[Closed] Is the average STWer

WTF is a "little Englander"?

i'm 6ft 2"

Lets not mention the continuous whinging about other people!

are you confusing 'British' with 'STWer'

Yes & no, I find myself more intune with some of Captain Flashes view than yours for instance, however I have never read the mail, dont hold with the BNP & agree with you on dags.

So no flaming from me but probably am pretty much Middle England (unless its rugby when I become Welsh)

I consider myself 'above average' 8)

I think you mean 'typical' rather than average.

Oh you forgot something off your list:

Pedantic and smug.

You forgot the whinging Scotch whinging about being called Scotch.

I forgot the classic moaning about bins being emptied or not as well.

However you learn something everyday - I thought I had bettter check the definitions and got this - I meant the second definition but had never heard of the first and they are rather contradictory.

Little Englander is a term indicating an anti-imperialist political stance dating from the time of the Second Boer War (1899–1901). The term then designated people who were against the British Empire and for "England" to extend no further than the borders of the United Kingdom. For example, Arthur Ponsonby wrote of the Liberal Party leader Sir Henry Campbell-Bannerman's reputation for his opposition to the Boer War: "The impression one got of him from the Press in those days was… that he was an unpatriotic Little Englander".[1]

In modern times, a "Little Englander" is usually applied by the centre and centre-left to those who are regarded as xenophobic and/or overly nationalistic and are often accused of being ignorant and boorish. It is also sometimes applied to those who are against membership of the European Union. English people who mistakenly refer to the whole of the UK or Britain as "England" may also be called "Little Englanders".

Stands to reason doesn't it- largely white, lower middle class, uncertain of their future, and their children's, fearful of having to return to the lifestyle of their parents.

Actually, tj, do you consider yourself an 'Englander'? Or Scotch?

British.

Half of the posters on STW actually work in Indian call centres. This is where they learn northern town names, foibles, syntax etc of their customers.

TJ.. do you find it a little depressing that there are not more people like you out there?

We have a continual vicious hatred of anyone to the left of Attila the Hun

I nominate this as exaggeration of the day. Do I win £5? Mind you, plenty of time left for the STW faithful to rival it. 😆

I think the STW masses are not that right leaning - lt's just that the left leaning members cannot tolerate / accept a political view that differs from theirs if it is slightly to the right.

Have I missed the thread on the BA dispute yet?

maybe it would be fairer to have a go at selfish greedy capitalists who have been giving investment advise recently. A very conservative thing to do

LOL@ Hora

Yeti - out in the real world I know plenty of people with a social conscience and the ability to see beyond the propaganda - there are a few on here as well - they tend to be less vocal.

GJ I probably agree with you on dags.

Bikingcatastrophe - exaggerate? Me - I have explained a million times that I don't exaggerate

There was a thread on the BA dispute a while ago giving the unions an absolute kicking for trying to represent their members ad protect their members interests.

I'm from Bonnybridge, I laugh at you 'Little Earthers'.

TJ just loves a good virtual world political ding dong! Sometimes I honestly think he doesn't believe in half the stuff he states and is merely doing it for the reaction!!

TJ I live in CallmeDaves constituency...... I find it very depressing..... my vote counts for nothing.

I think there's quite a cross section of people on here, but the more reactionary amongst us tend also to be the most angry generally, hense the relatively high proportion of daily mail like rants.

Unlike you, most of the time I just can't be bothered to read or rise to it. Life's too short, and the last thing a cross Little Englander is going to do is have their mind changed by some smug, middle class, wishy-washy, public sector liberal like me. I'd rather talk about the things we've got in common like enjoying riding bikes.

What a shame UKIP and the BNP dont challenge him eh Yeti 😉

I'm from Bonnybridge, I laugh at you 'Little Earthers'.

Poor chap. I'm a Bonnybridge escapee.

