[Closed] I've always liked America and this is why....

University of California's San Diego campus,

My uncle was Professor of Physics there in the 60s and 70s!

Americans are great. I like them and their country. There is something of a battle going on between the vocal and religious middle america and the more cosmopolitan and liberal costal cities. I think that, in the long run, the liberals will win out. Religious fundementalism of any type is bad for business and Americans love business. The looney from Alaska had a new one torn for her and is widely regarded as a joke by all the Americans I know. So although vocal as the fundies are, when it comes to the courts and so on the US seems to stand by the constitution.

I don't want to come across as "pro American", I'm not, I think some their far right politicans are amongst the most despicable people on the planet. BUT you can't just criticise a nation - if you do IMHO it comes across as racist.

I love the states, think its an amazing place and would love to live there - pity its so hard to get in.

I can't stand UK, I want out of this hole as soon as possible....

I think some their far right politicans are amongst the most despicable people on the planet

Compared to ours who are all good chaps?

It is a different place, but not that different. It is much bigger and is more insular - because it can be. The only reason a lot of Brits have been to other countries is to get cheap booze and sunshine - if they could be obtained in Blackpool they would still go there. We have plenty of loonies and nasty people - they just have a big enough country for them to get together in bigger numbers and be more vocal.

I can't stand UK, I want out of this hole as soon as possible....

don't let the door hit you on your arse on the way out

Compared to ours who are all good chaps?

@ Too Tall, no certainly not, I didn't want to insinuate that. We have some very dodgy people here as well but I believe over there they have more influence, definatley more power and often use religion to justify their views. Not saying I'm right, just the impression I get which gives me my point of view.

most despicable people on the planet

Bit strong.... but I see where you are coming from.

However just remeber that we, and the rest of the "free word" owe them a huge debt. they were dragged from their isolationist policy by the Japanese, and won the war. Without theit technology and power the Cold War would have had a far different outcome.

Far from perfect, but hey, there is not a country that is.

don't let the door hit you on your arse on the way out

How witty...How thought provoking....my, you really are quite the comic.

and often use religion to justify their views

Didn't Tony go to Iraq because God told him to?

I love the states, think its an amazing place and would love to live there - pity its so hard to get in.

I can't stand UK, I want out of this hole as soon as possible....

Bye.... try swimming over, wont take long.

most despicable people on the planet

Bit strong.... but I see where you are coming from.

So you think the far right aren't despicable, or you like misquoting people?

BUT you can't just criticise a nation - if you do IMHO it comes across as racist.

OK.
But its not racist to disagree with US military foreign policy and associated attitudes to foreigners, which appear to show racist tendencies themself.

[img] [/img]

An SAS soldier has refused to fight in Iraq and has left the Army over the "illegal" tactics of United States troops and the policies of coalition forces.
After three months in Baghdad, Ben Griffin told his commander that he was no longer prepared to fight alongside American forces.
He said he had witnessed "dozens of illegal acts" by US troops, claiming they viewed all Iraqis as "untermenschen" - the Nazi term for races regarded as sub-human.

loum again you don't want to go slinging mud, the UK has its own fair share of war atrocities to be shameful about.

flange - Member

most despicable people on the planet

Bit strong.... but I see where you are coming from.

So you think the far right aren't despicable, or you like misquoting people?

I have neither misquoted someone, nor said that the far right are not dispicable. But to suggest that they are the most dispicable people on the planet is maybe taking it slightly too far IMHO, or am I not allowed an opinion?

loum - selective news articles about select individuals in the military to prove your selective point is a bit, erm, narrow.

I know far more US military personnel who would be / are horrified by such events than those who would go along with them. Every nation has minorities who do the wrong thing when serving their countries.

I have neither misquoted someone, nor said that the far right are not dispicable. But to suggest that they are the most dispicable people on the planet is maybe taking it slightly too far IMHO, or am I not allowed an opinion?

I think he said far right politicians are the most despicable people on the planet. They're politicians for a start....

@loum, true, I personally disagree with US (and often UK) military foreign policy and I'm sure there are plenty of bad eggs in the US forces (same as any army or to be fair any large group of people)
I think my point was some people generalise about the US yet if others were to do so about say French/Chinese/Indians/Jamaicans it would be construed as racist by the very people who make the generalisations. (Sorry if that isn't clear but end of lunch now, best I go do some work) Might be back later if I get chance as I find this thread quite interesting

flange - Member

I have neither misquoted someone, nor said that the far right are not dispicable. But to suggest that they are the most dispicable people on the planet is maybe taking it slightly too far IMHO, or am I not allowed an opinion?

