The best thing you can do if you hate this sort of thing is to simply find your local sab (disrupt) and monitor (observe and record) groups and donate a bit of cash to them. A lot use the ko-fi site for this.
These folk do a fantastic job of preventing the hunt from killing as much as they would like simply by turning up with cameras on and following them relentlessly. Clashes do occur and some of the hunt supports are big strapping farm hands capable of giving someone a big slap, but the presence of cameras and the fact that monitor groups now actively try to work with the police means the hunts often go home empty handed and miserable.
Hate the hunt? Support the sabs!
How so? Genuine question.
Do they then pick up live fix scent and off they go,? Or are they lead towards live foxes?
Usually they do not even bother laying a fox urine trail. Its just a cover for fox hunting. Claiming they are using fox urine to lay trails allows them to continue to train the dogs to follow a foxes scent rather than aniseed so they can continue to hunt foxes
Drag hunting the hounds are trained to follow anniseed so will not pick up a fox scent trail
The local hunt to me were caught on film putting foxes in man made dens to throw to dogs a year or so ago. The hunt were fined 5k, no convictions etc. the law cirtainly needs to change and be updated with more severe consequences.
As a result of the above, the landowner who a significant amount of bad press, banned all foxhunting on his land and, so far, has followed through with that. The hunt were uncontactable for a statement at the time & pretty much threw the landowner under a bus, which I'm sure was part of his reason for banning the hunt. The incident not only damaged the landowners business, but also the the local pub and my shop - we all had a massive down turn In trade.
Unfortunately last week there was a hunt 2miles south of us, just on someone else's land.
Around my way we get the Zetland Hunt.
They park on the grass verges and have spotters scanning the fields.
Some of the residents go out and tell them in pretty blunt language that they are not welcome here.
Nearby is a wetlands area managed by the environment agency. The hunt have been told not to enter the area but they continue anyway. I reported the hunt in the wetlands,on public footpaths,to the agency but the agency said the hunt would not reply to them.
At a nearby castle there is horse racing and the hunt set up a propaganda day with an upper class voice on the tannoy saying that they are nice people really and bring your children to come and see the dogs. We found the atmosphere from the people there a bit unsettling and left quickly.
I'm into field archery. But over the years even shooting at targets of animals both paper/3d's has been a turn off.
Suddenly relised its a bit wierd...odd even.
Only shoot at circles and golf tees, now. Just as much fun.
The so called hunters in the above video.... will they ever be prosecuted, doubt it. 🙁 Any one into foxing or any (pleasure hunting) is a bit fundamently wierd or even phychopathic IMO
I’m into field archery. But over the years even shooting at targets of animals both paper/3d’s has been a turn off.
British Scouts are not allowed to shoot - archery or guns - at targets looking like animals. Not even the dinosaur targets at the World Scout Jamboree in America in 2019.
MCJnr was told that if anyone asked, they were Canadian....
Take a look at most hunt vids and the posh lot mainly just like riding their horses while the people digging out the fox holes and generally being vile are much further down the social chain.
I'm pretty sure the people shown in the 2 incidents of digging out the fixes on CH4 yesterday were in full riding gear as they dug them out but to be honest, I'm not going to look again.
You can report animal crime to The League Against Cruel Sports and if you're minded to, give them a donation. There's lots of useful information on the site and reference to some horrendous activities in the name of "sport".
I’m pretty sure the people shown in the 2 incidents of digging out the fixes on CH4 yesterday were in full riding gear as they dug them out but to be honest, I’m not going to look again.
Thanks for pointing out a small selection of incidents, that you don't fully remember, might contradict my none-absolute statement.
It is mostly an upper-class activity. Because you need masses of land.
Maybe, but the proles have their own entertainment. Round here they show up with quad bikes and set dogs on deer, and livestream the chase on phones. Other proles in nearby towns bet on how long it takes for the dogs to catch a deer. Charming.
Hell, it's not worth it.
