[Closed] Illegal Drugs

Brooess: they're the same drug.
One is sold on the street; one is expensive, pure, controlled for quality and available on prescription, but it's the sake stuff.

God knows why that poor devil in Oklahoma wasn't put down with a heroin overdoes, he could have died peacefully with a smile on his face. Septics, eh 🙁

'one time and you're hooked'

Propaganda or the reality of heroin? A lady who put us up for a week (a friend's sister) described exactly that over dinner one evening. A "flash" that once experienced dictated pretty much everything she did for years. She died of HIV a few years back.

I know two lads who died from heroin use, they were the same age as me and it was quite shocking. Neither saw their 20th birthday.

Thats the main point of Heroin overdoses isn't it?

IIRC the two main causes are
1. Not knowing the purity therefore not being able to control the dose
2. Doing your usual dose is an unfamiliar place.

been ages since i had to do drugs education though

Mrs Daz had it when she was giving birth. 5mg of diamorphine delivered via muscular injection to the buttock. She said it was brilliant even though she was having contractions every 3 minutes. My 9 year old daughter was given it too in the form of a nasal spray when she injured her neck in a trampoline incident. She couldn't stop giggling afterwards. It's not the drug that is harmful, but the way it is administered, what it is mixed with, and the ability of the user to know how much to take without overdosing. It seems Peaches Geldof might have failed on the last point.

I bow to your view of life, seriously you've seemed to have managed the whole experiance rather well..

Self-selecting population. Dead junkies don't by expensive MTBs and join forums...

I know a number of people who smoked it a few times (myself included) when we were young and foolish.

One of the times I tried it, I woke up the next day and the first thought that popped into my head was 'I could do that again'

Normally the next day when you wake up, the last thing you want is more of whatever poison you were taking taking the night before. I realised I was playing with fire and didn't do it again.

Out of the people I knew who dabbled, about half ended up junkies.

Of these, one died of an overdose in the bath in his early 20's, another walked in front of a train and the third got herself cleaned up and lives in London working as a marketing manager.

Like any drug, some people are more susceptible to becoming addicted than others.

Once you take it you then choose to do it again, or not and it's that point where it becomes some sort of addiction, no?
And wheres the line, once, twice, thrice? where along that line does the term addiction become reality?

Guess I'm an alcoholic then. Which in health terms is supposedly worse than being a heroin addict.

Anyone who takea illegal drugs shouldnt complain if their bikes or valuables nicked in a burgulary. Afteral cocaine etc users directly support crime.

Harsh but true.

Ebay is a bigger driver for bike crime than drugs.

Ebay is a bigger driver for bike crime than drugs.

Which obviously means it should be banned.

People use ebay to break in?!

Interesting.

That would just drive it underground, it would become even worse, mixing stolen bike parts with chipped Wedgwood porcelain, nobody wants to see that.

People use ebay to break in?

Only after the cocaine they tried to smash a window with has been washed away in the rain.

I love these drugs threads, they separate the holier than thou middle Englanders from the rest of us with corrupt morals.

love these drugs threads, they separate the holier than thou middle Englanders from the rest of us with corrupt morals

🙂

I'm very thankful I've never tried H. Was very curious about lots of things as a teenager and being around 'smackheads' was a fairly normal experience for me. At 14 year old we'd sit in with the local friendly drug dealer on a Friday night and smoke weed while he and his girlfriend shot up! I knew a lot of people including some good friends who got messed up by it eventually. Sadly some are no longer around to enjoy it. I do have some sympathy, because I can see how easy it is for curiosity to get the better of you. That and many of the people I knew who did it were good guys. I've met some utter ****s on it too mind. Even been robbed by so called 'friends'. It's a messed up drug.

Anyone who takea illegal drugs shouldnt complain if their bikes or valuables nicked in a burgulary. Afteral cocaine etc users directly support crime.

Harsh but true.

You do know that we are not allowed to stereotype on here don't you!

Not all cocaine users steal bikes and not all bike thieves take drugs.

I get your point to some extent but there is a huge proportion of people in this country who use drugs without addiction and pay for them out of hard earnt cash (rightly or wrongly!).

hora - Member
Anyone who takea illegal drugs shouldnt complain if their bikes or valuables nicked in a burgulary. Afteral cocaine etc users directly support crime.

Harsh but true.

Blimey! Never had anything stronger than booze and never been very good at that.
I don't have faith that I won't be sold something made from some toxic material or that I would'nt have a bad reaction to it.

Like quite a lot of folk on here I did pretty much every drug bar heoin for around 10 years between 91 and 2001. I was taking a lot of speed and Acid as they were cheap in the early 90's and It did mess with my head . I haven't touched anything for over 10 years and tbh doubt I ever will again. It seems more kids die from legal highs these days than from taking 'Ecky's' etc.
It took me a few years to realise that when I listened to other peoples stories always starting with "Me and (insert name) were out our nuts 3 snowballs when (insert scenario)" were actually the most boring conversations I've ever heard. I lost two childhood mates to Heroin and had the previous year been at Raves with them and It was scary to see how thir lives spiralled out of control very quickly on Skag.
Still having said that I'd to teleport back to a sweaty rave in 92 just for one night as It was great fun.

