Last night lying in my bed falling asleep and simply listening to the noises around me, I became aware of firstly the packs of feral wild children hunting and then listening to the revellers out shouting fighting and basically acting like hairless agitated baboons.
I couldn't help but wonder if our culture and it's dependence on technology combined with a distict lack of anything resembling spirituality or the deep understanding of self it requires, isn't leading to us becoming more and more, feral or primative.
Less patient, less tolerant, less rational, we seem to be moving further and further away from development and evolution, which means we are moving closer towards the apes we evolved from.
Conscious devolution, let us call it, so due to our life style culture and self neglect is humanity becoming more primative and feral ❓
No
No.
No.
my standard response to this type of question is Hesiod's Word and Days, the idea of the past being better has always been a part of human existence. This is something Hesiod recognised c700BC. I suspect that this is something recognised even earlier but my knowledge of ancient texts doesn't go back that far.
I know the bible talks of the fall of man, and i know it roots are ancient, just not sure how far back Genesis goes.
'We must be the change we want to see in the world'
Your world is as spiritual or feral as you want it to be...
I've noticed over the years that angry, cynical, agressive, self-absorbed people are rarely leading fulfilled lives, but people who are open to change, not dogmatic, friendly, trusting, helpful, give of themselves etc, are usually relatively content and fulfilled...
So the world you live in kind of starts with yr own attitude and perspective imo
No.
no
No.
When used to be good old spiritual civilised people we used to burn people who weren't quite spiritual in the way we wanted them to be.
Or read a bit of Dickens or Dostoyevsky to get a feel for how lovely the world used to be.
Yes, we have not burned or hung enough people ... we become feral in political correctness, we become iWorld ... we want to save the world! We want to save humanity! We want this and that but most importantly we want other to change for us or at least let us tell/teach them how good we are. We the maggots!
There is nothing wrong with Dickens or Dostoyevsky's world ... the population was under controlled then.
i like your posts kaesae.
But I have to agree with the consensus. No. As well as what IanMunroe said look at the pictures by Hogarth - particularly Gin Lane.
I think you just need to move to a better estate.
Yes moving to a better place is a good idea and yes if we look at the dark ages and other periods of useless idiocy, we can say now is better. That argument has reflections of the look at other places in the world the UK is a good place to live argument.
However if you look at the attitude and behaviour of people from say the 50's when technology wasn't essential or wide spread and then follow it through to the 60's 70's 80's 90's then 2000's too now, for me there is a distinct shift in attitude/philosophy and subsequent bevaviour.
I think that there will always be pockets of good people and that some might consider that humanity is doing OK, but let's be rational about this, is it a measure of the whole, that determines humanities current circumstances.
The rising crime rates and nature of the crimes, constant global conflicts and let's face everything from driving without giving a shit and lying steeling and cheating as a way of life, must be contributory factors to this question that we are debating.
From my experiences although some individuals continue to evolve and develp, the majority of us humans are becoming more feral and primative.
brooess +1
We make our own worlds
If it helps you, I try to live by these three words:
Mindfulness
Acceptance
Attitude
Might I suggest 'Journey of Souls' by Michael Newton? For those that want to of course.
Peace Joy and Love
The rising crime rates and nature of the crimes, constant global conflicts and let's face everything from driving without giving a shit and lying steeling and cheating as a way of life, must be contributory factors to this question that we are debating
there's not a rising crime rate is there..? it's quite low per capita currently isn't it..? (in spite of the Tories determined efforts..)
not as low as immediately after the second world war perhaps, but the reasons for that are fairly obvious I would have thought..
people have been careless and lying and stealing and cheating as a way of life for as long as there have been people..
you are suffering from fear.. triggered by a shift in perception.. possibly brought on as a result of age related falling testosterone levels
More feral.. maybe in how people are becoming more and more selfish.
Definitely more apathetic.
Definitely more sense of entitlement.
Probably less spiritual.
no.
kids have always been, and will always be, a pain in the arse.
bless 'em.