Maybe, but the proles have their own entertainment. Round here they show up with quad bikes and set dogs on deer, and livestream the chase on phones. Other proles in nearby towns bet on how long it takes for the dogs to catch a deer
Yeah we've had that.
They went on to a school field and did it here too.
Amazing.
fox hunting and driven grouse shooting are two huge criminal conspiracies.
I think I understand the latter to be using dogs to drive grouse out of the undergrowth so the can be shot. Is your opposition to both the above just based on the shooting aspect, or is there some cruelty involved in the latter like there is in letting dogs tear foxes apart?
The latter is often done to excess. Huge amount of birds driven into the air then blasted to shit, if you drive around the roads of North Yorkshire during shooting seasons, especially the B roads, you see plenty on the roads.
It's for money, very few end up in an oven or a pot.
I think I understand the latter to be using dogs to drive grouse out of the undergrowth so the can be shot.
No its using humans to drive the grouse out of the undergrowth to be shot. NOt particularly or deliberately cruel to the grouse. The criminal activity comes in other areas - like the killing of raptors, like the use of unchecked snares, like the use of larsen traps, like the slaughter of endangered mountain hares, like the overuse of muirburn
Driven grouse moors are a huge criminal conspiracy as they regularly and routinely break the law like the fox hunts do - but different laws
Both fox hunting and driven grouse moor shooting are criminal conspiracies but not the same one - 2 separate criminal conspiracies
Was it 40 million pheasants being released at one time, for shooting season? This means they eat everything that all the other birds would eat
Was in the woods last weekend, maybe 20 cars of fat old guys with shotguns and support trucks. Arent they supposed to put signs up when they do this (on forestry land)?
I dont believe police should be allowed to join hunts, since theyre illegal
A year or two ago one hunt's dog pack had to be put down because they had Bovine TB
I saw a video last month of a sab posting on FB live, asking someone to call the police because some people were digging up badgers for baiting, he had photos of them doing it, but he couldnt call the police himself as they knew he was a sab, and the local police chief was in the hunt
I think I understand the latter to be using dogs to drive grouse out of the undergrowth so the can be shot
Driven grouse shooting is where the shooters are in a line and then beaters + dogs drive the grouse over that line. Unlike walk up shooting (which can also use dogs) it relies on a very high population of grouse (up till the point they get blatted) in order to give the paying guests lots of things to shoot at. Since they cant be bred in captivity this results in pretty extreme measures to ensure normal infant mortality doesnt occur.
As such there is widespread killing of anything considered a threat to them whether thats mountain hares or raptors.
This is leaving aside the more general ecological damage caused by the muirburn in order to provide the best environment for excessive numbers.
@relapsed_mandalorian
The ones on the roads are generally pheasants and sometimes partridge (mostly pheasants since they are the most commonly released and do seem particularly ill adapted to roads).
The numbers of pheasants bred and released is insane. Somewhere between 35-55 million most likely which has a massive impact on the local ecosystems.
You guys should check the Quantocks staghounds as well - another bunch of psychopathic criminals killing deer for fun by chasing them to exhaustion with hounds. there is not even any pretense at utility here. If you want to cull deer its the young females that need tobe killed
a bit hyperbolic in tone but everything they claim is backed up
When I was a young un I got kicked on a Fox hunt because I refused to move my car on a private lane to let the hunt through. A actual riding boot to the head. The land owner hated the hunt and had banned them off his small holdings but they didn't care one jot.
We have a bigger issue with badger baits now they cage them up then let the dogs on them after few days in the cage, after the sport they get tossed on the road to look like road kill.
Fox hunting is on the decline definitely by me. I'm happy to say I know the local lord (an actual one not a Tory doner) no1 son and despite being old money and a huge land owner he is 100% against hunting and won't allow it. shooting is on the rise especially rabbit and hare despite becoming very scarce by me.
It's an emotional issue for me hunts can suck a ****
Oddly I've got friends who shoot pheasants we don't talk about it they also hate hunting with dogs.
