Terrible roads, awful public transport, crumbling schools, squalid housing for millions of people, prisons so bad European states will not extradite criminals, councils going bust, a neofeudal land 'distribution' system, no tax for the extremely wealthy, the capital city awash with dirty money, criminally inept but unaccountable governemnt, etc., a captive media owned by a handful of billionaires, the list goes on and on. At the end of almost forteen years of 'austerity', Brexit, etc., the chickens seem to well and truly coming home to roost. Is this a terminal decline or are we at the crest where this wave of stunning decline finally breaks?
Not third world, but it has been noticeably slipping, imo, since 2018.
I return sporadically and am struck each time by the apparent decline.
A failed state. A banana republic without the sun
Most of the op has been true for many years.
Third world no, run down yes.
Banana republic, with highly corrupt politicians feathering their own nests might be a closer description.
Not 3rd world, but on a par with Greece or Italy.
i think we've had delusions of grandeur for some time
austerity was a terrible mistake
We were discussing this and agreed it probably peaked around 2012 at the time of the Olympics....been downhill every since sadly. At this point, I'm struggling to see how it can recover but I don't think it's hit rock bottom yet
The UK is definitely moving in that direction.
In real terms LA funding by central gov has been cut by 50% since 2010 and there's a continuing devolution of responsibility from central to local gov - do more with less.
Tory gov has no interest in slowing or stopping the decline - they'll be out at the next GE so, from their perspective...cream it while you can.
Starmer & co don't, I fear, have any real grasp of the scale of the problems they will inherit - nor does anyone else.
I'm not convinced by MMT but it's clear that adherence to 'balancing the books' will do nothing to help a Lab gov.
In some senses the dismal state of the UK and an electoral shagging for the tories could well lead to their return next time around - starmer/corbyn/wilson have had a go but we still haven't got to the sunlit uplands so...let the other lot have another go.
What a mess.
Terminal decline.
Banana republic - without bananas so here...suck these lemons.
A semi collapsed society, one step removed Mad Max.
We do now seem to be in a death spiral where 13 years of failed policy, flagrant corruption, rank incompetence and corporate profiteering are all coming home to roost at the same time
The UK is a shambles at the moment, and there is some appalling poverty, but some of you melodramatic people need a nice cup of tea and a sit down. The UK remains one of the most developed and comfortable countries on the planet. Wibbling about failed states just shows you have no idea what a failed state is and haven't seen how people in poor countries live.
The biggest council in the country has just declared itself bankrupt. 20 more are said to be on the brink of doing the same
I’d say that’s the very definition of a failed state
Its not a competition. Just because there’s a lot worse in the world doesn’t change the facts here
The present UK political and economic system is utterly dysfunctional and totally unsustainable, but we are ‘governed’* by utterly corrupt clowns who benefit from keeping it that way
* the word is used figuratively in this instance
shittier ice cream
If you insist on buying the runny plastic stuff from a roadside van. I buy tubs at my local farm shop produced by a company who makes theirs from their own cows, they’re about twelve miles from me. There’s another farm just outside of Lacock which produces their own as well, it’s of equally outstanding quality, it’s just further away from my local shop on the edge of town.
Like many things, there’s quality to be found, if you only look for it. Like beer, whiskey, wine… Which, by the way, France is struggling to sell, and is tearing up large numbers of vineyards as a result.
We also have some amazing food
And an amazing network of food banks to cater for the millions who can’t afford to buy it
Yay us!
Starmer & co don’t, I fear, have any real grasp of the scale of the problems they will inherit
I hope/think they do and this is why he's not making any real policy pledges yet with regards to spending.
For me the problem is that all these massive issues require long term planning and management but politicians of all colours are fixed on the next election cycle . The whole system is broken and and needs rethinking, put someone in charge of the NHS who actually understands what is required to run a health service , doesn't need to be a politician, and not just someone who is the prime ministers mate . What the hell does Grant Shapps know about national defense, what are his qualifications or experience that makes him suitable.
