As stated above, there are plenty of exemptions allowed for Ramadan fasting.
I am amazed at the number of radical atheists on here that are supporting starving a child for the sake of your imaginary friend.
they might actually be choosing to fast because they want to.
Can they not also choose to eat sensibly while taking exams?
The society we live in now would be very different if it was the product of centuries/millennia of Islam* rather than Christianity being the dominant religion.So it's not totally BS to say it's a Christian country, even if very few of the people living in it are Christians in any meaningful sense any more.
We are a partly product of our history, some of which was Christian, but there are pretty big differences in the cultures of different historically Christian countries, so there is more to it than that.
We're a western European post-colonial post-Christian country.
No one is making you believe in a god of any kind.
Hmmm... well my daughter is getting religion from [i]somewhere[/i] and it isn't me or her mum.
Maybe the school's daily act of worship, bible stories, harvest festival, nativity play and carol singing has some influence on her young mind?
It's kind of hard to say to a 5 year old [i]"You go to school to learn so listen to what your teachers tell you. Unless they talk about God and stuff obviously"[/i]
Can they not also choose to eat sensibly while taking exams?
They could have made that choice yes.
But they don't need to now do they, because someone sensible has made a decision and made it easier for them.
Speaking as an atheist dad regularly listening to his 5 year old spouting Christian doctrine about God creating the world and man as an absolute fact - and rather disregarding our various trips to museums to looks at dinosaur bones
From my experience, I'm happy to say, they get a lot more questioning and open-minded by the time they're 6 or 7 and can actually spot the silly bits. I had the same worries when they were younger.
My two have an atheist dad and a (wooly, liberal, Anglican) Christian mum. We went to church as a family most Sundays and they went to Sunday school, etc. and had the in-school indoctrination too (though not in a Church school). I was very careful to remain neutral.
The twelve-year-old has been a vocal atheist for years, and the ten-year-old told my dad last year that she's "not a proper Christian" because she doesn't believe in God, she believes in science.
The society we live in now would be very different if [b]we hadn't had slavery.[/b]So it's not totally BS to say it's a [b]slave-owning[/b] country, even if very few of the people living in it [b]have slaves[/b] any more.
Does that still work?
Sometimes the past that your country is built on is just that: the past
We are a partly product of our history, some of which was Christian, but there are pretty big differences in the cultures of different historically Christian countries, so there is more to it than that.We're a western European post-colonial post-Christian country.
Surely we are totally a product of our history? Which, yeah, does include more than Christianity- I did say it's not [i]total[/i] BS!
But I think the point stands- Christianity has played a large part in shaping the society we have now. I don't think you have to be a 'real' Christian to acknowledge it. I'm certainly not!
Let's try some others:
The society we live in now would be very different if we hadn't had a largely rural agrarian population.
So it's not totally BS to say it's a largely rural agrarian population country, even if very few of the people living in it work in fields any more.
Surely we are totally a product of our history? Which, yeah, does include more than Christianity- I did say it's not total BS!
But I think the point stands- Christianity has played a large part in shaping the society we have now. I don't think you have to be a 'real' Christian to acknowledge it. I'm certainly not!
It's a bit of a leap from "Christianity played a part in shaping our society" to "we're a Christian country" to "make the Muslim kids do their exams hungry".
No forgiveness without repentance in Christianity
That raises an interesting question - how do you repent when you've done nothing wrong?
The current timing of the exams is based on the school calendar, which is based on the legal calendar's long summer break, which is based on the Thames getting smelly in the summer. The historical smelliness of the Thames has more influence on the timing of the exams than our Christian heritage.
I live opposite a standard, modern Christian church..
The sparkly eyed, fresh faced teens that attend the youth group there are ****ing weirdos, every last one of them..
Stepford wives for the 21st century, they stick out like a sore thumb in their squeaky clean clothes and maniacal grins..
20 odd brainwashed fruitloops in a town of 80 000
Christian country my hairy brown arse
Surely everyone knows that everyone is Islam is forced to do it by someone else probably a bullying man and no one freely chooses to do anything. Its only christians who are free to choose. Muslims are oppressed into it.Do you think these kids might be any different ?And that they might actually be choosing to fast because they want to.
Does that still work?Sometimes the past that your country is built on is just that: the past
It [i]would[/i] be different if there hadn't been slavery, wouldn't it?
But I'm not sure your substitution quite works. It's obviously rubbish to claim that this is a country of god-fearing church-goers, but I think saying it's a Christian country is a bit more nuanced than that. And I did qualify it pretty heavily, to acknowledge it's an important part of where we are now. I could say the same for slavery.
