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My colleague made a switch in Minecraft that could operate the room lights *in real life*.
The nest learning just means instead of 5 mins setting it once, you have to continually fiddle with the dial for weeks and then it changes sensible settings after one unusually hot/cold day.
The local weather is pointless as most people are happy to have a set temperature at all times, why does it matter what the outdoor temp is?
Turning off when leaving is good, but is buggy.
Never felt the need to turn on my heating when I am not home. The nest is programmed to come on a set times so it is never too cold.
Only thing I like is the app as I find the scroll wheel device almost unusable
Why do you need a light bulb to come on when a door bell is pressed? What about if it not dark or you are not home? Does the bulb switch off?
So it's not [i]"just like a normal thermostat"[/i] then, you just don't like it very much? Fair enough.
It's potentially a nightmare, it just depends on what you actually need and the quality of what you build or obtain.
If a company makes IoT style devices then the firmware/software used should either be completely FOSS (Free Open Source Software) so anyone can modify and maintain it, or if proprietary should be guaranteed to be fully maintained for a decent lifespan.
We are getting to the point where companies that should know better will push a locked down product onto the market with little intention of maintaining it longer than 24 months. This might be fine for disposable items but terrible for products that have lifespans that might run to a decade or more.
Example: I used to own a basic Seagate NAS drive that by default is open to the Internet. This was purchased in 2014, this year I was poking around with it and realised it had some gaping security holes (not really a problem for me as I blocked it from the internet). I quite reasonably expected Seagate to have published some firmware patches to plug these, but no, the device is now discontinued and a potential security risk for those who don't have the knowledge on how to properly lock it down (or better yet extract the HDD and plug it into something else).
- it learns how you like the temperature and then does it for you.
Not really. it does drop it back once a year though to try and save you money.
- it detects when you leave the house and drops the temperature.
best thing about it. Switches it off after 2 hours of no one being at home
- it knows the local weather and humidity and adjusts itself to compensate.
it knows the weather but doesn't compensate.
- it can be controlled remotely (e.g. so you can turn the temperature up before you get home).
ok comming back from holiday in winter.
Fair enough andy. I don't have one. Just though saying it was just like a normal thermostat was a bit odd.
Anyway, back to the OP and getting into IoT. One of the most accessible routes is probably playing about with a Raspberry Pi.
Plenty of IoT projects based around a Pi in the back issues of MagPi, which are all available as PDFs free of charge from:
https://www.raspberrypi.org/magpi/issues/
The point I was making was all the "smart" features do not actually solve any problems, so you might as well have standard thermostat.
[quote=g5604 ]The point I was making was all the "smart" features do not actually solve any problems, so you might as well have standard thermostat.
So a specific IoT device is a bit rubbish. That doesn't mean IoT is rubbish.
Admittedly it is all a bit overhyped and many things are solutions looking for problems (who really needs an IoT kettle?) but there are useful applications.
Yeah, very few IoT things are [i]"essential"[/i] because, well, we've done just fine without them till now.
But the point isn't really that everyone particularly [i]needs[/i] a lightbulb than can be controlled by their phone or a mirror that displays the news headlines.
The point is that ever cheaper electronics, consumer accessible micro controllers, and omnipresent wifi, means that it is now possible to make these things yourself for a few quid and a bit of know-how.
IoT is just like factory 4.0 really.
So what are the useful examples?
There's a great twitter account that covers all the IOT stuff: @internetofshit
Can't decide if my favorite is the salt shaker that cant grind salt, or the juicer.
[quote=g5604 ]So what are the useful examples?
A CH timer. Better control interface than the standard buttons and LCD display, automatic adjustment when the clocks change, when you're away on holiday you can turn the heating and hot water off and turn it back on for hot water when you're nearly home.
The trouble with IoT is that rather than just simple better functionality like that people feel the need to have bells and whistles - hence overly complicated thermostats doing stuff nobody really needs (personally I rarely touch the thermostat, a basic single setting is fine for that).