Might be time for a benevolent dictatorship.
The UK remains one of the most developed and comfortable countries on the planet
Are those rose tinted spectacles available on NHS prescription ?
"we have fresh water on tap, good healthcare and good infrastructure"
... where 20%+ of the water piiiises out the pipes before getting to the user. Where that good heathcare is a location based lottery with the worst cancer survival rates in Europe, and where murdering staff go ignored by management
And the infrastructure? FFS. Have you driven on the roads lately?.or taken a high speed train anywhere (unlikely given we have a total of 68 miles of it when places like Turkey have 10x that?)
We're left behind by so called 3rd world countries for that.
We still have fresh water on tap.
We have good healthcare, it’s certainly not third world levels.
Drove to work tonight yes, used the trains yesterday.
None of those suggested I was in a third world country because the train wasn’t high speed.
Neglected by the rich elite landlords who govern us and lined their and their mates pockets. One of my mates came over from Oz last week, left in 2002, and commented how tatty the place looked.
If the UK was a US state, it would be right at the bottom of the heap.
Is Mississippi Really as Poor as Britain?
i think we’ve had delusions of grandeur for some time
I think we’ve had delusions of adequacy for some time.
politecameraaction - you wrote...
The UK is a shambles at the moment, and there is some appalling poverty, but some of you melodramatic people need a nice cup of tea and a sit down. The UK remains one of the most developed and comfortable countries on the planet. Wibbling about failed states just shows you have no idea what a failed state is and haven’t seen how people in poor countries live.
Your post is complete
bollocksnonsense other than 'The UK is a shambles...'
How and when will it become less shambolic?
How close have you been to a failed state? No, didn't think so.I would say that, at best, the UK could be described as a second world country; a former third world country with ever-declining performance, structures, standards, economy and legislative standards.
Assessing whether or not the UK is becoming a third world country depends, in part, on what you're measuring against.
What's your reference point?
Measured against, say, North Somalia the UK would appear to be wealthy, successful, democratic.
That's not saying much, if anything, is it?
The town I live in has 40% of its children living in poverty.60% in my adjacent council ward.I call that third world.
I'll let you know in December, I'm coming back from Sydney for my first visit in 4 years.
looking forward to some percy pigs.
Edit: oh..... and seeing family.
If the UK was a US state, it would be right at the bottom of the heap.
but according to that article britain is outperforming most of europe including germany, so is germany also poorer than mississippi? the author is a former conservative MP, criticises policy to reduce carbon emission because it makes british exports to expensive to be competitive even though, as he states, british exports are increasing outside of the EU and finally, was a founding member of the leave campaign.
he could be right, though.
The UK is a shambles at the moment, and there is some appalling poverty, but some of you melodramatic people need a nice cup of tea and a sit down.
This.
Also, lots of people need to do some reading and apply some more up to date terminology than third-world.
The town I live in has 40% of its children living in poverty.60% in my adjacent council ward.I call that third world.
Poverty is not the same thing the world over.
That level of poverty is totally unacceptable but it doesn't put us on a par with the least developed countries.
I think we're seeing the results of, since 2010, a concerted effort by a group of politicians who are venal, corrupt, self serving and have no other plan, or manifesto other than to horde power, line their pockets and those of their friends and benefactors with obscene amounts of cash while starving the nation of the funds it needs to run its institutions and public services properly. And simultaneously enacting a failed fantasy policy that was never tethered to reality and who's obvious hypocrisies are coming home to roost.
Let that stew for a decade or more, and no country can carry on forever.
Having said that, there'll be a peaceful exchange of power next year to a different govt, and the work to slowly rebuild will start. Which is the tell that we don't live in a failed state. I think what has gone wrong is that we've revealed that if a govt is determined enough to go beyond the norms of behaviours (breaking international law in a limited and specific way...etc etc) that we don't have strong enough public institutions to hold them account while they they're in power, we should probably do something about that.
