[Closed] In What Sports do Men & Women Compete Equally?

Bowls

Match fishing

mixed singles

Horsey stuff - showjumping and all that.

showjumping, eventing, motor racing

I can't see why darts and shooting type stuff should be split.

frizbee iirc

Ski jumping, although women were banned on safety grounds as we didn't want them hurting themselves, that and they'd win every time apparently due to a weight advantage.

Sailing has a open class at the olympics (49er IIRC, and I don't think it's the only open class, for some reason I think Laser might be too) but so far I don't think there's been a mixed crew yet.

passive aggressiveness.

I can't see why darts and shooting type stuff should be split

I was almost going to ask "are there any sports that are male/female segregated for no apparent reason?" ..

Triathlon, well more Ironman really or should that be Ironperson.

England's Chrissie Wellington "chicked" most men at Challenge Roth this year coming in 6th overall, iirc.

Bridge

Women compete in target rifle competition with men, but there are additional womens prizes I seem to recall.

If you class events according to stamina/endurance/power/speed then there's probably going to be segregation for overwhelmingly physiological reasons.

I was almost going to ask "are there any sports that are male/female segregated for no apparent reason?" ..

"mixed singles" ?? The mind truly does boggle. Some kind of hermaphrodite ??

synchronized swimming

chess

Triathlon, well more Ironman really or should that be Ironperson.

England's Chrissie Wellington "chicked" most men at Challenge Roth this year coming in 6th overall, iirc

Chrissie is ridiculously good, but women and men don't compete directly in Ironman, there are mens and womens categories. That she is so good that she is faster than most of the male competitors doesn't change that.

Golf?

"mixed singles" ?? The mind truly does boggle. Some kind of hermaphrodite ??

oh yes - forget to add

Boggling

"Chrissie is ridiculously good, but women and men don't compete directly in Ironman, there are mens and womens categories. That she is so good that she is faster than most of the male competitors doesn't change that."

Sorry disagree

The overall classification, which is the first classification any amateur, so I guess pro, would look at... says she is 6th.

There is usually a combined results list showing everyone, with an M&F against them, but there are generally separate prizes for the first 3 men, and the first 3 women.

They race on the same course at the same time, but for separate prizes, so it's not truly combined. Looking at the results for Challenge Roth [url= http://roth.r.mikatiming.de/2011/index.php?pid=search ]here[/url] it shows Chrissie as being 1st, despite coming in after the first men, and there are clearly separate results for men and women. In the summary results she was 5th over all, but there's no award for that. Even if she's been 2nd she'd have only got the prize for 1st woman.

Chrissie would've been 28th at the IM Worlds this year had she raced against the men.

Chrissie is ridiculously good, but women and men don't compete directly in Ironman, there are mens and womens categories. That she is so good that she is faster than most of the male competitors doesn't change that.

wot njee said ^

However, one of the things that pisses me off no end is that prize allocation when you have vet classes.
Mrs S competes in V40 class, but will often win or place in local races. However if she comes in second they give her the V40 prize, not the 2nd prize (Open). Sometimes it doesnt really matter - but it's royally shite, when the second prize itself (say a trinket and a £20 voucher) is greater in value or size than the vet prize that she is awarded.

Also, it sometimes happens that if you have 1st, 2nd and 3rd place all going to V40 women, then the 1st prize open goes to P1, the V40 prize goes to P2 and the P3 gets nothing - the 2nd prize open being awarded to the first non V40 runner to cross the line - which can be several places back and slower than the 3rd position runner.

Stoner - your Mrs should act her age.. obviously.

Difficult one that though Stoner, you've entered a certain category, you can't really expect the prizes from others, although it could be seen as a bit off if they award first to the first finisher, but understandable. 1st is 1st sort of thing.

To give it an MTB analogy, which could be particularly valid in women's fields because they're small. If you enter a 'fun women' team in a 24, but there are only 2 'expert women' teams - should you also get the prize for being 3rd expert? Not really, you should've entered expert.

If your Mrs wants 2nd in Open, enter Open.

Ice skating

You cant enter "open" if you are classed as Vet by british athletics.

Remember the Vet class is a "handicap" compensator. If you dont need the handicap the automatic assumption should be that youve competed at the open level.

There's also usually a rule that you only win one "prize". Its the prize ranking that I object to.

"Chrissie is ridiculously good, but women and men don't compete directly in Ironman, there are mens and womens categories. That she is so good that she is faster than most of the male competitors doesn't change that."

I have absolutely no idea who chrissy is but its not important where she's finished. Or if one woman is particularly outstanding.

Surely what would be important is the average of say the top 50-100 males and top 50-100 females.