[quote=atlaz ] https://twitter.com/internetofshit
..and then we have the haterz:
https://twitter.com/internetofshit/status/889579536177909760
All of those hating on IoT seem to be missing that the problem there isn't the coffee machine installer, or even the concept of having an internet connected coffee machine (which has some reasonable benefits), but whoever is in charge of the important security critical airgapped network for the control room.
[quote=g5604 said]So what are the useful examples?
My beer fridge, in the garage. I can ask Alexa what the beer temp is and change it if need be.
😛
All of those hating on IoT seem to be missing that the problem there isn't the coffee machine installer, or even the concept of having an internet connected coffee machine (which has some reasonable benefits), but whoever is in charge of the important security critical airgapped network for the control room.
But some devices just don't NEED to be connected to the internet. I can't see a single need for my kettle to be online... it's never so urgent that I can't wait a minute for it to boil. Locks that can be hacked, or bricked are another example. Enhancing devices with the internet should benefit us not just bring a whole new set of problems that, at the very least, entirely replace the existing problems (ie. lost keys vs. bricked IoT lock. Lazu development is part of the problem (see devices that won't function at all without internet access). Just because we CAN do stuff, doesn't mean we SHOULD. I'm far from a luddite and I can see a use-case for lots of IoT devices... just not all of them.
[i]But some devices just don't NEED to be connected to the internet.[/i]
Is this [url= http://singletrackworld.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/08/eurobike-2017-read-tyre-pressure-remotely-with-hutchinson-conectires/ ]here[/url] such an example?
[quote=atlaz ]But some devices just don't NEED to be connected to the internet. I can't see a single need for my kettle to be online...
I agree - I already mentioned kettles (it's not about it not being urgent, it's that you have to manually interact with it anyway). However it is potentially useful for a coffee machine (a commercial one, which could provide fault and maintenance information).
The interesting thing here is that IoT devices with poor security are showing up other security holes - security of networks shouldn't just be reliant on the security of devices connected to them.
Lots of consumer IoT does seem a bit silly. There's a huge amount of value in industry though.
From [url= https://www.microsoft.com/en-gb/internet-of-things/customer-stories ]https://www.microsoft.com/en-gb/internet-of-things/customer-stories[/url]
C'mon, that internet-controlled butt plug looks pretty good! 😆
"I can't come in today boss, Chinese hackers have taken over my arse"
I just had a thought about an internet enabled tyre pressure gauge - I could check my tyres from my desk instead of strolling down to the bike shed every lunchtime. Want!
Seen the ads for that internet enabled doorbell? Someone rings it, it puts them through directly to your smartphone via video so you can talk to them - if it's a delivery driver you can tell them where to put the parcel.
Not a bad idea?
What if it was hooked in the national grid, along with every other kettle, and could be used to help control peak demand? OK not a NEED, but then as already said no modern tech is NEED. I'm sure when electric kettles came out there were similar arguments.But some devices just don't NEED to be connected to the internet. I can't see a single need for my kettle to be online.
Seen the ads for that internet enabled doorbell? Someone rings it, it puts them through directly to your smartphone via video so you can talk to them
[i]"Yeah, I'll be down in a minute. Just taking a shit."[/i]
"Yeah, I'll be down in a minute. Just taking a shit."
[img] 
[/img]
[quote=nickjb ]What if it was hooked in the national grid, along with every other kettle, and could be used to help control peak demand? OK not a NEED, but then as already said no modern tech is NEED. I'm sure when electric kettles came out there were similar arguments.
It's already hooked into the national grid along with every other kettle - exactly how does information on exactly when kettles are being used help with managing peak demand when they already have lots of information on what the peak demand (from all appliances) is? It doesn't tell them anything useful they don't already know (even assuming kettles would do that, and they won't).
There are real practical advantages to electric kettles, so no I don't suppose there were similar arguments.
