[Closed] It's time to reclaim the word "problem" (half-baked rant)

I blame "the Saturdays" they have issues apparently.

I take issue with that.

What's your problem?

issuette - thats the new one doing the rounds here.

There are only so many people you can slag off for this before it turns violent.

I've got several issues....
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....of Razzle.

I would question that problem is always negative. It can also be a synonym for question, meaning a challenge

Saying you have "an issue with something" isn't any better than saying you "don't like it"

not the same, having an issue with something is less judgemental, the issue might be with the formulation or expression etc. far short of antipathy

I have no problem with that.

A problem is a worry, a bad thing, a balls-up that needs to be corrected. It's a negative word.

Or it could be a mathematical problem or a puzzle.

An issue is a topic, a question, a subject that needs to be discussed. It's a neutral word

Or it could be something material, that is put forward.

The point being that lots of words have lots of meanings. "Issues" is one of them.

Ploppy pants rant, must try harder. 0/10

Got an issue?........ Take a tissue.

Problem just doesn't rhyme.

davidrussel - reading your post introduced me to the feeling of going from completely placid to unspeakably enraged in a split second.

Issuette.

Wow.

Hora has issues regarding his desire to touch mens bottoms

Good rant though. 8 out of ten. Would be higher, but there's not enough swearing. And too few exclamation marks

Can we reclaim "solution" instead?

Can we also reclaim the phrase "run it up the flagpole and see who salutes it". Saluting flags is one of my favourite pastimes, but when I suggest it to friends they think I've become a middle manager who wants to go on the Apprentice 🙁

While we're ranting,can we please erradicate the Ausralianism of ending a sentence on a higher note? It drives me crazy ape bonkers.Two of my riding pals do it..and they're Teachers! What kind of example ? etc,etc..
Off to Hanchurch now,for a very wet Demo night.

You are welcome to come to our next client meeting to meet the senior marketing manager who advised us that they the do not have "problems" they have "unresolved opportunities" - if anyone has any bright ideas how to solve an opportunity" I would be fascinated!!!

[i]Kevin drinking vodka and passing out in the park is a problem.[/i]

Eh?
A problem for who?
Certainly not to me!
I don't even know Kevin.

Konabunny...reckon you need to sort out your issues!!! 😉

I don't see a "problem" as something bad/negative...just something that occurs that needs to be addressed.

Eg....I want to make some scones tonight but the probem is I have run out of flour. Is this worrying/bad/negative? No, I just need to go to the shop to buy some more!!

8)

Right, a problem is something that needs to be fixed! It doesn't mean anyone is going to die necessarily but not having eggs when you need eggs is more on the bad side than the good.

having an issue with something is less judgemental

Ploppy pants rant, must try harder. 0/10

But 90% of the time when people say "issue" they are in fact being judgmental

is that so ? I think expressing something as an issue implies a willingness to tackle, negotiate and resolve rather than outright rejection or stonewalling

If there was a problem yo I'll solve it, check out the hook while my DJ revolves it....

Vee to the a to the nilla, fool.

Or when they say its an issue they want it discussed....and its easier and less objective than saying I have a problem. Unfortunately sometimes, we are in a world where talking about stuff is encouraged over solving a problem with pure old fashioned violence.

To me, an 'issue' is when you dont like to admit you have or there is a problem, or that the topic in question is not bad eough that you actually would do something positive to correct it. Alternatively, it could be a difficult problem that isnt solved easily.

Maybe you need to get your 'issues' sorted out as that was a proper half-baked rant! 😉

... besides, talking about "reclaiming" a word is futile. How could you, or anyone else achieve such a thing ? Usage is mostly spur-of-the-moment - people don't generally spend a lot of time thinking about how they use language, they just [b]do[/b] it when the moment arises, and just grab what seem like the most appropriate words and phrases from their accumulated vocabulary. It's very democratic, and 3rd parties hardly get a look in!

