[Closed] Is May about to call an election?

Ooooh.

Record high 2015!

So it wasn't those nasty Labour types who were weak on immigration. 😉

The migration dilemma is that business (the tory's boss) needs migration both as customers and cheap labour.

What needs to be realised is that it isn't millions who need to have their perceptions altered, but quite often it's only a few hundred thousand who can who can make the difference.

Find out who they are & target them.

Totally, but I can't believe anyone working in high level politics in any of the main parties in the UK, US or elsewhere aren't aware of this fact.

Totally, but I can't believe anyone working in high level politics in any of the main parties in the UK, US or elsewhere aren't aware of this fact.

Of course they are aware....they are the ones doing it!

The other point is it's not strictly illegal....but it is highly questionable ethically....

The folks who aren't aware are the electorate...

funnily enough strength and stability isnt historically a Tory trait

http://stumblingandmumbling.typepad.com/stumbling_and_mumbling/2017/05/strong-and-stable.html

[url= http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/theresa-may-fox-hunting-bring-back-ban-repeal-conservative-tories-general-election-rural-vote-a7726506.html ]May likes fox hunting and wants a vote to bring it back.[/url]

Surely cannot be a wise electoral move?

Could she be drumming up investment / donations support from the type of nasty toff who want it back?

I'm not sure molly - bearing in mind the Tories don't need to get anywhere near 50% of the vote and most of the people opposed to fox hunting probably weren't going to vote for them anyway (whilst for a significant proportion of those who might, we still have the "could murder people and still get elected" factor). I have to admit I'm not quite sure how support for Fox hunting breaks down amongst voting demographics, but you have to assume somebody does. Though of course they may have just decided they can get away with anything and it certainly plays to part of their core support.

My reaction to it though was that it seems a good way to spend their time whilst they haven't got anything more important to concentrate on...

Surely cannot be a wise electoral move?

They clearly dont give a shit any more. Its a done deal all sewn up they can say and do what they like.

Why can't we have a sport where a tory is chased and ripped apart by a pack of dogs?

I reckon that would be a vote winner right there, c'mon you other parties, put that in your manifesto.

At a guess - the countryside is pro hunting, towns and cities against it. The countryside however is always going to be Tory, so the current high Tory numbers must therefore come from the towns and cities.

It will turn a fair few people off; question is, enough to make a difference?

Poll reported that Labour gained 8 points after public appearances by Corbyn. And it has been said that this is something (possibly the only thing) he does really well.

Not sure this is over just yet...

Not sure this is over just yet...

unless corbyn can shake at least 30 million hands I think itll be a tall order

hes certainly got more personality than Maybot

Personally I am big supporter of a return of fox hunting. What to do about them in the cities is the real issue.

Tories will not win/lose any seats over this, it will be a free vote anyway. With Labour decimated this will be the best moment to revist. Blair kept deferring the vote again and again, he well knew hunting is important to country areas.

Personally I am big supporter of a return of fox hunting. What to do about them in the cities is the real issue.

Seriously? You think this is about pest control? You cannot be that naieve surely?

It's fine to kill pests where they are a problem, as humanely as possible.

It's NOT fine to organise a big jolly for the sheer pleasure of chasing a terrified animal all over the countryside until it's finally caught and torn to bits by dogs.

You must understand there's a difference between those two things.

Tory supporter and hunt regularly but despise fox hunting and the whole ethos around it.
Many people I know who are Tory supporting country dwellers will be turned off by this and is a complete gaff if she tries to push this through.

May likes fox hunting and wants a vote to bring it back.

Surely cannot be a wise electoral move?

What, you think that the types of people who give enough of a toss about banning fox hunting to let it dictate their voting intentions were ever Tory voters?

It's NOT fine to organise a big jolly for the sheer pleasure of chasing a terrified animal all over the countryside until it's finally caught and torn to bits by dogs.

Why not? I want to hear cogent arguments what this is not acceptable, rather than just because you don't like it.

Tory supporter and hunt regularly but despise fox hunting and the whole ethos around it.
Many people I know who are Tory supporting country dwellers will be turned off by this and is a complete gaff if she tries to push this through.

Hunt as in fox hunt but despise the ethos ? Interesting.

May and the Tory leadership are not daft, if they thought this was a vote loser they wouldn't do it.

@molgrips I would have a full on assault / cull of fox numbers including via dog hunting. I have tried to shoot a few myself in years gone by. Horrible animals. Friend just had 8 of his 10 Guinea Fowl killed by a fox. Single break in just killed as many as it could, usual fox behaviour.

