It’s been a couple of decades since we’ve had all of the knowledge/data at our fingertips. Add to that the once sci-fi dreams of virtually instant Global communication, translation, video calls/confs and the ability to factcheck without getting on your bike to visit a library/microfiche depository.
So how’s it going? Politics? Education-levels? Conspiracy? Polarising? Dumbing down or brushing up?
Still waiting for the interact facts police to arrive and remove a lot of fake truths.
To early to tell.
Well, there's the lol cats.
Mostly boobies innit.
Rabbit with pancake on head is unconcerned.
Mostly boobies innit
Nice pair Flashy.
I suspect we waste more time than we ever used to 'researching' the perfect purchase each time rather than just going into a shop we trust and buying what they had. Same with travel tickets, seems like you spend forever trying to work out how to get the best price where previously you either phoned up or went to agent. We might save a few bob but not really sure it is worth it
I suspect we waste more time than we ever used to ‘researching’ the perfect purchase
On the wider public scale, do you think that people’s pinpoint diligence as consumers at all carries over into fact-checking to inform important decisions such as voting intentions?
On the wider public scale, do you think that people’s pinpoint diligence as consumers at all carries over into fact-checking to inform important decisions such as voting intentions?
That is indeed another thing. We used to be happy to pay for our news and there was a cost of entry to the market that limited the amount of spurious crap. Now we are flooded with just and have to hunt out the truth ourselves
The way that world has changed in the last 20-30 years has been staggering, and if anything the rate of change is increasing, not levelling out.
We can do so much now that was simply the stuff of dreams when I was a kid.
Covid, whilst terrible has been made a lot easier to combat, a lot easy to work though and a lot more tolerable to isolate though because of digital technology and the internet than it would have been 10 years ago and the Doctors and Scientists working on it now have access to a lot more processing power and information.
It's not that it hasn't come with some considerable downsides. In the early days it was fairly benign, ironically 20 years ago Governments were terrified of it, they could control what was broadcast and printed within their borders, but the internet was completely unregulated - the press ran scare stories about a teenager in Preston downloading the Anarchist Cookbook, Governments seemed more concerned that the bullshit they'd been selling for years was just that. It didn't take long for us to work out that most people around the world, just really wanted a quiet life, watch a bit of sport, play with their children, hang out with their friends etc. It didn't matter if they were from Manchester, Paris, Beirut, Osaka or St Petersberg.
It didn't last long, once Governments accepted that couldn't beat the internet, they decided to join it. They say people will believe anything if it comes from their chosen media, my parents would believe anything in the papers or TV news, for a long time my generation believed anything that was on the internet, because it told you the stuff they wouldn't show on TV.
What worse now is that I get the impression no one cares if they're being lied to, or generally bullshitted, we tailor our lives to watching / reading content that gives us the emotional response we crave, it doesn't matter if it's trashy 'reality stars' latest beef on Twitter or Migrant Caravans full of rapists and members of MS-13 that has been inexplicably marching towards the US border for years now. We've teased back into fearing and hating unseen people from 'over there' as a way to control us.
I suspect we waste more time than we ever used to ‘researching’ the perfect purchase each time rather than just going into a shop we trust and buying what they had. Same with travel tickets, seems like you spend forever trying to work out how to get the best price where previously you either phoned up or went to agent. We might save a few bob but not really sure it is worth it
Yeah, 'efficiency', it sounds good on paper but it's probably one of the most dangerous threats to quality of life for humans.
Every time I watch the news and they announce this new machine or device that's going to "help workers, make them safer, and ease their burden" I know it's bullshit, I've been around the block too many times, it never works that way, they simple turn 2 jobs into 1 and increase profits.
Online shopping is the same, a travel agent might employ 5, 10, 1000 people who have the knowledge and skill to sell you a holiday they won't be shit, but we'd rather save 10% a book online. I'm guilty as anyone, I once booked a hotel in Prague for friends and I that looked great in the pics, but was dirty and downright dangerous in real life.
the internet might make it easy to book/buy stuff online but it also makes it REALLY easy to check out independent reviews (Trip advisor, forums etc) so that argument doesn't make much sense to me tbh! As has been mentioned there's not a lot I buy now without researching to the nth degree online first! 😂I’m guilty as anyone, I once booked a hotel in Prague for friends and I that looked great in the pics, but was dirty and downright dangerous in real life.
Having said that, independent reviews are a load of rubbish generally, and fall under the category of 'unfiltered rubbish information' along with other kinds of social media etc.