We're definitely not 3rd World, nowhere near but we are slipping back rapidly from being a developed country to one that needs redeveloping to catch up. Our whole infrastructure needs urgent overhauling, the NHS is in danger of collapsing at the next crisis, our political system is severely broken and law and order are close to no longer fully functioning. All issues that can be solved with the correct political will but unlikely to be a short-term project.
We are a victim of thinking (as a whole) that we are great since around the 80s when other countries have been overtaking us while we stood still. We have lots of catching up to do and it's going to be a hard effort to do that as the target is constantly moving.
I would say that, at best, the UK could be described as a second world country;
Assessing whether or not the UK is becoming a third world country depends, in part, on what you’re measuring against.
What’s your reference point?
Have a look at this: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_Human_Development_Index
We have indeed fallen by that measure but we're still in the top bracket and still 18th in the world.
Things aren't great here right now but lets not get cartied away and in particular, lets not belittle the suffering of those who really are at the bottom of the global pile by suggesting that what we're experiencing is the same.
The UK is still one the of the better countries but what has changed is that it has got worse than it was say 20 years ago. It is now a place with worse services and a higher cost of living (driven primarily by ridiculous house/rent prices using up so much income and very difficult to reverse)
It is simply just a more expensive place to live while also being not such a good place to live.
If the UK was a US state, it would be right at the bottom of the heap.
High school geography tells us why comparing single indicators (GDP p/c in this case) is misleading. If you look at the HDI rankings the UK is above the USA as a whole.
Some people really don’t understand the world if they think 1. That the uk is 3rd world or 2. The Conservative Party has made things as bad as they are and Labour will make everything rosey again.
Take a trip to the USA to see a country much more screwed up than we are and that is the richest country in the world ? People living in wooden shacks, clear racism around jobs that people do, ping out shooting your fellow citizens is almost considered a sport
Humans as a race are greedy we want more. How far you get up that greasy pole depends on where you are lucky enough to be born.
When Labour come in next year (if they have a single policy) they could tax all income ant 60% and solve all our issues. Except that’s not what everyone in this country wants.
The biggest council in the country has just declared itself bankrupt. 20 more are said to be on the brink of doing the same
I’d say that’s the very definition of a failed state
Its a shit state of affairs but it doesn’t indicate a failed state. In a failed state a regional government that was bankrupt would be left to its own devices. That won't happen here.
The biggest council in the country has just declared itself bankrupt. 20 more are said to be on the brink of doing the same
I’d say that’s the very definition of a failed state
Absolute rubbish. By definition there even being a functioning legal process to declare bankruptcy precludes it being a failed state.
"Failed state" is a specific term for the most extreme examples of state collapse where the state has lost control of security (not a rise in an antisocial behaviour, we're talking warlords and guys with guns on pickup trucks), it's borders and basically has no functioning institutions of any kinds. To even seriously suggest the UK is a failed state or close to a failed state is hysterical nonsense. There are very few truly failed states and when it happens it's terrifying.
There are many deep, systemic issues for sure but this kind of hyperbole is just ridiculous.
It sounds like it’s poor Labour management though (just for balance) that has caused the issues in Birmingham
All issues that can be solved with the correct political will but unlikely to be a short-term project.
Yep, it’s all solvable but the people at the top have no intention/desire to sort it out.
It’s fine if your not on the bottom 🙁
"austerity was a terrible mistake"
Very much this, and corruption of the politicians during covid, and that politicians are so focused on ideology they can't/don't see the fact they need to invest to make services work. Or cynically they need to break the systems in order to wholesale change them (local authorities, social care, NHS).
