation.

Surrounded By Zulus - Member
Surely there are other ways to get access to the harddrive that dont need the password.

Eventually....

50 character password! that is admirable dedication, be hilarious if you then forgot it.

hmm sounds like he has some serious encryption. But I agree it seems wrong to be jailed just for not giving your password, they must have had some other evidence/suspicions..

I think - if the cops turn up at your house with a search warrant and you obstruct entry to your property, you are committing an offence and can go to jail. If the offence they got the warrant to investigate is computer-related, then it follows that obstructing access to the computer is an offence, no?

He should have used TrueCrypt's 'duress' system

I would have thought withholding information would come under the protective umbrella of the right to remain silent, obviously not the case though.

Another set of repressive legislation that should receive a review/repeal from the new government.

I think - if the cops turn up at your house with a search warrant and you obstruct entry to your property, you are committing an offence and can go to jail. If the offence they got the warrant to investigate is computer-related, then it follows that obstructing access to the computer is an offence, no?

I was thinking along these lines.

Trouble with computery stuff, is that it's not too difficult to encrypt individual documents as well as entire drives. A friend works in document security software; their products are banned in France apparently because they breach French laws on the level of security for electronic data. IE, too difficult to crack their codes.

It's also not too difficult to booby-trap files to self-destruct should any unauthorised attempt to access them be made. The police's job is a difficult and sometimes impossible one, when it comes to data investigation.

Of course, the old adage of 'if you've got nothing to hide...' comes up, but there are issues of privacy called into scrutiny in cases such as this; you should have the right to some ultimate privacy. Innocent until proven guilty, right to silence etc. A computer, like a diary, can contain very personal things, which others have no right to see regardless of any criminal investigation. It's part of a person's Human Rights.

I would have said that the "right to remain silent" would apply here.

It's also not too difficult to booby-trap files to self-destruct should any unauthorised attempt to access them be made.

Oh aye? 😛

A computer, like a diary, can contain very personal things, which others have no right to see regardless of any criminal investigation.

Yes Grum; one might have original designs and stuff that they wouldn't want rivals to see. Back up the files to a secure location, set automatic destruction should anyone try to access them on a network at a work computer.

Why, what were you thinking of? 🙄

ISTM there must be a market for a product which encrypts your data with two different passwords - one normal one, and one to give to the police, which hides/destroys anything [s]dodgy[/s] of a personal nature during the decrypt process.

So, say the filth came to my door with a search warrant and found a safe (booby trapped) in the wall where I got my gunz and shit. Do I have to give them the combination?

I would have just said I'd forgotten it.

Did the cops try the helpline?
I bet they didnt.
They'll read this & thank me.

Why, what were you thinking of?

Dunno just thought maybe you were a terrorist or something? I heard you talking about Islam in a non-derogatory way once you see. 😛

you have a right to say nothing!

unless he/she is accused of kiddie pron then he/she has NO rights ... in My world anyways 🙂 HTH

Imagine if he wasn't jailed. Imagine if you could have the same rights to prevent the police accessing your property...

'Have you any guns/drugs/bombs/illegal sex-slaves/abducted children in your house sir'

'No'

'Can we come in and have a look'

'No, it's locked and I'm not giving you the key, jog on'

'Ok Sir, as you were'

there must be a market for a product which encrypts your data with two different passwords

That's assuming it doesn't already exist. Truecrypt, to name but one.

Amateurs.

Dunno just thought maybe you were a terrorist or something? I heard you talking about Islam in a non-derogatory way once you see.

Oh yeah, good point actually. I'm Brown as well. 😯

Can't be too careful, can you? 😐

i find it hard to believe he has nothing to hide and as Yeti notes it would be odd if we allowed suspected criminals to refuse a search which is effectively what he has done. They got a warrant to search his computer for child sexual exploitation so they must have had some evidence in the first place. I see the human rights issue in general terms but not in this case.
If I was charged with child pron offences and all that was required was my password to clear my name then I would give my password to the plods.
I would not even need the threat of 4 mths in prison to persuade me. Would anyone not give up their password rather than do 4 mths in prison?

I can't help but suspect that the police investigate the said gentleman following information obtained as part of their child sex exploitation investigation and if he decided that a jail term was worth witholding the password for then I would also suspect that what he had on the hard drive might lead to a far heavier sentence.

I hope they crack the password and give him what is coming to him (be it a life of showertime buggery or a formal apology...)

So, say the filth came to my door with a search warrant and found a safe (booby trapped) in the wall where I got my gunz and shit. Do I have to give them the combination?