@molgrips I can only disagree. You have to know how to interpret the information of course, and filter out the "noise" (same as on here 😂) but I've bought hundreds if not thousands of things online and I can honestly say I've not been wrong-footed by reading (enough) independent reviews/forum posts/etc. Either I was expecting the thing to be good, and it was, or I've known it was going to be shit but took a punt anyway! (and then found it was shit). Contrast that with "unbiased" reviews from, say, a bike mag... guaranteed total guff 😂
I'll never understand why so much import is given to what some unknown twerp types on their keyboard and hits send. You know, all the social media, as it's come to be known, like a normal part of our world. Everyone's opinion is given such weight when really, wgaf what my next door neighbour or Billy-Bob in Omaha thinks... about anything really!
ummm... it really isn't 😂Everyone’s opinion is given such weight
Here's a perspective from nearly two decades ago:
The whole thing seemed more like a massive phone book/Yellow Pages back then...
The opinions that tend to carry the most weight are the master-baiters. The populists.
I’m guessing here but would say that under-50s internet-fans (are you a fan? Measure how much time you spend on it vs time spent on other hobbies/interests) will be recently and nowadays more influenced by the likes of Joe Rogan, pewdiepie, Jordan Peterson, Ben Shapiro, etc etc than they would by independent research/education/
The US has made the internet it’s very profitable ‘alt-media playground’ and everyone is jumping on for the ride. The anarchic/libertarian tone that would (naturally) arise with the freedom of communication afforded by the internet coincidentally began after 9/11. Unfortunately (and because of that) the tone and direction of ‘rebel’ media got a kickstart versed in US Nationalist right wing talk radio-style populist rhetoric. Which is now going mainstream.
It’s slightly watered down than it was in the mid noughties but it’s much more popular and the song remains the same ie ‘muh freedoms’ vs blacks/browns/gays/commies/immigrants/EU/wimmins/vegetarians/environmentalist ‘conspiracy’etc
etc etc.
I’ll never understand why so much import is given to what some unknown twerp types on their keyboard and hits send. You know, all the social media, as it’s come to be known, like a normal part of our world. Everyone’s opinion is given such weight when really, wgaf what my next door neighbour or Billy-Bob in Omaha thinks… about anything really!
I don't give a shit about whatever you are whining on about, if that helps.
I've only heard of them from here! I doubt most of my peers would have heard of any of them (except Pewdiepie, he's fairly famous). I actually spend quite a lot of time on the internet but except for here don't go down the rabbit-hole of social-media/reddit/memes or whatever other bollocks "internet fans" do with their time 😂The opinions that tend to carry the most weight are the master-baiters. The populists. Most under-50s will be nowadays more influenced by the likes of Joe Rogan, pewdiepie, Jordan Peterson, Ben Shapiro
My eyesight isn't as good as it used to be.
You get out of it what you want to get out of it. There'd be a lot less whining if people exercised a bit more quality control, certainly around social media. It's like watching reruns of Love Island all day and concluding "television is crap."
I can only disagree. You have to know how to interpret the information of course, and filter out the “noise”
There's some wisdom in this.
For instance, one of my pre-CV19 obsessions was escape rooms. If you look at regular review sites like Tripadvisor (as opposed to a dedicated enthusiast blog / review site) then you'll see almost exclusively five star reviews. But the thing is, they're such a relatively new phenomenon that reviewers aren't reviewing the individual room but rather the concept itself. It's like someone posting a restaurant review having never eaten out before; "amazing experience, not only did I not have to cook my dinner but they actually bring it out to your table! A++++ would nom again!!" So when looking for reviews, any that open with "I've never done anything like this before but..." you can and should immediately skip over because their opinion is invalid, they are not equipped to critique the game as they have no baseline for comparison.
I miss my distraction free Amstrad.
What worse now is that I get the impression no one cares if they’re being lied to, or generally bullshitted
There was an article, i cant seem to find it now, that said something similar.
Most people will click on a clickbait title knowing it's false but still get the same sensation.
Are we more manipulated now or just more aware it's happening and dont care?
how to write a click bait title you wont belive number four 😉
a post popped up on my FB feed recently where someone had built a wifi adapter for a Commodore 64 😂 Someone wrote a working web browser years ago, but it doesn't work anymore now that most sites use HTTPS as it hasn't got the grunt for the encryption!I miss my distraction free Amstrad.
You can probably break the internet down into 2 main chunks. The first 10 years which was dominated by the desktop computer, and the second 10 years dominated by the smart phone.
It almost feels like an unthinkable alien world now, but it's really only been in the last 5, 6, or 7 years that everyone including your granny has a smart phone. And no such thing existed until 13 years ago.
Is it any coincidence we have experienced so much political disjointedness during the past 5 years or so? Everyone plugged in and addicted to social media, delivering content specifically targeted towards their interests (and prejudices). This being most peoples source of news, ultimately shaping their perspective of the world.
