inkster - no, it's a difficult life for all these things to happen. It takes time and energy. People want, easy lives, comfort, accessibility, lots of choice, gadgets.
It's so much easier to wash a mtbike with a hose, than use a bucket and water from a water butt.
Let's all stop making excuses.
Many folk are returning to the good life, giving up high powered, high paid jobs and having a simpler life. This takes courage and commitment.
We all have to do something and it's going to be painful, we have to think differently. Hard for families with young children, but if we don't do something there are consequences.
I disagree with that. You can drive all over to trail centres and buy a new bike every year, but you don’t have to. You can ride an old steel bike locally, and that’s pretty low impact.
Yes we all could do that..... But we don't - MTB is a large industry worth billions of pounds (world wide) that relies on new stuff being sold, places to ride, holidays to go on etc. Quite often it hides behind the 'its just a bike' eco credentials. Pretty sure STW along with every other mag has done a 'how eco is mtb?' article over the years.
You drive an AMG Merc, I’m not sure any amount of cotton cloths is going to offset that
This argument mustn't descend into point scoring, because that's one of the biggest reasons no-one does anything - people are too concerned about whose better than whom rather than what needs to be done. But, it's not an AMG, it's AMG Sport - 2.2l diesel.
Yes we all could do that….. But we don’t
I think many of us do.
But I don't think it's as simple as you think. If jet-setting MTBers weren't going to Morzine or wherever, would they be sitting at home? No, they'd be going somewhere else and doing something else. MTBing is just a sport to do when they're there.
"inkster – no, it’s a difficult life for all these things to happen. It takes time and energy. People want, easy lives, comfort, accessibility, lots of choice, gadgets."
Basically the narrative espoused in 'The Good Life'.
I was half joking but a contemporary remake of 'The Good Life' wouldn't necessarily be a bad idea. Still, carry on watching Mock the Week if you like.
I blame the 100, if we had test cricket right now it would be chucking it down!
Huh, the hill I live on, is on fire
*well, now smouldering after a fire
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Shamelessly stolen from Faceache, im about 30m from the fire in the photo
piemonster - scarey for you.
inkster - I'm the old granny of the forum. Like others I was born at the end of the 'Boomer era (horrid expression). Sorry I don't know what 'mock of the week' :o) (I'm guessing its a telly programme)
To others complaining about boomers - We had 'blackouts' as a child, food was expensive and we didn't waste anything. Many people grew their own produce where possible. We got clothes out of a catalogue. My first flat had no central heating. So for 'we' boomers, it's not all been plain sailing.
I am skeptical that anything will be done to halt disaster as humans are programmed to reproduce, be comfortable and seek happiness which unfortunately seems to involve rampant consumerism for the majority of people.
The world has a finite amount of resources and population growth is unsustainable so there will inevitably be contention for resources in the future unless regardless of any measures put in place.
Humanity is too successful so some form of correction will happen. The "best" option would probably be a pandemic with 50% mortality rate which would trim the herd and solve most problems for a period. Other options such as a war for resources culminating in a unrestricted nuclear exchanges would be far worse.
Bunnyhop - I'm very much with you on this; also hacked off with posts on various threads making critical comments about 'boomers' - enjoyed all the benefits and then pulled up the drawbridge behind them leaving subsequent generations to struggle on as best they could.
Factually incorrect; it's a poisonous and surprisingly prevalent view.
I’m very much with you on this; also hacked off with posts on various threads making critical comments about ‘boomers’
Agreed. It's taking the art of divide and conquer to its logical conclusion - even make members of the same family hate each other.
I don't think small changes are going to cut it - recycling/reusing yes but its hardly going to make a dent.
It's also not always obvious what the "right" thing is - things suggested in this thread and elsewhere:
Get a milk man - plenty of lifecycle analysis shows that plastic bottles are lower impact, one of the highest recycling rates, energy required to transport the heavier glass bottles, energy needed to clean and sterilise glass bottles
Plastic wrapping on food - Greenpeace keep posting pictures wrapped broccoli when its clear that the food waste caused by not wrapping food is much worse (cucumbers, broccoli, not two pears in a plastic tray and a lid)
Reusable nappies? Depends
It’s taking the art of divide and conquer to its logical conclusion
It really isn't. It's a population based metric not a personal one. The UK average reading age is (shockingly) 9. You probably have a better reading age, right? The UK's average BMI is 27.6. Offended by that? feel like divide and conquer between the sizes?
Just because your experience of being in that generation or just the fact that you belong to that generation doesn't make it personally your fault. ok?
