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It’s called the Mogwai effect.
you should make a youtube video about it drac, itll be come fact then !
Already did Trail_rat.
Think you may have to do some reading around ketosis. Are you confused with Ketoacidosis?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ketosis
Longer-term ketosis may result from fasting or staying on a low-carbohydrate diet (ketogenic diet), and deliberately induced ketosis serves as a medical intervention for various conditions, such as intractable epilepsy, and the various types of diabetes.<sup id="cite_ref-6" class="reference">[6]</sup> In glycolysis, higher levels of insulin promote storage of body fat and block release of fat from adipose tissues, while in ketosis, fat reserves are readily released and consumed.<sup id="cite_ref-ncbi.nlm.nih.gov_5-1" class="reference">[5]</sup><sup id="cite_ref-7" class="reference">[7]</sup> For this reason, ketosis is sometimes referred to as the body's "fat burning" mode.<sup id="cite_ref-8" class="reference">[8]</sup>
Metabolic adaptation at birth.
By the 6th postnatal day, although breast-fed and formula-fed babies have the same pattern of glucose response to feed, the former show significantly higher ketone body concentrations and lower insulin responses.<sup>42</sup> These findings do not simply reflect an active ketogenic response to lower blood glucose concentrations found in breast-fed infants, but suggest a direct ketogenic effect of breast milk – for example by virtue of its lipase content allowing improved delivery of fatty acids to the liver. The findings may also reflect the suppressive effect of the unphysiological protein, fat and energy load provided to the formula-fed infant in the first few days after birth. Of note, breast-fed infants with prolonged between-feed intervals of up to 8 h did not show excessively low blood glucose concentrations and indeed had some of the highest ketone body concentrations in the study by Hawdon et al
https://www.healthline.com/health/ketosis-vs-ketoacidosis#ketosis
Ketosis is the presence of ketones. It’s not harmful.
You can be in ketosis if you’re on a low-carbohydrate diet or fasting, or if you’ve consumed too much alcohol. If you’re in ketosis, you have a higher than usual level of ketones in your blood or urine, but not high enough to cause acidosis. Ketones are a chemical your body produces when it burns stored fat.
Postnatal metabolic adaptation in full-term neonate is characterized by vigorous ketogenesis
Preterm and IUGR infants may demonstrate impairment of counter-regulatory ketogenesis
Feeding – particularly with breast milk – augments ketogenic ability
There's overwhelming evidence that babies breastfeeding are in ketosis
trickydisco
I understand the difference. Ketosis is the presence of excessive ketones in the body caused by starvation, fasting, alcohol binging and uncontrolled diabetes. Ketoacidocis is when the levels are so high as to overwhelm homeostasis and cause the blood PH to alter. The first is harmful if prolonged, the second dangerous and life threatening. Ketosis is the first stage on the way to ketoacidosis.
I didn't know that about babies - I thought the reference I replied to was that the mother went into ketosis when breastfeeding - as does happen when the mother is malnourished. so I answered the wrong question.
There is no doubt at all from the actual evidence that ketotic diets are potentially harmful with little benefit.
It's weird that the body would store bodyfat so readily, when actually using it puts us into such a dangerous state. 🤔
"It’s weird that the body would store bodyfat so readily, when actually using it puts us into such a dangerous state. "
your looking at a solution rather than the cause .
I seem to have logged in to Instagram.
It’s weird that the body would store bodyfat so readily, when actually using it puts us into such a dangerous state.
See other myths such as lactic acid and hyperkalemia.
As we are just dropping random links...
got anything thats not from vested evangalists ?
i put it to you that those committed enough to this are just generally achieving their results through good old committed hard work and are gaining the marginal left overs via occasional fasted efforts perhaps.
this will not turn the average(or even above average as its quite a low bar ;)) STW rider into a riding god no matter how many youtube videos you post.
I know your keyboards broken but go look up Burkes study.
Unlike anything Dr phinney produces it was not researched with the outcome already predetermined.
He's quite commonly called out on that.
oh and it doesn't come in shouty American format im afraid
Dr phinney
~short sleeve shirt with a pen in the pocket? = nerd
Dr phinney
Also a bit of a belly and not "Ripped"
tjagain
Lots of pseudo science around this. Most of it utter bollox. Have a read round the peer reviewed literature for the dangers including increased risk of cardivascular disease, insulin resistance, non alchol fatty liver disease and that the weight loss effects like with all fad diets are only temporary.
Just searching for keto diet recipes and this thread popped up again.
Anyway I thought you would be interested in this
https://www.cell.com/cell-metabolism/fulltext/S1550-4131(18)30054-8
I particularly like their take on Vitruvian Man 🙂
Interesting article (skimmed the abstract).