If the average speed of of the females is considerably slower, theres probably some statistic like 2 standard deviations difference from the males then they need to be classed separately.

I would imagine in most sports your'll occasionally get one woman who is much better than the others and I've guessing some where along the line they probably have very high testorone level or some kind of inter-sex disorder, like that south african runner.

I take it back then if you don't have the choice. Although I imagine you could appeal to the BTF for an Open license, or just ask the question when you enter the individual event.

Paul Hopkins is a vet, with a vets BCF licence, but races Elite at the Southern XCs, which are BCF sanctioned.

If you dont need the handicap the automatic assumption should be that youve competed at the open level.

I don't it's fair to pick and choose though - 'I'll enter as a vet, if I win the open hooray, otherwise I just win the vets'. Choose one or the other. Otherwise I think it's a bit like my 24 hour analogy, you can't really choose the best outcome for you after the fact.

Whilst I dont deny that that south african "woman" looks terrifying, you cant tell me that the rather feminine, elegant Paul "mother of two" Radcliffe has "very high testorone level or some kind of inter-sex disorder,"

Wow! your missus is over forty and handicapped and she still manages to place in open events! That's a truly inspirational story, unless of course she has bionic legs or arms or something like Lindsay Wagner

Paula is rather beautiful isn't she?

thisisnotaspoon - Member
Golf?

Different tee off points...

you're aware of the other definitions of "handicap" arent you?

Or did you just go for that one for comedic effect?

handicap [han-dee-kap] ?
Origin
hand·i·cap? ?[han-dee-kap] Show IPA noun, verb, -capped, -cap·ping.
noun
1.
a race or other contest in which certain disadvantages or advantages of weight, distance, time, etc., are placed upon competitors to equalize their chances of winning.
2.
the disadvantage or advantage itself.
3.
any disadvantage that makes success more difficult: The main handicap of our business is lack of capital.
4.
a physical or mental disability making participation in certain of the usual activities of daily living more difficult.

[b]any disadvantage that makes success more difficult: The main handicap of our business is lack of capital.[/b]

+

http://www.goodrunguide.co.uk/AgeGrading.asp

Women and men compete both together (ie mixed crews) and against each other in Ocean yacht racing.

If the average speed of of the females is considerably slower, theres probably some statistic like 2 standard deviations difference from the males then they need to be classed separately.

She finished the Ironman World Champs just under an hour behind the winning man, so just over 10% slower, but still ahead of a lot of the men. There are similar margins in plenty of other sports.

I don't think it's a case of being within x distance of the men, they're just separate, full stop. Casta Samenya (sp?) may look like a man, but she's not been [i]that[/i] dominant.

Should Usain Bolt have his own category altogether? As he's better than all the other men? Sebastian Loeb? Sebastian Vettel? Roger Federer?

i will go out on a limb and say it was humour.

however PC we may wish to be men are physcially stronger /bigger whatever than women.
I am not sure if men always out perform women in skill based sports though.
What about Curling?
Bowls
Dancing?
Gymnastics - they dont compete side by side but are they better?
Diving?? no idea

Gymnastics they do different events though don't they? Men don't do the dancey floor stuff, women don't do the rings.

Golf?

Nope.
Different competitions, different tees, different governing bodies. Different class as well, a few of the very best women over the years have tried to compete with the men and never gotten close to even the journeyman pros, let alone the best.

At an amateur level you can compete with women, but only in specific mixed comps, and you'll still be playing off different tees.

"Chrissie is ridiculously good, but women and men don't compete directly in Ironman, there are mens and womens categories. That she is so good that she is faster than most of the male competitors doesn't change that."

Sorry disagree

As is your right. You'll be wrong though.

Should Usain Bolt have his own category altogether? As he's better than all the other men? Sebastian Loeb? Sebastian Vettel? Roger Federer?

They all ready do, most of us mortals with more average physical attributes just turn up for a gorrick once in a while or a friendly 5 a side.

For me the only 'proper' sport they really compete fully against us would be the equestrian ones, especially Eventing.

My wife does this, scares the crap outta me...

[IMG] [/IMG]

They all ready do, most of us mortals with more average physical attributes just turn up for a gorrick once in a while or a friendly 5 a side.

No, but you were saying that a (significantly) above average woman should be classified separately from the others. Shouldn't the same be the case with men? I'm not comparing Jim down the pub to Wayne Rooney, I mean Vettel vs the rest of the F1 field. It'd be more interesting if he (or rather his car) wasn't there.

For me the only 'proper' sport they really compete fully against us would be the equestrian ones, especially Eventing.