We could post up a list of really shitty Gen Xer's if you like?
Get a milk man – plenty of lifecycle analysis shows that plastic bottles are lower impact, one of the highest recycling rates, energy required to transport the heavier glass bottles, energy needed to clean and sterilise glass bottles
I have this discussion regularly with customers, just to add in another point, many customers who have a milk man already but say "if you sold your milk in glass bottles I'd happily buy it from you instead". our milk comes on a van, alongside fruit, veg and other perishables 6days a week, if one milk bottle breaks the driver would have to bin all the stock on board so it's not practical for shops to trade in milk bottles.
So milk is delivered to our village by to vans every day, one only sells prepackaged items (also fruit and veg, but in plastic btw), orange juice etc along with the milk. The other serves the shop and pub and supplies milk in plastic but recyclable bottles.
Plastic wrapping on food – Greenpeace keep posting pictures wrapped broccoli when its clear that the food waste caused by not wrapping food is much worse (cucumbers, broccoli, not two pears in a plastic tray and a lid)
Reusable nappies? Depend<span style="font-size: 0.8rem;">s</span>
This is spot on, there's a reason for most of the packaging on food, although some is purely for marketing. I was involved in a study for food storage and display for a large super market (I designed shops before owning one), the costs of keeping fruit and veg clean, fresh and appealing Vs wastage etc made plastic packaging essential for supermarkets to be profitable. Don't get me started on those misting displays some supermarkets have - 100% marketing bs.
It’s taking the art of divide and conquer to its logical conclusion
The blame can only be placed on artificially targeted at boomers with the power of hindsight...
Meanwhile, the younger generations all benefit from an improved quality of life made possible by the technology advances that our generous forebears came up with.
If you really want to blame someone, other than oil executives, bankers, politicians and most importantly media barons, who until the advent of the internet had almost complete control over the flow of information, then Michael Faraday is probably as good a target as any;
besides Electricity Generation being mankind's primary contribution to climate change, the discovery of electricity increased the potential for mass production, which in turn produced a means of constantly filling peoples homes with enticing adverts for more consumer products...
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I'm so early in the Generation X category I could almost be classed as a late boomer and can recognise some of the benefits that boomers had, like a free university education for one thing but like you I can also remember the power cuts and hardships of the 70's and being a boomer didny save many in the North from extreme hardship during the 80's either.
I remember in the mid 80's I worked for a friend's dad who had started a small light engineering business at the height of and in the spirit of Thatcherism. (Ironically, the three partners were all ex Leyland workers and were proud Labour voters).
Even back then my friend's dad bemoaned all the now Tory voters in his village who took for granted the free education, health and social services that they had inherited from post-war Labour policies and initiatives. (Selfish p***'s is what he used to refer to them as).
There's also the proportionality thing, the majority of boomers still around will be the more affluent who will mostly vote conservative, so any toxins that were once evenly distributed amongst a generation will have become more concentrated.
As the earliest generation to be saturated with TV and the power it has over the psyche, boomers have endured the most brainwashing...
Not just in terms of aspirational lifestyles and the allure of consumer products for social status, but also in terms of world view and political opinion
Brainwashing that continues to this day may I add, across a wider range of platforms that not too long ago would've been considered impossible
As always though, they still want to divide and conquer...
As the earliest generation to be saturated with TV and the power it has over the psyche, boomers have endured the most brainwashing…
Hmmmm. I'd argue that they benefited from an increase in information and opinion.
I think that in the 20s and 30s, people mixed far less, had access to less diverse media (and less in general), and were in their own echo chambers more than they are now. TV and mass media improved the spread of ideas for a while before it was hijacked.
Where do you think people in a rural town got their ideas from before TV?
Plastic wrapping on food – Greenpeace
Ac copy of BUND, the Friends of the Earth Germany magazine regularly drops into my letter box, until very recently it was wrapped in plastic. When I saw they'd swapped to a paper envelope I thought "maybe there is hope".
I know they're just tiny details but I can now buy apples in cardboard with no plastic, there are paper bags for the loose fruits and veg, they've put doors on all the fridges... .
Then I read the air-con thread. 🙁 One step foreward two steps back.
Where do you think people in a rural town got their ideas from before TV?
Duh, the squire, obvs, or at least his appointed regurgitator of information; probably in the quaint setting of a nice country inn...
Meanwhile, those that used their own Frontal Cortices and Hippocampi excessively would likely be open to ridicule and derision
Though I'm open to other theories...
I agree with you on that point jivehoney.