🙂
(what's the shakespeare line? the one complaining about the behaviour of young men? - all they want to do is drink and sleep with whores - anyone?)
yunki - MemberThe rising crime rates and nature of the crimes, constant global conflicts and let's face everything from driving without giving a shit and lying steeling and cheating as a way of life, must be contributory factors to this question that we are debating
there's not a rising crime rate is there..? it's quite low per capita currently isn't it..? (in spite of the Tories determined efforts..)
not as low as immediately after the second world war perhaps, but the reasons for that are fairly obvious I would have thought..
people have been careless and lying and stealing and cheating as a way of life for as long as there have been people..you are suffering from fear.. triggered by a shift in perception.. possibly brought on as a result of age related falling testosterone levels
Thanks Yunki, a very special reply from a very special person, we all have our needs 💡
oh and:
we are moving closer towards the apes we evolved from.
you get a 'fail' for biology this year Kaesae, we didn't evolve [i]from[/i] apes, we [u]are[/u] apes.
How can technology be essential and yet we're becoming more primative? This whole rant makes no sense whatsoever, its impossible to follow and you are making no coherent points, and all the ones that can be understood are wrong. And on that basis i think its a generous 6 out of 10 as far as rants go, although its -5 points for the weird bit at the start about you falling asleep in bed listening to strange noises. so 1/10 overall.
ahwiles - Memberoh and:
we are moving closer towards the apes we evolved from.
you get a 'fail' for biology this year Kaesae, we didn't evolve from apes, [u][b]we are apes[/b][/u].
go and read some stuff.
Speak for yourself.
Some of us have greatness and as such consider ourselves to be great apes, at the very least 😉
HoratioHufnagel - MemberHow can technology be essential and yet we're becoming more primative? This whole rant makes no sense whatsoever, its impossible to follow and you are making no coherent points, and all the ones that can be understood are wrong. And on that basis i think its a generous 6 out of 10 as far as rants go, although its -5 points for the weird bit at the start about you falling asleep in bed listening to strange noises. so 1/10 overall.
Not so much a rant as an observation, we spend more time distracting ourselves and trying to escape facing who we are, than we do exploring who we are, you can have all the technology in creation but it isn't worth a turd on a stick, if those who control it have all the depth of a tea spoon, all the direction of a drunken elephant or all the vision of a deranged ape!
What is needed is deep contemplation and exploration of our own conscious minds 😯
No
No, not compared with 1939-45, or the middle ages, or even outside Barbarella's in the 70s.
Kaesae - can I have some of what you're smoking?
In regard to the original post I'd be inclined to agree depending on where you live and depending on which part of history you compare recent decline in values.
Personally I find current society from top to bottom devoid of honour, and without 'shame' so you can hardly blame feral kids when they simply have no boundaries set in the first place.
Society in the post war years, indeed between the wars did have a sense of self policed community, kids acting up would have been chastised by somebody or other without fear of reprisal by the PC fascists.
So yes I agree, some aspects of our current society are worse, but it's got not a lot to do with technology.
The Southern Yeti - MemberKaesae - can I have some of what you're smoking?
Not for free! PM me 😉
Move. Most places are quiet and peaceful.
PS I remember the 70s. Now, that [b]was[/b] nasty.
I am moving in about 4 to 6 months 😀
Down to income really, poor area's are full of feral people.
[Last night lying in my bed falling asleep and simply listening to the noises around me, I became aware of firstly the packs of feral wild children hunting and then listening to the revellers out shouting fighting and basically acting like hairless agitated baboons.]
I'd move house.
Before I can move house I would first have to move into one, seems a lot of people don't realise just how bad it's getting out there.
I live in Edinburgh and it's not exactly the roughest city in the world, but give it a few years at this rate and it will definately be rough!
Society in the post war years, indeed between the wars did have a sense of self policed community, kids acting up would have been chastised by somebody or other without fear of reprisal by the PC fascists.
People seem to think that cracking down on "feral children" and the like with tougher sentencing for breaking the law will solve the issues when it is clear it has never worked. If it had worked there wouldn't be quite so many people in prison as there are at the moment. This is merely a production line, boxing up the damaged goods as they come off the line and storing them on the shelf.
Better to go to the beginning of the line and turn it off. That would mean of course sorting out education, jobs and tackling unemployment blackspots. Of course this would cost money that certain people don't want to pay for.