I thought they'd somehow got hold of my dating profile pic at first
Looking at that 7 and a half secrets thing it seems they are confusing shredded abs with a big knife.
I'm the OP and then abandoned the thread in the face of predictable nonsense.
I'll let the majority of TJagain's rationalist dogma go unchallenged (because life is short), other than to ask how his fervent belief in science accounts for the Ancell Keys debacle that has fueled the obesity epidemic...?
Science is important, of course, but in the area of nutrition (like any other) it's wise to a) remain open to alternative interpretations b) question the forces behind the science and c) make your own decisions.
Anyways, in my n=1 study of the non-dairy, restricted meat ketogenic diet, I can report positive results. Some weight has been shed, but the benefits for me have been:
*Better and more stable energy throughout the day
*Better sleep
*Elimination of headaches
*Better performance on the bike, and faster recovery from tough rides
*Improved blood chemistry - specifically (and most pleasingly) my c-reactive inflammation marker is incredibly low (0.2), which means that if I was a dog my nose would be cold and wet.
Overall I think it's been a great experiment and having read extensively on the subject - including scientists (proper ones, not armchair ones) - I will be continuing to eat this way and refine my approach to wring out further incremental gains for myself.
I will also continue to point, then giggle and laugh at those who talk about the burning of fat being a dangerous metabolic state to put yourself into.
Science is important, of course, but in the area of nutrition (like any other) it’s wise to a) remain open to alternative interpretations b) question the forces behind the science and c) make your own decisions.
Science is open to alternative interpretations. That's how science works.
Unless you're being force fed, or your parents are telling you what to do, surely everyone makes their own decisions about what they eat?
Unless you’re being force-fed, or your parents are telling you what to do, surely everyone makes their own decisions about what they eat?
That's not an unreasonable assumption...but food and diet and eating patterns are weirdly inflaming for many people (see the rest of this thread) and dogma comes to the fore.
Happily, I found that I am free to make the informed choice to happily ignore official (and IMHO bullsh*t) official dietary guidelines in the UK.
Official dietary guidelines appear to be like fashion. Continuously changing but then the old stuff come back round again. We are currently in a sugar is bad, fat is good period. I'm in no doubt it will change again before long.
Reading this at the moment
Written by Dr Feiman who is a professor of biochemstry who has studied nutrition and metabolism, diet composition and energy balance.
The first is harmful if prolonged, the second dangerous and life threatening. Ketosis is the first stage on the way to ketoacidosis.
I didn’t know that about babies – I thought the reference I replied to was that the mother went into ketosis when breastfeeding – as does happen when the mother is malnourished. so I answered the wrong question.
There is no doubt at all from the actual evidence that ketotic diets are potentially harmful with little benefit.
and I know TJ is talking bobbins a lot of the time
TJ:
Lots of pseudo science around this. Most of it utter bollox. Have a read round the peer reviewed literature for the dangers including increased risk of cardivascular disease, insulin resistance, non alchol fatty liver disease and that the weight loss effects like with all fad diets are only temporary.
Yep. I have
Long-term effects of a ketogenic diet in obese patients
The present study shows the beneficial effects of a long-term ketogenic diet. It significantly reduced the body weight and body mass index of the patients. Furthermore, it decreased the level of triglycerides, LDL cholesterol and blood glucose, and increased the level of HDL cholesterol. Administering a ketogenic diet for a relatively longer period of time did not produce any significant side effects in the patients. Therefore, the present study confirms that it is safe to use a ketogenic diet for a longer period of time than previously demonstrated.
Long term effects of ketogenic diet in obese subjects with high cholesterol level.
This study shows the beneficial effects of ketogenic diet following its long term administration in obese subjects with a high level of total cholesterol. Moreover, this study demonstrates that low carbohydrate diet is safe to use for a longer period of time in obese subjects with a high total cholesterol level and those with normocholesterolemia.
Relative to the LFHC group, the HFLC group had greater improvements in blood lipids and systemic inflammation with similar changes in body weight and composition. This small-scale study suggests that HFLC diets may be more beneficial to cardiovascular health and inflammation in free-living obese adults compared to LFHC diets.
Can you explain why a high fat diet or the presence of ketones in the body present risks around cardivascular disease, insulin resistance, non alcohol fatty liver disease?
If you read about human metabolism you'll realise it's carbohydrates that trigger insulin and leads to insulin resistance. Also if you are on high carbohydrate diet you are also on a high fat one because the body will convert it to fat (triglycerides)
relunctantlondoner
Yes i think so. He covers a lot of material form the basics upwards. Human metabolism is very complex but he comes at it from an scientific point of view breaking down what actually happens in this process and how and why nutritional studies and diet are fraught with politics and bad science
and good work on the diet and results!