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why am I full of shit... some geordies expressed a dislike of muslims by burning a book, they got arrested for "inciting racial hatred"
Well, they did do something deliberately to peeve another group. That's where the 'racial hatred' bit comes from. It's a bit like standing up in the middle of town and starting to speak about how all 'Insert pejorative / racist term here' should all go back where they came from. We don't have that freedom, whether or not we should have, is a different argument.
The use of the term race w.r.t. Muslims is perfectly reasonable, race has wider meaning than a narrow definition based on genetics, but this is a pointless semantic argument. I'm generally anti-semantic.
CharlieMungus - Member
I'm generally anti-semantic.
What did the Jews ever do to you?
Isn't the book burning just harking back to the late 80's when bearded men could frequently be seen on the streets of the uk burning copies of the satanic verses and calling fir Salman Rushdie to be killed?
As with the regular burnings of the stars and stripes in ****stan, it's the response of the beardy weirdies that gave the act of book burning the significance in the first place. There have also been regular burnings of the bible in predominantly Moslem countries yet we don't see Christians demanding death to the citizens of these states.
If religions are ever going to get along, something that seems increasingly unlikely given the seemingly unstopppable rise of radicalism, it requires allpeople of faith to stop making the acts of idiots significant by responding to them disproportionately.
Have reported this to Mods.
What on Earth for? It's not really offensive.
Filthy is correct in saying that Geordies, like all minority groups, are entitled to an opinion.
Where he misses the point though, imo, is the fact that these dickheads aren't trying to make a valid political point or anything, they're just doing something they know will upset others. Because they're sad inadequate tossers. I feel sorry for people like that; I pity them. How can you be so thick and ignorant that this is the only way you can express yourself?
I think you should have the right to voice your pinions; however, there should be boundaries. And act like this isn't really about stimulating debate/postulating ideas, is it? It's about trying to instigate a fight.
I discuss Zionism and Israel's treatment of Palestinians with Jewish friends of mine, some of whom believe in the concept of a Jewish homeland. I don't share this view. We discuss it in a respectful, amicable manner. I don't turn up with a Swastika armband, because I can articulate my opinions in an effective and reasonable manner.
These sad ****s can't do that. The only language they can use is hatred and aggression.
BTW I do not wish to imply in any way that Geordies, as a race, are inherently racist or xenophobic, and do not consider these individuals to be representative of Geordies in any way.
[i]It seems were not even allowed to have an opinion anymore[/i]Have reported this to Mods.
See? See what I did there?
It's funny because he expressed an opinion abouot not being allowed to express and opinion and i pretended to report him for it. See?
Oh right I get yer. I was too blinded by hate to see the irony. 😳
[i]What on Earth for? It's not really offensive. [/i]
Er. For irony value. The opinion that we're not allowed to have an opinion gets reported? Never mind. It made me do a RealLOL, though. Well done.
that's ok, he missed it as well. My talents are wasted here.
Elfin - Too blinded by thinking about kylie and interfering with yourself more like.
sn't the book burning just harking back to the late 80's when bearded men could frequently be seen on the streets of the uk burning copies of the satanic verses and calling fir Salman Rushdie to be killed?
Tsk. Pesky literary critics...
Curses! Too slow am I!
Oooh....Kylie....
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Now, where was I?
that's ok, he missed it as well. My talents are wasted here.
It made me laugh, I laughed even more at Filthy missing the point.
So filthy - in what way were the people doing this treated as terrorists?
Please explain.
yeah went right over my head too...
very good Charlie
TJ- That pic is a real show stopper. Well done
under the various acts that govern this sort of thing muslims are considered a race and are given the same protection.
Which is more than slightly barmy! Muslims come from all different races. These two groups are quite different. This generalisation could in fact be seen as an insult by muslims!
There should be a clear distinction between these two very different crimes.
Posting videos like burning religious books was clearly done to upset people and for this, the culprits should be punished, but as to what the punishment should be, I don't really know. It definitely ain't racist though!
If these "various acts governing this sort of thing" are so general, you may as well lump in any so called minority group. You could then be called a racist for discriminating against lesbians/gays! (if you were a narrow minded homophobe).
Race and religion are two separate entities, but linked by culture.
Culture? Define that in Britain today? Impossible! We have 186 languages spoken in the London Borough of Newham for just one example. Which one shall we choose? Which culture of which country? How will we avoid upsetting one or several of those minorities?
We have a rich language, so why not use it's vocabulary to describe what we actually mean instead of confusing the hell out of people and potentially criminalising those who haven't yet caught up with all the political correctness!