Yes services are far worse now than about 20 years ago, and there could have been improvements then. But I'm with spin and politecameraaction, how poverty is determined here is different to elsewhere, and while not acceptable in our society, it is comparable to other countries. We are definitely not in the so-called 'third world' or developing country bracket for quality of life and services. There are a lot of very rich people and a lot of people struggling to put a roof over their head and feed their kids, but pretty much every society has that. I think we should do more, but that will mean Government spending your hard earned as taxes.
Let them eat cake.
Third world is being overdramatic, by quite some distance.
Its certainly a failing state, failing it's people, failing it's potential, and storing up future problems.
It sounds like it’s poor Labour management though (just for balance) that has caused the issues in Birmingham
LA funding has been cut by 50% under austerity, at a tume when they were expected to deliver more and more services. That's not the councils fault, and previous council failures have been led by both parties.
I think we should do more, but that will mean Government spending your hard earned as taxes.
I think one of the biggest issues we have as a nation is this disconnect between what people want from a government and what they're willing to give up to achieve it. If you ask people what they want from a government they invariably put better public services near or at the top of the list. And yet raising taxes to do that is widely seen as political death.
I think we should do more, but that will mean Government spending your hard earned as taxes.
TBH they could spend more time/manpower and effort investigating the rich tax avoiders.
They also need to invest in the future,some things aren’t a waste of money and need to be done, they can always find the money.
But if your privately educated with private health insurance and and access to private planes it not like any of this affects you.
TBH they could spend more time/manpower and effort investigating the rich tax avoiders.
Whenever raising taxes is mentioned it gets deflected by discussion of the wealthy tax avoiders. I'd very much like to see that group getting nailed but I'm also quite happy to put my hand in my own pocket.
It sounds like it’s poor Labour management though (just for balance) that has caused the issues in Birmingham
Mostly to do with the equal pay case which has been rumbling on for years which plus the spending cuts wiped out their reserves.
Doesnt seem like they have been going in for dodgy investments unlike Thannock and co.
On a broader note whilst the tories since 2010 turbocharged it the problems have been building up for way beyond that. The selling vital assets cheap is going to bite us more and more.
The problem with Tory capitalism is that sooner or later you run out of public assets to sell off cheap to your mates.
I think one of the biggest issues we have as a nation is this disconnect between what people want from a government and what they’re willing to give up to achieve it. If you ask people what they want from a government they invariably put better public services near or at the top of the list. And yet raising taxes to do that is widely seen as political death.
A real Labour opposition has the chance to make the case for more but fairer taxation in order to provide the services people want/need. Pay in to get out. It's not as unpopular as you'd think.
TBH they could spend more time/manpower and effort investigating the rich tax avoiders.
The government that was recently criticised for not releasing HMRCs resourcing requests to the Public Accounts Committee?
Starts at the top and permeates to the bottom, our politicians have become progressively more corrupt and useless, hopefully Johnsom was the low point but im not holding my breath. The morribund attitude though permeates through the whole public sector, people have got used to not achieving or changing anything, its the norm.
My question is where has all the money gone? Tax burden on most of us is higher than ever, VAT is up, council tax is up, tax thresholds have dropped in real terms dramatically.
I think social & health care in its many guises is crippling the country, we have so many economically inactive people, many with additional needs, and not wnough resources to support them to the level people have come to expect (not just money but people willing and suited to caring for others).
I dont really know what the answer is and nor do the politicians which is why they arent acting on it. Managing peoples expectations is going to be highly unpopular, especially after the pipe dream fed to people for years.
Anyway before we can tackle the real challenges we need to make headway against the self imposed screw ups of Brexit and grossly incompetant and self serving government. We need to ditch the distraction politics of small boats, Brexit and what ever other silly 'promises' Sunak made to gain a few headlines.
I do think Labour understand the mountain in front of them, talking to the Labour candidate for my area recently they were under no illusion of the issues. Looks like Starmer had to sort out the internalissues in the Labour party created by Corbyn before he had a hope of doing something country wide. Sounds like most of the clearing hiuse has ben done now.