Horse Trials is rubbish though - not a single back-hop or 360 in sight...

I used to do a lot of target rifle shooting. Ladies often win the events there.
I believe the olympics is separated into m/f which seems a bit daft as there is really no reason why men and women shouldn't compete shoulder to shoulder.

the queens prize is mixed isnt it NRTom?

“As is your right. You'll be wrong though. “

How so?

She raced the same course at the same time. Overtaking and beating x number of men as she did so.

How has she not competed against them and come 6th/5th whatever it was.

And as she went past those fellas she beat, I bet each and every one of them thought/said to themselves.... Bollox just dropped a place... and then checked her bum out.

I bet each and every one of them thought, Bollox just dropped a place.

No they didnt, because theyre not competing in the same race.

OTOH they would have thought "Bollox, just got chicked!"
🙂

"No they didnt, because theyre not competing in the same race."

I doubt that very much.

All I can say is when I'm racing, which is very much in the middle of the pack, I dont want ANYONE coming past.

How so?

She raced the same course at the same time. Overtaking and beating x number of men as she did so.

How has she not competed against them and come 6th/5th whatever it was.

And as she went past those fellas she beat, I bet each and every one of them thought, Bollox just dropped a place.

Because they're not racing against her... There may be a big list of results lumping all the categories together, but they're not all competing aginst each other - that's why there's a 'category' column... It's no different to any event which has a big list of results - again look at a distance/time based MTB event.

As has been said, she's a superb athlete (although I reckon Julie Dibens could have her) but she isn't as good as the top men, and she doens't race them.

Also don't the Male and female competitors start in different waves?

Depends on the event, but yes at many top level ones they will do.

Stoner - aye the Queen's isn't separated. My friend Jo won it in 2000. She was the second lass ever to win it, and it's been going since 1860! Surprised there haven't been more to be honest.

Guess I not explaining my thinking very well

Sorry last time I'll post (because I'm boring myself now)

I struggle to beleive any Elite or indeed amateur racer is happy to see someone go past them when on the same course at the same time.

So while technical she may not be competing against the men. To her, to them and the wider watching world she HAS beaten them. And if you have beaten someone surely you must have been competing with them on an equal basis.

So, as others have said, yes in the sense of competing at the same time and the same place, they are competing. But not from an actual competitive perspective. And she's famous for being 4 times Ironman World Champion, that excludes men, so no, to the "wider watching world" she doesn't race against them, I've never heard her reported as being 28th in the World Champs...

If I'm in a race and overtake a woman I don't think "wehay, gained a place", I think "there's someone I'm not racing". I don't quote race results based on everyone who competed - just those in my own race.

Id disagree ro5ey.

A competitor with a race plan for example will be running their race specifically against the course and the known competitors in their class, not against all other competitors in the event. This is especially true over a marathon distance where you might well be happy to be overtaken early on because you're running to your race plan and expect to haul back the place later maybe with even splits or neg splits.

This is especially true over a marathon distance

Even more so in multi-sport events...

I understand your logic Ro5ey, and yes she has "beaten" them. But she wasn't [i]competing[/i] against them as Triathlon remains a sport segregated by gender.
And for good reason - she is an outstanding once in a generation athlete, but against the men she is an also ran, and that wouldn't be right.

Same as Paula Radcliffe - she was (still is?) the fastest Brit over the marathon but she doesn't compete directly with men.

The fastest Britain is Steve Jones, 2:07,13. Radcliffe did beat all the British men one year in the London Marathon which may be what you meant.

You cant enter "open" if you are classed as Vet by british athletics.

Remember the Vet class is a "handicap" compensator. If you dont need the handicap the automatic assumption should be that youve competed at the open level.

There's also usually a rule that you only win one "prize". Its the prize ranking that I object to.

You can still simply not tick the box on the form that says you are a Vet however there is little incentive. Most organisers allow you to choose the best prize. I finished in the prizes overall in a 5m road race but was also first Vet. They let me choose the best, which was nice of them!

I struggle to beleive any Elite or indeed amateur racer is happy to see someone go past them when on the same course at the same time.

You have to be realistic and its a waste of enery fighting battles you cant win. When I was younger my aim was to be at the front or as near as I could possibly get. I am in the V45 age group now so I have to be realistic (although high placed finishes are not out of the question) I have to be aware of whos around me and try to win my category if possible.

and extending the MTB analogy - if you were competing in the solo 24hr SS class, would you really care if you were overtaken by a geared fresh-as-a-daisy team rider?

Has nobody mentioned water sports yet.?

Surely that's generally between consenting members of the opposite sex, although I didn't realise it was that sort of discussion 😯