The next 10 years could be interesting. We are entering a period where the social constructs we have relied upon for tens of thousands of years are being completely reinvented. It worries me a bit.
I remember when the net was going to finally allow democracy to penetrate China as they would never be able to control/moderate it....
It now seems that China has been very effective at controlling it and that it's actually western democracies that have been undermined by it.
Remember when you had to look in the paper to see the cinema times?
Remember when if you recognised someone in a film from another film and you couldn't remember you just had to lump it.
Remember when if you wanted to book a hotel you had to ring round loads to find out how much it was or if they had availability?
Remember when if you wanted to go somewhere far away by car you had to study a map and write out the route on a bit of paper?
The past was shit!
a post popped up on my FB feed recently where someone had built a wifi adapter for a Commodore 64
I was online using a ZX Spectrum a few weeks ago.
Anyone remember "the information age"?
That was a phrase that got bandied about at the turn of century wasn't it...
Humanity was about to enter an age of true enlightenment, where distance and national borders would mean nothing and the free sharing of knowledge and uninhabited collaboration would yield untold benefits for all.
What happened to all that then?
It was about 20 years too early. Your kids will love it.
What butcher said.
Typical Guardian reader here but the way social media can be used to manipulate people and spread nutty conspiracy thinking is quite alarming, and we are only at the beginning.
Sophisticated use of big data and AI to pander to people's worst, most base instincts has already helped give us Brexit and Trump, what next?
It was about 20 years too early. Your kids will love it.
Nah, they're already under the spell of YT "Influencers". But by their age Saturday morning telly was doing a similar job with me, just not "on demand" and I wanted transformers not minecraft...
I think the real issue is that the open, free sharing Internet envisaged 20 odd years ago required some infrastructure. Which really meant it needed businesses to build and organise it because the various government's of the world couldn't... Apparently.
Fast forward two decades and the way most people interact with "the Internet" is via one commercial portal or another google/apple/Microsoft/netflix/amazon/Disney/facebook/etc... One company or another controls your route to "content", and has some of your personal details in exchange...
You can’t really fault business for inserting themselves into people's interactions with "the Internet" but it comes with some unintended consequences. Many of those businesses have developed tools and platforms to help the "targeted marketing" process, so Interneting could become a profitable enough exercise to carry on doing, which in turn has meant the creation of personalised little "bubbles" where you are fed that "content" which keeps you engaged (note: I use the term 'engaged'), the benefit of which is you have to do less sifting to find the stuff you want to view... Right?
Is it any wonder though that those with grander political schemes (often coupled to a commercial goal or two) have grabbed hold of those same targeting tools, and the neatly categorised, self selecting people in bubbles, and used it to "inform" them of ideas and concepts (rather than just products and services) they might find 'alluring'...
I think if you had to label this particular phase of the Internet's history you'd probably go with a term like "the age of targeted disinformation", "bubble Wars" or "that decade or two where civilization was subverted by pocket sized rectangles, constantly whispering lies", whichever sounds snappier...
Ultimately you reap what you sow, and 20 years ago humanity handed a concept with lots of potential over to commercial entities, they delivered a seamless network of communication tools and naturally enough monetised it, and in the process inadvertently created a tool that allows those seeking to drag us back to our baser instincts to do just that...
I have hope though that during the next 20 years this error will be recognised and addressed, there are some encouraging signs, and that we'll get back on track for that "information age" we were promised.
In the interim I can watch 'Wreck it Ralph' in HD whenever and wherever I like, so it's not all bad...
You can probably break the internet down into 2 main chunks. The first 10 years which was dominated by the desktop computer, and the second 10 years dominated by the smart phone.
It almost feels like an unthinkable alien world now, but it’s really only been in the last 5, 6, or 7 years that everyone including your granny has a smart phone. And no such thing existed until 13 years ago.
The internet is more than 20 years old.
The smartphone wasn't invented in 2007. There were smartphones before the iPhone was released.
Not sure we're doing that will at dealing with the moral maze side of it. A life more algorithmic seems to be one where choice and self determination is gradually being weeded out. Guess if you want the most out of it you just have to work for it if you want the best out of it.
The internet is more than 20 years old.
The Internet and the World Wide Web are not the same thing.
The Web is about 30 years old, though obviously it took some time to become ubiquitous.
The Internet kind of evolved rather than having a single point of creation. The adoption of TCP/IP by ARPAnet and arguably the birth of the Internet proper was 1983, but you can trace the proto-Internet back to the late 1960s.
The internet is more than 20 years old.
