I am racist because I abhor the racist behaviour of the American military?
No, the argument is that you are racist because you're using a story about a few individuals' behaviour to draw conclusions about an entire nation of 300m+ people.
is a decent rebuttal to some of the glowing one eyed praise Geetee has been posting.
It is a good rebuttal. It shows that the country isn't perfect. Far from it.
I don't think that makes me 'one eyed' though.
Yes. Like all peoples as individuals they are fine. However as a group their behaviour is repugnant to any civilised person. You cannot defend this sort of behaviour and it is not a one of abberation.
Its a product of their racist attitudes
I'll repeat the question, TJ. Have you met any of 'their military'? Or are you basing your entire knowledge upon the media and their reporting?
TandemJeremy - MemberYes. Like all peoples as individuals they are fine. However as a group their behaviour is repugnant to any civilised person. You cannot defend this sort of behaviour and it is not a one of abberation.
Its a product of their racist attitudes
geetee1972No, the argument is that you are racist because you're using a story about a few individuals' behaviour to draw conclusions about an entire nation of 300m+ people.
where have I drawn conclusions about the entire nation? Point it out. If you are going to accuse me of something then back it up
I'll repeat the question, TJ. Have you met any of 'their military'? Or are you basing your entire knowledge upon the media and their reporting?
That's a silly argument. I have never met a member of the Khmer Rouge, the Waffen SS, or the Israel Defense Force, but I have a right to an opinion based on their behaviour.
Although I do agree that TJ is completely going over the top in his attacks on American society. Urinating onto corpses is just an motive issue which should not be used to wholesale condemn a people imo.
The issue is often not individual poor behaviour - you'll get that all over - it's the frequency of such incidents and the system that allows them to think it's something they'll get away with
When they don't, you hear about it
I've met hundreds of US GIs and air force personnel, the GIs are about as arrogant and opinionated and selfish as anyone I've ever met
The air force guys seemed OK
Ernie - where have I done this?
wholesale condemn a people.
all I have done is given a counterpoint to geetees one eyed view
Ernie - where have I done this?
Well I think your link to the article concerning the yanks urinating on corpses was an attempt to do that.
Right, I'm outta here.
Are the US military guilty of abuse - hell yes.
Are they alone - hell no.
Do they get the most publicity - hell yes.
It is a minority of the US military that behave badly, and they get the most publicity. The huge scrutiny they are under with imbeded journmalists etc ensures it all comes out.
The attrocities by other countries are far far worse.
Do they get the most publicity - hell yes.
Spoken like a true yank, even if you're not.
Its complete nonsense.
Every headline on every news broadcast over the last two weeks has been anti-Syrian publicity, to prepare us for the coming US invasion.
All the talk of numbers dead from violence, but no mention that more people suffered violent deaths in Iraq last month, in a War started nine years ago and still not resolved.
American publicised abuse - tip of an iceberg.
I have never met a member of the Khmer Rouge, the Waffen SS, or the Israel Defense Force, but I have a right to an opinion based on their behaviour.
You do, but you have the advantage of most of their behaviour being in the past and the analysis of historians, rather than just the media and their desire to sell newspapers.
the GIs are about as arrogant and opinionated and selfish as anyone I've ever met
Not my experiences on the whole, but there you go.
TJ - I take it from your lack of answer you've not met any. If I were to judge 'all Englishmen living in Scotland' from what I read on the internet, what conclusions could I leap to?
Tootall - I have answered you twice
TandemJeremy - MemberYes. ( I have met them) Like all peoples as individuals they are fine. However as a group their behaviour is repugnant to any civilised person. You cannot defend this sort of behaviour and it is not a one of abberation.
Its a product of their racist attitudes
TJ I wish you would stop with your hateful run down of another nation when the great land that you live within is no better.
Malnutrition, MRSA, poisoning of saline solution - all rife in the NHS
Soldiers torturing and desicrating Iraqis and Afghans - all rife within the UK armed forces.
Racism and Police brutality to protesters - rife within the UK police force
People in glass houses....