Third world, get a grip, no where near, were not even close to Russian standards and I'd say were in a much better position than countries like Greece.
How you feel about it may depend on where you live, some UK regions definitely wealthier, than others. In those wealthier areas the retreat of the state may be less obvious whereas it's more clear cut in poorer areas. some things - RAAC for example as an indicator of lack of investment in state education cut over into those wealthier areas. London stands apart from the UK on many indicators - much more wealthy (on average) with public transport investment that many other regions can only dream off (notwithstanding some big pockets of deprivation in London).
Italy may be a parallel - relatively poor south and relatively wealth north. But the level of day to day corruption during Italy's darkest days much much worse than currently we see in UK (yes there's people at top of society hosepiping public funds into their pockets but by and large UK coppers don't ask you for £50 to get off a traffic offence)
Not third-world at all. Just a gradual (well with a few big kicks along the way) slide towards a more American system. Like them, we have the money to look after everyone here, and welcome new arrivals… but there’s political capital and lots of money to be made from “letting people look after their own”… in both senses. When being helped is “scrounging”, and when you can blame the removal of that help on people born elsewhere… you have a way to stop the “big state” making all our lives better and open up endless opportunities for “investment” in making things more expensive and less universal.
It is simply just a more expensive place to live while also being not such a good place to live.
This. I’ve returned recently from Barbados where the political and infrastructure issues are UK x 100. The corrupt government was outvoted and replaced 6 years ago. Changes have started - interrupted by the pandemic and a retraction of tourism monies, but they have worse issues. There are whole townships with crumbling water mains, the B roads are a mess you cannot imagine although the highways have started to be resurfaced, hotel and housing building work is paused because interest on loans are too expensive, bus fares and food prices have doubled, people are driving in cars with missing doors etc etc.
It’s an island with little to no manufacturing export therefore reliant on tourism and imports, is very expensive to live and requires - and now has - a skilled government focused on the people and island itself. Having this discussion in Barbados with a local, his comment to me was “UK is the same as us in 2017, corrupt, self serving government with minimal relevant strategic investment yet unlike us it does not know how to act like an island it’s just become”. He went on to say that while we were influenced and supported by Europe, Barbados is trying the same with the US and Chinese with the latter not being popular yet the public understand they need borrowed investment and cheaper import tariffs to survive.
We are a long way from the 3rd world and have all of the global connections we need to run the country efficiently. We just need a leadership that’s capable and focused to do so.
It’ll probably be another 15 years before the island is back up to 2010 standards, so this indicative 20-25 period is likely the same as we need to sort out our problems. As a more modern country closer to Europe, we do have the ability to sled that up if there’s a will to do so.
The biggest council in the country has just declared itself bankrupt. 20 more are said to be on the brink of doing the same
I’d say that’s the very definition of a failed state
If thats your definition of a failed state you're in for a helluva shock if we ever do become a failed state.
Not third world or failing, no. However it's becoming a poorer country with some (vastly) wealthy areas rather than a wealthy country with a few poor areas.
The short-term "make do and mend" attitude coupled with austerity and ever more obvious corruption form those in charge has really knocked us back down the ladder.
I reckon peak Great Britain recently was 2012.
Out of curiosity, did I miss a recent thread about the UK now being forecast to avoid recession ... ?
The problem is, that as a nation the population as a whole doesn't ever live in another country. This removes the ability to form a sound judgement of what the standard of living is in other countries, out judgements are based on our perceptions and influences.
We realised how bad the UK was when we returned from living in Germany in 2016. It took years to get over how bad the country is and it has continued to decline!
There is reason that we are called 'The Island Monkeys' by the Germans. They laugh at how bad it is here when they do their secondments......
Whenever raising taxes is mentioned it gets deflected by discussion of the wealthy tax avoiders. I’d very much like to see that group getting nailed but I’m also quite happy to put my hand in my own pocket.