Its true TJ. I swore at one callcentre worker and he offered me outside 'with his bombers' 😯

I thought he was calling me a bummer at first but then he repeated 'I will own you with my bombers' 8)

TJ I live in CallmeDaves constituency...... I find it very depressing..... my vote counts for nothing.

Could be worse though. I live in the constituency that Alistair Darling was parachuted into after the previous MP was paid off with a peership.

'What a shame UKIP and the BNP dont challenge him eh Yeti '

Haha.... sadly I think they'd stand more chance against Dave in West Ox than any other party!

Unlike you, most of the time I just can't be bothered to read or rise to it.

I think you'll find that more often than not it's TJ that actually starts it, especially if it involves a chance to get a dig in about the hated tories or an opportunity to stand up for his beloved NuLab. Not that there is anything fundamentally wrong with hating tories, just that I'd like to see a little more hatred of the other right wing parties including NuLab...

TJ, you forgot we don't like lorries or child murderers or car drivers or horse sh1t or crc ...

hora - 😆

yes, i see all of these things in STWrs but on the most part any given individual only conforms to one or two of your stereotypes - anyone who ticks all the boxes should be locked up and have the key thrown away.

Is TJ really Tony Benn amusing himself in his dotage ?

Think i agree with TJ here. I blame the parents. and by that i mean posters who are, or are recently parents.

The stench of shite, lack of sleep, and nappy boxes wedged in bins is clearly too much for them.

I blame the parents

Top answer Bol

Epic steve - I do give labour a hard time when deserved - see my comments over Iraq for example. I am no great fan. It only seems that way compared to the reactionary norm on here and I hate to see them blamed for things that are not their fault.

hate to see them blamed for things that are not their fault.

Fanboy.

Reactionary! Class traitor!

Reactionary! Class traitor!

I actually vote for a party that hasn't (yet) betrayed it's socialist principles. Given I'd now be called middle class then that possibly does mark me out as a class traitor.

SSP? Socialist [s]w@nkers[/s] workers party?

SSP? Socialist w@nkers workers party?

No, no, no. That's the "line your own pockets for doing nothing other than pandering to enough of the idiot masses to get a nice little list seat" party.

I'm talking about a party that has the best interest of my country at heart, not one that just sees Scotland as it's best chance of maintaining control of the UK as a whole (NuLab), or doesn't care about it at all (Tories) or are such utter turncoat scum that no right minded person would ever vote for them (LibDem). Doesn't actually leave that many choices.

Ah - you mean the tartan tories? The SNP. 🙂

They have successfully reinvented themselves as a party of the left. They used to be a party of the right back in the 70s.

Whats your verdict on Salmond as first minister then - I am genuinely interested to know.

The little Englander incarnate

Don't pigeon hole people who don't agree with your viewpoints TJ, if someone isn't a fan of current immigration policy it doesn't make them a racist or a member of the BNP. Has it not occurred to you that some people get very poor value from their local councils?
FFS, your viewpoint is no more correct or important than anyone elses.

Whats your verdict on Salmond as first minister then - I am genuinely interested to know.

The other parties only have their 2nd or even 3rd tier in the Scottish Parliament so he's up against pygmies most of the time and therefore walks all over them. Yes he's overly smug by anyones standards but I don't think anyone can deny he's a competent politician and that means he's streets ahead of anyone else. He makes Gray look a fool at each and every first ministers questions, not that it'd appear to be all that difficult.

NuLab didn't exactly set a high standard for first ministers either, and it now looks like the chap they were grooming for the top (Purcell) isn't likely to make a comeback...

BTW one of my wife's friends is married to a chap who used to be a senior NuLab minister in the Scottish Parliament, but was ousted when Joke McConnell took over as he was on the wrong side of the Brown/Blair divide. The things he tells of Scottish Labour, and the in-fighting in particular, would put anyone off.

Little Englander is a stereotypical description generally used by those who claim to despise stereotyping.

Racism IMHO.

epicsteve - I think he has done rather well - played his limited hand well and got most stuff right bar the Trump golf course thing. The real test will be can he deliver on renewables.