More likely a hedge fund manager.<br /><br />
Got to have somewhere for the foxes to hide to make it more exciting for the townies on their hired horses…
Muffin man – point of order. Drag hunting uses aniseed for the dogs to follow – dogs are trained to follow that scent. No foxes get hurt.Trail hunting in theory uses fox urine to lay the scent and in fact is just a cover for killing foxes<br />Trail hunting in theory uses fox urine to lay the scent and in fact is just a cover for killing foxes<br />How so? Genuine question.
Do they then pick up live fix scent and off they go,? Or are they lead towards live foxes?
Read Arthur Ransom’s book ‘Swallowdale’. Drag hunting is described in the story, where the kids in the story suddenly have someone run through the little valley where they’re camping dragging a cloth on a rope, and they tell the kids not to worry, there will be a load of dogs running through following the scent. Bets are laid on the dogs because it’s a race.
Trail hunting is *allegedly* like fox hunting but the hounds follow a fox’s scent on a rag instead of a real animal.
What could possibly go wrong?
I hate animal cruelty, arguably more so than human cruelty. I don't care what anyone else eats, I have a mate who eats what he shoots himself and fair play to him. He was up in Scotland a couple of weeks ago bagging deer where they're considered a pest, stocked up the freezer for months. Does all the wetwork, beginning to end. It's not for me but I can't fault it.
So I wonder idly how many people here being outraged about animal welfare gave much thought as to what they had for tea tonight. Free range eggs and steak that has had a bit of a cuddle occasionally, presumably? Rather than hitting the Internet to make vegan jokes and laugh about Heinz launching "plant based" cream of tomato soup?
We all have our lines in the sand. It's funny how fast concern for the treatment of animals goes out of the window when there's a bacon butty at stake. I reckon there'd be a fairly paradigm shift in attitudes if the prerequisite to having a lamb kebab and chips was "here's a hammer and a knife, there's Flossie out in the field back there, off you go son."
the key for me is two things. Deliberate cruelty and utility with a side helping of ecological damage
Hunting with hounds is deliberately cruel as the prey animal is chased to exhaustion until it can run no longer then torn to pieces by the hounds. A fox cannot be eaten and the pest control argument does not stand up either as the hunts feed foxes to ensure a supply of prey and there are easier and less cruel ways to kill foxes
Deer hunting with hounds is deliberately cruel as well - and going for stags is not what needs to be done if you are culling for utility. Culled deer can be eaten but not the stags hunted by the staghounds I do not think
Deer stalking is not deliberately cruel and culling is needed on highland estates and the deer can be eaten. There is no obvious criminality with deer stalking but it does tend to lead to overpopulation which causes ecological damage because a shooting estate is valued at lea\st in part by the number of deer on the land and without culling the deer numbers grow and grow until the strip the hillsides of vegetation
Driven grouse moors are again not deliberately cruel and the grouse can be eaten - however its also associated with huge ecological damage and huge criminality
I reckon there’d be a fairly paradigm shift in attitudes if the prerequisite to having a lamb kebab and chips was “here’s a hammer and a knife, there’s Flossie out in the field back there, off you go son.”
I have done this with a cow - helped turn it from a beast walking about into hamburger. I fully understand meat is animals but I think you would be right - to most folk meat comes shrink wrapped from a supermarket shelf and any assi9ciation with animals is very distant
I know exactly where my hard line is, and it's around the 'killing without thought for the animal's suffering' bit also encompasses 'killing for no good reason/or enjoyment'
I don't have as much of an issue with the guy I know who regularly goes on pheasant shoots and sticks to his freezer. I find it unsettling that he derives enjoyment from, but it doesn't make vitriol spew forth from my keyboard. Yes I've had to euthanise my own animals. And I would pluck and eat them, but as I only do this when they are sick, I don't eat the meat.
I'm fully aware of the life what's on my plate has had, and my family are too. My approach is that it's my responsibility to consider that and be at peace with it if I want to eat it.
