[Closed] Intruder killed.

of course they had to arrest the murderer - how the hell do people expect the police to be able to beat a confession out of someone unless they're in custody.

It is the third one of these in only a few months in the Greater Manchester area, is violent breaking and entering on the increase in the area?

It'll start reducing again with a few more of these killings 🙂

Konabunny....there is provision in law for a pre-emptive strike if you genuinely believe your safety or life is in danger.

To have a situation whereby somebody has to harm you first is ludicrous....if you are threatened by somebody you are legally entitled to fight your way out of that situation before any harm comes to you....this is something the police taught me in fend-off training years ago when i started with the ambulance service.

Of course you are still bound by the definition of 'reasonable force'....but as the police release more information on this case it would appear the man was outnumbered and at some point his wife and child were involved in the situation, i think most people would fight tooth and nail to protect their family....i hope common sense prevails and he walks free with no charges.

Amazes me that so many laypeople think they know exactly how the police work because they watched an episode of the Bill once in 1998.

Much like they know how finance works because they have an overdraft 😉

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is that the blank confession form ?

I'm incensed!! Outrageous it is.

How's work going tm? 😛

not good dd, still not been paid for aug - shysters 😥

not going in until they pay me and have an interview this afternoon for another job.

not good dd, still not been paid for aug - shysters

not going in until they pay me and have an interview this afternoon for another job.

B'stards! Time to take the law into your own hands I think. Riot!

i considered rioting but i think i'll just stay in and revise for my ou exam instead.

So where's taxi25's post saying - "Ah, that's fully and comprehensively answered my question. Thanks guys!" ??

I can see what happened. Two males going round trying doors (due to time of day I imagine not many would lock their doors) then using the idea of two men in your house/the surprise and probably carrying screwdrivers etc you'd probably **** yourself and let them take something if you confronted them.

After all- better to let them get away with a TV than face something violent?

If they are lucky, more than likely the home owner would be a female or male etc in their 50's or 60's or one male on his own.

Occasionally though they'd enter the home of someone who (probably didnt even know he had it in him himself) just reacted very very strongly back.

I've got absolutely no sympathy for the intruder.

However if I had killed a violent home invader, I would expect that the police would be taking me in for investigation, which means arrest. Hopefully I would be savvy enough under the stress to insist on the presence of a lawyer before saying anything.

Normal police procedures I am afraid but I guess the best thing to do is not to enter another's house without invitation. Nahhh ... I say cull the population ...

I can see what happened.

Have you offered yourself to either the prosecution or defence teams as an expert witness hora? There aren't enough of your types around.

I foresee a tv series spin-off following your work.

So what else happened? A two man team were delivering extra large pizzas and one is always alittle inpatient and knocked and entered the wrong house?

hora - you've got a remarkably active imagination! What did they have for breakfast that morning?

Konabunny....there is provision in law for a pre-emptive strike if you genuinely believe your safety or life is in danger

If anyone entered my house they'd join the charity door knockers and gas salesmen in my purpose-made sex swings in the cellar 8)

hora - Member

So what else happened? A two man team were delivering extra large pizzas and one is always alittle inpatient and knocked and entered the wrong house?

No excuse there ... cull and blame it on bad pizzas experience and people who cannot find the right address. 😆

Anyway

The most amazing aspect has to be the intruder's shameless family turning up at the scene and laying flowers!

The most amazing aspect has to be the intruder's shameless family turning up at the scene and laying flowers!

Dobbo- those flowers have now been removed ( I suspect by neighbours).

Samuri

Ooh, hark at her!

taxi25 - Member
I don't do internet arguments

Its the procedure to follow. You are faced with a situation where one person has killed another ... with, by the sounds of it, a level of pre-meditation ( i.e. he's picked up a knife from somewhere and used it ). He has to be arrested/detained for further enquiry.

And let the enquiry / court decide.

Poor ****er. Minding his own business and now hes got a lifetime of bad memories and hassle from something that wasn't his choice in his own home.

Plus what the **** was a 37yr old doing carrying out an aggravated burglary? Shouldn't he have retired or grown out of that phase?!

Better bad memories than a dead child Hora.

Stretford a couple of years back after a minor road/traffic incident a family was followed back to their home and the two guys forced their way into the home and put the father in a coma/in hospital. It was about 'respect' apparently.

What is wrong with people?

He's been released on bail now

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-manchester-14968236

If it was a serious charge, they'd not release him, yes?

hora - Member
What is wrong with people?