I agree with you about the small folk surrounding him - labour in particular are awful and full of infighting and talentless clowns - they have been made to look very foolish indeed. Its all been sulks and "Yar boo sucks" from labour - contrast with the good work done by Goldie - she has played her very limited hand well and has got some of what she wanted by playing consensus politics and fighting on the issues that count to her.

I think Labour have wreaked their chances in Scotland for a generation - SNP should get a majority next time and Tories will increase seats.

No doubt the SNP have the best talent in Holyrood.

Backhander - forgot your pinch of salt? How is it racist? Lost your sense of humour?

I'd love to know how you can see the little englander comment ass racist. Make that case. Find a definition of racist that it fits.

TJ has the response he wanted AGAIN!!

Its all been sulks and "Yar boo sucks" from labour - contrast with the good work done by Goldie

Goldie is one of the few other half-decent politicians in the parliament and does appear to stick to Tory principles rather than just vote against the SNP at every opportunity.

Labour tie themselves in knots by doing things like voting against the SNP on issues that they themselves supported when in power, and Labour themselves support in the UK parliament (minimum alcohol pricing for example) - it just looks very petty e.g. if they say while I'll say black.

Still better than the LibDems though - the way they were willing to dump their principles for the merest sniff of power indicates what'll probably happen if we get a hung UK parliament.

NO dude, you just can't go around throwing the BNP or racist tag at everyone who's not happy with immigration! That's a real insult!
BTW, I don't think the little englander is racist, well it could be but I just don't care. It was more of a stab at your normal knee-jerk reactions.
BUT;

racism can be described as the belief that a certain race or races portray undesirable characteristics

I just think that you are quite intolerant for someone who thinks he's so tolerant.

Small minded is the term I think of when TJ posts on these sorts of threads. Can't concieve of a point of view other than his own on any issue, or accept that it's perfectly valid to have views that disagree with his own.

Given we're both in roughly the same area I'm looking forward to encountering out on the hills sometime as I'm sure he's much more pleasant in real life.

As someone who states that he despises corruption from any party I'm still waiting on his Glasgow City Council/Stephen Purcell thread...

I'm not sure you could argue that calling someone a little englander is insinuating that everyone from England has undesirable characteristics?

Thanks Steve, you put it better than I did.
Far one bol, but it could be argued that the english are european/british in race, mind you that would make insulting religions and nationalities fair game.

Actually, I'm developing some technoogy which I might test here.
It's called the iWhine and it recycles Daily Mail headlines prefaced by the words "I don't read the Daily Mail but.."
bl00dy poles, coming here raping our food and eating our women i could be a doctor if the nhs didn't keep employing all those iraqi immigrants why do we pay poor people dole money anyway they just spend all that money on tesco value crisps that nick griffen i might not agree with him but he does make a fair point or two tell you what we should privatise all social services and put them in the hands of the banks thn paedos and perverts would pay for the privelege of being locked up and i 'll tell you another thing back in my day ....... zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz where is adamg anyway?

got most stuff right bar the Trump golf course thing

..and the power line thing. massive power lines, straight through some of the most outstanding scenery in Europe. Mind you, giving the poweer companies the option of going underground, if they want to shoulder the extra cost themselves. Yeah right.

And bl00dy free car parking at hospitals. car parks cost money to maintain. the money comes from the care budget. Try parking in a near town centre carhospital car park now. So even more money goes into schemes stopping lazy cheapskates from using free park.

I'm European

I'm generally a wishy-washy liberal but I don't tend to say much on here. Some of the opinions expressed here have alarmed me but I'm sure that some of my personal opinions would enrage other posters. I generally find that TJ says some fairly reasonable things but in such a confrontational way that it doesn't do his opinion any favours. Get him started on the Tories or in particular Thatcher though and it all gets a bit out of hand.

