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CaptainFlashheart - Member
> http://www.thedailymash.co.uk/politics/politics-headlines/man-sure-workmates-will-vote-labour-after-saying-theyre-scum-otherwise-20170606128892
you see shy toryism is now a meme
To which Boris will reply 'Careful sunshine, or we abolish the licence fee'.
Guess the content of the angry letter i fired off to the BBC this morning , as to why i'll be cancelling my licence fee and disabling live broadcast equipment here...
I can think of a way to free up more time.
Me too, but don't hold your breath because the one single Bennite policy Labour *will* be able to deliver is Brexit.
You assume that all governments wish to treat all their citizens in a reasonable manner.
No, but I assume they all want to get elected, and regardless of party that always involves spending.
Have you given the same level of scrutiny to the Tories plans?
I see no reason not to. If you provide some examples of extravagant Tory promises I'll check them out. They've promised to fix Social Care and I can see how that's feasable. When Cameron promised 13.7bn at the last minute in 2015 I called that out. (Linky above.)
Sure corporation tax and income tax might not be totally inelastic
Best to avoid making promises as if they were.
26% is hardly a particularly high rate, even Maggie seemed happy with that.
26pc 30 years ago was fine. In recent years everyone's dropped their rates. We dropped ours to 19pc (IIRC) at the same time Spain, Japan and numerous other nations did. (Well, we rather cleverly announced it and then left it 1 year to cream off a bit more revenue on the assumption that nobody would bother to relocate to save themselves 1 year's worth of 7pc) All those countries didn't do that for a laugh, they did it because they felt they had to to compete. FWIW I find it someone staggering that people think 26pc is the sweet spot on the graph in 2017 because it was the sweet spot on the graph 30 years ago. Is that really Labour's logic?
some in-depth analysis of the polls here
The thing is though - pollsters also know all those things. So they should have taken them into account. Shy Tory syndrome has been known about for years and is in most of the poll adjustments afaik.
The thing is though - pollsters also know all those things. So they should have taken them into account. Shy Tory syndrome has been known about for years and is in most of the poll adjustments afaik.
IIRC the yougov poll tries to account for it, the others don't try to.
The yougov model also models seats which the others don't do, I think.
The yougov model also models seats which the others don't do, I think.
Yes, but the yougov admits the seat modelling is pretty much fiction.
They've promised to fix Social Care and I can see how that's feasable
Okay - how is it feasible, what calculations have you done?
What is the total amount required to fix social care?
What is the top cap for the dementia tax that is funding it and does that add up?
What do they mean exactly by fixing it?
What do they mean exactly by fixing it?
Why, euthenasia, silly!
It's the tory way!
We know of these 60 people from their friends and/or family contacting this website. The UK figure is nearer 4,000 but could be as high as 81,140 welfare reform deaths
Okay - how is it feasible, what calculations have you done?What is the total amount required to fix social care?
What is the top cap for the dementia tax that is funding it and does that add up?
What do they mean exactly by fixing it?
Dunno.
Dunno.
Funding it properly.
As I see it the flaw is that it's really easy to avoid. The risk is that vast numbers of people just avoid it. So it could fall flat on it's face.
My guess is that won't happen, because what I've seen in my own family is people just assume they'll live healthily forever. My parents inhereted nothing because their parents needed residential care and in spite of being well aware of the situation they're not showing any signs of planning ahead for the time they need residential care. I'd expect social care at home to be the same, for whatever reason people just don't plan to avoid it.
...but even so, I trust this scheme more than I trust Labours "We'll fix it along with everything else and you won't have to pay."
In fact, AFAIC the Tory plan for social care is the single best policy in this whole election.
[quote=outofbreath ]26pc 30 years ago was fine. In recent years everyone's dropped their rates.
Remind me again how low Germany and France have dropped their rates?
In fact, AFAIC the Tory plan for social care is the single best policy in this whole election.
Would a proper inheritance tax reform not be fairer on all? I can see major flaws in that policy where care home owners become major BTL landlords when they can't sell their new assets.
In fact, AFAIC the Tory plan for social care is the single best policy in this whole election.
I almost agree
but mays u-turn and cap is stupid- it makes it horribly regressive doesnt it?
those with assets above her cap (ie the richest) will have their assets above it protected, meaning they could some could save millions
those with less than the cap see their inheritance taken away, so the poorest could loose everything theyve worked for their entire lives
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[url= http://anotherangryvoice.blogspot.co.uk/2017/06/why-corporations-will-just-run-away-is.html ]Sauce[/url]
Remind me again how low Germany and France have dropped their rates?
