[Closed] Increased use of dashboard and helmet cams?

I always thought it displayed a certain amount of paranoia.

[i]a certain amount of paranoia. [/i]

Just 'cos I'm paranoid doesn't mean they're not out to get me.

(Woody Allen?)

I think that if everyone thinks their every action is being filmed then, for a while behaviour will be moderated. After a while everyone gets used to it and it's carnage as usual.

(Woody Allen?)

Kurt Cobain 🙂

Article in yesterday's Guardian Bike Blog:
http://www.guardian.co.uk/environment/bike-blog/2012/feb/22/youtube-justice-road-rage-victims

I certainly know folk who wish they'd been wearing a camera when they were victims of road rage. Can help prosecute yes, but can also calm the situation down when someone knows they are being filmed and will be held accountable.

but can also calm the situation down when someone knows they are being filmed and will be held accountable.

This would be a happy result.

Next version of Jeremy Kyle/ Beadle/ YBF?

can also calm the situation down when someone knows they are being filmed and will be held accountable.

Can also inflame the situation. Depends on the nutter. I can see a few cameras being ripped off peoples heads and smashed on the ground potentially.

I hope it does the job. I started using a camera on my commute for this very reason and it's like they know. With a camera fitted, I rarely have problems. Take it off and all mayhem breaks loose.

this is a good link from the guardian page:

http://www.youtube.com/metpoliceservice#p/c/17/uPkbNFt5NuY

There are alot of these videos where the cyclist is antagonistic in the way that they ride or their reactions. Chasing down cars and swerving, shouting at drivers etc. Even if they are in the right it is crazy to agravate a potentially violent situation.
I can see the day when camera's and black boxes are fitted on cars by default. Insurance companies would surely be in favour of this.

cameras in cars is coming for sure. can't come soon enough for me.

I can see the day when camera's and black boxes are fitted on cars by default

Plenty of insurance companies already offering discounted insurance to drivers willing to have black boxes fitted. The next step will be to make non-discounted insurance unaffordable.

There are alot of these videos where the cyclist is antagonistic in the way that they ride or their reactions. Chasing down cars and swerving, shouting at drivers etc. Even if they are in the right it is crazy to agravate a potentially violent situation.

Considering the volume of 'incidents' that certain individuals upload to YouTube, I am convinced that some (I said [i]some[/i]) cyclists unneccesarily allow situations to develop, where most normal people would just take a more evasive riding style ... I'm sure I could create issues if I was absolutely hell-bent on bloody-mindedly asserting my right to be on the road at all costs just to make a point.

"I'd rather be right than alive" is a term that springs to mind after seeing some head cam footages.

However, it is encouraging that motorists are being prosecuted for dangerous driving or public disorder offences due to head-cam evidence.

[i] I am convinced that some (I said some) cyclists unneccesarily allow situations to develop[/i]

I am convinced you're an idiot. (Not really, but just making a point).
The incidents provoke the use of cameras, not the other way round.

The reason there are more cameras around is obvious (they are so cheap now). I've actually stopped using mine, as my new commute, though longer, is on more back roads and incidents are few and far between.
Maybe I should go looking for some eh? 🙄

I think it's more that [i]some[/i] folk have had enough and prefer to challenge dangerous driving and bad attitudes, rather than letting it slide.

They are definitely the militant wing. I roll my eyes at some of those videos, but to be honest I think we do need someone pushing back. They certainly seem to raise the profile - seen a few of them covered in mainstream news.

I do think the more militant "try and re-educate all drivers" approach is a little counter productive, but there has been probably 2-3 times in the last 10 years when a camera would have been very useful.

It won't be long before cars have cameras in as standard anyway. BMW already puts them in 7 series for detecting pedestrians stepping out, i think Honda do a top-down projection mapping for reversing cameras. Since lost have GPS too, black box type devices aren't a massive leap.

Rather too Orwellian and Foucauldian for my liking.

Something to hide Capt?

samuri - Member

I hope it does the job. I started using a camera on my commute for this very reason and it's like they know. With a camera fitted, I rarely have problems. Take it off and all mayhem breaks loose.

<ponders the market opportunity for fake helmet cams to dispel road rage incidents>
...
<checks prices and realises some helmet cams are already cheap as chips>
...
<resigns himself to not becoming a millionaire just yet>

Rather too Orwellian and Foucauldian for my liking.

Was just thinking the same.

The incidents provoke the use of cameras, not the other way round.

There's a douchebag who posts almost daily videos on youtube showing "incidents" yet he cycles the exact same roads as me, yet somehow my cycle manages to be incident free.

Some people intentionally go looking for trouble to somehow validate their otherwise miserable lives.

Some people intentionally go looking for trouble to somehow validate their otherwise miserable lives.

"To a man with a hammer, everything looks like a nail"

Russia is the current leader for dashboard cams, insurance scam avoidance.
[url= http://jalopnik.com/5886439/watch-the-ten-best-russian-dashcam-videos/gallery/1 ]Jalopnic[/url]
No.9 is something......

DezB - Member
Something to hide Capt?

Yep.