My parents and their generation thought that advertising and media had no influence on them, of this they were adamant, they saw TV as merely giving them a range of options.
My parents were very much the ones in control in this information exchange, they couldn't countenance the notion that they were somehow being influenced and I see think that most boomers who are still around continue to view media in that more binary, less pervasive way.
The next generation (X) was far more critical and better informed about the influence of media and advertising.
To think, we used to worry how the television might be a bad influence on the kids! Now we are more worried that it's trying to turn grandma into a terrorist.
"Where do you think people in a rural town got their ideas from before TV?"
The Church?
They’re absolutely linked. The more humanity in an area, the more use of resources, deforestation, pollution/emissions, loss of biodiversity and so on
Maybe that was true once upon a time - before industrialisation and globalisation - but we outsource most of that stuff nowadays. The Brazilian rainforest (for example) is far less densely-populated than the UK, yet the UK uses and abuses the Brazilian rainforest all day long in our shopping baskets.
Then take a look at the other ‘Amazon’. Dirty deeds done cheap out of our ‘area’.
Every generation in my own family has been aware of propaganda and the bias of media. My grandfather used to mock the WWII propaganda, my father often muttered "lying bastards" while reading the paper (but still bought it), us Boomers sang along to "It Says Here" by Billy Bragg and following generations had their own protest songs in addition to all that went before (Madame uses Strange Fruit by Billie Holiday in her classes still today). Junior is a proper revolutionary having been to Science Po and the Humbolt.
As Bunnyhop said somewhere, it's all down to education. It doesn't much matter what influencers and biased media sources spout if the audience is thinking critically. It's not what you are exposed to, its the way you recieve and percieve it.
"As Bunnyhop said somewhere, it’s all down to education"
I'm not so sure about this, in the example I gave reffering to my freind's dad, he was bemoaning precisely those who had received the benefits of the expansion in post war university education but were begining to pull the ladder up even back then during Thatcher's 80's
How do you educate people to not be Selfish?
It doesn’t much matter what influencers and biased media sources spout if the audience is thinking critically. It’s not what you are exposed to, its the way you recieve and percieve it.
Whilst I agree with what you're saying, on an individual level at least, we have to take into account herd instincts; all too often, whatever dissenting voices (often the brightest critical thinkers) may say, their wisdom is lost as slowly but surely, a stampede builds and the individual is lost as yet again we're corralled on the collective path instigated by the media at the behest of their masters, like it or no
I like very much this version of Jive.
Or are the people being corralled happy to be coralled because they are what drive the coralling. They are both cattle and cowboy.
You or I might see it's perhpas not in their best interests but the way they see themselves and their interests means that the propaganda just comforts views/feelings they already had and they are happy to be herded in that direction.
Have a look at the original Brixit thread. For some people one emotive point trumped any amount of potential loss or inconvenience. Call it instinct if you like. Sheep will run over a cliff when chased by a wolf and there's not much point trying to explain that there are better strategies when they are pretty much hard wired to flee whatever the consequences.
just comforts views/feelings they already had and they are happy to be herded in that direction
A lot of those views/feelings are likely to have been taught by their parents... in which case, boomers are back in the frame!
have been taught by their parents… in which case, boomers are back in the frame!
And yet you're claiming the milleniums and younger they brought up are more woke. Despite the media being more sold out than ever. Make your mind up. If the current generation is more woke it's perhaps because their boomer parents aren't as bad as you paint them and boomer teachers have done a damn good job of teaching woke. I always did and Madame still does. Back in the late 80s and early 90s I was already selecting text books with a chapter on the greenhouse effect (and having difficulty with everyone assuming it was something to do with the ozone layer).
The average age of a French electric car buyer is 56. Have a look at the petrolhead threads on here, the younger memebers are the more likely they are to buy a high performance second-hand ICE.
And yet you’re claiming the milleniums and younger they brought up are more woke
That's not at all what I'm claiming... many people have been targeting boomers as key to the predicament we find ourselves in, as if one specific generation conspired to destroy the planet for their own priviledged existence; clearly that's not the case.
Politics is being portrayed as key to the situation, as if different results in elections where both parties are broadly similar and serve the same interests would have had such repercussions as to alter the global landscape.
How many different election results around the globe would be required to change the weather we're experiencing today?
Of course, I'm not just talking about the UK, or Europe, or all the way yonder in Australia; I'm talking about the planet as a whole, as the issue is all encompassing; it doesn't matter who plonks their flag on a icecap, when that icecap melts and the flag sinks to the bottom of the ocean, like much low lying land is set to in the not so distant future.