TBH been paying taxes for a long time and what is being delivered from it seems to be way worse than it was.
It’s not deflection……
The problem is, that as a nation the population as a whole doesn’t ever live in another country. This removes the ability to form a sound judgement of what the standard of living is in other countries, out judgements are based on our perceptions and influences.
Very much this.
We can sit in the North Atlantic crowing about Two World Wars and One World Cup, shouting Rule Britannia and dreaming about the Empire days but we've stood still since the 70's, in our own little bubble of grandeur while the rest of the world has moved on.
Meanwhile our perceptions of the French and Germans are based on innumerable war films from the 50's onwards plus a bit of Dad's Army, Allo Allo and Fawlty Towers. 🙄
That was in spite of our EU membership, its got a lot worse in the few short years that we've left.
I think leaving the EU was just speeding the decline up a little faster, it’s death by a thousand paper cuts, once they got the people used to ‘austerity’ there was no going back.
There’s only so much underfunding you can get away with.
I think leaving the EU was just speeding the decline up a little faster
Yup. Ultimately it was a symptom and not a cause. Despite the simple minded explanation its telling how many people voted for it believing it would improve things. Obviously a lie but it played into how people were seeing everything decline.
As for 2012 being a peak. That was just a plaster over the top of long term damage.
3rd World?
Nope, nowhere near, not based on my experience of working in the best part of 50 countries around the world.
But.
Folk need to look at the bigger picture, what we are going through though is 'just' the decline of the British Empire, and it's been going on for over 100 years now. Previous Empires across the world went through the same process, some disappeared in just a few years, some decades and others took centuries.
I go back to my Brexit statement, "Brexit wasn't the destination, it was the vehicle". What occurred was that a 'collective' decided that they didn't want the UK to continue on its Western European social democracy journey but to aim for something more like the 'conservatism' that's been prevalent in the US since Reagan - and this is now our journey.
Where it 'ends' I've no idea but I can definitely see the difference in the country & society over my life-time (born mid-60's), and it's not positive for 95% of UK citizens IMO - and neither is the USA for the majority of its citizens either, but still millions vote for a sh1tter life for themselves & their families.
I think a few of you need to go and spend some time in a third world country to get a healthy dose of perspective, there is a reason people risk their lives in a small, unsafe boats to come to the UK.
Yes parts of the country country could run better but comparing it to the third world shows what a tiny little (first world) bubble people live in.
Better position than countries like Greece
From where I’m sitting (Greece, as it ‘appens) it’s hard to agree with that.Apart from the obvious issues like food in the shops, functioning bureaucracy, clean public toilets, there are other advantages to being here, like that MrsJ can get the medical care she needs (but can’t get on the NHS in any sensible timescale) at an affordable price. At home we have to wait months for a dental check up (even on Denplan). Yes, there are problems, but it’s a long way from the place you used to come for a cheap holiday in the 80’s.
As others say, bit dramatic, think the rose tinted spectacles are from the past, as it's always been pretty much the same as it is in terms of standard of living, it's just that we're living longer, in poorer health and the model we follow has had to change to try and suit that, which is costing us more now, cheap credit has also led us to high property prices, personal debt and so on, to allow that global credit machine to keep going year on year.
Councils have always been badly run as well, yes some good ones, but a lot of bad ones, when i worked around a council 25 years ago it was just weird to watch, they were always increasing office jobs, and cutting service jobs, they wanted to outsource as much as they could, without understanding the long term cost and impact of this, inside it was full of nepotism, cronyism and so on, we can try and blame Brexit, the Tories, the rich, but for me it's just people that let it all down, and i dare say we still have the same, or maybe even more people who are just in it for their own and their cronies interests, using buckets of public funding to do it with.
I do believe Brexit and so on have had a huge effect on us, but seeing the same issues in France, Germany, etc means you have to put a bit more focus on the underlying issues, same with political parties, you're just swapping one lot of politicians with their mates, with another.
