[Closed] Is it racist...

You ever been hospitalised by a preposition, pronoun or adverb?

Well as noted before, "Charlie" is an ethnic slur twice over.

no, Charlie is military slang for the Vietcong, Victor Charlie and slang for cocaine. The word you are thinking of is Gook.

no, Charlie is military slang for the Vietcong, Victor Charlie and slang for cocaine. The word you are thinking of is Gook

"Charlie" is listed on the aforementioned [url= https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_ethnic_slurs ]Big Boy's List of Ethnic Slurs[/url]

Charlie

a. (African American, 1960s-1970s) white people as a reified collective oppressor group, similar to The Man or The System.

b. (Vietnam War military slang) Slang term used by American troops as a shorthand term for Vietnamese guerrillas, derived from the verbal shorthand for "Victor Charlie", the NATO phonetic alphabet for VC, the abbreviation for Viet Cong. The (regular) North Vietnamese Army was referred to as "Mr. Charles".

So we're back to who decides what words are too offensive to use and whether the intent or meaning matters at all.

I think most people agree that the meaning of words matter

Perhaps my definition of physical harm differs to yours? Harm to me would constitute cuts, abrasions, wounds, broken limbs and other injuries of that nature. So, no, not trivialising the emotional and psychological damage hateful words can cause in the slightest.

Can we kill this thread with fire now? I think lumping rape in with getting a Chinese takeaway has definitely ended all reasoned debate.

Well done all.

I thought we were never going to make 17 pages and I'd lost my wager.

I think most people agree that the meaning of words matter

Says the man that wanted to ban "chink" regardless of the meaning.

You haven't clarified where you stand on other dual-meaning words. Should the word "nip" also be banned? Or "slope"? Seems fairly equivalent.

Marmlade Sandwiches for everyone.

Is Robertson's Ok?

Why do some people put so much effort in talking shit?

🙂

Charlie" is listed on the aforementioned Big Boy's List of Ethnic Slurs

Charlie

a. (African American, 1960s-1970s) white people as a reified collective oppressor group, similar to The Man or The System.

didn't realise I was an African American living in the 1960-70's America. Thanks for clearing that one up.

What was I saying about bell ends a couple of pages ago?

Tom W - I'm guessing you're an angry young man in your 20s with a violent distrust of liberal values and of air suspension. I hope you can find a way to broaden your outlook.

Says the man that wanted to ban "chink" regardless of the meaning.

I've already explained this

That combine with things like this

Tom and CM have explained why he isn't allowed to not find it offensive and why he must be a racist or racist apologist to think otherwise.

Make me think either you are not paying attention or are prone to misunderstanding.

didn't realise I was an African American living in the 1960-70's America.

I didn't realise you were a GI in the Vietnam war in the 1950-70s.

According to OED, the derogatory meaning of "chink" goes back at least as far as 1879.

Are older insults okay or worse?

I think that it's enlughtening that this conversation - like the Trump campaign - only became unaceptable when rape got mentioned or inferred.

Oh and funkmaster, again - more medical ignorance - high levels of stress can be argued to cause a physical injury to the brain as stress can proceed substantial structural changes.

Perhaps my definition of physical harm differs to yours? Harm to me would constitute cuts, abrasions, wounds, broken limbs and other injuries of that nature.

So, no, not trivialising the emotional and psychological damage hateful words can cause in the slightest.

Recognising that they're at least equal to physical harm?

I've already explained this

As I understand it you've said it does no harm to ban innocent use of a word which has an alternate meaning that can be used to offend (but demonstrably isn't on here).

How does that to also apply to the words "slope" or "nip"?

Make me think either you are not paying attention or are prone to misunderstanding.

I pay close attention, but do have trouble understanding your perspective on some points.

Graham,I get the impression you may have left your engagement in this for philosophical and intellectual interest behind you a little

I pay close attention, but do have trouble understanding your perspective on some points.

That's probably because you are making some of them up. Where did I explain or even say the op's friend is not allowed to not be offended, or that he was a racist or a racist apologist?

I think that it's enlughtening that this conversation - like the Trump campaign - only became unaceptable

It's enlightening that you thought the conversation was [i]"unacceptable"[/i] before this point.

I thought it was largely amicable and fairly interesting.

Is Robertson's Ok?

You farking what mate?!