Try working for a US company. Issue is old hat. Nothing is an issue any more. We have "challenges" or "headwind" now.

eg Sales have been below target. We have several challenges that need to be worked on before we can get back on target

or

We would have hit our targets but headwind from other challenges in the company meant that we didn't...

As an Engineer, my life is one of solving problems and I'm very happy about that. But to my customers, constant discussion of my "problems" is too negative and they get overly concerned. So in an effort to communicate effectively, I'm forced to use more reassuring language. Hence a lot of my "problems" get translated into "issues".

This topic, is itself, a slightly annoying issue. It's not an problem and not worth a rant IMO 😉

"people don't generally spend a lot of time thinking about how they use language"

On a good day, thinking people choose language to clarify, manipulate or even obfuscate. But I suspect that most of the time, most people just mimic what they hear.

I want to know more about the Kevin 'thing' - what's up with that?

And while we're at it...

Since when was did people become incapable of structuring sentences without starting 'With respect to...' or 'With regard to...'

'With regard to the weekend, what are you doing?' NO! Its 'What are you doing on the weekend?' ffs.

and don't get me started on turning every word that ends with 'ly' into something ending in basis. Frequent basis, regular basis, daily basis... Nu Labour have a lot to answer for.

[i]On a good day, thinking people choose language to clarify, manipulate or even obfuscate. But I suspect that most of the time, most people just mimic what they hear. [/i]

Very well put!

I hate how these days people can't just say what they think without prefacing it with why they think it. [i]And for that reason[/i], I think we should shoot all the dragons from Dragons' Den.

On a good day, thinking people choose language to clarify, manipulate or even obfuscate

I was thinking more about speech where you only have a short time to choose your words

PS Non thinking people are more commonly referred to as 'dead' or 'asleep'...

"its easier and less objective than saying I have a problem.

And, of course, a shortage of smacks in the mouth.

(I don't really care about this issue as much as I am making out).

buzz-lightyear - Member

most people just mimic what they hear.

Hence the culture that has developed whereby the use of business bullshit is almost mandatory to imply comprehension.

"At this moment in time" - what?!? Don't you just mean "now"?!?

"Do you know what I mean" at the end of every sentence - this suggests the speaker isn't that confident that they actually know what they mean so the listener hasn't got a hope in hell of understanding.

And my personal favourite going round the office at the moment

"On the back of this..." - Consequently.

It's like one person hears some BS, then the rest of the office sheep try as much as they can to incorporate these choice phrases into their vocabulary. Great fun, office politics...

[i]business bullshit is almost mandatory to imply comprehension.[/i]

The use of which ironically, normally indicates a lack of comprehension. I instantly assume that anyone using corporate bollocks is an idiot and can safely be ignored until coffees are required. That seems to work most of the time. It's also a fairly safe bet that anyone using such phrases is not someone to whom action can be attributed.

I'm wondering, since the use of language is inherently quite a sophisticated activity, perhaps meaningless phrases serve an orthogonal purpose, like giving the user time to think, or being merely decorative afterthoughts to enliven the conversational arena ? In the same way the colour or shape of a car has little relevance to its function, yet draws considerable attention. Or it may be that peppering your language with catchphrases is fun ? Know wot I mean eh ?

"At this moment in time" - what?!? Don't you just mean "now"?!?

but the former has more poetry to it :o)

I think I'm having to agree with SFB here (which is becoming a scarily frequent thing).

"I have an issue with that" may not be the best use of the word, and problem may fit the sentence better, but problem suggests negativity and unwillingness to compromise. Issue suggests something that isn't necessarily a huge problem but will require discussion to overcome.

I think I'm having to agree with SFB here (which is becoming a scarily frequent thing)

it's an interesting reflection on people's concept of argument that they should even consider who is proposing an idea. To my mind, an argument stands or falls on its self consistency and relevance, not the personality of its author. Of course, any argument can have an interpersonal component, but that's usually only a diverting back channel, and largely irrelevant.