Information can go two ways. Limit demand when it is in short supply. I expect well see continuously variable pricing sometime soon and more smart devices to take advantage.exactly how does information on exactly when kettles are being used help with managing peak demand
So why did they take so long to catch on in France (And possibly other nations that I don't have experience of) if its such a universally good idea? Why can't there be [i]real practical advantages[/i] to smart devices that we simply aren't aware of yet?There are real practical advantages to electric kettles, so no I don't suppose there were similar arguments.
A CH timer. Better control interface than the standard buttons and LCD display, automatic adjustment when the clocks change, when you're away on holiday you can turn the heating and hot water off and turn it back on for hot water when you're nearly home.
My C/H timer automatically adjusts itself when the clocks change. As far as heating is concerned, it will come on in the morning, just to warm the house a bit during the day, then again around tea-time, because I never know exactly when I'm going to be home, I just want a bit of warmth because the room I always use has no radiator, only a gas fire if it's really cold, the rest of the time I put on a thicker top and stop wearing shorts, I usually have some tea-lights going when I'm watching telly, and the telly screen chucks out a surprising amount of heat, so I don't need to keep adjusting things. About the only things I might like to switch on are lights so the house doesn't look empty, but I can just get a couple of timer units to plug a couple of lights into, 'cos it's only going to be in winter around tea-time again.
I just had a thought about an internet enabled tyre pressure gauge - I could check my tyres from my desk instead of strolling down to the bike shed every lunchtime. Want!
They're available for cars, Zus have just introduced a complete car kit with rear reversing camera, tyre gauges, etc
https://www.indiegogo.com/projects/zus-connected-car-system--2#/
[quote=nickjb ]Limit demand when it is in short supply. I expect well see continuously variable pricing sometime soon and more smart devices to take advantage.
So what you're suggesting is that my IoT kettle won't boil water for my cup of tea when I want one because the demand is too high? Remind me again why I want an IoT kettle...
Why can't there be real practical advantages to smart devices that we simply aren't aware of yet?
I'm sure there can, but suggesting there are advantages I haven't thought of, and which you can't explain to me because you (and everybody else) haven't thought of them either is a bit, well, hand wavy.
If there are advantages, then tell me what they are - I'm yet to see a credible reason for owning an IoT kettle. In case I need to point it out again, I'm not an IoT hater, it's an area I've worked in so it should be in my benefit to talk it up. If you wait a minute I'll argue in favour of IoT, but it's just silly adding it to devices which don't need it - to use an example mentioned earlier, who wants to use an app on their phone to dispense salt?
[quote=CountZero ]My C/H timer automatically adjusts itself when the clocks change. As far as heating is concerned, it will come on in the morning, just to warm the house a bit during the day, then again around tea-time, because I never know exactly when I'm going to be home
Which already requires a significant level of smartness. Your C/H requirements are fairly normal and I'm not suggesting an IoT version will do anything significantly different, but wanting it to be on for when you get home but that being a variable time is where there is a real advantage. You could for example get your phone to send a request to turn the heating on when it connects with bluetooth in your car in your work car park after 3 in the afternoon, so you have to do nothing but your heating comes on for you.
I work in the digital division of a large consultancy firm and can honestly say that the IoT is a load of bollocks. There is no reason why everyday objects or appliances should be connected to and accessible to the internet. I mean, it results in things like this...
You might as well say that bicycles are a load of bollocks because they lead to things like this:
[img] 
[/img]
It's useful for some things to be connected, not others.
No, of course not, but it might take 90 seconds instead of 60, or ping a message to your phone saying it'll be 50p cheaper if you are willing to wait 2 minutes, or pause your washing machine while it boils. Not earth shattering but the IoT kettle is often chosen as a ludicrous example and even that has some small use.So what you're suggesting is that my IoT kettle won't boil water for my cup of tea when I want one because the demand is too high?
