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I would not like to be a No canvaser next year wearing a rossette with a Union Jack on it.
Rosette? Union flag? You should throw in a bowler hat and a LOL banner too.
PS why did Ian Paisley's house smell so bad? Because he would never allow pot pourri under his roof.
btw I think people thinking there's a surge in anti enlgishness are just too sensitive for some harsh scottish humour.
Yet, the Scots are allowed to be offended by people calling them "Jocks"? Evidently the Scots are just being too sensitive 🙄
Why would they wear a bowler hat kona? You may as well say that they would be an English toff because thats what you imply. I am sure the Yes campaign will be wearing rossettes with saltires on. Whats the difference? It is possible for someone to feel Scottish and British.
Seosamh, I at no point said canvasers would fear for their safety, read again if you like.
Why would they wear a bowler hat kona? You may as well say that they would be an English toff because thats what you imply.
I think that was a reference that went whooooooooosh over your bowler hat.
Must have been a ned that spat at my friend also.
I've never heard of someone getting hassle for wearing a poppy before, but at a guess I'd saying it is more likely to be good old traditional sectarian hatred. The same knuckle-draggers that have been known to throw stones at the fire service because the somehow (??) represent the Queen. That's not something new unfortunately.
the majority of those English folk using the terms Jock and Scotch as a reference to Scots do so only when in the company of there own kind and in a sneering manner.
How does that work? If your a Scot how would you hear them?
Did I say exclusive company? No, I didn't.
only when in the company of there own kind
No one who called me 'Jock' has ever meant it in any way other than derogatory.
I think that says a great deal more about you than the word used!
Lol @ JD monkey hanger. Thanks for reminding me about that one.
No one who called me 'Jock' has ever meant it in any way other than derogatory.I think that says a great deal more about you than the word used!
Really Woody ? How is that?
For what it's worth no one I know has ever called me a Jock. 5 of those who did call me Jock attacked my friend and I a few seconds later.
Didn't the Dexy Midnight Runners do a song about someone called 'jock'?
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For what it's worth no one I know has ever called me a Jock. 5 of those who did call me Jock attacked my friend and I a few seconds later.
So what? I bet they called you a few worse things as well.
Perhaps they were threatened by your stereotypical aggressive, drunken behaviour? The Scots I know are not the quietest, best behaved people. 🙂
I have used the term Jock to friends/colleagues but not to strangers. They didn't seem particularly bothered and it was all part of "banter".
I've never randomly attacked anyone either.
They didn't seem particularly bothered and it was all part of "banter".
Maybe they just didn't want to seem bothered, because "it's just a bit of banter" is often shorthand for "I'm trying to wind you up for a laugh".
I've been that single Scottish person in a room full of drunken English people - and I smiled along with the fried Mars bar jokes and laughed at the "banter" because the alternative was that it would get worse.
..... No more "Jock".
From now on our friends in Scotland shall simply be known as "[s]very good sportsmen[/s]" **** instead.
As it seems to be their own preferred term of endearment I'm more than happy to use it 😀
Gordimhor - you've changed from 'no-one', to 'no-one you know' has ever called you a jock! Bit of a difference and I'd be interested in the circumstances of the attack.
Do you get out much?
"I'm trying to wind you up for a laugh".
Yes of course. What's the problem? The clue is in "laugh". Besides it was never a single Scot, quite frequently I was the single Englishman and I was normally receiving Englandshire stuff from them.
Fried Mars Bars are a disgusting idea and I am aware that very few people actually eat them but they were "invented" in Scotland, so why can't someone take p!ss about them?
I've been that single Scottish person in a room full of drunken English people - and I smiled along with the fried Mars bar jokes and laughed at the "banter" because the alternative was that it would get worse
I spent 8 weeks training on a course for work I was the only English person, I called them jocks and they called me wee Geordie. There was banter in my direction from them about being English and a Geordie, I gave it back. Was one of the best few weeks I've had a right good laugh.
Now a polite notice. Please stop using the C word and asterixeses it's classed as swear filter avoidance.
/awaits humorous post of what C word.
If its STW, then must be Cameron surely Drac?
If its STW, then must be Cameron surely Drac?
Well working in the NHS I agree but it's his short name I'm talking about.
Ah I see it was a stereotype they punched and not my nose , what with all violence being a form of communication we should maybe have stayed to carry on the debate, but the 5 of them were so much more talkative than the 2 of us, we decided to leg it.
I think banter between friends is fine, people I don't know have used the term Jock which to me comes over as a bit irritating or patronising. Generally you just ignore it .
[quote=Drac ]
Please stop using the C word and asterixeses it's classed as swear filter avoidance.
but surely
??
Context goes along to way to how a term is deemed offensive.
I've been that single Scottish person in a room full of drunken English people - and I smiled along with the fried Mars bar jokes and laughed at the "banter" because the alternative was that it would get worse.
You poor dear. Did you call the police to report the incident of inciting racial hatred? Do you think that ever goes the other way or is it only the evil English that do such things?