In real life he's still forthright about his views but it's easier to avoid him getting onto those topics that get him going than it is on here. 🙂

..and the power line thing. massive power lines, straight through some of the most outstanding scenery in Europe

Alongside the A9 you mean? Given that some older pylons are getting removed from more scenic parts of the national park then on balance it's probably a positive.

The free parking at hospitals was fantastic IMHO (although Edinburgh doesn't actually have any town centre hospitals now so the issues might be different here).

but it's easier to avoid him getting onto those topics

Does that require violence?

Steve - you do have me wrong - as surely is evident in my analysis of Holyrood? I have no issue with political views that differ from mine that are informed and rational.

I don't need to start the threads like you mention - somonelse usually does and I will happily condemn wrongdoing from any quarter. How did I describe Mandelson the other day? corrupt slimebag of the worst sort IIRC..

I do think there is a common view on here that is very small minded and ignorant - people who complain about poor services from local and central government and also complain they are over taxed and people who spout demonstrably wrong things gleaned from the right wing press as fact as often happens over immigration and over health and safety

As for little Englander being racist - that shows your ignorance of what racism is. Being a little englander is a state of mind - its nothing to do with race or ethnic background and it is not an inherent attribute you can do nothing about, but an attitude that is adopted willingly. I know of asian "little englanders".

Really this thread was intended rather tongue in cheek and to poke a bit of fun and to stimulate some debate. for some of you the lightheartedness was clearly missed - as it often is.

Bigbutslimmer bloke - you get the point exactly

BigButSlimmerBloke - Member

Actually, I'm developing some technoogy which I might test here.
It's called the iWhine and it recycles Daily Mail headlines.............

LOL@TJ

When Perth went toll-free it was a nightmare, people were queing 20-30 minutes to get into the car park, many of whom were then missing appointments. To get round it, the hospital have employed a ticket scheme enforced by (paid) wardens, with no extra money to fund them, so where do their wages come from?

epicsteve - Member
>..and the power line thing. massive power lines, straight through
> some of the most outstanding scenery in Europe
Alongside the A9 you mean? Given that some older pylons are getting removed from more scenic parts of the national park then on balance it's probably a positive.

Wot he said. Drumochter Pass? Outstanding scenery? Have you actually had a look at the net changes??
[img] [/img]

There have been some poor decisions taken by the SNP administration - populist rather han sensible policies such as these mentioned. Not huge things in the scheme of things tho and the pylons one is a comprimise

I do think there is a common view on here that is very small minded and ignorant - people who complain about poor services from local and central government and also complain they are over taxed and people who spout demonstrably wrong things gleaned from the right wing press as fact as often happens over immigration and over health and safety

Thats exactly the point TJ, who are you to say these views are small minded and ignorant? I think you're views on defense are small minded and ignorant but that's my opinion.
As often as not, the left wing press is just as bad.

I do think there is a common view on here that is very small minded and ignorant - people who complain about poor services from local and central government and also complain they are over taxed and people who spout demonstrably wrong things gleaned from the right wing press as fact as often happens over immigration and over health and safety

Like most people I accept that I need to pay taxes but what makes the levels that we pay (well over half my income goes on taxes of one kind or another) difficult to swallow is the level of waste and inefficiency in public services. I've spent a significant proportion of my career working in the public sector (including being employed in the military, local government and central government) so I'm not uninformed on those things.

Immigration gets just as badly spun by the left-wing press (including the BBC) as it does by the right, which is a shame because it's an issue that needs tackled in one way or another.

You also missed out "political party apologists" on your list as well - there are certainly people on here (including yourself) that can see their own brand of politician scum do little wrong, while jumping on every little point about the others. The best example I can think of recently was your highlighting of the non-dom funding of the Tory party while ignoring the, at least as bad, situation with NuLab (although given the situation with Unite I can understand why a NuLab apologist might not want any focus on their funding at present). Most of the voting public (including me) couldn't care less if the parties are funded by non-doms or not, but we do care about bigger corruption issues such as the alleged head of one of our biggest councils having his "lifestyle habits" funded by organised crime in return for favours and contracts...