[quote=nickjb ]No, of course not, but it might take 90 seconds instead of 60
I'm still struggling to see why I'd want to have that functionality.
or ping a message to your phone saying it'll be 50p cheaper if you are willing to wait 2 minutes
Given it currently costs less than 0.1p to boil a kettle for a cup of tea, that seems somewhat unlikely - though even if you were bothered about saving 0.05p by waiting 2 minutes your phone could do that all by itself, no reason to have the functionality in the kettle. But then current IoT kettles don't have that functionality (I doubt any will in the near future, if ever), and the reason they're mentioned as a stupid thing to have IoT functionality is that they are a stupid thing to have IoT functionality. If there were useful features to be added to an IoT kettle then surely you would be able to buy an IoT kettle with those features...
Have you missed that I'm not anti IoT as a concept, simply not in favour of adding IoT functionality to everything? I'm in the middle - just because some IoT devices are stupid doesn't mean all IoT devices are stupid, just because some IoT devices are useful doesn't mean all IoT devices are useful.
SMALT is a joke, yeah? Please let it be a joke.
Limit demand when it is in short supply. I expect well see continuously variable pricing sometime soon and more smart devices to take advantage.
It's already here. Commercially, some organisations will reduce their energy consumption (for example, by turning down heating or air conditioning) to reduce electricity costs at peak times.
Remind me again why I want an IoT kettle...
You don't. However, an IoT freezer might switch off for 30 minutes at peak time, and in return, you get cheaper electricity.
Very worth watching that video if you are thinking of buying some IoT gadgets...
A lot of the current 'internet of things' devices are either churned out by high tech far eastern factories with no cares about IT security, or are churned out by western appliance designers who have no concept of IT security, so your connected kettle allows anyone with a bit of knowledge to get onto your wifi network...
Most IoT gadgets are totally pointless, the stuff that will be useful is the things that you don't notice - when your electricity/water/gas meter suddenly never need to be manually read again, or when your car calls the emergency services when it's had a crash..
[quote=jon_n ]so your connected kettle allows anyone with a bit of knowledge to get onto your wifi network...
Maybe. If they can connect to your kettle.
Yes these things have dodgy security and I'm loathe to say dodgy security is OK - ideally everything should be secure (and there's certainly not enough benefit from an IoT kettle to be worth even the slightest chance of it compromising your security 😉 ). However in reality the chances of your WiFi being hacked via your kettle are minimal - there isn't an easy attack vector provided you have otherwise good WiFi security.
So they'd need to connect to a kettle, which is presumably behind a router firewall or at the very least a NAT gateway and doesn't really have any good reason to have an open port, then they'd need to be able to reprogram it somehow remotely, which'll be hard as presumably it'll just be a microprocessor running whatever IoT tasks the kettle supports not a full operating system, then from there they [i]might[/i] get access to other things on your network provided you have no security at all.
Nah.
(There [i]are[/i] undoubtedly plenty of security risks with IoT stuff, not denying that)
no need to hack your wifi.
plug in a fancy IoT device, and it'll probably use UPNP and quietly punch a hole thru your firewall anyway.
and as per that vid, so much tat has no way of providing firmware updates if any vulnerability is found.
and on 99% of consumer devices it's pretty easy to find a vulnerability.
Mirai was just a start.
For hobbyists IFTTT looks interesting. A guy I work with is messing around with this and can switch on a Hue light when his Ring doorbell goes off.
I work in the internet of the traditional internet, so I guess I'm a bit of a dinosaur now. But is a doorbell that can control a light bulb from within the same house considered IoT? It kinda sounds like it's in similar territory to a remote device that can turn on the TV... Or a doorbell that can, well, wirelessly alert you with a sound...
I always assumed IoT is not really IoT unless it connects to the wider internet. Surely anything operating on a home network is more like the Intranet of Things?
I agree butcher. Being able to control your house over the internet only becomes the IoT if there's some kind of big data learning going on that uses the internet.
So for example, my 3D printer will soon be fully controllable and watchable from anywhere, but unless it used problem-solving big-data, or became part of a print-farm, or similar, I wouldn't call it IoT.
Most of the time it's very difficult to think of a use.
Tesla's tracking of driving data is more like it. Coming at automated-driving from a completely different angle to most others robotics-approach.