Germany's high. No idea about France. Are you saying the countries who have rates below Germany have miscalculated? How so? If so, why didn't they all just pop them back up when they realized they could squeeze a bit more out?
outofbreath » 26pc 30 years ago was fine. In recent years everyone's dropped their rates.
Graph above, have they dropped their rates lower than the UK? What are those rates?
Who is everyone
ulysse - I personally know one medium sized UK firm that moved HQ specifically for a lower corporation tax rate. All that was required was moving 3 full time posts to the new country and to hold board meetings in that country.
Are you saying that was a one off?
Are you saying that graph proves Corporation tax revenue is prefectly-inelastic?
I personally know one medium sized UK firm that moved HQ specifically for a lower corporation tax rate
Where did they go?
[quote=outofbreath ]Are you saying the countries who have rates below Germany have miscalculated?
I don't think that was what I was saying - why don't we check back in the thread and see who was suggesting our corporation tax rates should be influenced by what other countries are doing...
How so? If so, why didn't they all just pop them back up when they realized they could squeeze a bit more out?
The tories are not dropping corporate tax rates to maximise tax take, but to maximise the take for a small percentage of the population.
ulysse - I personally know one medium sized UK firm that moved HQ specifically for a lower corporation tax rate. All that was required was moving 3 full time posts to the new country and to hold board meetings in that country.Are you saying that was a one off?
Are you saying that graph proves Corporation tax revenue is prefectly-inelastic?
What we need there is international co-operation on preventing companies pretending to be based in a different country for tax reasons, just cutting taxes because of dishonest abuse of tax systems is like legalising murder because it is complicated to investigate.
Who is everyone
Everyone was a bit of ill considered hyperbole on my part but Oxford University Centre for Business Taxation, reckon average rates in the G20 have fallen from 40 per cent in 1990 to 28.7 per cent in 2015. By 2020 they'll be 27.1 per cent.
IIRC we cut ours at the same time as Spain, Japan, Italy and a few others to the smae rate as them (19pc IIRC). (Announced and then enacted after a year in the UK but immediately elsewhere.)
...but if you're arguing corporation tax is inelastic, why stop at 26pc? What's wrong with 90pc.
Where did they go?
I thought Belgium, but I think I was getting Luxembourg and Belgium mixed up, 'cos moving to Belgium for tax reason seems a bit mental.
What we need there is international co-operation on preventing companies pretending to be based in a different country for tax reasons,
That would make sense.
What doesn't make sense is pricing yourself out of the market *before* that co-operation is in place.
The Maybot is being interviewed right now on Sky news in a barn full of tractors. She really does pick her backdrops. It's like she's conducting her campaign from a load of unidentifiable secret locations as if she was on the run. Really doesn't look very good.
Is she looking tired?
[quote=outofbreath ]average rates in the G20 have fallen from 40 per cent in 1990 to 28.7 per cent in 2015. By 2020 they'll be 27.1 per cent.
Gosh - in that context 26% does look a bad idea.
...but if you're arguing corporation tax is inelastic, why stop at 26pc? What's wrong with 90pc.
I wasn't. HTH.
The tories are not dropping corporate tax rates to maximise tax take
Cite.
but to maximise the take for a small percentage of the population.
Corporation tax comes out of the money firms take in from customers. Just like VAT. It may look like the company is paying it, but the cash comes direct from the stuff they sell which is paid for by everyone. ...and companies that sell food aren't exempt from Corporation tax, in the way that food transactions are exempt.
The tories are not dropping corporate tax rates to maximise tax take, but to maximise the take for a small percentage of the population.
What was Spain's motive? What was Japan's motive? What was Italy's motive? What was Luxenbourg's motive?
That isn't my understanding.Corporation tax comes out of the money firms take in from customers. Just like VAT.
You can re-invest, grow, employ, etc without paying any corporation tax.
each country have different motives
If your small and have very little earning potential then grabbing a little bit from lots of extra people works - name plates and accounting - Lux
Spain/Italy - grab some of the big guys with a cheap workforce and incentives like Ireland did
If you have industry and lots going on you should be collecting what you can from business in return for the roads, educated population, healthcare and other services that allow them to make a profit.
each country have different motives
If your small and have very little earning potential then grabbing a little bit from lots of extra people works - name plates and accounting - Lux
Spain/Italy - grab some of the big guys with a cheap workforce and incentives like Ireland did
If you have industry and lots going on you should be collecting what you can from business in return for the roads, educated population, healthcare and other services that allow them to make a profit.
