It's very difficult not to get shot down by a SAM fired at you from point blank range really, especially if you're not expecting it. They go very fast, are maneuverable enough so that you can't really get out of their way, and depending on what it's using to track you, chaff and flare aren't always going to work. The F-15 pilots probs got no more than a couple seconds warning between the patriots have seen them and impact.
Edit: During the Gulf War this was also a problem (badly 'trained' servicemen and highly complex and technical weaponry) so much so that the Patriots at King Fahd were not allowed to be operated on auto, and were only manually fired.
Well yes it obviously COULD be a coincidence but when you take into account how completely obsessed many Americans (and the vast majority of MAGA ists ) are with the 11th of September attack then I reckon the chance of a coincidence reduces considerably.You know that "Tehran" written backward in Lao spells "Epstein", don't you? Well, I mean, it doesn't, but if it did, it would be a powerful message.
I doubt maga supporters have a basic grasp of spelling so they most likely would believe that ^
The UAE have a massive oil & gas sector, as well as ports, finance, tech, etc. For every lifestyle guru and fake day trader on Tiktok poncing about in a hourly-hire Lambo there are 1000 expats doing actual jobs. I sincerely doubt any of them are phoning their GP in e.g. Walthamstow or claiming jobseekers allowance, or voting in UK elections. They're not benefitting from anything in the UK so why the hate? Unless, you know... envy.
I suspect all those "genuinely" working out there (I have friends in the airline world out there) as you describe are not the targets of the comments. Most I know do a few years with a plan to come home, and are open that it's not all peace, love and Lambos.
Bell ends who brag about their rax avoidance - at home or abroad - should be attached to a drone for the flight hime.
What a very odd thing to say. As far as I know there are no Laotian interests in this and therefore naturally it has nothing to do with what has happened. I never mentioned Epstein either. So basically you can make up any old rubbish and it won't apply to the current situation.Well yes it obviously COULD be a coincidence but when you take into account how completely obsessed many Americans (and the vast majority of MAGA ists ) are with the 11th of September attack then I reckon the chance of a coincidence reduces considerably.You know that "Tehran" written backward in Lao spells "Epstein", don't you? Well, I mean, it doesn't, but if it did, it would be a powerful message.
Unlike what I posted. Fact=Americans are (generally) still obsessed with the 11th of September attacks and A major operation was launched on exactly the same date in the Islamic calendar.
So to recap.1- Any old made up nonsense= nothing to do with it.
2-Things that actually apply to this= Possible connection.
I imagine this would be an opportune good time to put up fuel and electricity prices
Badanoch and Farage have both made statements suggesting they'd very much like the Americans to drag us along with them into yet another futile war in the middle east
Honestly, it's like Iraq and Afghanistan never happened
Americans don't even put their months/dates in the same order as the rest of the world and seem surprised by anyone using YYYY-MM-DD or DD-MM-YYYY formats so I think your average American realising that the Islamic calendar is different would be quite a leap.What a very odd thing to say. As far as I know there are no Laotian interests in this and therefore naturally it has nothing to do with what has happened. I never mentioned Epstein either. So basically you can make up any old rubbish and it won't apply to the current situation.Well yes it obviously COULD be a coincidence but when you take into account how completely obsessed many Americans (and the vast majority of MAGA ists ) are with the 11th of September attack then I reckon the chance of a coincidence reduces considerably.You know that "Tehran" written backward in Lao spells "Epstein", don't you? Well, I mean, it doesn't, but if it did, it would be a powerful message.
Unlike what I posted. Fact=Americans are (generally) still obsessed with the 11th of September attacks and A major operation was launched on exactly the same date in the Islamic calendar.
So to recap.1- Any old made up nonsense= nothing to do with it.
2-Things that actually apply to this= Possible connection.