Why not? I want to hear cogent arguments what this is not acceptable, rather than just because you don't like it.

Why do you think it is acceptable?

Horrible animals.

Aside from judging animals by human standards, which is stupid - can you not see the difference between shooting something that needs to be culled and tormenting it to death because you enjoy it?

Why do you think it is acceptable?

Probably because lefties don't.

Friend just had 8 of his 10 Guinea Fowl killed by a fox. Single break in just killed as many as it could, usual fox behaviour.

Awww bless. Perhaps he should have provided better security.

Foxes have been in the UK for over 300,000 years. How long have you been here? Perhaps we should set a pack of dogs on you and see how you like it.

usual fox behaviour.

Bloody animals doing what they do. Evil bastards! Someone should tell them to have some bloody consideration for human property rights.

Or your mate could have spent a bit more cash to protect his birds properly.

Or not leave fox food out in the garden all night.

@jambalaya Hunt as in Rough Shoot.

Grew up in SA shooting Jackals on the farm which make foxes look like cuddly toys. When we came back to the UK went out with friends on the local hunt and found it to be completely ineffective against pest control (which foxes are) and was just an equine sport for socialites, wannabe aristocrats and numpty young farmers. Coming from a proper hunting background it was a bit of a culture shock!

Foxes are a nuisance and need culling but saying that fox hunting on horseback is effective is bollocks. Times have changed and I know many landowner who will happily shoot foxes all day long but wont let a hunt anywhere near their farm or estate.
Will say again there will be a backlash from inside the Tory voting block if she goes ahead with this.

Friend just had 8 of his 10 Guinea Fowl killed by a fox. Single break in just killed as many as it could, usual fox behaviour.

Mate of mine runs a chicken farm producing eggs. 15,000 odd free range chickens.

He [i]shoots[/i] foxes on his land. He doesn't employ a few dozen people on horseback to chase a single fox about for hours with a pack of dogs!

Why do you think it is acceptable?

Because we live in a society where we believe in freedom and not banning things just because we don't like them

See buggery, abortion, halal & kosher slaughter and pickled eggs for examples

but saying that fox hunting on horseback is effective is bollocks

Who said that? See the Burns report for details.

usual fox behaviour.

Dunno why but that's just made me lol on the train.

It's quite partridgesque

It's all a distraction anyway, Lynton Crosby? Trying to deflect scrutiny from the Torys and May's personal track record on immigration pledges and the Tory dichotomy of being xenophobic but also wanting a supply of dirt cheap labour...

Actually ninfan, I'm pretty sure buggering foxes is illegal too.

It's all a distraction anyway, Lynton Crosby?

Fair point - it's a dead cat

Because we live in a society where we believe in freedom and not banning things just because we don't like them

I guess that's why we still have cock fighting and bear baiting.

I guess that's why we still have cock fighting and bear baiting.

Only banned because of puritan, then Victorian attitudes to betting

we still have cock fighting

Indeed, mostly on the internet now though. 🙂

Only banned because of [s]Victorian[/s] Regency attitudes to [s]betting[/s] [url= https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cruelty_to_Animals_Act_1835 ]Cruelty to Animals[/url]

FIFY

Because we live in a society where we believe in freedom and not banning things just because we don't like them

No we don't.

Try walking naked down the high street, smoking a joint, with a spaniel licking your balls, and you won't get very far. Believe me.

May looked at all the problems facing the UK and decided that leisure time was the most important, that's why it's a vote loser.

May looked at all the problems facing the UK and decided that leisure time was the most important,

Should have announced some more bank holidays, then!

🙂

Although if she had done that, then the usual suspects would be accusing her of stealing policies off the BNP

The last Ipsos Mori poll showed a huge majority still in favour of banning fox-hunting with dogs. Even a majority in rural areas favour it. Around 80+ IIRC.

So, yeah, best of luck overturning something to which over 80% are opposed.

It's gone for now. Attitudes have changed and some of you have been left behind. The phrase "get over it" comes to mind.

If people want to dress like arseholes and have jolly japes around the countryside on their horses, then there are plenty of ways to do it legally. And if they'd like to daub their children in blood, they'll just have to use some fake stuff. The training staff at Harlequins can point them in the direction of suppliers.

@molgrips I do appreciate the arguments against and the image issues. How about a foot hunt in Yorkshire ?

It will be a free vote so MPs can decide how they wish to vote.

