Can everyone claiming obesity not to be a disease please edit there posts to indicate which peer-reviewed sources they are using to make their statements?
Obesity is a disease resulting from between genetic and environmental factors
http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S1550413112004986
phil.w - MemberCondition is not necessarily disease.
Someone helpfully posted the definition earlier, but here's another... I think a lot of people are working on an assumption that a disease has to have some medical cause, like an infection or genetics or similiar.
"a disorder of structure or function in a human, animal, or plant, especially one that produces specific symptoms or that affects a specific location and is not simply a direct result of physical injury
a particular quality or disposition regarded as adversely affecting a person or group of people
Origin:
Middle English (in the sense 'lack of ease; inconvenience'): from Old French desaise 'lack of ease', from des- (expressing reversal) + aise 'ease'"
[i]High fructose corn syrup should be made illegal, it's the devil's food and is becoming ubiquitous.
Fizzy drinks, whether made with high-fructose corn syrup or artificial sweeteners should also be made illegal, they are nothing but utterly unhealthy. [/i]
I agree and I've noticed lately the increase of the inclusion in ingredients lists of [i][b]Glucose fructose syrup[/b][/i] which, for example, is listed on the packet of mini Jaffa cakes on the desk next to me.
artificial sweeteners should also be made illegal
What's wrong with artificial sweeteners? They're some of the most tested foodstuffs in history. They offend those that read the Guardian and make things taste sweet without loading them full of sugar. Win/win.
If you ban artificial sweeteners then more people will consume sugar. It's a bit like banning airbags because it winds a few people when they go off.
Does every post you make have a pop at Guardian lefties?
The last few threads I have been on you are doing the same meme
I dont like sweeteners FWIW as at least sugar is natural so i try to avoid - that said I dont do much sugar either
It just means some people have to try harder in some areas and other people try hard in other areas. Some things we just have to accept and deal with or else we just become a victim of our own circumstances.
Absolutely.
If you ban artificial sweeteners then more people will consume sugar.
Hmm.. maybe, maybe not. It could be that drinking sugar free stuff all day in the belief that it's not bad for you conditions your brain and pallette to seek out sweetness all the time, which would clearly have bad consequences.
You adapt to sweetness just as you adapt to lots of salt, you start considering it normal.
[i]Can everyone claiming obesity not to be a disease please edit there posts to indicate which peer-reviewed sources they are using to make their statements? [/i]
Ah, that utopian world where the field of research is a fair, open and level field. I bet theres more funding [cough]GSK[/cough] provided to prove obesity [b]is[/b] a disease than the opposite. But hey-ho, that's just another problem with this particular ball of string.
If obesity is a disease, what's metabolic syndrome.
I'm off.
Oh and don't think that being classified as a diesease is going to make any difference to drug companies. They've been trying to make thin pills for decades.
I'm back !
[i]Oh and don't think that being classified as a diesease is going to make any difference to drug companies. They've been trying to make thin pills for decades. [/i]
Grips, you're way smarter than that and we know it......
😐
EDIT.
Getting your thin pill onto the buying list of NICE or the FDA is a gravy train too good for any company to resist.
As others have said, obesity is the end result not a disease in itself.
An under active thyroid is the disease, obesity is the result.
Depression is the disease, over eating/comfort eating the result.
etc etc....
Medical causes for obesity are few and far between, most people simply eat too much and move too little.
Ah, that utopian world where the field of research is a fair, open and level field
I have concluded from extensive research that it is easier to make snidey comments than provide scientific evidence or data.
Ah, that utopian world where the field of research is a fair, open and level field. I bet theres more funding [cough]GSK[/cough] provided to prove obesity is a disease than the opposite. But hey-ho, that's just another problem with this particular ball of string.
Didn't you know all double blind placebo controlled studies are foolproof? This is science we are talking about! Fact!
*Anyone who actually believes this is living in Lala land.
Does every post you make have a pop at Guardian lefties?
Nope, less than 1% of my posts at a guess.
at least sugar is natural
Some of them are, some of them not.
It could be that drinking sugar free stuff all day in the belief that it's not bad for you conditions your brain and pallette to seek out sweetness all the time, which would clearly have bad consequences.
Definitely an issue worth looking at! Then you enter a whole thing of weaning yourself off anythign sweet and treating them like nicotine patches. Or if they're unharmful, cheap and plentiful, then where's the harm?