I do hope that all those uk citizens in the Middle East hiding for tax avoidance purposes get no help from the uk taxpayers
You read into it how you like, I didn't take that as leave them to rot'
I just think it's pretty shitty to think a British citizen shouldn't be helped because you've decided they don't deserve it
Again, who is saying they shouldn't be helped? People are saying they should help fund any help the uk government provides..
there are 1000 expats doing actual jobs. I sincerely doubt any of them are phoning their GP in e.g. Walthamstow or claiming jobseekers allowance, or voting in UK elections. They're not benefitting from anything in the UK so why the hate? Unless, you know... envy
And why do you think dubai was so attractive to do those 'actual jobs'? Doubt anyone has an issue with them being there earning a fortune and NOT benefiting from the uk, however people do have an issue when they expect the uk taxpayers payer to bale them out in times of trouble.
Help them of course, but they can pay for it themselves. Seems perfectly fair to me.
What was the name of the journalist that moved out there because she said that Labour's VAT on private schools was something something. She's married to the Reform MP for Skegness right, the one that splits his time between Dubai and Skegness with rep for using family trusts in Jerset to avoid paying tax?
So, generalisation it may be, but there certainly seems to be a strong trend that ex-pats living out there a) have a lot of money and b) don't want the government to really have that much of it.
I think one of the people that has made (and is continuing to make) a toinne of cash from the Teeside thing moved out there as well. If Private Eye is to be believed, he's a bit of a tax wrong'un too.
Worrying times we live in
Really is. It has been getting steadily worse over the last lot of years. I don't remember the last time things seemed relatively stable in the world.
As I already mentioned in my reply on the previous page (when somebody else made the same point) about the American car forum that I am a member of that is now going crazy about this. It doesn't need the Average American to know about the Islamic calendar. It need one or two who know about it to tell everybody else.Americans don't even put their months/dates in the same order as the rest of the world and seem surprised by anyone using YYYY-MM-DD or DD-MM-YYYY formats so I think your average American realising that the Islamic calendar is different would be quite a leap.What a very odd thing to say. As far as I know there are no Laotian interests in this and therefore naturally it has nothing to do with what has happened. I never mentioned Epstein either. So basically you can make up any old rubbish and it won't apply to the current situation.Well yes it obviously COULD be a coincidence but when you take into account how completely obsessed many Americans (and the vast majority of MAGA ists ) are with the 11th of September attack then I reckon the chance of a coincidence reduces considerably.You know that "Tehran" written backward in Lao spells "Epstein", don't you? Well, I mean, it doesn't, but if it did, it would be a powerful message.
Unlike what I posted. Fact=Americans are (generally) still obsessed with the 11th of September attacks and A major operation was launched on exactly the same date in the Islamic calendar.
So to recap.1- Any old made up nonsense= nothing to do with it.
2-Things that actually apply to this= Possible connection.
Envy over how big some people's bank accounts are.
Yawn. No, it wasn't about envy of the rich, it was about the morals and practicalities of tax avoiders. Make them pay their way.
The UAE is paying for all extended accomodation and repatriation flights anyway, so it was as pointless a comment as it was spiteful.
This is for travellers booked on cancelled flights... holiday makers, visiting business folk, etc. It has nothing to do with those living there for tax purposes.
So yes some Americans may not understand the Islamic calendar but it only takes a few that do to announce it to the others for them all to go mad over it.
But that's the difference between it having been planned to be such and celebrating the coincidence.
It need one or two who know about it to tell everybody else.
and the others to be the kind of free thinking non questioning individuals that then just repost it without a moment of 'wait, does this even seem vaguely believable?'
FWIW, 9/11 in the Islamic Calender is 6/23 and it can't escape anyone with their eyes open that 6 is indeed 2x3, and 3 is the magic number*, so launching the attack on 9/11 (or 6/23) was predictable as they would be doubly lucky at striking the TWIN (2x) towers of the WTC.
Makes you think, eh!
*in some cultures but importantly, according to De La Soul
Or is it down to lack of coordination.
Training, situational awareness, leadership (or lack of) failure to follow instructions, basic stupidity?
Regardless of whether you think the actions are justified, USAF pilots are some of the most highly trained individuals around, I doubt the error was there, The Kuwaiti military on the other hand...
Bit strange (and borderline racist) to blame the Kuwaiti military. Maybe they were engaging unknown targets in their airspace to prevent possible strikes on their country and citizens?