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In the same way Brits refer to the French as frogs and the Germans as Krauts?
if I could persuade the missus to leave I'd have gone. downward spiral for sure
I do not believe the answer is to raise tax on paye. certainly not lower and mid tiers.
I will be happt to pay more tax when I see inefficiency, corruption and profiteering tackled
just an example, Birmingham has spent hundreds of millions on an IT project. why is stuff like this not a centralised government service provider to LAs? they all do the same job after all. the amount of duplication and waste, coupled with large suppliers taking candy from babies is a reciepe for huge unnecessary cost.
think a few of you need to go and spend some time in a third world country to get a healthy dose of perspective, there is a reason people risk their lives in a small, unsafe boats to come to the UK.
True, but it’s also informative to spend some time in another European country and see how much better things could be in the UK, and why most refugees actually don’t risk their lives to come here and choose to stay elsewhere.
How you feel about it may depend on where you live
Yes, I have relatives in the South (Buckinghamshire) and on a visit to London from Manchester where I live a couple of weeks ago, the wealth disparity is plain to see.
looking forward to some percy pigs.
Edit: oh….. and seeing family.
Good to see priorities!
Poverty is not the same thing the world over.
No it's not but if those children are facing a struggle to have enough food every day then however much income the family unit has is obviously not enough despite it (the income) being many times that of sub-Saharan Africa. We're at the stage where the poor are not struggling to afford nice things, they are struggling to stay fed and housed. It is an embarrassment for such a rich country to engineer itself into this situation.
I believe that "First world Country" has a few requirements, the No1 of which is Socialised healthcare.
the USA is "50 third world countries in a trench coat"*, and if the tories get their way we will be joining them.
Maybe not "third world", but certainly Second
*- suggesting the like of the USA and the UK are "third world" undermines recognition the difficulties of actual "third world countries". the USA and UK are not in need of financial aid and external support, as some countries are.
after the back of covid/lockdown/ukraine war / high inflation/CofL
it seems miserable, the government [voted in by the brexit at all costs voter, who really didnt understand the big picture short term consequences] are continuing to firefight issues that the media are adamant is all their fault,
this latest news scare story has been known about for years, no contingency planning, by successive governments.
the cons austerity is coming back to bite, but isnt it the local authority/ diocese/trust responsible for maintenance. it seems anything goes wrong its rishi sunaks fault at the moment.
cant see that wet lettuce starmer doing alt..
some people are certainly getting rich off the back of public sector / schools etc.
is it me or does £100k for a replacement lightning conductor sound a bit expensive for a school. as quoted by a school trustee on Stephs packlunch yesterday, i remember why i dont watch daytime tv
Its in terminal decline for sure but "Failed State," "Banana Republic" etc aren't labels that apply to the UK.
The biggest problems have been austerity, under (or complete lack of) investment, moderate government and boardroom corruption (contracts-for-mates, siphoning off profits to offshore accounts etc) and the sheer economic stupidity of Brexit but the UK is still by and large a society which respects fairness and the rule of law.
Apart from a once in a generation project of massive public borrowing and spending along the lines of Roosevelt's New Deal, I don't see any other way to stem the decline, but there seems to be no political will for such a project.
Anyone on here who thinks the UK is, or is becoming a third world country is showing themselves up as arrogant and self-entitled, in my opinion. To even consider that there are equivalencies between the like of Sudan, Bangladesh, Zimbabwe etc is crass, and demeans the issues faced by many other countries.
The OP said 'is the UK becoming a third world country' not is it now a third world country.
Personally I think it's a long way to go before it reaches that level. Having said that, there can be no denial that it is a country in decline and the decline seems to be getting worse almost on a daily basis.
You can't 'become' a third world country. That term has a specific definition.
We are backsliding a lot, but we still don't fit the definitions of failed state or third world.