Us, who are a few steps up the ladder from the "feral Children" are hardly setting a good example either, and I don't see a change coming anytime soon with our habit of voting in right-wing Governments over the last few decades.
my standard response to this type of question is Hesiod's Word and Days, the idea of the past being better has always been a part of human existence. This is something Hesiod recognised c700BC. I suspect that this is something recognised even earlier but my knowledge of ancient texts doesn't go back that far.I know the bible talks of the fall of man, and i know it roots are ancient, just not sure how far back Genesis goes.
You are right, a great deal of the bible can be traced back to the Egyptians beliefs and borrowed from them, and therefore can be taken back even further than that. I definately like the idea that throughout life all people have looked back with rose coloured glasses.
http://www.newworldencyclopedia.org/entry/Ape#History_of_hominoid_taxonomy
Just to clear up the use of the term "ape". It's not very scientific and Biolgists used to use it as a term to differentiate between hominids and the other primates. So our friend did not make a "biology" fail.
[url= http://www.anxietyculture.com/antisocial.htm ]8000 years of antisocial behaviour[/url]
"What is happening to our young people? They disrespect their elders, they disobey their parents. They ignore the law. They riot in the streets inflamed with wild notions. Their morals are decaying. What is to become of them?"
Plato, 4th Century BC
Yes moving to a better place is a good idea and yes if we look at the dark ages and other periods of useless idiocy, we can say now is better. That argument has reflections of the look at other places in the world the UK is a good place to live argument.
Maybe not a fail on the biology front, but the history is a little off - or at least outdated. "Dark ages"? Try reading a bit, you could do worse than to start with "In Search of the Dark Ages" by Michael Wood.
been doing a bit of reading, Google is good for something, found references to Sumerian texts and their account of the flood and the fall of mankind. Which for anyone with a reasonable understanding of ancient history won't be surprised to learn are reasonably similar to later Greek and Hebrew texts.
So that takes the literal record of "yesterday was better" to c 3000 to 2000BC. ie 4-5000 years ago.
If we want to look sideways consider why so many of the existing tribal cultures practice some form of ancestor worship, it does suggest a belief that the ancestors are more knowledgable, that they are in the position to offer some guidance, I don't believe it is a huge step to take to argue that the idea of deference to the past generations might mutate into the belief that the world they lived in was better, that the lives were longer, the weather better, etc.
I think the idea of the past being better falls into the category of the summers of our childhood were hotter, the winters snowier. It is quite incredible how falible the human memory can be whilst being perfectly correct, by that i mean we recall exactly those things that suit our argument and forget those things that do not. So yes there are feral kids now and in the past there were times there were not, but there are times now when there are no feral kids and times in the past when there were. Your memories suit what you want to believe.
kaesae, interesting post. Who's to say thay humanity is all moving in the same direction?
Cultures and societies vary greatly, and diferent traits and values will be succesful in different ones. Your idea of "consious devolution", if it is possible, may not be all encompassing.
Can a species diverge into two or more by evolution, if different groups in different locations go in different directions?
"the idea of the past being better has always been a part of human existence"
Societies rise, and they fall. The evils that plagued the ancients, plague humanity now. As a species have we not become better than our ancestors? Probably not. Nor worse.
I do enjoy kaesae's posts: always a bit bonkers but always thought provoking.
Bonkers 💡
I've graduated to being bonkers woohooo!
I is officially bonkers 😀
I'd like to thank my mouth for helping me eat, my lungs for helping me breath and my ASS! for helping me not be too full of shit ❗
There have always been feral, uncivilised/conditioned people, however can anyone name a period in the history of our race, when there have been quite so many ❓
Hmmm. Yes. Well.
What does "spiritual" [i]mean[/i], exactly?
however can anyone name a period in the history of our race, when there have been quite so many
Well, i have heard it said that there are more Humans currently alive than have ever died, so in absolute terms, yes there probably are more $hits running round. As a propotion of the population, same as ever.
However if you look at the attitude and behaviour of people from say the 50's when technology wasn't essential or wide spread and then follow it through to the 60's 70's 80's 90's then 2000's too now, for me there is a distinct shift in attitude/philosophy and subsequent bevaviour
I think things have improved massively.
* Racism, whilst still exists, is far less normalised and generally seen as being 'bad thing' nowadays.
* Unlike the 50s, women aren't expected to give up work and start popping out kids as soon as they get married. They don't even have to get married! Rape and domestic violence within marriage are now illegal, unlike in the 50s.