...and Britain's motive is? Weird how every country with a below average Corporation tax is doing it for noble reasons, except Britain who are doing it because we're some kind of pantomime villain harming our own interests for corrupt reasons.
Corporation tax comes out of the money firms take in from customers. Just like VAT.
That isn't my understanding.
So where *do* firms get the cash to pay corporation tax?
Should be the latter, well balanced economy, don't need to draw in the likes of Apple to send all profits through at a discount, just need to take whats due. Same place as germany really
fortunately we are attractive enough as a country to keep business, of course thatd require us staying in the single market/customs union etc
Is she looking tired?
If the best attack line that the momentumites can come up with is from a Dr Who script, then I think we are going to have some outstanding scenes of wailing and gnashing come Friday morning 😀
best get your kleenex ready, I reckon you must have run out searching all those IRA funeral pics.
It was of course a joke, much like the PM and her slogans not policy routine. think she has met somebody who wasn't vetted yet?
I think we are going to have some outstanding scenes of wailing and gnashing come Friday morning
I suspect that will be the outcome regardless, the only difference will be who is wailing
It was of course a joke,
I spy, with my little eye...
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I think we are going to have some outstanding scenes of wailing and gnashing
I presume you missed the bit earlier where most of us rabid lefties said we were expecting May to win? I doubt there are many others who disagree. In fact, pretty much everyone I know is voting labour, and pretty much every one of them I've talked to don't expect labour to win.
She did look tired by the way. Empty in fact. That's her major problem, she has almost no belief in the vacuous rubbish that comes out of her mouth. In fact I'm pretty sure if she went off Crosby's script and unleashed a rant about what she really believes it would probably win her the victory she wants.
If the best attack line that the momentumites can come up with is
its OK ninfan, us lefties have already priced in a tory victory
weve spent plenty of time slating our Strong & Stable 😆 PM its not just her haunted eyes that are amusing us
her reputation is now in tatters and she gets to own brexit, silver linings!
jam bo - MemberI think they are starting to panic and believe they might actually lose this.
How it seems to me is, the rules have changed a bit and they're still not quite believing it. Boris expected to be able to go into that interview and tell a load of lies unchallenged, it didn't even occur to him he could get called out. Those are the rules of the game as he understands them. He's not totally wrong, as proved by the following interview when he did get away with it, but the ground's shifted and it's no wonder they're reeling.
May's creepy warehouse cult meeting is exactly the same thing- her version of the rules say she can do a weird event like that and have it reported faithfully as "May goes to Scotland and everyone loves her". Even though they got ripped apart for it last time, they go ahead and do the exact same stupid thing, because they still think that's how the world is. Labour know if they do something like that they'll get the piss taken, the Tories think it happens to other people.
jam bo - Memberwhen they say 'ill', do they mean locked in a room away from any form of communication?
She was having a friendly one-to-one with Seamus Milne and accidentally kicked herself unconscious then locked herself in a sack.
ransos - MemberTo take Corbyn's performance on Woman's Hour, he reacted by apologising and supplying the correct figures. In contrast to the Maybot, it gives me the sense that he's actually a human being.
I've said this before but when Corbyn or Abbott have a bad interview, it's because they say something wrong. When Boris or May have a bad interview, it's because they say exactly what they want to say. Corbyn can issue an apology or a clarification, May will go on just the same.
Weirdly we react to the former like it's worse- like it's better to say something awful than something daft, or better to be dishonest than to be mistaken.
igm - MemberI hadn't realised May tried to cut the police further but got vetoed by Osbourne of all people.
I hate to have to admit it but Osbourne was often a restraining hand on May. He personally overruled several attacks on student immigration frinstance because he saw the price tag and basically didn't care about anything else. Never thought I'd find a use for him- it makes me wonder what he might have been like in an office more suited to him (kind of like Gove in justice)
I'm not sure whether to laugh or vomit...
[url= https://twitter.com/itvnews/status/872017947585380352 ]Theresa's naughty moment[/url]
Sadly she does come accross as a victim of her dementia tax reminiscing in a care home
Boris expected to be able to go into that interview and tell a load of lies unchallenged, it didn't even occur to him he could get called out
That's because he got away with telling whoppers for so long.
I still like that line about whether he'd be willing to lie down in front of the Heathrow bulldozers, given that he'd been happy enough to lie down the side of a bus.
I hate to have to admit it but Osbourne was often a restraining hand on May.
Osborne, regardless of whether you like his politics, and maybe because of his 'cold' persona was a very shrewd political operator - I think he managed to play both the Tory right and the Lib Dems during the coalition, and apparently unlike Cameron he saw the Brexit referendum backfiring and was against it.