"Houston - we have an issue"

Nah, doesn't work

[i]Of course, any argument can have an interpersonal component, but that's usually only a diverting back channel, and largely irrelevant. [/i]

But if people have a large background of experience to reference, then their minds will tell them that immediately disagreeing or at least ignoring that argument could save them a lot of time and effort. In fact, when presented with a number of options I'm sure a great many people will make their final choice often based on who agrees or disagrees with them. That's a natural path to follow as it ensures acceptance in their adopted network.

To my mind, an argument stands or falls on its self consistency and relevance, not the personality of its author.

I never said "I am agreeing because SFB wrote it", you're not that important 😀 ; I said I agree with your argument and then noted that it is becoming more frequent that I agree with your points. It's an interesting reflection of peoples thinking that they should assume the person adopting the same stance as them was doing so because of the author, rather than the content 😉

"daily basis"

[i]Per-diem[/i], surely?

"Non thinking people are more commonly referred to as 'dead' or 'asleep"

😆

There's a lot of zombies!

'Per-diem, surely?'

more like:

'Per-diem, on a sure basis?'

Dawn of the dead here 🙂

I've been told there are no problems just challenges!

Unfortunately the kind of people you hear this from are those who see a challenge as problem.

I never said "I am agreeing because SFB wrote it", you're not that important

and I never said I thought you did

I said I agree with your argument and then noted that it is becoming more frequent that I agree with your points.

In the same circumstance I probably wouldn't have noticed as I concentrate on the content and often don't look to see who said it.

It's an interesting reflection of peoples thinking that they should assume the person adopting the same stance as them was doing so because of the author, rather than the content

and not an assumption I would ever make!

I do find it amusing when people reluctantly admit to agreeing with me as if I were inevitably normally wrong 🙂

isn't it all about the evolution of languages?

"isn't it all about the evolution of languages?"

Not in this case IMO. There is this tension between the cultural evolution of common speech and the need for stability/formality of meaning within technical professions.

Business language seems to warrant formality, but actually it's devoid of technical content and is marketing-led. So it's deliberate manipulation of words rather than part of evolution.

My personal situation is an example: Engineers, being technical people, are happy talking about spiky "problems" and "bugs" etc. But to talk to managers, these must be translated into neutral "issues", else they get confused and over-react.

It's not enough that people don't have the bottle to say "problem" when they mean it, but they can't even have an issue *with* something. Oooo no. That would be too confrontational so it's issues "around" something. MTFU junior management.

yes, that's true. normally, it's not even "I take issue with that" or "I have an issue with that" but "there's an issue around x", as if it were an agreed objective fact.

"Business language seems to warrant formality, but actually it's devoid of technical content and is marketing-led. "

This isn't right - in fact, I have a problem with it. 😛 When I worked in "business" (consultancy of a specific type, not a real job like engineering, obviously) we did have actual stuff to do that wasn't marketing. (In other words, we made the product and sold it, we weren't just selling the electronic gold that a bunch of underappreciated geniuses in black t-shirts created). And I and most of my colleagues were happy to talk about problems, glitches, ****ups and other things that aren't issues.

As a techy-tw*t our IT systems don't have problems they have features. 🙂

Issuette <grrrrr> 👿

Can I also introduce the word loose as the past tense of lost - you don't loose something! You lose it or have lost it. The past tense of lost is lose.
E****ing US English based spellcheckers is what I blame for the proliferation of the use of loose, for the past tense of lost, amongst those whose jeans are so loose their (under)pants are showing.

SFB - you said (talking about my post I think?!):

To my mind, an argument stands or falls on its self consistency and relevance, not the personality of its author.

Suggesting I agreed based on the the personality of the author (you). I didn't. I simply read the thread properly and noted who said what, then realised my opinion was in line with yours, which is a rarity. And therefore mentioned that 😀