Religous hatred - one type of crime
Racial hatred - another type of crime
Both very wrong, but not the same!
it seems from reading that link that TJ posted were not allowed to say what we think of various religions anymore.
Of course we're allowed to say what we think. But we also have a social, moral and (more importantly) legal responsibility to ensure our words and deeds do not cause offence or harm to others. What's the problem with that?
I really don't comprehend how Islam has transmogrified into a race.
I've already explained this. Had you been paying attention, you'd understand.
Religous hatred - one type of crime
Racial hatred - another type of crime
..and both caught under the same legislation, whether you think that is correct or not.
I find it odd that we think we have the right to burn the holiest book and act all surprised that this causes offences. A bit like me thing I have the right to come round your house and calling your wife names and and acting all surprised when you are offended and thump me /kick me out. We have freedom of specch not freedon to offend
😆
Why is the Quran holier than the Bible or the Torah?
It's nothing like going to someones property and verbally abusing them. What a strange analogy.
That said, it is a truly disrespectful thing to do.
In my opinion which isn't always right but I like it 😉
The geordies were treated as terrorists because I though the laws regarding "inciting racial hatred" came about as part of the anti terror laws.
I was more annoyed as it seemed like they were expressing thier freedom of speach which has been eroded recently in this country, however as most of you have pointed out they did go a bit far with the book burning, I did say that I didn't condone the burning of books in my first post.
Anyway I'm off to cook my tea, sick of been treated like a terrorist by you lot.
Religous hatred - one type of crime
Racial hatred - another type of crimeBoth very wrong, but not the same!
both very similar and luckily and neatly caught under the same bit of legislation..
[url= http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2006/1/contents ]link[/url]
The geordies were treated as terrorists because I though the laws regarding "inciting racial hatred" came about as part of the anti terror laws
are you a martian..?
Anyway I'm off to cook my tea, sick of been treated like a terrorist by you lot.
Why not organise a Dirty Protest?
I'd be up for that! 😀
In my opinion which isn't always right but I like it
Hence the full of shite bit. 😀
The geordies were treated as terrorists because I though the laws regarding "inciting racial hatred" came about as part of the anti terror laws.
That still wouldn't make them terrorists.
http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/race?&qsrc=
3.
Anthropology .
...
b.
an arbitrary classification of modern humans, sometimes, esp. formerly, based on any or a combination of various physical characteristics, as skin color, facial form, or eye shape, and now frequently based on such genetic markers as blood groups.
...
5.
any people united by common history, language, cultural traits, etc.: the Dutch race.
We have freedom of specch not freedon to offend
I am offended by your spelling. No one should be arrested for it though.
[i]But we also have a social, moral and (more importantly)legal responsibility to ensure our words and deeds do not cause offence or harm to others[/i]
Do we actually have a legal obligation not to offend others? I'm not aware of it, and John Cleese famously said "no-one has the right not to be offended" - though, of course, he unfortunately didn't write the statute on this one. If I say the pope looks like he's walking round in a pair of curtains designed for a priest to hide in so as to covertly touch nearby boys, then I'm probably offending a few people but I don't believe it's illegal.
Causing offence is not the same as things like "inciting racial hatred" - one just makes people upset, the other knowingly and intentionally drives people to illegal action.
Personally I think socially and morally we actually have a duty to offend some people in some ways. Any time people hold up some writing in defence of any sort of oppressive behaviour, for instance, I think they need a good bit of offending. (Another quote, this time Tim Minchin: "It's not that I hate religion, I just think we should ridicule it until it's removed from our schools and our governments".) There are things that should be challenged and causing offence can be a constructive way of doing so. However, videoing yourself burning Korans is clearly not constructive offence, whereas it may be done so as to whip up anti-Muslim fervour in those already of a similar leaning.
There have also been regular burnings of the bible in predominantly Moslem countries yet we don't see Christians demanding death to the citizens of these states.
Maybe Christians would be a bit more radical if Muslim countries were invading and occupying Christian countries on a semi-regular basis?
Do we actually have a legal obligation not to offend others? I'm not aware of it
One bit that I know of is under Public Order (section 5) which states that 'language or behaviour likely to cause offence' ist verboten. This relates to public places, mind, but I'm pretty sure there are similar laws which apply to broadcast media, which this particular case involves.
So, erm, yes.
More Kylie? I think so! 😀
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Well, it is almost Friday...
Maybe Christians would be a bit more radical if Muslim countries were invading and occupying Christian countries on a semi-regular basis?
+ a gazillion..
invading.. occupying.. forcing to adopt a very foreign culture.. wiping out minority groups that voice disapproval..
where is the line between terrorist.. insurgent.. guerrilla.. freedom fighter.. resistance fighter.. farmer trying to protect his wife.. family.. home.. cultural identity..?