Camera on my dash, mainly as a way of giving me a fighting chance in case I am involved in an incident. Plenty of serial swervers on mopeds causing me to hold back and pay extra attention to them. Plenty of faster cyclists wanting to pull out to pass slower cyclists on 1 tricky junction. Plenty of peds that seem to go "oh I'll just quickly cross the road in front of this car"... YES! including colleagues leaving work to cross the road to the other carpark... in high heel shoes... in the snow, FFS! Also plenty of drivers cutting back in on the autobahn, with absolutely no sense of the length of the car they are driving, pulling back in so close I couldn't see the reg. plate.

I'd rather have one potential piece of evidence in my favour, and not just the automatic presumption of guilt by bystanders acting as witnesses that probably didn't actually see the incident.

Don't really ride on road much (2x 5mins to get to the forest for MTBing). Don't want a helmet cam for that, cos I'd probably do stupid things and break bones.

[img] [/img]
[url= http://dogcamsport.co.uk/drive-recorders.html ]RoadHawk system for cars/vans etc[/url] - records video, audio, GPS and G-force. from £200

Will be interesting to see how any people want cameras/gps in cars until the insurance company decides it was their fault for the accident and get a reduced payout....

my favourite one is the guy who has numberplate tourettes and just records himself shouting out numberplates of vehicles he believes to be driving badly

I do believe there is an element of Maslow's Hammer in those that choose to record their journeys, but then that's perhaps because they have been wronged by a driver at some point on a commute

my favourite one is the guy who has numberplate tourettes and just records himself shouting out numberplates of vehicles he believes to be driving badly

Erm... most of the sensible ones do that. There is no guarantee that the number plate will be readable on the video and they want a record of it so they can A) name and shame on YouTube and B) report it to the police or RoadSafe where appropriate.

Can't wait until the first cyclist gets done for RLJ-ing, pavement riding or yellow box-ing 😆

I am convinced that some (I said some) cyclists unneccesarily allow situations to develop

I think it's more that some folk have had enough and prefer to challenge dangerous driving and bad attitudes, rather than letting it slide.

If traffics moving fast and things could go downhill very quickly I'll back down pretty quick but if someone's tailgating me or trying to intimidate me into moving by driving close to me at slow speed where I figure if it goes pear shaped I've still got a safe "out" I'll hold my ground.

I don't have a camera and I don't go looking for trouble, I just won't always be intimidated by some nobber just coz he's in a tin box.

@ Samurai

Could you tell me what cam you are using.

Given my commute - its only a matter of time before I need some evidence.

Thanks

Plum

they want a record of it so they can A) name and shame on YouTube and B) report it to the police or RoadSafe where appropriate

I fully understand and support B)

But I just don't get A) - why post it on YouTube? What good's that going to do, other than if you're a bit of an attention whore?

But I just don't get A) - why post it on YouTube? What good's that going to do, other than if you're a bit of an attention whore?

Edit I think there's some notion that a database of bad drivers may develop but I bet most posters just want a "woah what a dick that driver was in that clip" comment to make them feel a little better about nearly getting hurt.

But I just don't get A) - why post it on YouTube? What good's that going to do

Anyone googling the numberplate (the driver, employer, insurance, prospective buyer, other road users he/she has abused) will find the video.

It has resulted in convictions in the past.

It's part of a bigger campaign of highlighting bad driving.

Some of the helmet camera wearers seem to go out of their way to get footage that will get them more hits on youtube.

There are even a couple who have managed to monetised filming their commute - getting free kit to try out, getting paid for articles etc. No problems with that as such but there then becomes an incentive to ride in such a way that provides 'interesting' footage.

I'm not one for cctv and our willingness to film each other could be the end of a thick wedge . How long before the cameras are compulsory and images uploaded to some central computer.
I wonder how keen we will be when our cameras dob us in for going through that yellow light.

There are even a couple who have managed to monetised filming their commute

Who's that then?

gaz something or other in london and magnumtom in glasgow

zippykona - givent eh number of people killed on the roads and the appalling standards of driving I am quite content to have dashboard cameras of the type above put in all cars. they only record the few seconds before impact - that will do for me

there then becomes an incentive to ride in such a way that provides 'interesting' footage

[i]there then becomes an incentive to ride in such a way that provides 'interesting' footage[/i]

I think "Facepalm" is the expression I'm looking for.

gaz something or other in london and magnumtom in glasgow

[url= http://www.youtube.com/user/CycleGaz ]CycleGaz[/url] - the bloke that runs http://www.sillycyclists.co.uk/ and who appeared in The Times #cyclesafe campaign?

And [url= http://www.youtube.com/user/magnatom ]magnatom[/url], the shouty doctor, who I've seen [url= http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LmN1WAUjOcE ]interviewed on Scottish News[/url] and has a blog http://www.magnatom.net/

Don't see how either are making any money from it to be honest.

[i]CycleGaz - the bloke that runs http://www.sillycyclists.co.uk/ and who appeared in The Times #cyclesafe campaign[/i]

Did he? Jeez, that'll do our cause loads of good. I saw a couple of his videos a while ago and thought "What a c***"

FFS! I bet the insurance company will be the first to approve all these measures to squeeze every drop out of your hard earn money. They are ridiculous ...