I think he said far right politicians are the most despicable people on the planet. They're politicians for a start....

I think people can see where I got quote from 😀 Hardly from an obscure publication, it was 2 posts up.

Politicians they are, but still IMHO not the most despicable people on the planet, though they are certainly well down the road. 🙂

Those that support them and give them power as just as bad.

There are plenty of other lowlifes out there that are worse.

The looney from Alaska had a new one torn for her and is widely regarded as a joke by all the Americans I know.

Sure, but I'd imagine that's because the Americans you know are the more liberal ones, who've travelled a bit and have seen different cultures.

I've worked with Americans who are hugely insular (in a way I've never seen in the UK or Europe), and fulfill just about every stereotype you could imagine.

But it's not just the ill-educated; there are any number of very polite middle-class Americans that I've worked with who, (like their Daily Mail-reading counterparts in the UK), keep their xenophobia and bigotry well-hidden. Once you get to know them a little better you learn the codes - if anyone starts to talk about 'states' rights', Obama being a 'food stamp president' or ever mentions the 'mainstream media', you know very well that although they're not necessarily a KKK member, there's definitely a Tea Party nutjob hidden just under the surface.

This is not to say that Britain's any better in terms of beliefs. But what we achieve with a little more success is keeping religion out of politics, and keeping the State out of our personal lives. Most of us (rightly) don't give a stuff about who marries who, or the gender of who you choose to share a bed with. The number of people who call themselves religious is lower as a proportion. We're a little less in thrall to the flag, and a LOT more cynical about our leaders (all of them, even the party we might vote for).

In short, I love America, and a very large number of the Americans I've met. I just wish there were slightly fewer people with obsessive views, and a slightly more liberal mainstream media.

They are probably very nice people but when you encounter them in large groups they instantly rub you up the wrong way. Bit like northerners really!
Love Australians though.

Those that support them and give them power as just as bad.

There are plenty of other lowlifes out there that are worse.

Here comes the tangent...

On a grand scale? I'm thinking along the lines of Bush and his entourage. Dope dealing sex trade trafficking pimps are probably pretty high on the 'nasty persons' list but do they have the far reaching effects of politicians/people of power? Along the lines of war, genocide, greed and so on. There are plenty of examples where politicians have used their powers for their own benefits

As for those voting them in, how many times have they promised something and not delivered? Or done a complete about turn on a policy or issue? How many voters are misled/influenced by the gutter press (Daily Wail) and base their vote on a supposedly informed decision?

I like the thought of the States, the insularity of it. The fact that whilst some idiot is making decisions I don't want, the States (or any large country) is so vast I can almost hide away from it. It feels like we're so crammed in here that its impossible to escape. Probably a massively simplistic POV, but we're all entitled to opinions

They are probably very nice people but when you encounter them in large groups they instantly rub you up the wrong way.

I've spent 5 months cycling in the USA meeting almost nothing but Americans and never got rubbed the wrong way.

Apart from a few dodgy drivers I found Americans to be almost universally friendly and generous. I've had no issues entering or leaving the country and the few contacts I has with cops there were fine.

Just one time at a bar beside the Missouri I was in a conversation with a female who talked about the the end of the world coming, separation of the races etc (despite a coloured guy being at the table). I really couldn't have imagined having that conversation in the UK.

In Glasgow racism isn't a problem. Religious bigotry is though. I explained to an American how in Glasgow there are two main soccer teams one of which flies the Union Jack and the other the Irish tricolour. He found the whole thing hard to believe and summed it up by saying "you mean to tell me both your teams fly the flag of a foreign power?".

They are probably very nice people but when you encounter them in large groups they instantly rub you up the wrong way.

English abroad?

@LHS, You're right that we have our own problems (past and present), but I'm not mud slinging just staying on topic (the USA) and responding to a post above. This does not mean I am proud of our own foreign military actions, but that is a different thread.