So you make a deliberately provocative posting on an internet forum with anti police undertones and expect full and complete agreement with you? Perhaps they should just invite him down to the police station for an informal chat over tea and scones, if they fancy it?

I have to agree my sympathies tend to lie with the homeowner in this sort of instance. I was just thinking how I might feel being arrested in the same circumstances. Asking a question is being " deliberatly provocative " ?????? Maybe it is to some people, or is anything posted on here just an excuse for an argument or ridicule. 🙁
Oh yes some of the more considered replies have shown to me that arresting the home owner probably is the best way to deal with the matter, for everyone.

Maserati and a Range Rover? Self-employed Manchester businessman? Hmmm...

If it was a serious charge, they'd not release him, yes?

you can eneter someones home by accident .. i've done it. got called to fix a boiler went to house at about 7pm gave it may best debt collectors knock.. no reply could see family watching telly in kitchen.. knocked like the world would end.. no one blinked in house rang doorbell etc etc opened door ajay shouting hello its the plumber no one blinks walks in shouting hi its the plumber no one blinks.. bloke jumps up shouting wtf etc etc .. i was in 33a not 33.. so it aint all cut and dry

yeh love the range rover maserati and the courier van outside must pay well van driving..

Here's the case that it reminded me of: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-manchester-10808704 Bearing in mind that very few facts have been established and disclosed, the only difference between the cases so far (in the absence of factual differences) is how sympathetic the reporting has been. Of course, it'll all shake out in the investigation (and subsequent prosecution, if there is one) because that's why you have them.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/crime/8776004/Man-charged-over-raid-which-saw-burglar-stabbed.html

Seems like the poor chap who got stabbed was an upstanding member of society. Oh wait.

hobnob obviously society failed this criminal. Just like society failed the rioters recently who are all hardworking and honest young men.

And not to forget that fine upstanding example of the home owners right to self defence Kenneth Noye .

Not to judge this case at all but one should not leap to easy conclusions based on media reports .

A career violent criminal going out equipped into his garden to stab someone?

A career violent criminal going out equipped into his garden to stab someone?

there is provision in law for a pre-emptive strike if you genuinely believe your safety or life is in danger.

To have a situation whereby somebody has to harm you first is ludicrous....if you are threatened by somebody you are legally entitled to fight your way out of that situation before any harm comes to you....this is something the police taught me in fend-off training years ago when i started with the ambulance service.

Of course you are still bound by the definition of 'reasonable force'....but as the police release more information on this case it would appear the man was outnumbered and at some point his wife and child were involved in the situation, i think most people would fight tooth and nail to protect their family....i hope common sense prevails and he walks free with no charges.

</cognitive dissonance>

In a open-space armed and attack someone lurking in a bush is not reasonable force.

However the court (at the time) found in his favour.

Any normal person would have backed up (or not gone into the garden in the first place) and phoned the Police.

You started off as Mr Householder-Rights-Good-Riddance-To-Bad-Rubbish and now you're just saying people should wait until they and their family are attacked by intruders and shouldn't arm themselves to protect their property.

((((Englishmen's homes))))

Hora it was a jury that aquitted Noye on exactly the same law of self defence as is in force now .( Though now codified in sec 76 of the crim justice and imig act 2008 )

The law that people say does not give enough protection to home owners who defend their property or families .

We know next to nothing about this case and should perhaps refrain from applauding or condemning until the facts are available.

I'm not a savage or a rabid daily Wail waving muppet.

If someone broke into my house and I confronted them and it was 'stalemate' I'd ask them to leave.

If they came at me (heaven forbid- and I mean that) I really don't know what would happen but it wouldn't be nice.

If someone enters your property tooled up then I really have no sympathy for the assailant. Sorry. You commit burgularly knowing the risks. If you don't then you really are abit stupid. A Garden is different- its not in an enclosed space or invasion of someones actual home.

Saying all this a couple of months ago both of us were woken up and we were both in joint agreement 'did you hear that or am I dreaming' (Nope both definitely heard the sound of someone trying to gain access.

<1 min I was in the neighbours garden scouring there for someone. I didn't even think about my mortality as one thrust of a sharpened screwdriver could have ended my life.

If someone enters your property tooled up then I really have no sympathy for the assailant. Sorry. You commit burgularly knowing the risks. If you don't then you really are abit stupid

Don't be sorry. It's called culling the herd.

"<1 min I was in the neighbours garden scouring there for someone. I didn't even think about my mortality as one thrust of a sharpened screwdriver could have ended my life. "
Not getting at you Hora but that is roughly what Noye said to the jury when he succeessfuly justified stabbing the copper.