£200 000 for a two bed cottage - bargainacious!
This is the cheapest house for sale in ~Edinburgh right now. 2 bed ex council £180 000 in a pretty rough ( but not as bad as it was) part of the city
https://espc.com/property/50-peacocktail-close-newcraighall-edinburgh-eh15-3qs/36275797?sid=681334
However what I do see are – a lot of elderly people still living in their family homes (often with 4 bedrooms) on their own. Many because they feel safe and have decent neighbours and a good support network around them. So I don’t know what the answer if for this.
In a word or two, stamp duty, inheritance tax* & bungalows being relatively expensive. In addition to all the issues you raise.
* no one seemed to raise the issue of owners of some more expensive houses getting preferential inheritance tax treatment when the farms issue arose, wonder why that was?
Ah - I only looked on espc
wonder why that is so cheap - never seen anything so cheap in Edinburgh
needs full refurbishment and looks like serious water damage as well
I am very much of the opinion that no agricultural land should be built on ever. Even here in the FoD we have farmers fields being turned into housing estates and industrial wastelands being left empty. Of course the sad state of our agriculture doesn't help.
When we whinge about all the high priced housing I wonder how many of us actually make the problem worse with our silly demands, FFS how the hell does a family of 4 need more than 3 bedrooms (many of us grew up sharing a room) or two bogs and bathrooms. Plain greedy. Of course we are a selfish nation.
Alric. "we" don't own the country. The owners do. That is how it has worked for thousands of years.
I assume that you will be one of those to donate all your property to the nation so as to set an example.
Hmm
However I do think high house prices are predominantly a south east problem
You know that house prices and mortgage rates effect those of us who privately rent too. Not just home owners.
You may want to check up on average rents in and around Manchester. A mate of mine just had his rent doubled by the landlord, so had to move yet further out of town, This is now pretty standard around this neck of the woods. Not London or the south east.. Why? Because they can.
How the **** are you meant to save for a deposit if you’re paying over half your salary in rent every month? Home ownership within Greater Manchester is simply completely out of reach of a huge swathe of the population who will end up paying vastly inflated rents for the rest of their lives
Another problem that needs addressing is second home ownership, especially if it’s a holiday home. I’m not jealous or envious. It seems odd that someone should have 2 homes when there are others who can’t even find one.
Also do up empty properties with the aid of grants.
our own house was a doer upper. It’s the only way we could have afforded it.
the whole housing market rental and buying is engineered to transfer money from the poor to the rich. I have benefited hugely from this and I understand how lucky I am and try not to abuse it.
Property inflation compared to salary is absurd. MY flat cost 2.5 times my salary when bought. Now its 10 times the salary for that job. I rented it for two years before I bought it off the landlord. the market rent for it now is 3 times what it was then but the salary for that job has only gone up 50% ( I have improved it a lot tho)
How anyone starting out now can afford to buy or even rent I just do not know. As a nurse there is no chance to buy in Edinburgh now and I would have to rent a room in a flat not a whole flat
The situation is even worse if you are on benefits. The gap between what you get in benefits and what a flat costs to rent is huge
Solutions? Massive house building programme including council houses that cannot be sold. Rent controls, taxation on profits from rentals. crash the effing housing market.
What is really sick IMO is I could rent out the two flats I own at market rents, and use that income to pay a loan to buy another house - and I would not only have another property paid for by my tenants but would still make a significant income on top of the loan repayments. Thats just wrong. Utterly sickening to live in a society where basic housing is used to reinforce inequality
is engineered to transfer money from the poor to the rich.
It's not engineered, that suggests some sort of deliberate intent, but It is exactly what happens. Inheritance also plays a large part in concentrating wealth within families.
We do need a lot more houses being built, it's lack of supply that has pushed prices for rent and buy well out of kilter with wages, and limits on what people can borrow.
I'm happy enough with right to buy as long as each house soldmis replaced quickly with the proceeds.