[quote=GrahamS ]no, Charlie is military slang for the Vietcong, Victor Charlie and slang for cocaine. The word you are thinking of is Gook
"Charlie" is listed on the aforementioned Big Boy's List of Ethnic Slurs
Charlie
a. (African American, 1960s-1970s) white people as a reified collective oppressor group, similar to The Man or The System.
b. (Vietnam War military slang) Slang term used by American troops as a shorthand term for Vietnamese guerrillas, derived from the verbal shorthand for "Victor Charlie", the NATO phonetic alphabet for VC, the abbreviation for Viet Cong. The (regular) North Vietnamese Army was referred to as "Mr. Charles".
So we're back to who decides what words are too offensive to use and whether the intent or meaning matters at all.

Ignore Poah

He uses "gay" as a slur and then tries to claim it means "girly or unimpressive"

[img] [/img]

How does that to also apply to the words "slope" or "nip"?

Given that the discussion of Chinky has run to 17 pages, I dont think it would be useful to discuss them here.

Graham,I get the impression you Amy have left your engagement in this for philosophical and intellectual interest behind you a little

Nope - still here for precisely that reason.

The point about dual-meaning words like "nip" and "slope" being equivalent to "chink" is precisely that: an interesting philosophical one.

i.e. Is it better to completely ban [i]all[/i] words that have any alternate meanings which are ethnic/racial/religious/homophobic/etc slurs, or rely on self-policing and social pressure to make those offensive meanings obsolete, or some solution in between?

ffs you boring set of ****ers, give it a ****ing rest.

Ton wins!

ffs you boring set of *, give it a * res

Here's an idea, if you find it boring, don't read it. Then it's like it's not even there.

Watching Guy Martin mixing with locals in Chong-Ching the other day, I was so nearly offended.

Evidence that a thread is shite and should die.

1. original discussion is all but lost
2. use of google to find spurious quotes backing up position yet ignores much more obvious contrary ones.
3. Arbitrary last word point scoring between a limited number of protagonists.
4. multiple quote trees.
5. Willful and deliberate misinterpretation.
6. no light, all heat.

Have I missed anything?

Oh and funkmaster, again - more medical ignorance - high levels of stress can be argued to cause a physical injury to the brain as stress can proceed substantial structural changes.

WTF is wrong with you? I agree with that and have said so. I was stating that your assertion that words, in and of themselves, can cause physical injury is horse shite. They can't, end of. Even CM agrees on this count.

Nip and slope originally had alternative meanings, chink and chinky according to wiki - never have - it makes a pretty good argument for the word originating in the USA during the 1880s - not 1970s Britain.

And if you argue that "chinky" is a different word to "chink" - then I'm sure you'd find saying "Im going down to the ****y" acceptable for referring to a Jamaican resteraunt?

Funkmaster - I quote

"Perhaps my definition of physical harm differs to yours? Harm to me would constitute cuts, abrasions, wounds, broken limbs and other injuries of that nature. So, no, not trivialising the emotional and psychological damage hateful words can cause in the slightest."

As evidence that you do not think that stress causes physical harm.

chink in one's armor
A vulnerable area, as in Putting things off to the last minute is the chink in Pat's armor and is bound to get her in trouble one day. This term relies on chink in the sense of “a crack or gap,” a meaning dating from about 1400 and used figuratively since the mid-1600s.

Also if you want to use Wiki.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chink_in_one%27s_armor

Jonny, you missed one,

Pointless grandstanding by an increasingly small, and increasingly vocal number of posters determined to be more right than everyone else, even when almost everyone else has lost the will to live.

drac, please close this shyte boring mind numbing bollox.
I am proper offended by the total mind numbing shyte being posted.
watching jism dry on the carpet is far far more interesting.

Jonny, you missed one,

Pointless grandstanding by an increasingly small, and increasingly vocal number of posters determined to be more right than everyone else, even when almost everyone else has lost the will to live.

I'll take that as a suitable expansion of my point 3. 🙂

Nip and slope originally had alternative meanings, chink and chinky according to wiki - never have

So the phrases "chink in the armour", "chink of light" or "chinking glasses" are literally derogatory terms for a Chinese person wearing armour or appearing as a sliver of light or making a noise?

No.

OED offers ten definitions for "chink", only one of them is a derogatory term for a Chinese person:

1. chink, n.
...A convulsive gasp for breath, or spasmodic losing of the breath, as in hooping-cough; a convulsive fit of coughing or laughing....