It would not surprise me if the Bone Spur Cowboy and his Secretary of WAR!!! forced through the attack without involving other regional powers.
I don't mind people earning money. I've met quite a few people who have moved to UAE, Qatar, etc, either semi permanantly or who hop back and forth just enough to make sure they don't pay tax in the UK.how many medics working in Nepalese hospitals were there chasing the money?
At least we're at the crux of the matter now. Envy over how big some people's bank accounts are. And why not chase the money anyway? Everyone needs it, so why not try to get a bit more of it if you can?
My SIL's friend who I mentioned a few pages back boasts about how her husband earns so much and pays so little tax, but she and her kids are still living in the UK. She won't move out there because "of how they treat women" (she still goes out to visit!) but seems quite happy for hubby to take money from them - double standards.
I sincerely doubt any of them are phoning their GP in e.g. Walthamstow or claiming jobseekers allowance, or voting in UK elections. They're not benefitting from anything in the UK so why the hate? Unless, you know... envy.
I am sure plenty of them are voting in UK elections.
Those who split their time still use UK services when in the UK.
The whole point was there seems to be some expectation that the UK gov owe them a repatriation mission. Firstly there's never a promise of that from anywhere. Secondly whilst the UK gov do charge for those missions they are subsidised by UK tax payers.
I'm sure there are some who genuinely move there to be part of the local culture with no intention on returning, but most are not. So having paid no tax for years they will return to UK and make use of public services. Often, in my experience, complaining about them.
which repatriation flights?It's not being nasty to suggest if you've left the country specifically to line your pockets and avoid paying tax, you should contribute when you expect your country to bail you out.
Noone is suggesting we let them rot in a war zone to teach them a lesson
"I do hope that all those uk citizens in the Middle East hiding for tax avoidance purposes get no help from the uk taxpayers."
It does - UK taxpayers, not the UK!Seems pretty clear cut what the suggestion was. The UAE is paying for all extended accomodation and repatriation flights anyway, so it was as pointless a comment as it was spiteful.
Apparently, you should - it's great money so long as you are willing to relax your moral compass a bit. (I've never used Instagram). There's no need to take umbridge - it may be useful for people considering this sort of move to know how they are perceived back home. I'm not sure why just because someone has a magic blue passport we should go out of our way to help them (not necessarily spending money but in the worst cases putting UK armed forces in harms way) if they have essentially decided they aren't part of UK society and paying their way.And no I don't work in the UAE and yes I do pay tax in the UK, so it's not like I feel personally attacked by the comment. I just think it's pretty shitty to think a British citizen shouldn't be helped because you've decided they don't deserve it despite having absolutely zero information about them other than assumptions gleaned from a couple of Instagram memes.
Did anyone else have the misfortune to listen to Pete Hegseth speech earlier on? It is staggering that the US has reached the bottom, then kept on digging until they found him. On talking about the military action he said:
"no stupid rules of engagement, no nation building quagmire, no democracy building exercise."
So they are not even attempting to suggest that they have any genuine interest in the future stability of Iran.
Tiny Pete just screams of being someone with unresolved childhood issues.
I sincerely doubt any of them are phoning their GP in e.g. Walthamstow or claiming jobseekers allowance, or voting in UK elections.
One of them is an MP, sitting in Parliament and spends his time telling people the UK should be more like Dubai. His hideous wife spends her time (tax-free in the UAE) writing columns for the Torygraph stressing what a lawless cesspit the UK is
As well as the tax situation, they're obviously not too bothered about horrific human rights abuses, but then why would they be? That's only an issue for brown people, not rich white ex-pats economic migrants. According to them it's a state of affairs we should aspire to.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c1w3e3yn843o
the American car forum that I am a member of that is now going crazy about this. .
I think your biggest stumbling block here is extrapolating the views of a few fannies on a car forum to be an explanation for...well, anything really.
Imagine if you tried to explain UK politics by reference to some of the twaddle written here by fannies like me!