@molgrips I do appreciate the arguments against and the image issues.

Image issues?

Image issues?

Upper class twits prancing round the countryside like dicks. That's actually what they think people are bothered about, because in their heads what they do is perfectly acceptable, so it must obviously be driven by something else other than logic and compassion.

You do realise its a precursor? They're just softening everyone up for the introduction of peasant-hunting?

The red coats, horses and hounds, horns echoing, rampaging through council estates, picking off the Greggs munching inhabitants, carrying off their huge widescreen TV's as trophies, as they burn their benefits books, and sell off their council house to a private landlord fellow MP for twenty quid. Or demolishing them if they're in London, and immediately selling off the land to an offshore hedge fund, with the flats already sold to investors in Dubai.

The streets will run gold, with punctured Stella cans washing over the tracksuits of the dead

Personally I am big supporter of a return of fox hunting. What to do about them in the cities is the real issue.

You really have lost it this time.

As for ninfan, either a troll or a ****. I have my own opinion on that.

Anyway, getting away from things like fox-hunting...

A few dodgy communications from the Tories this week.

Firstly a email signed by Boris Johnson that said "Yesterday a new French president claimed a strong negotiating position on Brexit as a result of his election win."

Macron didn't mention Brexit once in his Louvre speech. I expect "claimed" to be interpreted quite differently retrospectively. But I wonder what BoJo wanted readers to understand by what he said in the begging email for donations.

Tory election leaflets are warning voters that they have a small window of time in which to throw their support behind Mummy and her Brexit stooges "while EU Leaders agree their position..." (I paraphrase there...can't remember the exact words.) Funny that, didn't the Leaders Council agree their stance on April 29th? Oh no voters, what we need is a big majority, because that'll scare the leaders into softening their stance, upon which they're still deciding. 😆

I smell dead cats all over the place.

Because we live in a society where we believe in freedom and not banning things just because we don't like them

Given you're the guy who has trouble differentiating between consensual sexual activity and sexual assault, I'm glad we ban certain things.

Fox hunting was banned because it was wrong 20 years ago - what's changed to warrant bringing it back?

F all as far as I know.

Where's the evidence that it needs brining back?

Show me that & then maybe.....MAYBE....we can have a discussion on it...

Arrogant Tory bollox is what it is!

It will be a free vote so MPs can decide how they wish to vote.

TBH its not a big issue unless you are the sort of person who enjoys that sort of thing and they are still the unspeakable in pursuit of the inedible

What to do about them in the cities is the real issue.

[img] [/img]

You really do live in a dream..

If you support fox hunting then you are the absolute scum of the earth and I genuinely wish you ill. Absolute disgrace. 👿

@deadly Macron made a point of appearing in front of EU flags all through the campaign and came on stage to the EU Anthem "ode to joy"

So far on Fox Hunting I see strongly non-Tory voters remaining strongly non-Tory.

you see strongly non tories mocking the tories for a deeply unpopular policy

The reality is only devout tories actually see this as an issue everyone else opposes it as any survey quickly shows

TBH i bet not even the majority of tory voters support hunting.

TBH i bet not even the majority of tory voters support hunting.

It's even questionable as to whether a majority of their MPs would support it. Anyway, as I said earlier, I couldn't even be sure some of our swivel-eyed Tories support it either - for many of them it's partisan first, animal welfare and the relevant views of the majority of the public second and a chance to wind up "the lefties".

@deadly Macron made a point of appearing in front of EU flags all through the campaign and came on stage to the EU Anthem "ode to joy"

Did he really? Crikey, I missed all that in my tumescence at the neo-fascists being put to the sword. Again.

Anyway, did he claim a strong mandate on Brexit negotiations because of his election win?

Hang on, did May announce this policy pearl [fox-hunting] in a frickin' factory? 😆

Personally I am big supporter of a return of fox hunting. What to do about them in the cities is the real issue.

Blair kept deferring the vote again and again, he well knew hunting is important to country areas.

Well getting dressed up and charging across the landscape on horseback with your mates is important - and I can understand that.
Controlling foxes may be important - but that's less clear.
Personally I'd like to see the hunt back as a spectacle (ok it never went away) but now including an MTB chapter, meanwhile professional gamekeepers stay on top of the fox issue.

We almost ended fox hunting with dogs round here one time when the fox decided to cross a dual carriageway and the dogs decided to follow. I wasn't in the first rank of cars that had to brake but it was interesting watching the huntsmen trying to control the dogs.