I eat very little sugar but quite a lot of artificial sweeteners. Extremely happy with my body composition so not complaining. On balance though I wish I didn't drink so much asparthame - given the choice...
[i]I have concluded from extensive research that it is easier to make snidey comments [/i]
Yeap, some have turned it almost into an art, in between bans, that is.
😉
I've no big axe to grind (and don't have full text access to that paper) but it seems to imply that these effects are seen after the commencement of a high fat high carbohydrate diet (not clear what the accompanying calorific load was - boo for the abstract).bigrich - Member
Can everyone claiming obesity not to be a disease please edit there posts to indicate which peer-reviewed sources they are using to make their statements?
Obesity is a disease resulting from between genetic and environmental factors
> http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S1550413112004986
br />
Po
Broadly, that is the general aspect that many of those you're arguing against feel is the modifiable factor. I imagine everyone is agreed that some individuals put on weight more easily than others
See, I'd call it a syndrome but then my credentials in the field are questionable ( 😳 )
[i]On balance though I wish I didn't drink so much asparthame[/i]
on balance the world might be a skinnier place if more people did
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on balance the world might be a skinnier place if more people did
I'm not so sure. I see a lot of fat people drinking diet coke. There could be something interesting in that.. maybe not.
With all due respect, as I know you've bad huge problems but why on earth do you have to self-medicate
Hypothyroidism is a lot easier to measure than it is to treat. Some cases are treatable with drug A, whilst other cases will respond to a combination of drugs B and C. It can also take a long time to find a treatment that works. We are talking about a chronic condition that requires regular monitoring for the rest of your life.
I think what c_g is alluding to is that some doctors do not have the time or inclination to properly address thyroid conditions, and so just look up the "Dummy's Guide To Thyroid Conditions" for instructions.
I've seen the figure of 2% of the population having a thyroid disorder. Many people are fine with the right meds. I have an uncommon type and self-medicate with drugs I buy from outside the UK. Despite a family history, I was not listened to by GPs.
I know you've been cagey about it in the past c-g, but I really would be interred to know the name of the drug you are having to buy, as t4 and t3 are both available on the NHS.
DrP
Dr p. forgive me but are you a real doctor?
If so. Any opinions on the herbalife products?
The reason I ask is that they are not available through retail outlets. Only distributors. Reminds me of the way Avon do things.
Cheers
Gary
I think what c_g is alluding to is that some doctors do not have the time or inclination to properly address thyroid conditions, and so just look up the "Dummy's Guide To Thyroid Conditions" for instructions.
Yes why waste all those years of study when they can just google for answers..the internet is always right etc.
Dr P is a real doctor.
solo, do you know what 'peer review' means? and first hand, not some bullshit internet man in pub version?
Cheers junkyard
Sounded like he was from his post but thought it safer to ask anyway so as not to offend.
My 2p's worth, I think we all have addictive personalities when it comes to eating / not eating.
Some go down the route of eating too much, and once your on that slope its a slippery one, some go down the route only eating certain carrots whilst standing on one leg (because thats the healthy thing to do)
The reality is probably some where in between, but in STW you have to be the one eating the carrot whilst standing on one leg (Im not convinced thats any better for you in the long run!)
Surely if people have medical reason for being over weight (ie Thyroid) then once diagnosed and treated the weight comes off?? Certainly thats what happened in my Fathers case.
Its all in the mind..
[i]some have perfect skin and other go bald early.[/i]
Yes! What's really unfair is if you're slim and attractive like me, *then* all your hair falls out. Is god having a laugh? I could be cavorting with supermodels if it was down to my physique but then he makes me go slaphead and gives me eyes so crap I need some telescopes to see across the room.
I tell you what he's getting a ruddy good punch in the chuff when I see him.
[i]solo, do you know what 'peer review' means? and first hand, not some bullshit internet man in pub version? [/i]
Firstly, calm down.
Secondly, ask yourself if your time might be better spent proving me right, rather than trying to hassle me. After all, any proof you can find, that stands up to your personal scrutiny, will serve you better than anything you'll get from me.
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Yes why waste all those years of study when they can just google for answers..the internet is always right etc.
Junkyard, before this digresses too much, I'm speaking from personal experience. At the practice I attend, only one of the GPs who I have seen for my hypothyroidism has ever done anything other than throw more of the generic treatment at me.