Even if Jeremy Corbyn, the wonderjesus had been elected, he wouldn't have magically conjured a solution whereby events catalyzed decades before were turned around in 5 short years... especially with the bods in Whitehall steering government on behalf of Her Madge
I think we're all aware of that and have been for some time:
Edukator
Free MemberPointing out on STW that man's current activities will lead to climatic change that is undesirable as it will lead to much suffering for many is perhaps a waste of my time. My time might more usefully be spent on a US forum or trying to reach the billions of Chinese and Indians that want nothing more than to increase their carbon footprint and will soon threaten to nuke anyone that gets in the way of their aspirations. Laters.
Posted 12 years ago
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Nothing is stopping any of us doing what we can now rather than hunting for excuses or blaming otheres.
How do you educate people to not be Selfish?
A good question. We're not talking about academic education here. The way to educate people not to be selfish is to show them the real people and the humanity behind the stories and the statistics. Contrary to what people on here say, most people are not inherently that selfish. The problem is that there is a difference in our emotional response when it's someone you know or can relate to compared to when it's an 'other' group. That's why we are falling over ourselves to support Ukrainians, but much less so Syrians or Afghans. The reason people care less about the people from further away is not that they are brown, it's that they are an out-group, they aren't like us (white westerners). Most people are more hostile to any group they perceive to be 'other' and they attach undesirable behaviours to those groups to justify that hostility.
One area where education has had an effect is sexual orientation. When I was young most people were pretty homophobic, the adults as well. People thought it was 'disgusting' and 'not natural' etc etc. But now it's far more normalised. People are much more willing to accept homosexual love for what it is, we (or at least some of us) watch TV with touching and even explicit same-sex love scenes and we feel for the characters just the same. Those TV shows are presenting those relationships as normal and worthy and challenging us to see it that way as well. That is the sort of education I am talking about.
Even if Jeremy Corbyn, the wonderjesus had been elected, he wouldn’t have magically conjured a solution whereby events catalyzed decades before were turned around in 5 short years
Maybe not in 5 years, but he could have gone a long way towards demonstrating that there is another way. Or he could have stuffed it up, who knows?!
It's very interesting talking about milk deliveries, disposable, nappies, even wet wipes.
For example the milk delivery we use is from a local dairy, the milk hasn't gone to a 'central distribution centre', then re-distributed out to the supermarkets. Often a punnet of British strawberries will be picked in Kent, driven up to a processing centre, then driven back to a supermarket which is possibly only a few miles near the growing site, yet has travelled miles.
Regarding nappies, we all know that a disposable nappy takes approx 200 years to decompose or at the very least breakdown, whereas you can buy reuseable nappies, but of course they take lots of water to wash (boil wash ideally) and need drying, (there are laundry services available, but they are expensive).
Wet wipes - very convenient, great if you haven't got washing facilities to hand, but fill up landfill, bad when flushed down the loo (which far too many do) and have too much plastic in them to decompose properly.
Education will help a person make the necessary changes and choices. Don't be afraid to ask questions. If there are two lots of the same product, find out which is better for the environment. Pro and cons to everything.
The other evening I took out my 2004 'OnOne inbred' for a short easy mtb ride. Fully rigid, duff brakes, 26" wheels, and no slack whatsoever, blimey tons of fun. Everyone should drag out their old bike once in a while, even if it does sound like a bag of old spanners.
Big queue for the local jet wash this morning. Good that people aren't using a home hosepipe but sad that people feel the need to keep their PCP mobiles free from dust.
For example the milk delivery we use is from a local dairy, the milk hasn’t gone to a ‘central distribution centre’, then re-distributed out to the supermarkets. Often a punnet of British strawberries will be picked in Kent, driven up to a processing centre, then driven back to a supermarket which is possibly only a few miles near the growing site, yet has travelled miles.
Our local milkman company is owned by Muller (although not branded directly) , comes from a depo in Gloucester (not the diary), and strawberries and other fruit are again from larger distribution. But the milk delivery firm markets them selves as
To make sustainable living simpler for our customers, by selecting the finest eco-friendly groceries and delivering them to doorsteps in the most sustainable way.
Many of their suppliers are UK firms to be fair, but cirtainly not local. The reason I know that they are a small part of Muller, we used to use them as milk suppliers a number of years ago, when Muller bought them out they stopped all commercial delivery and concentrate on domestic. They lost lots of older customers at they same time as they went online only for orders, billing and enquiries.
My shop however the milk is from Gloucester and we sell strawberry's from Evesham. Like our meat, the in season fruits and veg generally come from within 50miles.
