Is there much evidence that Muslim children are under performing in exams? My wife teaches at a school with a large Muslim contingent and they seem to do well in comparison to other groups.
No, but the exams don't normally clash with Ramadan. This year they might under perform, because it does.
The print version isn't sure.
It says they have in the first paragraph, but changes it's mind later on.
Solo - MemberPlease don't take this the wrong way, but I believe you may have missed my point.
Ramadan isn't about the act of fasting, itself. Although fasting is a part of Ramadan.
I guess I must be missing your point? Because this doesn't make any difference to the actual discussion (though it is the fast which is causing the most concern, not other areas of observance) Moving exams isn't about making ramadan easier as you suggest.
I thought I was living in the U.K. not Daudi Drabia.
The local community centre is now an Islamic centre and the bars removed as it might offend Muslims.
The staff room at work is now a prayer room.
Muslims at work asked not to be sent Xmas cards yet Jews and Hindus sent cards regardless of religion.
Why do we tolerate a religion that won't tolerate non Muslims?
They have their own courts and law.
Keep all religions at home or faith centres not at work.
Why do we tolerate a religion that won't tolerate non Muslims?
This is an odd sentiment. You think they should be more tolerant, and until they are you don't think we should tolerate them. 😕
The local community centre is now an Islamic centre and the bars removed as it might offend Muslims.
If it is now an Islamic centre then they are not going to have a lot of use for bars are they?
Would you complain about the bars being removed if it had been turned into a nursery?
They have their own courts and law.
So do the Scottish - and what's more the Scottish laws actually legally override the English ones (unlike Sharia laws).
GrahamS - MemberWould you complain about the bars being removed if it had been turned into a nursery?
[img] 
[/img]
So does the Church of England. What's more, we even give them a say in the laws we ALL have to abide by!
Northwind - Member
GrahamS - Member
Would you complain about the bars being removed if it had been turned into a nursery?
Let me answer ...
No, for turning bars into nursery. This can be used by everyone especially parents who needs to work from home etc ...
Yes, I am deeply offended when bars are turn into religious room. This is only used by the few due to their belief and as we know they can pray from any location they want so long as they face the holy land ...
🙄
I thought I was living in the U.K. not Daudi Drabia.The local community centre is now an Islamic centre and the bars removed as it might offend Muslims.
The staff room at work is now a prayer room.
Muslims at work asked not to be sent Xmas cards yet Jews and Hindus sent cards regardless of religion.
Why do we tolerate a religion that won't tolerate non Muslims?
They have their own courts and law.
Keep all religions at home or faith centres not at work.
You should spend less time trolling and more time riding in the wet, you're not very good at it.
Also they need to pray five times a day so do you down tool if they wish to pray during the busiest time of the day? ... In Muslamic country we down tool or face prosecution but me mates would go for a smoke or coffee instead ... we like prayer time we do. Also as our public sector is 99% Muslamic, yes you get the job based on your religious belief, we learn not to ask for public service during prayer time. 😆
'Pandering', Hmmm..., depends how one interprets the word. Here's an instance though...
Christmas day was on a Friday this year. What day do Muslims practice their main prayers? Is it Friday (or does Friday have a particular significance?)
They have their own courts and law.
So do the Scottish - and what's more the Scottish laws actually legally override the English ones (unlike Sharia laws).
Poor troll or really that ignorant? Scotland is not in England - the laws don't override English ones. English laws also don't apply in France, USA or Saudi Arabia because they are, like Scotland, not in England.
Friday is just the day that they are called to do a public prayer at middayWhat day do Muslims practice their main prayers? Is it Friday (or does Friday have a particular significance?
Its not the main prayer just the public one.
Its in the Quran and the hadith to do this.
Friday is also their "holy day"
Friday prayers tend to be the best attended, not least as its not a work day as it is their hoky day as JY says inthe same way Sunday is for Christians. As an aside its quite usual for radicalised preachers to incite violence during Friday prayers and its often a time of great tention in the Middle East. My friends in Saudi wouod frequently find their accomodation surrounded or attacked, sometimes even shot at after Friday prayers.
Poor troll or really that ignorant? Scotland is not in England - the laws don't override English ones.
Perhaps just poor wording on my part?
As I understand it it is a little more nuanced. Scots Law and English Law are separate systems (as is Northern Ireland law) but they share common legislature. Legislation passed in the Westminster Parliament usually changes all of them (except on devolved matters, though even that could be forced).
I should probably have said something like "in Scotland Scots Law can take legal precedence when conflicting with UK-wide laws that would apply in England". Is that any better?
The main thrust of my point however was that that although Frankenstein complains that Muslims [i]"have their own courts and law"[/i], they don't have power to legally overrule UK law.
To take a deliberately extreme example, a Sharia court in the UK doesn't get to sentence someone to death because they are still bound by UK law.
Clearer?
http://fullfact.org/law/uk_sharia_courts-39429
Why do we tolerate a religion that won't tolerate non Muslims?
Lol I missed this.