Blair kept deferring the vote again and again, he well knew hunting was a great distraction, allowing him to do all sorts of stuff and then just yelling 'class war! Look at the nasty toffs!' and getting all of the people who didn't like what he was doing back on side

FTFY.

As Junky said earlier, hunting wasn't/isn't a big thing. It was/is a politically expedient foil, however.

Good to see you Flashy. Not often you venture outside the snow thread.

Bizarre season this year wouldn't you say?

Personally I am big supporter of a return of fox hunting.

Badger-baiting, hare-coursing and bull-stabbing too low-class for you, or just fancy a bit of variety?

What to do about them in the cities is the real issue.

We feed them. By the dustbins. Every night. They leave the dustbins alone. YMMV but please stay off our land with your 'sport'.

Here's a few reminders:

[b]Fact vs. Fiction - the myths surrounding the Hunting Act[/b]

The Hunting Act 2004 outlawed the chasing and killing of wild animals with packs of dogs but now it's under threat of being overturned. We debunk some of the myths perpetuated by those seeking a return to cruelty.

[b]Fiction: [/b]Hunting is essential to control the fox population
[b]Fact:[/b] There’s little scientific evidence to support the argument that hunting with hounds is necessary for controlling the fox population..

The Westminster Government’s inquiry into Hunting With Dogs, concluded:

The overall contribution of traditional fox hunting, within the overall total of control techniques involving dogs is almost insignificant in terms of management of the fox population as a whole.
In fact, some hunts have even encouraged foxes to live and breed in their area by building artificial earths and putting food down to make sure there are enough foxes to be hunted for so-called ‘sport’.

[b]Fiction: [/b]Foxes are dangerous to people and pets!
[b]Fact: [/b]This is simply scaremongering.

Confirmed attacks on people are extremely rare and as TV presenter and wildlife expert Chris Packham pointed out, you’re in fact approximately 62 times more likely to be bitten by a human than you are a fox.

There’s also no evidence that the parasites and diseases foxes may be carrying pose any significant risk to people or domestic pets and there are very few attacks by foxes on domestic pets as foxes are natural scavengers.

[b]Fiction:[/b] Hunting is humane, foxhounds are trained to kill with a nip to the back of the neck
[b]Fact:[/b] You don’t need to be a scientist to know that chasing a mammal, often to the point of exhaustion and allowing a pack of dogs to rip it apart, in the name of ‘sport’, is inhumane.

A study of post-mortem examinations of foxes killed by hounds above ground undermined this claim, indicating that the animals died from profound trauma inflicted by multiple dog bites rather than a ‘quick bite to the neck’.

The study showed that in many cases foxes are disemboweled first. The Burns report also concluded that hunting with dogs causes animal suffering both during the latter stages of the chase and at the kill.

[b]Fiction: [/b]The Hunting Act has done nothing for animal welfare
[b]Fact:[/b] The RSPCA, League Against Cruel Sports, CPS and police have successfully prosecuted 344 people for offences under the Hunting Act since it came into force. The number of successful prosecutions under the Hunting Act compares favourably with other wildlife legislation aimed at protecting animals.

Those who seek a repeal of the Hunting Act are quite clearly not on a mission to improve animal welfare.

[b]Fiction: [/b]Hunts target old, weak and sick animals to maintain the health of the population
[b]Fact: [/b]This is nonsense. Hounds will pick up the scent of any fox they happen upon during the hunting season regardless of their health.

This claim also conveniently ignores the barbaric act of cub hunting, when fox cubs were specifically targeted for pre-season hunting, each year, to train the new hounds to kill.

[b]Fiction: [/b]Nobody has the right to ban a sport, this is an issue of civil liberties
[b]Fact:[/b] There's no human right to be cruel to an animal in the name of ‘sport’ or otherwise. Such challenges to the law have been thrown out by the European Court of Human Rights and the House of Lords.

The Hunting Act does nothing to stop people from participating in the ceremony of the hunt and riding across the country on horseback with their hounds, nor from participating in cruelty free alternatives such as drag hunting. It only stops the violent spectacle of an animal being torn limb from limb.

[url= https://www.rspca.org.uk/getinvolved/campaign/hunting/facts ]RSPCA[/url]

Not often you venture outside the snow thread.

He normally appears for perceived easy targets. Like Corbyn. Or Abbott.

Kinda like 30 or 40 people dressed like arseholes using a load of dogs and horses to chase a fox. Haw haw. Tally-ho.