Backhander - when they are demonstrably wrong. Such things as Immigrants get benefits and jump the housing queue - factually wrong. Such things as 'elf and safety stops kids from playing conkers - that was a spoof picked up by the tory press and thus factually wrong.

Ok steve - I'll take that point up. Please don't call me a nulab apologist as I am not. I have little time for the newlabour position

The difference with the non dom thing was the deceit - Ashcroft clearly deceived people - more revelations today about it, Paul did not.

There is not an equivalence - I was not complaining about the non dom funding but the deceit from Ashcroft and pointing out the Hypocrisy that what Ashcroft was doing was against Tory policy

I do agree it was petty point scoring tho - just trying to give some balance to the Cameron fanboys

I can't help but notice that all TJ does is try and get a rise out of people on here. So, if we all ignore him will he just go away?

Kenneth - I try to do more than [i]just [/i]that.

TJ - what you did is what you always do i.e. anti-Tory points scoring, at the same time as ignoring equivalent/worse issues with a party you clearly have sympathies for.

Is it ok if I call you a NuLab "fanboy" then, as clearly that's a term you find acceptable.

You certainly come over as blinkered (public sector can do no wrong), ill-informed (as on the helmet thing) and intolerant/biased/bigoted (as on this thread).

OK steve - this needs to be settled over a pint really.

Blinkered - you will find on the bins thread for example I think it was critical of councils for being inertia ridden and overly bureaucratic, on helmets I am far better informed than most folk have read extensively as much research as I can find on it over decades - intolerant I will accept in part - bigoted is insulting bias depends upon your viewpoint

I'll accept provocative and argumentative tho.

how many scot's were you referring to with the little englander thing TJ? Why not have a dig at just those whinging. You knew the englander thing would get a rise. Especially from a deserter.

OK steve - this needs to be settled over a pint really.

More likely that we'll have a chat up in the Pentlands sometime. I'm sure we must have passed each other loads of times up there. I think I've a spare set of bombers I can pack just in case... 😉

For the record, I don't necessarily disagree that there are some "little englanders" on here, nor do I find the term offensive probably as I don't believe I fit into the typecast.
My issue was that TJ seems to regard his opinion as the only one valid and that everyone who disagrees is stupid/ignorant.

Backhander - thats the nature of internet debate - it all appears black and white - as I have said I have no problem with rational and informed views that I don't agree with - its the ignorant ones that I find hard to take - those that believe that 'elf and safety made kids wear safety glasses to play conkers and that sort of thing.

Informed opinions that have some factual or logical basis I have no issue with even if I disagree with the conclusions

I'll accept provocative and argumentative tho.

How about arrogant, condescending and patronising too ? 🙄

I do try not to be woody but I am aware I can appear like that in print

that believe that 'elf and safety

Health and safety did probably cause a death recently however - when a senior fire brigade officer used health and safety guidelines to prevent a women being rescued by his team (who were trained on the equipment and happy that they would have been able to carry out the rescue, but were only allowed to use it in circumstances where there own safety was threatened), who instead had to wait 6 hours for mountain rescue and subsequently died.

Worst of all he stated that he regarded the rescue as successful...

Now the extra 6-hours wait might not have been a contributing factor to her death, but common sense dictates she must have stood a better chance if rescued early and transferred to hospital.

I do try not to be woody but I am aware I can appear like that in print

I'm surprised at the folk on here that take exception to TJs opinions. Surely the entire point of a forum is to debate, to argue, to question, so I dont get the 'ignore him and he'll go away' lot-aside from maybe you dont like thinking about things too much?
FWIW, more than so much Little-Englander, I think there's a fair few STWers who seem to be part of the self-congratulatory middle-class -y'know "I've worked damned, damned hard to get where I am!, and no bloody lefty is going to take any part of my richly deserved lifestyle away from me!"
Most of these lot only happen to live in England.