It's a bit of a leap from "Christianity played a part in shaping our society" to "we're a Christian country" to "make the Muslim kids do their exams hungry".
It sure is. Can you point out where I made it?
she doesn't believe in God, she believes in science.
But they aren't mutually exclusive, plenty of top scientists believe in a God.
I feel your pain. How are you dealing with it? My best tactic so far seems to be to just say, "that's a great story isn't it? Although I definitely prefer the Cat in the Hat/Gruffalo/Planes Fire and Rescue*" which hopefully puts the God stories on a literary footing in miniV8s brain where they should be, rather than a factual footing. The teaching of religion as fact does drive me mad though.Hmmm... well my daughter is getting religion from somewhere and it isn't me or her mum.
It sure is. Can you point out where I made it?
I'm not saying you did, but it has been made during this thread as a reason for not 'pandering'.
she doesn't believe in God, she believes in science.
But they aren't mutually exclusive, plenty of top scientists believe in a God.
I didn't say they were mutually exclusive, but in her nine-year-old mind there's clearly a link.
I'd also dispute 'plenty', and say that probably 'some' would be a better description.
I feel your pain. How are you dealing with it? My best tactic so far seems to be to just say, "that's a great story isn't it? Although I definitely prefer the Cat in the Hat/Gruffalo/Planes Fire and Rescue*" which hopefully puts the God stories on a literary footing in miniV8s brain where they should be, rather than a factual footing. It does make me mad though.
I go for "that's what some people believe, but other people believe [i]x[/i], and I believe [i]y[/i]".
unfitgeezer - Memberhttp://www.bbc.co.uk/news/education-35244444
Perhaps children ought not to fast !
What next ?
I don't know but I'll take a guess at yet another moronic, trolling post from you.
Do you write into the Daily Mail signing yourself "Outraged of Tunbridge Wells"?
That's because; a) 'radical atheists' tend to be far more tolerant of the religious than vice versa, right up until the point at which the religious start trying to impose their cult upon others, and b) 'starving children for an imaginary friend' is sensationalist BS, and demonstrates either a remarkably poor understanding of the religion in question, or a Daily Mailesque level of prejudice.I am amazed at the number of radical atheists on here that are supporting starving a child for the sake of your imaginary friend.
I feel your pain. How are you dealing with it? My best tactic so far seems to be to just say, "that's a great story isn't it? Although I definitely prefer the Cat in the Hat/Gruffalo/Planes Fire and Rescue*" which hopefully puts the God stories on a literary footing in miniV8s brain where they should be, rather than a factual footing. It does make me mad though.
I don't have kids but if/when I do then I will be stealing that idea, that's awesome.
I don't dislike religion per-se, I just hate how it is forced upon people, kids or otherwise.
plenty of top scientists believe in a God
I'd also dispute 'plenty', and say that probably 'some' would be a better description.
Because I like evidence:
A survey of scientists who are members of the American Association for the Advancement of Science, conducted by the Pew Research Center for the People & the Press in May and June 2009, finds that members of this group are, on the whole, much less religious than the general public.1 Indeed, the survey shows that scientists are roughly half as likely as the general public to believe in God or a higher power. According to the poll, just over half of scientists (51%) believe in some form of deity or higher power; specifically, 33% of scientists say they believe in God, while 18% believe in a universal spirit or higher power. By contrast, 95% of Americans believe in some form of deity or higher power, according to a survey of the general public conducted by the Pew Research Center in July 2006. Specifically, more than eight-in-ten Americans (83%) say they believe in God and 12% believe in a universal spirit or higher power. Finally, the poll of scientists finds that four-in-ten scientists (41%) say they do not believe in God or a higher power, while the poll of the public finds that only 4% of Americans share this view. - http://www.pewforum.org/2009/11/05/scientists-and-belief/
tldr: 33% of American scientists believe in God, compared to 83% of Americans. 40% of American scientists are atheists, compared to 4% of Americans.
Those numbers would be very different for British scientists and general public, in a non-religious direction.
I am amazed at the number of radical atheists on here that are supporting starving a child for the sake of your imaginary friend.
That's because; a) 'radical atheists' tend to be far more tolerant of the religious than vice versa, right up until the point at which the religious start trying to impose their cult upon others, and b) 'starving children for an imaginary friend' is sensationalist BS, and demonstrates either a remarkably poor understanding of the religion in question, or a Daily Mailesque level of prejudice.
And because there's a difference between "atheist" and "dick".
We are a Christian country and the majority (?) of our schools are Catholic or CoE that's why our holidays and term dates reflect those festivals. I have mixed feelings about rescheduling exams in order to accomodate just 8% of the students. Ramadan lasts for a month, it's not like we are speaking about moving the exams a day or two. Exams could be scheduled for the morning when children and relatively well resed and have just eaten ?