We all have our lines in the sand. It’s funny how fast concern for the treatment of animals goes out of the window when there’s a bacon butty at stake. I reckon there’d be a fairly paradigm shift in attitudes if the prerequisite to having a lamb kebab and chips was “here’s a hammer and a knife, there’s Flossie out in the field back there, off you go son.”
I have shot, prepared and eaten animals, not something I enjoy to be honest, and the actual shooting is for me the worst bit, but I can never understand this argument. We don't expect anyone watching telly to be able to make their own, leave it to people who know what they are doing.
Oh I think there is a good moral argument for " never kill what you are not prepared to eat, never eat what you are not prepared to kill"
I seem to remember that visits to abattoirs by children means many of them go vegetarian?
too many folk are divorced from the fact that meat = dead animals
More likely a hedge fund manager.
still makes it the unspeakable in full pursuit of the uneatable.
I have done this with a cow – helped turn it from a beast walking about into hamburger. I fully understand meat is animals but I think you would be right – to most folk meat comes shrink wrapped from a supermarket shelf and any assi9ciation with animals is very distant
Bang on.
I know exactly where my hard line is
...
‘killing for... enjoyment’
Apologies for the edit for clarity. But you've just described a steak. As a society we don't eat meat for survival. We do it because we enjoy it.
I don't take issue with that; but don't dress it up as something it isn't. They like charging round on horseback, you like a cheeky kebab on the way home from the pub. I doubt the mystery meat had much in the way of a cuddle before it was bled out.
Sand, lines, etc.
Never kill what you are not prepared to eat- certainly, never eat what you are not prepared to kill not so sure, I want someone to do it as well as possible and hope that an expert will make a far better job than me.
The vast bulk of the meat I eat is wild venison shot on the hill, I could do it but the guy that does is an expert and far more certain to do a good clean job. The farmed meat comes from a local farm and I am sure it has been as well treated as possible.
I don't mean every bit of meat you eat but I remain convinced that unless you are prepared to do it at least once then you should not eat meat
cougar - how do you feel about "free range" meat? Grouse for example
Veteran sab here. I can confirm that fox hunt participants and supporters are every bit as deranged and violent towards humans as they are foxes (and other wildlife). In all my life I've never encountered a bunch of entitled, psychopathic, odious f***wits as they are. I'm glad I have no contact with them these days, because seeing the underbelly of humanity on a weekly basis messes with your mind.
Take a look at most hunt vids and the posh lot mainly just like riding their horses while the people digging out the fox holes and generally being vile are much further down the social chain
This is brilliant, completely brilliant, either you are a genius or a genuine moron, and the genius is I cannot decide which.
Apologies for the edit for clarity. But you’ve just described a steak. As a society we don’t eat meat for survival. We do it because we enjoy it.
Ok, maybe I should have been clearer. Killing purely for the enjoyment of the kill.
Never kill what you are not prepared to eat- certainly, never eat what you are not prepared to kill not so sure, I want someone to do it as well as possible and hope that an expert will make a far better job than me.
A good point, well made.
cougar – how do you feel about “free range” meat? Grouse for example
I don't know as I understand the question? If you are going to eat meat then I'd feel happier if it'd been, well, happier. Is that what you mean?
Ok, maybe I should have been clearer. Killing purely for the enjoyment of the kill.
Both are killing for enjoyment, just different forms of enjoyment. The net outcome is the same.
yes. thats the point. Free range meat has a decent life then is lunch.
Or deer that needs to be culled - better to let it rot or eat it?
I think we're at angry dolphins. I agree with you.
I don't care if people eat meat. It's just not for me, as I said. Rather, I'm trying to encourage people to consider that perhaps it's not exactly black and white unless you're either a PETA-card carrying vegan or you simply don't give a shit about animals; everything else falls in between.
To object to fox hunting is laudable; but if you're then jumping onto every veggie food-related thread to go "yes but bacon" and hoovering up cheap battery-farmed eggs at ASDA then it's arguably hypocritical.
Dolphins? Are they good eating? 🙂