I rounded it up for practical purposes. Between 1995 and 2000 went from 0.4% to 6% (of the World’s population use internet)
Since then it has roughly doubled every 5 years
2017 was the year that passed 50%
“When I took office, only high energy physicists
had ever heard of what is called the World Wide
Web... Now even my cat has it's own page.”
- Bill Clinton
https://www.internetworldstats.com/emarketing.htm
The Internet and the World Wide Web are not the same thing.
Try telling that to normies/boomers
- Barbara, I’m just disappearing into the garden office to Google on the World Wide Web
- Is the World Wide web like Yahoo?
- No, Google is like Yahoo, the World Wide Web is on the internet
- Is the internet the same as AOL?
- It’s not AOL anymore dear
- Oh, what is it now then?
- It’s social media
- You mean Facebooks?
- Yes, and The Tweets, and and The Instagrams
- So is social media the internet now?
- No, the internet is the internet. Social media is more the world wide web
- I don’t like your tone Harold. It sounds like mansplaining
- The dickens? Barbara, have you been drinking the feminazi koolaid?
- (annoyed) I’m not sure I know what you mean Harold, and anyway weren’t you going to disappear into your shed
- ‘garden office’
- Well I call it a shed
- (under breath) I will not be cucked by some SJW feminist
- What’s that Harold?
- (*door*)
(60 minutes later)
- (*taps garden office door*) Harold dear?
- (a clatter from inside)
- Yesdearsorrywhat?
- (through door) I brought you some cool lemonade
- I’m just clearing up leave it outside would you?
- I heard monkeys Harold. What are you doing?
- (muffled response)
- You’ll have to speak up Harold (tries door. Door locked) are you okay in there?
- (Louder) I’m watching Joe Rogans
- I’ll leave your tea on the BBQ
- (...)
I created my Hotmail e-mail account, to play on Microsft Gaming Zone, back around '97. The zone is gone, but the e-mail accounts live on as Outlook these days.
Try telling that to normies/boomers
Oh, yeah. That's why I mentioned it really, a lot of people don't realise. But folk confusing technology terms is hardly new. I did tech support in the 90s and you needed a degree in telepathy to work out what folk were on about half the time. So so many people referred to the computer desktop / minitower itself as the "hard drive." And then you get exchanges like this one I genuinely had:
Me: "How much space is there on your hard drive?"
Customer: "Well, my wife likes to get up on that there AOL and she's downloaded 40 hours, is that enough?"
Delayed gratification is now underrated,but at least we will see Jeff Bezos in orbit.
Did I miss this being posted already?
The Internet's a conduit for a lot of good things (obtaining information, allowing debates amongst a diverse range of people, ease of obtaining goods & services etc. etc.) and also a lot of bad stuff (child porn, enabling easier tracking of people (whether for malicious reasons or not), allowing like minded people with vile views to virtually congregate and reinforce/perpetuate/normalise those views etc. etc.)
The problem as I see it is that was time passes the good parts are eroded or exploited and the bad parts are ever increasing. We're already at the point this is starting to seriously impact wider society (election interference, fake news causing to real issues, racist views spreading, the spreading of dangerous political stances such as populism and Nationalism etc. etc.). Yet there's no easy solution, the bad will always exploit it and trying to prevent them doing so is pretty futile without much more censorship and that's a whole other pandora's box.
As for the future, I can see it fragmenting more as is the current US initiative for a 'clean' Internet (and is already implemented by other countries with oppressive regimes). A Western 'clean' Internet might start out as just keeping a select number of questionable tech out but I'm sure censorship will soon slowly creep in and control of that could end up in private hands not just governments, both likely with little oversight. Our data won't be any safer either, Western companies have proven time and again they'll exploit it and can't be trusted with it - I can't say I care much if a few Chinese companies are prevented from (directly) doing so.
A Western ‘clean’ Internet might start out as just keeping a select number of questionable tech out but I’m sure censorship will soon slowly creep in and control of that could end up in private hands not just governments, both likely with little oversight.
All this will likely do is restrict 'normal' users. Anyone vaguely tech-savvy will bypass whatever means they put in place. TOR, VPNs, a.n.other Next Big Thing. These aren't complicated.
You can't ban encryption. The knowledge is in the public domain, even if you were to magically make all encryption programs go away it'd be the work of minutes to recreate. It'd be like trying to ban French.
You could block transmission of secure traffic, and I wouldn't put that past a government who once thought that an IP address related to Intellectual Property. But that would be very, very bad. Like, banks crashing bad. And you can forget working from home.
There is a thing called "deep packet inspection" which can attempt to guess what payloads encrypted traffic might contain. But that is (both financially and computationally) expensive, it's plausible to do it for individually targeted users but to do it on a mass scale would require a staggering amount of investment.