I stand by "its engineered" Government policy has been to encourage house price inflation as it keeps the middle classes happy and feeling rich.
Right to buy is always at a huge discount - you cannot rebuild with the proceeds and many of those properties end up in the hands of private landlords letting to folk on benefits at a far higher rent than a council property would be
Having a laff, aren’t you? Check house prices in and around Chippenham
Absolute nonsense... Scarborough
Granted the definition of the south east for this purpose needs to be anywhere within a commuting distance of London, and the south in general is quite expensive. But see the colour coded average price map about half way down the below link, almost all of the red is in a specific cluster in and around London.
There is almost no red whatsoever north of the Watford gap, but who would bet against that being where most of the green belt is built over?
Absolute nonsense. We’re having a few days away in a 2 bed cottage outside Scarborough. Rightmove suggests it’s about £200k. We are both in relatively senior public sector jobs on about average wage, that’s over 3 times our salaries. How the **** are local people meant to afford it?
I've had a quick look on Rightmove and seems to be a good selection of 2-bed terraces in Scarborough for less than £130k. The one below is £125k and looks fine as a starter home to me.
Minimum wage is around £24k now so even a single person on minimum wage, applying a 4.5x multiplier could get a mortgage for £107k. A couple both working should be able to afford that quite easily.
https://www.rightmove.co.uk/properties/154844411
a 4.5 multiplier - completely unaffordable payments on minimum wage
Home ownership within Greater Manchester is simply completely out of reach of a huge swathe of the population who will end up paying vastly inflated rents for the rest of their lives
Not to bore everybody by repeating myself but again, quick look on Rightmove and there are no end of houses in Bolton for less than £140k, many less than £120k.
The problem is that with arbitrary national targets, most of the new houses and the environmental destruction will be in places like Bolton, where it's easier to get big developments through planning. If people aren't willing to move to Bolton from Manchester now, they won't be when the new houses are built either, so it won't solve the problem for those people who for whatever reason can't or won't leave the premium parts of the city.
Your idea of "affordable" is not realistic at all.
If you work in manchester the extra cost of a commute from Bolton would add extra costs that make it - guess what - unnaffordable even if you could scrape together a mortgage
a 4.5 multiplier – completely unaffordable payments on minimum wage
Disagree, minimum wage takes home is about £1.6k - £1.7k
Repayments on a £107k mortgage at 4.5% for 30 years are £542.
That seems quite comfortable to me.
The hardest part would be saving the deposit, so they might have to go for a 95% mortgage.
Most people buy as a couple which would make it much easier.
I am very much of the opinion that no agricultural land should be built on ever.
That's approximately 65% of all land use in the UK, meaning that all new additional housing is more and more squeezed into a smaller area. It's unsustainable.
Your idea of “affordable” is not realistic at all.
If you work in manchester the extra cost of a commute from Bolton would add extra costs that make it – guess what – unnaffordable even if you could scrape together a mortgage
It's what, 10 miles from Bolton to central Manchester? How much is a bus pass? If there isn't a cheap and safe way of travelling those ten miles then that sounds like a problem that should be solved before building more and more houses that aren't really needed?
I do fear that a presumption to allow building is going to lead to a free for all where each case on its own appears to not be impactful but the sum of all schemes will cause harm. The best thing for our housing shortfall would be to try and get away from the "our home is our castle" mentality which means we feel obliged to build vast estates of small detached houses with postage stamp gardens. Low rise but spacious apartment developments would be a far more efficient use of land.
If you work in manchester the extra cost of a commute from Bolton would add extra costs that make it – guess what – unnaffordable even if you could scrape together a mortgage
It’s less than £30 a week for an annual season ticket. This is easily offset by lower housing costs no?
That seems quite comfortable to me.
You forgot insurance, council tax and the extra cost of the commute you want the person to do. Add in those and you have less than a couple of hundred a week to live on. Now add in energy bills as well.
How is someone living paycheck to paycheck supposed to save a deposit? Pay for the costs of buying?