* Gay people are legally allowed to have relationships
I feel that as a nation, we've come on a long way over the past 60 years.
There have always been feral, uncivilised/conditioned people, however can anyone name a period in the history of our race, when there have been quite so many
Can you name one where there hasn't?
There's two differences these days I think. Firstly, we're so much better at reporting "antisocial behaviour" and various other social crimes these days, so it feels like we're up to the fetlocks in feral kids, paedophiles, rapists and all the rest when we're probably just catching more (and the media are so [i]very[/i] quick to splash newspaper-selling headlines at the first sniff of an angle).
Secondly, I think it's considerably harder for kids these days when we take delight in expending so much energy [i]telling [/i]them that they're feral scumbags who'll never amount to anything. It's a self-fulfilling prophecy, you've only got yourself to blame.
And as an aside, non of this has anything to do with spiritualism. People are moral (or amoral) despite doctrine, not because of it.
kaesae.. I love you and that's all that matters
I feel that as a nation, we've come on a long way over the past 60 years
Quick look on the interwebs suggests otherwise...
UK oesophageal cancer rate is worst in Europe
Worst place to live in Europe
Biggest binge-drinking/alcohol abuse problem in Europe
Biggest teenage pregnancy problem in Europe
Biggest obesity problem in Europe
Worst teenage drug issue in Europe
Worst quality of life in Europe
Amongst worst in Europe for ageism & care of the elderly
And, er, worst in Europe for broadband throttling 😕
Yep, we've come far ...
UK oesophageal cancer rate is worst in Europe
Worst place to live in Europe
Biggest binge-drinking/alcohol abuse problem in Europe
Biggest teenage pregnancy problem in Europe
Biggest obesity problem in Europe
Worst teenage drug issue in Europe
Worst quality of life in Europe
Amongst worst in Europe for ageism & care of the elderlyAnd, er, worst in Europe for broadband throttling
Yep, we've come far ...
And the figures 60 years ago were? remember we had just some out of the second world war, rationing was still in place (finished in 1954), just undertaking a major rebuilding program to rebuild the destroyed housing stock, TB still widespread, etc, etc.
Worst... in Europe
Now compare Europe to most of the rest of the world and get back to us 🙂
No, not compared with 1939-45, or the middle ages, or even outside Barbarella's in the 70s.
Would that be Barbarella's in Plymouth?
Yes,move to a better area.The problem is the scum seem to be able to afford to run a car on their social security handouts so can now travel to blight other areas once they have trashed their own.
These people have no respect at all for anyone else or the living environment.
But what "role models" do they have?
Foul mouthed multi millionaire footballers,obnoxious so called celebrities, and the greedy institutions which now run our economy.
Theres only one word to describe all this - [b]Koyaanisqatsi[/b]
These people have no respect at all for anyone else or the living environment.
But what "role models" do they have?
Foul mouthed multi millionaire footballers,obnoxious so called celebrities, and the greedy institutions which now run our economy.
It's ironic that in my experience.. (37 years living amongst the 'scum' that you describe..) most of the motivation behind the refusal to abide by societies laws.. most of the driving force that stops these people from joining the rat race and earning a living.. the thing that makes them think it's ok to play the system and spend your hard earned tax on their low rent lifestyles.. the utter lack of respect..
is the horrific sense of shame they would feel if they stooped to your level..
they see the law abiding tax payer's "role models" as being foul mouthed multi millionaire footballers, obnoxious so called celebrities, and the greedy institutions which now run our economy.. and nothing could be more abhorrent to them than buying into the whole turgid system and conforming to that odious stereotype..
in my experience..
ironic innit..?
Shame ?.They seem to be proud of how many ASBO's they've got.
Seen the pics of the looting in London during the riots ?
The low life were even proud of nicking a bag of Basmati !
I could never stoop to their level.Trackie bottoms do nothing for me !
Sorry kaesae didn't mean to risk offence - I didn't say you were bonkers, just your chat posts! I do find some of your posts really off-the-wall, but always entertaining and always thought provoking. And that's what matters.
🙂
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@buzz-lightyear no offence I was just mucking about, humour is essential for keeping stress levels down, plus I am happy to be thought of as bonkers, I am also thankful that I have an ass 😉