We are in a zombie world so loosing a few zombies are of no concern. I mean shoot a few car drivers ...

Did he?

Yep, 30s-1:50 in the main Times campaign video here:
http://www.thetimes.co.uk/tto/public/cyclesafety/article3306502.ece

Comes across as a perfectly reasonable bloke to be honest.

Jeez, that'll do our cause loads of good.

He runs a blog to educate cyclists about avoidable dangers on the road, a YouTube channel to highlight bad driving, appeared in a national campaign and local news to discuss the issues.

Sounds like he's doing a lot more for "our cause" than most of us.

Still came across as a c***. Actually he's probably a STWer, blaming all the problems on the road on the cyclists.

Nothing, including Cams, will stop the real nutters. The sort of people who do things outside police stations without realising that they are outside police staions for example. But I think it could be a usefull deterent to the sort of person who thinks that because he/she is late for work, anything goes.

Those russian clips are quite entertaining - in a "I'm glad it wasn't me" sort of way.

blaming all the problems on the road on the cyclists.

Actually that is very clearly [u]not[/u] what he does, but for some reason you've decided not to like him so I don't suppose I'll persuade you otherwise.

dezb - but you think bikes should ride in the gutter and get out of the way of traffic!

SST - what cams will do is allow blame to be sorted out more fairly. When you have video footage of a crash its easy to see who is at fault

[i]dezb - but you think bikes should ride in the gutter and get out of the way of traffic![/i]

Show me ONE single quote where I tell ANYONE where they should ride. Go on.

Can't find any dez but have you not advocated not using the primary position as it blocks car drivers?

No.

Ok.

3 of mine.

Nowadays most buses and coaches have cctv cameras, filming inside and out , back and front as well as sides of the vehicles, to stop fraudulent claims by others.

TandemJeremy - Member
what cams will do is allow blame to be sorted out more fairly.

So, hypothetically speaking, say a clearly identifiable cyclist was filmed RLJing but the footage only showed the J and not the threat to the cyclists safety which "justified" the J.
Should this cyclist be happy to hold his hands up to the offence on the basis of this (perhaps non contextual) video evidence ?

Not in Scotland no - as here you need two bits of evidence to prosecute 🙂

OK so in "some" instances, having a camera won't help, but that's the same with anything?

I know it was CCTV rather than a dash/helmet cam, but how do you think that guy who was deliberatly knocked off his bike by a bus would have fared had there been no footage?

edit: did the bus have a camera on board too?

I have a dash cam, have been using it religiously over the last 18 months or so at work (much less so at home as I do less miles and the windscreen mount is rubbish)

I wasn't an arrogant driver before, but its a reminder to back off or stop trying to look for an overtake when you do get impatient with a plodding numpty ahead. Also makes you think twice about creeping over a 30mph limit as if the Satnav is on it stamps your speed onto the video.

Didn't cost me anything, its just my smartphone with 'Dailyroads Voyager' App installed. It records in a loop unless you or an impact signals it to save a clip.

Only real points it has caught so far is a driver that managed to miss me (my white Transit luton) and pulled straight out across my path, that was a little scary, a boy racer that pulled across my lane 1 of a dual carriageway from a side road, but couldn't get out of the way as he wanted to queue in lane 2 and there was no gap, and a Jag I narrowly avoided rear ended after he slowed down suddenly, the gap between us naturally closed as I braked, and then as I increased the gap he noticed a level crossing was coming down so he swung into a side road to divert, but left it so late he crossed onto the wrong side of the road and had to jump on the brakes before he hit some bollards on a traffic island, leaving his rear end sticking out into the main road. I'd like to think that what would normally be my fault, would go the other way as his standard of driving on the video was clearly a large factor. Oh, and someone who drifted out of their lane whilst passing me on a dual and nearly took my front bumper off, and then gave me the finger when I flashed him 🙂

It seems attaching a cam to yourself for the commute results in excessive hand wringing and reflecting on stuff you wouldn't have previously noticed or forgotten about by the time you got off them bike; each to their own I guess.

Plenty of insurance companies already offering discounted insurance to drivers willing to have black boxes fitted.

Who's doing it now? What kind of discount do they give?

Been a couple of lesser known companies doing it for a while. See http://www.comparethebox.com/ & http://www.fairpayinsurance.co.uk/

But the AA and DirectLine have recently started doing it too:
http://www.guardian.co.uk/money/2012/feb/10/car-insurance-aa-black-box
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/personalfinance/insurance/motorinsurance/8876522/Direct-Line-to-trial-black-box-technology-to-cut-motor-insurance-premiums.html

Actual discount is based on "live" information the receive about your driving style!

Plenty of insurance companies already offering discounted insurance to drivers willing to have black boxes fitted.

Eventually, this will just become mandatory for insurance purposes and there won't be any discount.

Think the black boxes are being trialled for younger drivers to reduce their premiums.

Wouldn't be shocked if it became 'optional' for most drivers. It would have to save me a significant amount to consider it.