OK - thought you were refering to the American nation as a whole. Would you care to expand upon why they were so repugnant and what the occasion was? It has marked you in such a way it must have been a big thing.
Who is defending the behaviour? Not me.
This whole thread was based around a very one eyed view promoting how great teh US is.
I thought a counterpoint to it was need.
There are a number of people on here who will defend the US come what may.
I thought a counterpoint to it was need
No you didn't, you just took it as an opportunity to be spiteful about a nation you clearly hate and feel the need to critisise. It's sad.
Really - you know my motivations better than I do? how odd.
LHS, you're the on sounding spiteful and personal here.
It's fine to point out that the UK does have a lot of comparable problems, but the thread is "I've always liked America and this is why...." so it is strange to use your points to try to stifle debate about America.
"Let the nation that is without sin cast the first stone"
There is virtually no perfect nation on Earth, they all have faults in various respects. In the grand scheme, the USA is generally one of the better nations IMHO. A lot of the modern infrastructure, innovation and invention has come from over the pond. We have not done too badly ourselves.
However as a report card would say - "could do better"
And no, there will be no invation of Syria. It is not anti - Syrian publicity - it is anti Syrian Regieme, bit of a difference there.
It isn't a debate - it is TJ demonstrating his dislike, not a counterpoint. All militaries have breakdowns of discipline on occasion. To use such a thing in a 'debate' on the pros and cons of a country is about as daft as tryng to present it as a debate.
There are a number of people on here who will [s]defend[/s] [b]attack[/b] the US come what may.
One is no better than the other.
to try to stifle debate about America.
Its not debate, its hate.
At a time when the US administration has only warm words for those brave enough to demand respect for their civil rights in the Middle East, it is sobering to be reminded of the US's own flagrant, continued abuse of human rights by detaining people without trial in Guantanamo – years after Barack Obama pledged to close the prison down.
TandemJeremy - Member
Ernie - where have I done this?wholesale condemn a people.
all I have done is given a counterpoint to geetees one eyed view
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TJ - I am OK with all of the counter points and the alternative arguments. Sometimes your view points do make me think and make me review my opinion.
But do you think you could just have a bit more respect for my arguments rather than belittling them with comments like 'one eyed'?
I am a highly educated, highly intelligent individual and while I don't claim to have a monopoly on what is absolute (as if there is such a thing) I think a little more respect is becoming.
One other thing regarding your comments on the military. If you'd spent time on a front line I don't think you would have a different opinion to the one you have now, but I am almost sure you would express it differently.
TandemJeremy - Member
where have I drawn conclusions about the entire nation? Point it out. If you are going to accuse me of something then back it up
Erm, here, unless I am missing something?
TandemJeremy - Member
Yes. Like all peoples as individuals they are fine. [u]However as a group their behaviour is repugnant to any civilised person.[/u] You cannot defend this sort of behaviour and it is not a one of abberation.[u]Its a product of their racist attitudes[/u]
POSTED 57 MINUTES AGO # REPORT-POST
Oh and
TandemJeremy - Member
I am racist because I abhor the racist behaviour of the American military?
Great distraction!
Yes al - you are missing something. the group referred to is the American military not the American peoples as is clear from the context.
still - any excuse for the personal attack eh?
TJ - I am OK with all of the counter points and the alternative arguments. Sometimes your view points do make me think and make me review my opinion.But do you think you could just have a bit more respect for my arguments rather than belittling them with comments like 'one eyed'?
I am a highly educated, highly intelligent individual and while I don't claim to have a monopoly on what is absolute (as if there is such a thing) I think a little more respect is becoming.
Nicely put and I accept that and offer apologies. sorry if I overstepped the bounds of reasonable debate
Thanks TJ - that was big of you.
Not personal, just "calling you on BS" - that's quoting your comment to me IIRC?
In any event I don't see a great difference between drawing conclusions about an army as opposed to a nation.
Geeteee - Hard to argue with something put as reasonably you swine 😉
😀
All debates should be this reasonable
TJ IS A *** ** ********* ** *
So there.
Is this a game of hangman? 🙂
Is there an "a" in it?
Thanks TJ - that was big of you
He never says that to me! 🙂
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