Did anyone else have the misfortune to listen to Pete Hegseth speech earlier on? It is staggering that the US has reached the bottom, then kept on digging until they found him. On talking about the military action he said:
Yes it also contained this nugget "the most lethal and precise airpower campaign in history" A day after bombing a school.
I guess not killing innocent civilians is "politically correct" or something "so called international institutions" are probably against but what do they know the Woke Losers.
America **** Yeah!
Did anyone else have the misfortune to listen to Pete Hegseth speech earlier on? It is staggering that the US has reached the bottom, then kept on digging until they found him.
He's definitely been injecting himself with too much testosterone, banging on about his 'Warrior Ethos'. I think he watched Dr Strangelove and thought it was a documentary
Will be interesting to see how this plays out - surely if you want a regime change you need to have someone waiting in the wings that you're OK with to take over?
There doesn't seem to be any logic that backs this up with the recent US/Israel action.
Can't see the general Iranian population managing to overthrow the current regime - in what ever form it currently takes and evolves through in the coming days/weeks/months.
Seems like a dick move by Trump & Co.
As well as the tax situation, they're obviously not too bothered about horrific human rights abuses, but then why would they be? That's only an issue for brown people, not rich white ex-pats economic migrants. According to them it's a state of affairs we should aspire to.
My mate lived out there for a while. It was very much a 3 tier system, of which the expats were definitely not at the top of the pecking order.
Basically the Emiraties were at the top of the chain, significantly below them are the expats. Then at the bottom of the tree all the other folks from round the world who got treated like utter shite
Sounded a horrible place to live tbh
Bit strange (and borderline racist) to blame the Kuwaiti military.
They've taken responsibility for it. That's why I blamed them, they did it...
From the Guardian
“During active combat – that included attacks from Iranian aircraft, ballistic missiles, and drones – the US Air Force fighter jets were mistakenly shot down by Kuwaiti air defenses,” Kuwait has acknowledged the incident and launched an investigation"
I don't remember the last time things seemed relatively stable in the world.
My recollection is things seemed generally stable during the Obama years (bit of a generalisation, granted) but before that it was pre-11th Sept 2001. I wasn't always watching terribly closely I will admit.
My recollection is things seemed generally stable during the Obama years
I guess it shows just how much the media and/or access to information influences perspectives.
I can't recall anything looking like stability from joining the Army in 1996 to leaving in 2020, there was a constant information stream regarding global conflict, some of which we were involved in, others not. But still quite expansive and informative.
But to give Obama credit*, he did prefer a cheeky** drone strike instead of what we see now.
*Sarcasm
*Also Sarcasm
The Obama years had the Financial Crisis, The Ukraine occupation, the continuation of TWOT in two conflict zones, etc.
BUT, Obama didn’t start any of it and arguably fixed or tried to fix some of it! Trump has stated A LOT of things, domestically, economically, internationally and illegally.
That’s the real difference - the near constant barrage or big hits, one after another means that no one has a chance to recover.
Admittedly, Trump is going for foundational change but he’s doing so on so may different axes and against such established order that it’s hard to understand let alone internalise.
Trump has stated A LOT of things, domestically, economically, internationally and illegally.
And has no comprehension of what he has started, or any plan to end it...
Notably Obama reduced tensions with Iran through diplomacy, working with countries around the world, not just immediate neighbours of Iran. Takes a lot more work than starting a destabilising war (from a distance).
Notably Obama reduced tensions with Iran through diplomacy
He needed to, he was pissing many leaders off by ordering quite a few extra-judicial killings via drone strikes inside their borders. That also came with a hell of a lot of civilian casualties.
I get it, you guys have a real hard-on for the orange one, understandably. But do try to take off the rose-tinted spectacles, Obama may have been a statesman, but he was equally as ruthless as he was gifted as a politician.
On the expat thing.. If they are British citizens they should be treated as such (Begum anyone?).
There are loopholes that need to be closed though for sure.
I have to pay Spanish income tax on my Spanish earnings to the Spanish government for example, and as a UK citizen domiciled in the UK, I'm technically liable to pay it again to HMRC.
But there is a dual taxation agreement so my UK liability is offset what I've already paid in Spain.