We've got seagulls in our town, and we're pretty much inland as it gets for the UK.

Animals adapt.

Well maybe not humans.

The revival of the fox hunting thing is a smoke screen if you ask me. And a say this as someone who used to saboture.

Don't suppose the CPS has anything to announce over the next few days has it?

It was/is a politically expedient foil, however.

Its such a strange issue to be pro

the reality is most folks have a very very low opinion of the sort of person that would do this for sport and fun. It seems strange to want to associate yourself with it when the majority of the populous still support a ban. its making it an issue.t
Perhaps its because that type will vote on that one issue and the type opposed wont ??

Its such a strange issue to be pro

Just occurred to me, did these pro-cruelty dicks maybe get somewhat bored with hunting down the disabled and otherwise vulnerable members of society? Think if they get handed back their upper-crust [s]cockfight[/s] [s]dog-fighting[/s] fox-torturing rituals they'll ease up on the other stuff?

[quote=binners ]You do realise its a precursor? They're just softening everyone up for the introduction of peasant-hunting?
The red coats, horses and hounds, horns echoing, rampaging through council estates, picking off the Greggs munching inhabitants, carrying off their huge widescreen TV's as trophies, as they burn their benefits books, and sell off their council house to a private landlord fellow MP for twenty quid. Or demolishing them if they're in London, and immediately selling off the land to an offshore hedge fund, with the flats already sold to investors in Dubai.
The streets will run gold, with punctured Stella cans washing over the tracksuits of the dead

Ahem: http://newsthump.com/2014/10/01/we-will-let-you-hunt-the-poor-with-dogs-promises-osborne/

Did he really? Crikey, I missed all that in my tumescence at the neo-fascists being put to the sword. Again.

😆

There really is no credible reason to bring back fox hunting, end of.

If there are too many foxes, then trap/shoot them. No need to have toffs on horses chasing them with dogs...

Funny that all the townie dwelling lefties on here think that hunting with hounds involves people riding horses 😆

Let them bring back fox hunting, just make sure the next time it will be banned, its done properly unlike in 2004.

Some 'town-dwellng lefties'. [url= http://www.horseandhound.co.uk/hunting ]Earlier[/url]

Funny that all the townie dwelling lefties on here think that hunting with hounds involves people riding horses

"townie-dwelling leftie" here that grew up on a farm...

Given the amount of discussion going on what are they trying to hide? I see gove was interviewed but it must be something bigger than that.

Given the amount of discussion going on what are they trying to hide? I see gove was interviewed but it must be something bigger than that.

The CPS are about to announce if they are pressing charges for electoral fraud

Well there we go. Explains a lot. She has a great pr team, didn't even need to bump off old Phil.

Funny that all the townie dwelling lefties on here think that hunting with hounds involves people riding horses

Just for you here is The Countryside Alliance's delightful [i]"Introduction to Fox Hunting for Kids"[/i] booklet featuring lots of photos of people riding horses:

Blimmin' town-dwelling lefties 🙄

Right wing swivel eyed loon trolling aside.

I suspect it'll be a lot harder to maintain hunting in its original form these days. Live broadcast of foxes being ripped apart on your child's Facebook timeline anyone?

As mentioned above, it looks almost certainly like it's intended to distract from potentially fraudulent activities.

Posted by a countryside born and raised centre left libertarian if it helps you disregard my opinion easier.

Maybot and her hubby were on the one show last night.

That's the kind of safe space she likes, no tough questions, fawning interviewer.

It was well within her operational parameters.

Another bonus for May is Trump's shitshow, overshadowing the CPS electoral fraud announcement

Funny that all the townie dwelling lefties on here think that hunting with hounds involves people riding horses

Another "town dwelling leftie" here....who happneded to go grow up on a farm, go to agricultural college & worked in farming for 10 years..

You don't know what you're talking about.

Maybot and her hubby were on the one show last night.

Did she say that she had a "stable" childhood? 😀

I live in a town where we are surrounded by countryside. We have both urban and country foxes. I also have friends who keep chickens and foxes have never been an issue: just protect your enclosures properly.

Foxes are impressive creatures who can survive in urban townscapes and high Himalayan mountains alike. They were here long before us and it is us who should adapt to them, not the other way around.

Hunting is a barbaric, unnecessary, outdated, bloodsport that not only treats foxes in a despicable manner but also the hounds they use.
The hunts also treat the countryside as if it's their own playground.