😆

Come lets be honest he is hiding his code cos he has disgusting images on his PC, He'll be away for a lot longer when they crack it.

On reflection I think they should have jailed him for the term of the suspected offence.
He can easily clear his name.... if he's innocent.

Question:

If he gets done for witholding the p/w and they later break the code & find nasty stuff, can he then be done for the pron too or is it too close to being the same offence?

he may just be standing up for his rights tho! ... i mean, how would You like anyone going through all your personal stuff on yer pooter??? i know i would'nt and im purer than the driven snow! Lol

but lets just hang him anyways Eh 😀

I'm Brown as well

but lets just hang him anyways

From a lamppost???

I'm sharpening my pitch fork already. 😆

*puts pitch fork back in cupboard*

Maybe he's Mark Datz and really doesn't want [i]anyone[/i] to know his true identity?

assuming they dont crack it hes got away lightly
16 weeks is considerably less than i imagine hed get for kiddie porn and entry onto the sex offenders list too

he should have used the pete townsend defense and claimed he was writing a book

[i]i'm brown as well[/i]

I didn't think all brown people were Islamic and I didn't think all Islamists were terrorists.

Have I been misled by the leftist liberals then?

Being brown (or white) doesn't stop (or make) you being a terrorist does it?

RACIST!

RACIST!

Yes it's true. 😳

Quite apart from the privacy issue (which is more than enough IMO) I would take the jail time because I don't trust the police's computer skills.

Can they tell the difference between me downloading kiddie porn and a virus hijacking my computer and using it as a server for kiddie porn?

http://www.cbc.ca/technology/story/2009/11/09/tech-internet-virus-child-porn.html

It's not the same as not allowing police access to your house and finding physical evidence.

I find this somewhat unsettling. On a more tangible example, would he be still be jailed for not telling the fuzz where his safe key is? Same situation really as could have pictures etc in a safe.

.

A computer, like a diary, can contain very personal things, which others have no right to see regardless of any criminal investigation. It's part of a person's Human Rights.

Rubbish. Don't write about things you obviously know nothing about.
Searching a house recently under the authorisation of a court search warrant meant the only things I couldn't read were letters to and from the householder's solicitors, as it could be private discussions between a defendant and his legal advisor.
If the householder had tried to prevent us from searching anything else in the house that was under the jurisdiction of the warrant then then could (and have been in the past) be charged with obstruction. And that's the same if I'm investigating something using the powers that I have with my personal warrant, as long as I am complying with the law as described by the Act under which my warrant is authorised.

It's not the same as not allowing police access to your house and finding physical evidence.

Aaaaaah so all criminals have to do is keep eveything on A computer as what's on it isn't "physical" evidence!!! Of course it is you fool.

Take it you got bullied a lot at school and that's why you joined the police, then. You've obviously feel the need to insult people but don't have the whit or physical presence to actually defend yourself without the authority granted to you by your job. Why don't you take some counselling or something. You never know, maybe it'll make you happier in the long run.

Anyway, how do you distinguish between data that someone intentionally downloaded and data that was downloaded by a virus? By the way, I didn't realise you could have digital versions of guns and drugs these days. Cool!

This is why the Regulation of Investigatory Powers act is such a farce. If the police showed up at *your* house, said you had encrypted materials and required you to decrypt it - but you don't know what it is or have a password to give them, you can go to jail just like this chap. Given that you wouldn't necessarily need software installed or a file called "secret stuff" there (you can encrypt and hide data in lots of different types of file or even hidden partitions on the HD, how on earth could you prove your innocence? Complete reversal of the usual "innocent until proven guilty" burden of proof.

In his case, assuming he's protecting dodgier stuff that would warrant a longer sentence, this is a nice way of bypassing all that. Bonkers.

He was witholding evidence? Something to hide huh? Deserves all he gets (and a beating in jail I hope).

Take it you got bullied a lot at school and that's why you joined the police, then. You've obviously feel the need to insult people but don't have the whit or physical presence to actually defend yourself without the authority granted to you by your job. Why don't you take some counselling or something. You never know, maybe it'll make you happier in the long run.

And I'm not even a policeman!

No, he's a lot, LOT worse than that! 😉

If the householder had tried to prevent us from searching anything else in the house that was under the jurisdiction of the warrant then then could (and have been in the past) be charged with obstruction. And that's the same if I'm investigating something using the powers that I have with my personal warrant, as long as I am complying with the law as described by the Act under which my warrant is authorised.

The maximum penalty for obstruction is 1 month imprisonment and the Magistrates' guidelines suggest a fine.