[url= http://rt.com/usa/obesity-homeless-study-rise-025/ ]One in three homeless people in Boston are clinically obese[/url]
Thought I'd throw that one out there for the wealthy/not wealthy protagonists.
Firstly, calm down.
he asked a question what makes you think he is not calm?
You do seem to get somewhat agitated on diet threads ..do any foods have a calming effect?
SLATFATF
There's a lot more to artificial sweeteners than simply tasting sweet without the calories of sugar. There is growing evidence that artificial sweeteners can cause craving for real sugar.
Also, next time you look at the ingredients on full sugar fizzy drinks, note that a lot of them use 'glucose-fructose syrup' which has other names, including 'modified corn syrup'. Unlike glucose, it is not a natural sugar and again, there is a growing body of evidence that it is partly responsible for causing obesity.
Also, aside from the weight issue, certain fizzy drinks (eg, diet coke) are associated with increased risk of osteoporosis. And they are hellish bad for your teeth!
I see a lot of fat people drinking diet coke.
+1 to Vickypea. There is a strong argument that diet coke still conditions your brain to want sweet things. Evidence that consumption leads to weight gain is patchy, but most diet diary type studies produce weak results.
Continuing my crusade against glucose-fructose syrup....
It's used as a cheap sweetener in loads of foods, much like corn starch is used as a cheap bulking agent. They tend to be in cheaper foods, so people who don't have a lot of money are potentially more exposed to them.
At best, they have no nutritional value, at worst they may do harm.
I see a lot of fat people drinking diet coke. There could be something interesting in that.. maybe not.
Keep up molly. Diet coke dissolves calories. Everyone know that, silly! Which is why this capacity is so often utlised for washing down all-you-can-eat lunchtime Pizza Hut binges and Supersized Big Mac Meals
Its how I maintain my rippling torso, despite my pie intake. like so....
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Binners.
I thought you weren't allowed to post pictures of yourself, and cavorting with a soft drink too !
😯
Anyway, forget the obese. Wont anyone think of the share holders ?
The problem is that school's have gone soft and stopped bullying.
Loads less fat kids when you could pick on them, and now they've grown up thinking it's acceptable to be fat, bred, and encouraged their kids to be porkers.
It's not acceptable to get cancer from smoking, liver disease from drinking, so why is pointing out pie-itis against their human rights?
Probably PC gone mad.
[u]One in three homeless people in Boston are clinically obese[/u]Thought I'd throw that one out there for the wealthy/not wealthy protagonists.
Fast food is dirt cheap (in the US), and the sugar content very quickly makes you feel good (sugar high?). I can see the appeal, if you've been begging on the streets for hours.
It's not like the hobos have a full kitchen at their disposal to cook fresh meals?
Binners - is that a tattoo of a young Judy Garland on your bicep?
Thought I'd throw that one out there for the wealthy/not wealthy protagonists.
It's all relative. A homeless American is wealthy compared to much of the world's population.
Also, next time you look at the ingredients on full sugar fizzy drinks, note that a lot of them use 'glucose-fructose syrup'
Mostly in the US I think. There almost all 'soda' is made with HFCC, which tastes a bit yucky unless you drink it in a big cup with loads of ice, where it's actually pretty refreshing. That's why Diet Coke etc are so popular for home drinking from cans, because it tastes sweeter. They make some kind of retro Pepsi and another lemonadey thing with real sugar and this is marketed as a big deal.
There's a political background to this too - the US used to get a lot of sugar from Cuba, but they got cut off with the revolution. The corn farmers association is an enormously powerful lobby group. And guess what - sugar has import taxes stuck on it, to make corn syrup look cheap!
hmmmm, wonder if US citizen could sue their favored ( ) fast food outlet for making them ill
A 14 year old girl in the USA has just begun to sue the big 3 manufacturers if high fructose corn syrup for $5,000,000 because she developed T2 diabetes.
[i] I see a lot of fat people drinking diet coke[/i]
play the game grips, you can't have it both ways, you go from people are individual and respond differently to food, or you make generalisations like that one.
Make your mind up.
HFCC has been shown to make rats fat, alterning the amount of food which they eat:
[url= http://www.princeton.edu/main/news/archive/S26/91/22K07/ ]Princeton Uni[/url]
Molgrips- I also thought it was mostly in the US, but was shocked to see it listed on the can of a drink here in the UK recently. I'm going to have a snoop at a few labels when I'm next in the supermarket 🙂