As my tax liability is a bit higher in Spain, it's basically works out at a negative figure so I only actually pay Spainish tax on Spanish income.
And I pay uk tax on income in the UK like anyone else.
Dubai is a bit different.. Are they non doms? They only have to pay tax in dubai, where the tax is basically non existent.
Trump has stated A LOT of things, domestically, economically, internationally and illegally.
And has no comprehension of what he has started, or any plan to end it...
Bloomberg News is reporting that Qatar is down to four days of Patriot missile stocks at current rates of use.
I hope he's got a logistics plan at least
Basically the Emiraties were at the top of the chain, significantly below them are the expats. Then at the bottom of the tree all the other folks from round the world who got treated like utter shite
Sounded a horrible place to live tbh
There was a 3 part documentary on iplayer called Inside Dubai - Playground of the Rich, which made for pretty grim viewing.
The stereotypical ex-pats were exactly what you’d expect. Basically they were all Richard Tice and Isabella Oakshott. Truly vile!
The Emiraties all appeared to live like royalty.
The ‘workers’ who all seem to be from India or the Philippines, were essentially bonded slaves. A mate worked out there for a couple of months (that’s all he could stomach of the place) and said the Emiraties literally regarded these workers as sub-human and essentially disposable.
Throw in the unbearable heat and the fact that all there is in every direction is desert and I find it completely incomprehensible why anyone would want to live there. I can’t think of anything worse!
Throw in the unbearable heat and the fact that all there is in every direction is desert and I find it completely incomprehensible why anyone would want to live there. I can’t think of anything worse!
I've only ever been once, on a training gig for 8 weeks was not impressed.
Turd rolled in glitter is the analogy that springs to mind.
Basically the Emiraties were at the top of the chain, significantly below them are the expats. Then at the bottom of the tree all the other folks from round the world who got treated like utter shite
Sounded a horrible place to live tbh
There was a 3 part documentary on iplayer called Inside Dubai - Playground of the Rich, which made for pretty grim viewing.
The stereotypical ex-pats were exactly what you’d expect. Basically they were all Richard Tice and Isabella Oakshott. Truly vile!
The Emiraties all appeared to live like royalty.
The ‘workers’ who all seem to be from India or the Philippines, were essentially bonded slaves. A mate worked out there for a couple of months (that’s all he could stomach of the place) and said the Emiraties literally regarded these workers as sub-human and essentially disposable.
Throw in the unbearable heat and the fact that all there is in every direction is desert and I find it completely incomprehensible why anyone would want to live there. I can’t think of anything worse!
Yeah it's pretty horrible.. A lot of the Indian workers went with a view to sending money back to the wife and kids or whatever.. Found themselves living in settlements of porta cabins with pretty much no facilities...
Basically people trafficking but for cheap/free construction labour rather than prostitution.
In among all the darkness, I had to laugh when Don T told us all how they'd sunk the Iranian Navy and it is now "floating at the bottom of the sea"
Epic Fury my arse.
Obama may have been a statesman, but he was equally as ruthless as he was gifted as a politician.
Hence the nickname O-bomber.
WTF has Obama got to do with this? Lol
May aswell blame Margaret Thatcher or whatever lol
The stereotypical ex-pats were exactly what you’d expect. Basically they were all Richard Tice and Isabella Oakshott. Truly vile!
The Emiraties all appeared to live like royalty.
The ‘workers’ who all seem to be from India or the Philippines, were essentially bonded slaves.
It's a bit more nuanced than that - I appreciate that's not your favoured language though. And certainly you could find enough loudmouths to justify any stereotypes you already hold.
But on the subject of manual workers from the subcontinent: this is Saudi Arabia rather than the UAE, but the principle of low wages, high living costs and grim accommodation is the same.
I didn’t think it was a fiercely contested competition. I wasn’t really imagining anywhere in the Middle East as a bastion of human rights, democracy, equality and respect for migrant workers.
I find it just as incomprehensible that anyone would live in any of those places through choice. I suppose there’s the massive wedge of tax free cash, but the price you pay for that? Not for me thanks. And that’s before people started lobbing drones and missiles around