@Tootall, It's probably true that it is a minority, as you point out, but that should not stop us from discussing it. Yes I did "select" those articles to demonstrate a relevant point, in response to a post above. I came across those after reading a different article two days ago, but at 16000 words I chose not to refference it because I "selected" these to be shorter and more suitable as a summary for a forum. It's here if you want to read it: http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2012/feb/07/iraq-death-secret-detention-camp
Its a long read but, to me, shows that at least some of the attrocities being committed are institutional rather than by individual "bad eggs". I believe the fact that most of the evidence released of attrocities/illegal actions/war crimes concern groups rather than single lone opperators, and find it hard to believe that there is not more that is going unreported. The institutional nature of these attrocities is further demonstrated by the Punishment terms for the "whistle-blowers" being more severe than for those proved to have murdered civillians. Who are the US military treating as the bad eggs?

@Nacho, you are right:- criticising an entire nation is racist. I am not against the American people, i have a lot of respect for them and their values. However there is a massive difference in freedom between the people in "The Land Of The Free" and the peoples of US occupied countries. I disagree with their foreign military policy and how it is implemented, and also believe that more Americans would too if they knew the truth. The freedom of speech there does not appear to extend as far as critising the military.

@ flange, yes the Bush, right wing neo-cons are abhorent, full of self interest. However I do not think that they deliberately set out to destroy people or ethnically cleanse countries. Quite often there can be terrible consequences of their action. (Lets not get into the wrongs or rights of Iraq war)

Those that deliberately inflict suffering on the masses, be it mass rapings, ethnic cleansings, gunning down innocent protesters, blowing up aircraft. These to me are lower.

The fact that whilst some idiot is making decisions I don't want, the States (or any large country) is so vast I can almost hide away from it

Not really - people are making decisions that DO affect you but are thousands of miles away in a different world.

One of my favourite little corners of Americana (from Texas!):

http://atheist-experience.com/

I love Sky Atlantic

LHS, if America is so great and the UK is so awful why are you here (are you over here?). Every thread related to America you pop up and dismiss any criticism of the US and counter it with how the UK is just as bad or worse.

In your mind, is there anything wrong with America at all?

I remember a drama-doc about the American reporter who first exposed the corrupt "allowances" practices in the House of Commons.

At a moment of extreme frustration at yet again being baulked by a smirking jobsworth at the Mother of Parliaments whilst trying to access information, she started to weep. Her husband asked her what was wrong. She said "How can you stand it?" He asked, what? She said:

"Being British."

Jeepers 'American' is not a race. You can be called xenophobic but not racist.

Personally, I just can't stand the way they speak.

Lol.. but American jobsworth bureaucracy is far worse than ours, fair dos.

Jeepers 'American' is not a race.

I'm guessing you mean that 'race' implies homogeneity?

You cannot judge a whole population by it's government.

and before someone says they voted for them.. You can only vote for who is put before you.

so then what were we to think of South Africa and the apartheid government?
We should not think the white electors were largely racist then?

Less than half of them voted for any given president. But they don't even make the rules and foreign policy and whatnot. Entrenched opinions are what run the show really.

@ratswithwings, you're right American is not "a race", but that doesn't matter:

The UN does not define "racism", however it does define "racial discrimination": According to the United Nations Convention on the Elimination of All Forms of Racial Discrimination,
the term "racial discrimination" shall mean any distinction, exclusion, restriction, or preference based on race, colour, descent, or [u]national[/u] or ethnic origin ...

it is obvious any country would be considered a race or else saying all ****stanis are something derogatory...... would not be racist

the race relations act here also specifies nationality

Anti-Americanism seems an acceptable racism to certain people, strangely though, that racism usually comes from the very same people who throw the accusation so freely at others when it suits.

Depends what you mean by anti americanism. You can oppose what they stand for , represent or do without actually being racist.

i am not keen on what the state Israel does.
I assume i can criticise what Israel does without being accused of racism? well you would think but not even on STW can you do this.

They have the right to free speech and to bear arms. Best guarantee against evil government.

Great speech. I liked that.

Americans? It's a big country, really ****ing big. I've been a few times. I'd say attitudes within the country are different in the same way that attitudes in different parts of Europe are different.

On the whole I've found Americans to be extremely friendly and fairly open minded.

Oh, and if you never want to have to buy yourself a drink, wear military fatigues.

so what

I actually found the uncritical reverence for anyone in the military a bit wearing after a while. They think everyone in the military's a hero, which considering how bloated their military is, probably includes a fair few paper shufflers like myself. The first few people shaking your hand and thankIng you are a pleasant change from the UK, where people tend to assume you're a parking attendant or paintballer or something. Then it gets tedious, as you have to listen to another set of tales from some old fart, and be treated at length to his bizarre world views, which he naturally assumes you share.

The US is like any other country, it has good and bad points and people.