Complex subject
EDIT: On further relfection I have no issue with schools electing to take a seperate exam at a differemt time, I imagine that would hae to be earlier in fhe year prior to Ramadan and not after as that allows extra revsion time. I do not believe exam times for 92% of the school population should be moved to accomodate 8%
What next ?
You making a useful contribution to this forum?
OK, maybe not.
School terms scheduled to accommodate major religious festivals?
This was up for debate last year in Denmark, one of the politicians actually wanted the opposite.
They they had to reschedule their religious festival so it did not occur when they had exams.
Can you define plenty as a numerical value?But they aren't mutually exclusive, plenty of top scientists believe in a God.
As for mutually exclusive they are
Either the big sky fairy thing did it or they did not. Science has no place at all for a god in its explanations and religion only has a place for god in its explanation.
All you have done is show that some people are able to hold mutually incompatible /inconsistent views but that is not news.
the 'requirement' for the PM to be a member of the CofE
Whew! Bet Gordon Brown's glad that he got away with that one...
School holidays in Scotland used to be arranged so kids could work at the tattie picking. Mucking around with the timetable to facilitate child labour. Outrageous.
Ramadan lasts for a month, it's not like we are speaking about moving the exams a day or two. Exams could be scheduled for the morning when children and relatively well resed and have just eaten ?
According to [url= http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/education-35244444 ]this BBC article[/url] " many core exams had been set for before Ramadan starts on 6 June, but there had been no large scale changes".
Pupils in England, Wales and Northern Ireland will sit GCSEs and A-levels between May 16 and June 29 this year and Ramadan runs from 6 June to 5 July.
"Where possible, large-entry GCSE and GCE subjects are timetabled prior to the commencement of Ramadan and consideration given to whether they are timetabled in the morning or afternoon."
This could mean that subjects taken by large numbers of students, such as GCSE English and maths, may be timetabled early in the exams season before Ramadan, or taken at a time of day to lessen the effect on students who might be fasting.
The entire exam window isn't being moved, just some relatively minor changes.
the 'requirement' for the PM to be a member of the CofEWhew! Bet Gordon Brown's glad that he got away with that one...
For Scots, apparently, the Church of Scotland is acceptable.
Edit: a quick search gave http://ask.metafilter.com/190254/In-practice-could-a-Catholic-be-British-Prime-Minister where it looks more like a prohibition on Catholics, though I don't think there's ever been an openly non-protestant PM?
[img] 
[/img]
Ramadan lasts for a month, it's not like we are speaking about moving the exams a day or two.
From the article:
"Ramadan shifts slightly each year in relation to the Western calendar.
It follows the Muslim calendar and, this year, runs from 6 June to 5 July.
Pupils in England, Wales and Northern Ireland will sit GCSEs and A-levels between May 16 and June 29 this year."
Exams could be scheduled for the morning when children and relatively well resed and have just eaten ?
Also from the article:
"This could mean that subjects taken by large numbers of students, such as GCSE English and maths, may be timetabled early in the exams season before Ramadan, [b]or taken at a time of day to lessen the effect on students who might be fasting.[/b]"
Edit: Mike quotes articles faster than me 😉
🙂
Sensationalist bollocks. Just move the bloody exams to give everyone a fair chance. People have a right to observe their beliefs. Not the end of the world is it?
Exams could be scheduled for the morning when children and relatively well resed and have just eaten ?
Its just not possible to only have morning exams. Its logistically impossible - without doubling the length of time you test for. There are always exams am and PM
Jesus would be fizzing at the clopper
A boy once threw up on me during an exam after eating too many chocolate sweeties - I say they should all be on Ramadam.
Its just not possible to only have morning exams. Its logistically impossible - without doubling the length of time you test for. There are always exams am and PM
But relatively easy to do this for core exams, where a large number of students will be affected, which is what has been done.
Just give everyone an A*, it's not rocket science.
[quote=pjt201 spake unto the masses, saying]unfitgeezer - Member
Because we are a Christian country !
But we're not, we're an irreligous country. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Religion_in_the_United_Kingdom
Well, absurd as it may be, we are - the head of state is also the head of the church (AIUI)
Either the big sky fairy thing did it or they did not. Science has no place at all for a god in its explanations and religion only has a place for god in its explanation.
A mate of mine once said he had more respect for extremists than the rest of the religious populous. At least the extremists take it all and do something with it as opposed to the rest who pick and choose what they want to believe. If you're going to believe it, do it properly.
Well, absurd as it may be, we are - the head of state is also the head of the church (AIUI)
Thank the lord, it's only an English problem.