2. chink, n.
...A fissure caused by splitting; a cleft, rift, or crack; a crevice, gap.

3. chink, n.
...An imitation of the short, sharp sound produced by pieces of metal or glass striking one another; hence a name for this sound....

4. chink, n.
... apparently a variant of kink n.1, a twist: compare the corresponding chink v.4...

5. Chink, n.
...A Chinese person. Also attrib. (Derogatory.)...

6. chink, n.
...Short for chinkerinchee colloq....

7. chink, v.
...intr. To gasp convulsively for breath, lose one's breath spasmodically in coughing or laughing....

8. chink, v.
...intr. To open in cracks or clefts, to crack....

9. chink, v.
...intr. To emit a short, sharp, ringing sound, as coins or glasses do in striking each other....

10. chink, v.
...trans. To give a twist to (the vertebral column); to crook slightly, sprain....

([url= http://www.oed.com/search?browseType=sortAlpha&page=1&pageSize=50&q=chink&quickSearch=true&scope=ENTRY&sort=entry&type=dictionarysearch ]Linky[/url] - may not work properly)

Given that the original use of the term chink is only found widely in old english and is almost always only ever used in the context of a single phrase, Id argue that its original meaning is obsolescent.

Would you go for a ****y?

Id argue that its original meaning is obsolescent.

Except as aracer pointed out, a search of this forum shows lots of people using those "obsolescent" meanings and no one using the derogatory one (outside of threads like this discussing it).

if any of you lot are married (of which I doubt) I bet your wives/girlfriends ****ing love it when you leave the house.

I'll take that as a suitable expansion of my point 3.

So, I was right! See? I'm right and EVERYONE else is WRONG!

😉

watching jism dry on the carpet is far far more interesting.

#strangest 😆

All I can say is that if J*remy Cl*rkson pulled his Ford Transit off the road into a drainage-channel so as to hurriedly Tweet a picture of a chinese soldier statue along with the label 'Chink in his armour' ...

...this would automatically (if not irrevocably) alter the meaning of 'Dick Van Dyke'. Language is fluid. Sometimes lubricant. Sometimes brake fluid. Sometimes liquid shite.

I thankyew. This thread is over.

So, I was right! See? I'm right and EVERYONE else is WRONG!

I'm not sure you are. I'm going to find some dodgy wiki quotes to prove you wrong.

"Except as aracer pointed out, a search of this forum shows lots of people using those "obsolescent" meanings and no one using the derogatory one (outside of threads like this discussing it)."

Got the numbers? Ive never heard it used unless in the context of that single ohrase.

Would you use the term ****y?

It falls in the 'if you have to ask' category for me - but I do wonder about national identity tags in general.

Is kraut derogatory?
Yank?
Saffa?
Jap?

In many cases the word yank or kraut could be used in a derogatory statement, i.e., 'trust the bloodys yanks to commit friendly fire' - yet unless I'm mistaken, Yank is a commonly used inoffensive term amongst American people and the rest of the world, used to shorthand 'american'
Are single syllable monikers somehow immune?

It's fascinating to me that there are so many acceptable shorthands amongst a few dubious ones that no-one seems to be certain about.

The weirdest one for me is ****, which the English managed to recycle as a derogatory term - yet ****stani's regularly refer to themselves as ****'s without any negative connotation attached, and rightly so - it being an abrivieation of '****stan'
I feel a little joy every time I see ****stani cricket fans holding up placards stating '**** Power!'

[quote=Tom_W1987 ]Given that the original use of the term chink is only found widely in old english and is almost always only ever used in the context of a single phrase

<only replying because we've not yet beaten mumsnet>

Graham's comment needs expanding on slightly - if any of those wanting to ban "chink" had bothered to follow my suggestion and do a search they'd find it being used in at least 3 different ways (chink of light, chink in the armour, chink of coins in a pocket).

[quote=Tom_W1987 ]Got the numbers?
Would you use the term ****ly?

Why don't [b]you[/b] try searching to see. I even gave handy links a few pages back if you can't cope with using the search on here or google all by yourself. Your second point is irrelevant to the discussion - as I pointed out to CM what seems like years ago, my very first post on here was to support his suggest that n**** could be added to the swear filter without causing any harm as there are no alternate non-offensive uses.