Funny that people angrily claim Scottish nationalism has nothing to do with resentment towards the English then post stuff like this....
I've had numerous bits of 'banter' from Scots about being English, most of it friendly, but not always. Don't think I've ever used the term Jock though - just seems a bit of a crass word.
Is it Racism?
I think it does come down to context and intent, how it's used and what sort of reaction the user of the term is looking to get (if any)...
Yeah OK it can just be a bit of banter. When people discover I hail from the South West you get the occasional use of the term "Carrot Cruncher", fair enough, it's a poor fit but I could live with the term being used in jest for a day or so perhaps....
But if somebody is still dwelling on where I grew up, and related stereotypes, the next day, a week, a month later, then yeah I'd be increasingly annoyed by it, and it only serves to demonstrate just how "small" that persons world view is...
TBH "Jock" not a term I've ever used with any of my Scottish co-workers or friends, if anything I find that I tend to ignore most peoples "point of origin", however obvious or not it might be, unless conversations drift round to the topic.
The thing is I don't think there are many places where you can live or work in the UK these days without being at least partly "exposed" to people from other regions, if you are not at least able to remain civil when dealing with someone who has a slightly different accent and background to yourself, then how are you going to manage with someone from another country?
The UK is a pretty "Multicultural" place these days, not being able to function in such an environment is a fundamental problem with someones social skills and ability to integrate...
Context goes along to way to how a term is deemed offensive.
??
Predictable.
But if somebody is still dwelling on where I grew up, and related stereotypes, the next day, a week, a month later, then yeah I'd be increasingly annoyed by it, and it only serves to demonstrate just how "small" that persons world view is...TBH "Jock" not a term I've ever used with any of my Scottish co-workers or friends, if anything I find that I tend to ignore most peoples "point of origin", however obvious or not it might be, unless conversations drift round to the topic.
The thing is I don't think there are many places where you can live or work in the UK these days without being at least partly "exposed" to people from other regions, if you are not at least able to remain civil when dealing with someone who has a slightly different accent and background to yourself, then how are you going to manage with someone from another country?
The UK is a pretty "Multicultural" place these days, not being able to function in such an environment is a fundamental problem with someones social skills and ability to integrate...
Are you serious? You are Clare Barker and I claim my £5!
[quote=Drac ]
Context goes along to way to how a term is deemed offensive.
??
[s]Predictable.[/s]Indefensible
FTFY
You bored Scotroutes.
Yes it depends on context, we all have probably called a friends a bunch of ****s when they've played a trick on us, it's not meant offensively. However, the word is still a swear word unlike Jock, a swear word which is on the swear filter so using characters to get around it is classed as swear filter avoidance which breaks the STW forum rules.
Of course you knew that.
Nationalists have used false propaganda to fool people into a resentment of the UK that I believe stops just short of Union Jack flag burning. As I already stated, I would not like to be a No canvaser next year wearing a rossette with a Union Jack on it.
I am concerned to the point where candidates for a No vote will not be safe campaigning in many areas next year.
I have read the above again and it still look like you are suggesting people who are campaigning for the Union are in danger of attack. I am still also waiting for you to provide evidence of this nationalist campaign that stops just short of flag burning(your words again)as others have asked you for.
Only one side is focusing on positives and it isn't the [s]bitter together[/s] unionists. Why don't you and our other colonial masters tell us why we would be better off with you,instead of as a free country. We have had 18 months of England redrawing maritime boundaries,and refusing to discuss any terms of indy, while all the time belittling the very idea of independence and warning us that we would be living in holes in the ground and eating our young. The SNP produced their blueprint yesterday,where is the Westminster counterpart? what exactly are the reasons that should convince us to stay? For 300 years we have had a government that has been overwhelmingly unrepresentative of the Scottish electorate,post devo we get a chance to start changing things,deal with it.
It is a fact that the Westminster scaremongering campaign will win (unlike last time when a majority voted yes) However please don't think the issue will go away. It will be close enough to raise the head of devo max, which Westminster is terrified of; the one clever move Cameron made was forcing yes or no and avoiding more devolved powers.
Wee point from a History and Modern Studies teacher; after the last vote, the Government made such cuts to funding in Scotland that the Sec State for Scotland had to go begging as the budget would not have been enough to keep the lights on. When the no vote wins,the backlash will start from Westminster.
BTW; Could Winston Dog please come up here and campaign for the union? May help to make up the minds of some of the undecided.
Sorry winston,
How have I offended you exactly?
Of course you knew that.
I didn't!
I thought that the intent was a decider on moderation?
I remember it being explained by a moderator that words like "nob" and "cock" were permitted (or at least not wallopped) unless directed as an insult at a contributor.
Of course, I could have imagined this. And the C bomb is quite a harsh word to some.
BTW; Could Winston Dog please come up here and campaign for the union? May help to make up the minds of some of the undecided.