You forgot insurance, council tax and the extra cost of the commute you want the person to do. Add in those and you have less than a couple of hundred a week to live on. Now add in energy bills as well.
How is someone living paycheck to paycheck supposed to save a deposit? Pay for the costs of buying?
They're taking home £1.7k and spending £542 on the mortgage so have £1.1k left for everything else.
You're suggesting that after insurance, council tax and a bus or train ticket they'll only have a couple of hundred left, implying you think insurance, council tax and a bus or train ticket is going to cost £900 per month?
I think that's inaccurate. I'd say it's probably closer to £300 for those things. Energy bills another £120. Water about £30. Repairs and maintenance at say 1% of the house value per year so £100 per month.
What else? They've still got £600 left.
less than a couple of hundred a week
so the cheapest house in a cheap area is just about affordable if you scrimp and accept a long commute.
And you think that shows that the affordability issue is not real.
End buy to let interest only mortgages, introduce rent controls, give renters security of tenure.
Watch the panic as buy to let "investors" realise that they can't build a property empire on the misery of tenants.
@tj I think i'd describe it as fairly comfortably affordable to a single person buying alone while earning the minimum wage, which is a well below average position to be in.
I think what it shows is that building thousands more houses on greenbelt around Bolton, which might have the effect of making those 120k houses slightly cheaper again, does not really solve the problem people want to be solved, namely making houses in more desirable areas less expensive.
I guess if you're keen on your prime real estate remaining prime, you'd only want new houses being built in cheap areas though? There seems to be a lot of that around me, where proposals to build more houses in the more expensive areas are met with vociferous opposition, while proposals to build more in areas where houses are already less expensive get through without problems.
End buy to let interest only mortgages, introduce rent controls, give renters security of tenure.
Watch the panic as buy to let “investors” realise that they can’t build a property empire on the misery of tenants.
Is the right answer - along with ramping up taxation on the income from rentals, a massive building programme of state owned housing at fair rents
We need to crash the housing market.
I think i’d describe it as fairly comfortably affordable to a single person buying alone while earning the minimum wage, which is a well below average position to be in.
Really? I don't think anyone in that position would. They would be living a very marginal and precarious existence
this is also an extreme example of a very cheap house in a very cheap area. Now look at two public servants living in an average or expensive area.
Anyone that thinks buying a house on minimum wage is affordable either hasn't ever tried living on the minimum wage or is just plain delusional. I spent most of my working life on minimum wage (or less) and I'm now fortunate enough to earn a good living. I'm on just under £50k with two young kids and Mrs F working part time.
We need to move to a three bed house in the next couple of years and it simply isn't achievable. I'm saving what I can towards a pension for both of us, building a general safety net and trying to put money aside towards a deposit for a three bed.
If we moved somewhere cheaper, our combined commuting costs would kill any savings made. I cycle to work most days now which makes my working day around 12 hours with the commute. We'll likely end up with me and Mrs F sleeping in the living room. This isn't me complaining. We're better off than a lot of people. House prices are just ****ing nuts to be blunt. We could only afford this house by moving in with Mrs F's parents for a few years and saving every penny.
I've no idea what world some of you on here live in but you really need to understand just how privileged you are.
Minimum wage after tax is £1632
Pension
Electricity
Heating
Transport
Insurance
Food
Phone/Internet
Council Tax (£1348 I think)
Household items/furniture/goods repair/replacement
Household repairs/replacements (windows/doors/roof etc etc)
Kids
Clothes
Probably some other stuff
Then what you have is your accommodation pot.
I feel extremely privileged. And the reason being is that I have always earned a low wage (and at one point had two jobs) but managed to get priorities right. Everything that I own has been worked for and therefore appreciated.
It's the getting the deposit together that is a huge problem for the young ones. They will have to give up nice lifestyles (fancy phones, going out for meals), and live with parents for longer than previous generations. Maybe live in a slightly less desirable area, flat share, get a loan from parents or other family members.