Asking not to tolerate people because they are intolerant? Priceless 🙂
i've been meaning to post on this but i havent. seems to me that some people dont quite get the concept of ramadan and think it is something that is forced on every muslim regardless of age and circumstances.
i've posted many times before explaining the concept of ramadan so i wont do it here...
My twopence worth as a Muslim ;All Muslims have to fast except in certain conditions. Your sick , pregnant, travelling you don't have to in fact for the latter two it's forbidden. If your long term sick ie diabetic or of old age you don't fast. In this scenario you pay a donation to feed the poor and impoverished. Everybody else who misses any fasts has to make them before the next Ramadan so basically you have a year to catch up. Muslims don't just fast in Ramadan you can fast throughout the year these are known as optional fasts and are recommended for Mondays and Thursdays. Again these aren't compulsory but highly recommended for health and wellbeing. So yes they were there well before 5/2 was ever heard of.
So the last Ramadan in 2015 was the longest I've known it since I was a child but the fact is you adapt and you learn. You learn how to manage your time and sleep. You learn that food isn't the be all and end all. You learn which foods are good full of nutrients and you manage with less. If you have the time watch this video
i think this is as good an explanation as you'll get over the exceptions of fasting during ramadan with an very interesting video link
JZK Lalazar
Anyway, so Muslim school kids are at a disadvantage during Ramadan but employees are perfectly capable of carry out their duties, like Doctors, Surgeons, Dentists, police and school teachers ?
ramadan becomes obligatory to all muslims beyond puberty so from about 12/13 they are expected to fast during the month unless they fall into a category that makes them exempt as mentioned by Lalazar.
the difference here is that a 16 year old will only have had a few years fasting experience in comparison to a, say, 35 years old who has more fasting experience and should therefore be able to physically/mentally tolerate and cope with the demands of fasting.
I don't understand OP's query. They moved the exam dates - hasn't negatively affected anyone, but will make a positive contribution to some pupils...what is the problem with that?
@gonzy as always interetsing and informative to hear your views.
My 2p is that once working you can manage things in a way that kids can't hide when taking an exam, as I posted I'd be in favour of a seperate exam taken at a slightly different time but not for moving the whole schedule.
They moved the exam dates
They didn't.
gonzy - Member
Anyway, so Muslim school kids are at a disadvantage during Ramadan but employees are perfectly capable of carry out their duties, like Doctors, Surgeons, Dentists, police and school teachers ?
Really? Who told you? I have never heard of such thing growing up in a Muslamic country ... 😯
My 2p is that once working you can manage things in a way that kids can't hide when taking an exam, as I posted I'd be in favour of a seperate exam taken at a slightly different time but not for moving the whole schedule.
Separate exams would put one group at a disadvantage jambalaya. If the Muslim student were told to sit their exams after Ramadan, do you think it would be fair on the other students who sat exams earlier with less time to prepare and revise?
I thought the whole point of this was to put all the students on a level playing field.
Tbh I don't think it should make a difference with changing the dates. Those who could be affected can be made exempt during the exams and catch up those fasts at a later date.
I've sat exams when I was younger when fasting....never bothered or affected me 9r anyone else I know. I you did badly it wasn't because you were hungry, it was because you didn't revise or try hard enough or because you were plain old thick.
If the Muslim student were told to sit their exams after Ramadan, do you think it would be fair on the other students who sat exams earlier with less time to prepare and revise?
Plus they might get told what the questions were by their mates.
Students with poor handwriting can use a word processor in an exam, or have a scribe or transcript.
Students wirh dyslexia can have 25% extra time (up to 100% extra at the exam board's discretion) and/or coloured paper, and/or a reader to read the questions to them.
Students with anxiety, ADHD or about a million other reasons can sit their exam in a seperate room. Those with ADHD can also have a prompt.
Students can have a seperate room with music playing.
Students who have lived in Britain for less than 3 years can have 25% extra time and a bilingual dictionary.
There are many, many more access arrangements available.
Allowing students the chance to sit their exams when they are not fasting doesn't really seem like excessive pandering in comparirson to the special arrangements that other students can have.
NB - before anyone asks where I got that information from, I am an exams officer.
But your examples cover different forms of disabilities, none of them religion or even cults like islam.
Plus they might get told what the questions were by their mates.
Different papers. Gonzy's point is a good one that students should't be at a significant advantage / disadvatage from earlier / later exams.
Different papers.
I'd have thought that having Muslim students sit a different paper to everyone else would be far more controversial than just setting the date considerately.
Pretty inflammatory TBH. I (even as a ‘radical’ atheist 😆 ) wouldn't call it a cult, any more than I would call Catholicism, CofE, Hinduism or Sikhism a cult. Factions within, maybe, but the overlying philosophy? No greater or lesser respect due to any of them; and that level of respect is that of live and let live, not insult and denigrate.…cults like islam
cults like islam
a very poor attempt at trolling...1/10 - must try harder next time 🙄
now get back under your bridge and wait for the goats!
Different papers
Then you have the issue of norming as one will be seen to be easier than another - well that an the added costs of more than one paper from each exam board
Not a practical solution but not impossible
its only the mods that stop proper racism from coming outPretty inflammatory TBH.