Right then, let's dispense with the moronic actions of a bunch of nazi cockmonkeys. I'm more concerned with fred's apparently blossoming interest in coprophilia. Bad boy, dirty boy, in your bed!
What, no Dirty Protest?
(Waits with own poo in hand, but no-one to throw it at)
🙁
Why is the Quran holier than the Bible or the Torah?
Because Islam specifically places a very high value on the book, not just the words and concepts that are written in it. I believe that it's a specific sin/very bad thing in Islam to desecrate or destroy a Koran, or something like that.
Years ago, during a World Cup, Robert Wiseman Dairies printed milk cartons with the flags of competing nations on them. This caused a minor fuss, because Saudi Arabia's flag has a verse from the Koran on it, so anyone throwing a carton with that flag away would be committing blasphemy!
Whether or not you think it's a bit silly for a religion to place such a value in the vessel as well as the ideas it contains is up to you. Nevertheless that's probably why buring a Koran is more inflammatory than burning a bible.
elfin - I believe that yesterday I likened you to an enraged mandrill. You're further insistence today in going feeshus crazy is unlikely to change my opinion. 😐
Fair enough really, although I don't have a distended red bottom.
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Oi
No being apeist How dare you compare and innocent ape to the shitflinging elf!
Why does this subject come up over and over again on STW ?
The pattern it follows is [i]always[/i] the same. The racists and bigots take one position, and the more enlighten forum users take the opposite position......nothing ever changes.
.
I thought one of the great things about living in the UK is that we can do this sort of thing if we want to.
Well you were wrong............hopefully.
It is no different to pissing on a war memorial.
It has absolutely f##kall to do with freedom of speech or freedom of expression.
The individuals concerned are perfectly entitled to have their opinions.
No one is denying them that right.
Said nazi c0ckmonkeys will have been charged with an offence involving stirring up hatred against persons on racial or religious grounds. The 'inciting' bit would be the filming (presumably for some sort of distribution), IIRC
amzed the thread has not been closed might just risk a gypsy thread
Islam isn't a race, but arabic certainly is, and when you get a braindead qu'ran burner most likely you'll find they don't like arabs much, or other races- how many people object so strongly to egyptian muslims, or british muslims? In the mind of the halfwit the 2 go together, muslims are towelheads and ****s.
Or so it seems to me anyway, in this country. I guess in the states islam = black in the minds of boneheads.
Presumably they're not being prosecuted for the burning, but rather the filming and posting it which might reasonable considered some form of encitement? (I wrote excitement there first but that was Kylie's fault)
Very interesting thread.
An Islamic scholar appeared on Radio 4 recently stating that in many muslim countries, it is perfectly acceptable to burn copies of the Koran - for example if they have become old, damaged and no longer readable.
Common practice apparantly.
I can't remember exactly which programme this was on (possibly 'Beyond Belief') but it was in the run up to the 11/9 anniversary.
Find it very alarming that this case has been brought, TBH.
I was very worried when this act was brought in and wondered how long it would be before something like this happened.
IMO, incitement to racial hatred is a crime wholly deserving of prosecution, but incitement to religious hatred is a very grey area:
We cannot choose our race. We can however choose to follow a religion.
We do not have a right not to be offended. Religious belief is an opinion and should be subject to the same questioning as any other opinion. If this questioning spills over into ridicule (as in accordance with human nature, it inevitably will), then so be it - nasty people will be nasty, it's what they do.
This particular law legitimises the right for the religious to be offended and raises religious opinion above all other forms of opinion.
Personally, I have nothing against Muslims, Christians, Jews, Scientoligists or followers of any religion.
They are entitled to their beliefs and freedom to worship, as am I.
However, I personally belive faith in a god (or gods) to be irrational.
I hesitate to use the words pureile, stupid, childish and incomprehensible when referring to faith, as personally I'd rather have engage in debate than be offensive, but others do and it amounts to the same thing:
I do not belive in your invisible friend and consider you irrational for doing so.
Many people would be offended if I said this to them, and the grey area between this offence and 'incitement to hatred' is a very dubious one.
It's going to be very interesting to see on exactly which grounds a presecution is brought. If a racial element is present, then they are deserving of punishment. If not, a very dangerous precedent will have been set.
Being stupid (as these people obviously are) is not a crime.
Offending someone's religious opinion should not be a crime either.
Religious belief is an opinion and should be subject to the same questioning as any other opinion.
Why the **** should it be ?
You have absolutely no right to question other people's religious beliefs.
Mind your own ****ing business and just get on with your own sad little life.
🙄