The other problem I see is badly built , mass produced starter homes (bad insulation, shoddy workmanship, tiny gardens where it might not be easy to grow food) Is leasehold still being used (that's huge problem), where home owners can't sell a property or move on due to extortionate maintenance charges?
A load of stats to dig into
the crux is that the cost of houses compared to earnings has risen hugely.
https://www.economicshelp.org/blog/5568/housing/uk-house-price-affordability/
@piemonster - Water rates too and child care costs for some.
@bunnyhop - When did you buy your house? Is it just you or with a partner? Your priorities might not be the same as someone else's. You can't apply what you did, whenever that was, to what other people are looking at now. Houses and living in general costs more now than it used to. Staying with parents longer isn't always an option either. It's never as clear cut as people.make it out to be.
As stated, I earn a decent living and a three bed house is simply out of the question. That's for someone who already owns a property. We might just be able to do it for a house that needs a lot of work. Only issue there is that we'd be mortgaged to the hilt. That's a bad idea as you should only take on affordable debt in my opinion and also leaves nothing to fix up a house.
Updated...
Minimum wage after tax is £1632
Pension
Electricity
Water
Heating
Transport
Insurance
Food
Phone/Internet
Council Tax (£1348 I think)
Household items/furniture/goods repair/replacement
Household repairs/replacements (windows/doors/roof etc etc)
Kids/childcare
Clothes
Probably some other stuff
Then what you have is your accommodation pot.
If I'm being generous I'd say it is possible to do it on minimum wage and exist but not really live. No hobbies, no socialising and no real living going on. Not much of a life just work, home, sleep, bills, repeat until you shuffle off.
Apologies, the thread seems to have been derailed!
It’s the getting the deposit together that is a huge problem for the young ones. They will have to give up nice lifestyles (fancy phones, going out for meals), and live with parents for longer than previous generations. Maybe live in a slightly less desirable area, flat share, get a loan from parents or other family members.
The one I'm seeing more of, is simply opting to not have children.
Not much of a life just work, home, sleep, bills, repeat until you shuffle off.
That too has a cost, but that's a cost in declining mental health and suicide rates.
@bunnyhop – When did you buy your house? Is it just you or with a partner? Your priorities might not be the same as someone else’s. You can’t apply what you did, whenever that was, to what other people are looking at now. Houses and living in general costs more now than it used to. Staying with parents longer isn’t always an option either. It’s never as clear cut as people.make it out to be.
Absolutely it's changed and is very, very difficult. There are no easy answers. I was lucky as my first property (a one bedroom flat that I lived in for 14 yrs) was 'only just' affordable to me. I've done my fair share of living on soup for days on end.
Hubby and I have given a small sum to each young family member as and when they were at a point of saving a deposit for a property and we will continue to do so.
It’s the getting the deposit together that is a huge problem for the young ones. They will have to give up nice lifestyles (fancy phones, going out for meals), and live with parents for longer than previous generations. Maybe live in a slightly less desirable area, flat share, get a loan from parents or other family members
And what if you have a job that is nowhere near your parents? What if no family members are in a position to loan you a deposit?
As for fancy lifestyles, I think young people today get a really bad press. I’m thinking of the graduate I work with. She’s taken a good job in Manchester on our graduate training scheme, which initially isn’t a massive salary, so she also works 2-3 shifts a week at a city centre pub, sometimes until 2am. She’s a proper grafter!
Her parents live in Derby and are in no position to be loaning her money for deposits. She pays a huge amount to live in a shared house in Salford. She has no car, nor ‘fancy’ phone
The prospect of her being able to save a deposit to buy anything within commutable distance of the Manchester office are about the same as the prospect of her being able to fly to the moon.
When I was her age I bought a 2 bedroom flat in a less salubrious part of Manchester, but it was affordable, even on my pretty low salary at the time, and within walking distance of my city centre job
Our generation don’t know we’re bloody born. Young people now have it far far harder than we ever did. Owning their own home is simply an impossible dream.