Sorry I think the Scottish people should decide their own fate. Besides wrong thread.
How have I offended you exactly?
You haven't at all. I'm just not sure what World you live in.
I thought that the intent was a decider on moderation?
I remember it being explained by a moderator that words like "nob" and "cock" were permitted (or at least not wallopped) unless directed as an insult at a contributor.
No that would be for being offensive not the using the word itself. As the C word is so harsh it blocked with a few other swear words.
Why don't you and our other colonial masters
Nice stereotyping of English people there. Again - people claim independence has nothing to do with hating the English then rant on about how we're all bastards. 😕
that should convince us to stay? For 300 years we have had a government that has been overwhelmingly unrepresentative of the Scottish electorate,post devo we get a chance to start changing things,deal with it.
Try living in the north of England. You already get a much better deal than we do.
Woody
1 No one who called me 'Jock' has ever meant it in any way other than derogatory.
2 For what it's worth no one I know has ever called me a Jock
I haven't changed anything.
3 I was a student at the time we didn't have a tv in our flat My friend and I had gone to the halls of residence to watch the football. On the way home afterwards we were attacked out of the blue by 5 guys who had been walking down the street behind us.
4 Yes thanks for asking
Q: Is jock offensive?
A: some people are offended by it, so yes.
5 pages of people trying to justify it and ignoring answers they don't like to a question they asked.
As the user of a term, be it jock, **** or anything else, you don't get to decide if it's offensive or not to he person hearing it. As you've newly discovered that some/most don't like it the decent thing would be to hold tour hands up, admit you didn't realise and not use the term again. Entrenching your position in schoolboy excuses like "banter" and "having a laugh" doesn't reflect well on you at all.
FWIW, I don't have a particular problem with Jock, like others I just use it as shorthand to assume the person who said it is an arse. On the odd occasion abroad when I've been confused for English, on the other hand, I've been properly offended!
Why don't you and our other colonial masters
Aw C'mon duckkers. That's certainly not the case, is it?
Scottish (and Welsh) MPs have more say in how England is run than vice versa what with devolution and all.
I say dissolve the lot. One out, all out.
unknown that's pretty well put some individuals find it offensive, if someone says they don't like it then apologise and stop using it their presence. Others don't find it offensive though so it could be used with them. Personally I never met a Scotsman who has been offended by it.
On the odd occasion abroad when I've been confused for English, on the other hand, I've been properly offended!
Why's that then? Wouldn't be anything to do with some kind of anti-English bigotry would it?
Y'know, i hear/see this term 'English colonialists' being mentioned and it raises a wry smile.
My personal condition is that of all the people i know who have spoken about this only two of them want Scotland to stay in the Union - and they are transposed Scots.
The rest are extremely in favour of Scottish Independence, so far from being colonialists it would seem many English are exactly the opposite when it comes to this subject. In fact, the one way the yes campaign could guarantee a win would be to include English voters in the referendum!
grum - MemberWhy don't you and our other colonial masters
Nice stereotyping of English people there. Again - people claim independence has nothing to do with hating the English then rant on about how we're all bastards.
Scotland was treated as a resource of materials and labour for 300 years. Once heavy industry was finished and the oil had a shelf life, we are allowed the opp to leave.Oh,and show(feel free to quote) where I demonstrate that wanting self determination is a form of hating the English. Especially in the middle of a five page thread started on an abusive term for Scots.
You poor dear. Did you call the police to report the incident of inciting racial hatred?
No. But there's a way of shaking someone's hand while attacking a pressure point at the base of the thumb - do it hard enough and you can actually break their thumb. I didn't go that far.
It's not racist because being Scottish isn't a race. But it is annoying, lazy stereotyping, and a bit intimidating when surrounded by people doing it.
Scotland was treated as a resource of materials and labour for 300 years.
So was the NE, NW, Wales, the Black Country the list goes on.....
Even the vast majority Londoners have been exploited.
It's got nothing to do with being Scottish.
Personally I never met a Scotsman who has been offended by it.
Me neither......... until now!
Must be a lot of sensitive little flowers on STW.
Scotland was treated as a resource of materials and labour for 300 years. Once heavy industry was finished and the oil had a shelf life, we are allowed the opp to leave.Oh,and show(feel free to quote) where I demonstrate that wanting self determination is a form of hating the English. Especially in the middle of a five page thread started on an abusive term for Scots.
I'm not denying all sorts of legitimate grievances the Scottish might have including a pathetic no campaign - but referring to all English people as colonial masters is a bit of a weak and rude stereotype, as most of us have had precisely bugger all to do with it. Never mind that much of what gets blamed on the English was carried out with the full collusion of the Scottish great and good.
It's not racist because being Scottish isn't a race. But it is annoying, lazy stereotyping, and a bit intimidating when surrounded by people doing it.
I would argue it was probably intended in a friendlier/jokier manner than annoying, lazy stereotyping like calling English people 'colonial masters' which seems borne out of genuine bitterness.