Hora - if people could buy ethically sourced, fair trade chop, maybe with a picture of a happy, smiling columbium farmer, cultivating his crop, surrounded by his family, on the packaging, they would! But they can't!

The drug isn't the problem. Nor are it's users. It's the ridiculous and destructive illegality of it that is. Which will continue to cause global chaos and misery, until someone's prepared to state the bleeding obvious, and point out that continued prohibition and the 'war on drugs' looks more ridiculous by the day! And a completely different approach is what's needed

But as usual; thanks for your well-informed, thoughtful, reasoned and lucid contribution to the debate.

'Caned Creek', environs formerly known as STW 8)

^^ this... ( well Binners this )

And thankfully This thread hasn't (yet 😆 ) deteriorated into a spat.

Nice.. 😀

Binners, on one hand you say you've seen the results of Heroin use yet on the other that if drugs were de criminalised it would eradicate the problems. Surely if you, which I don't doubt for a minute, have witnessed what I have seen & experienced with my sister, will agree drugs are the problem. Heroin & cocaine are incredibly addictive & contrary to this false perception that in pure form are harmless is quite the opposite. Cocaine is hugely damaging to your heart & constant use will eventually lead to heart failure Heroin has an incredible short life cycle & huge tolerances are quickly established which it turn leads to a massive overuse, again leading to death. I have posted this before when I lived up north the lad below me was prescribed pure heroin as it was deemed to be the best way to treat him, he was dead within 4 months. He did nothing but take heroin in increasing larger & larger doses until his body gave up. In effect the state became his dealer & ultimately his killer.
The answer to drugs isn't the end to prohibition ( though I agree the war on drugs isn't working) it's education, and over the last 20yrs this is actually happening hard drug use is falling we have a generation of kids now growing up getting the message & knowing first hand the dangers, they are looked after by aunts uncles & grandparents coz the real parents are dead or in jail.
When the argument for legalisation comes along I always say this "do you wanna sit down on Saturday night with either of your kids & watch TV whilst they smoke rocks or inject H" i don't.

Very open responces here, open and honest

I bow to your view of life, seriously you've seemed to have managed the whole experience rather well.. However, to say you wouldn't "do it" again, really? Really wouldn't you if offered?

I seriously don't think I would.
I had my fun, when it didn't really matter, and now at 41, with two little kids the last thing I want to be doing is getting loaded and trashing my life.
I have an addictive personality, and have learned to keep away from things that won't do me any good.
I have friends of similar age who still use drugs, including one who is a deputy head teacher, it is their choice, and they are certainly bright enough to make informed choices.

I think the stereotypical 'skaghead' drug user, who steals from old ladies to pay for his next fix, is actually a lot less common than the person who wears a suit to work, and uses drugs as a release in their down time.
You usually find that the typical 'skaghead' has a tragic back story that lead them down a path they didn't particularly choose to go down.

"do you wanna sit down on Saturday night with either of your kids & watch TV whilst they smoke rocks or inject H" which has been bought from the illegal drug trade with no quality control and funds criminals or stuff bought legally with controls

FTFY

Its a loaded question you ask. no one wants that but the question is which approach do you think does the least harm?
I dont want my kids to end up as prostitutes but legalising it would give them more protection than it being illegal.

I dont think anyone is actually saying all drug use is brilliant but which approach does least harm. Its education and it is removing the supply from criminals IMHO.

Hora I hate to think what your thoughts would be if you had fried that fine lucid mind with drug use.

Sorry Junkyard but maybe I didn't get my point across but anyway yeah education has to be the best way forward. But I also struggle with this QC issue around illegal drugs, that has never been the problem with drugs. The lifestyle does the damage & the drugs themselves. Nobody ever caught Hep C HIV Liver failure OD'd cardiac arrest etc coz of impurities. Drugs are a commodity shit ones don't sell, the purer and better they are the more people will want to use them.
Within street drug manufacture there is also a given purity with drugs that is kinda code to abide to otherwise people would OD everywhere - I think with heroin it's about 20-40 (don't quote me) but you get my drift.

No thank you.

Dihydrocodeine from the NHS is my only opiod experience, and absolutely fantastic it was too, I can see why opiates are so addictive. Like a good spliff without the resulting lethargy and uselessness. A spliff and dihydrocodeine is a fantastic combo, highly recommended.

I smoked so much weed in my early 20's I stayed away from anything else, even pills, I just knew I'd be all over them and watching friends necking even more pills at 4am after a nights clubbing and the state they would end up in kinda put me off too.

Would be interested in trying almost anything and even ayahuasca and the like if I was facing a terminal illness or something, but knowing someone who never returned to their previous mental state after mushrooms has put me off that kinda thing.

btw if you search for 'bad salvia trip' on youtube, it makes you not want to dabble in such things and is quite amusing...

carbonfiend, the point of legalisation isn't to provide those who decide to take up heroin with clean drugs. It's to provide those already addicted (or who end up addicted) with some form of stability and management to allow them to control their addiction and permit proper treatment.

People OD and catch all those diseases because it's just incredibly uncontrolled. The government waits until you're absolutely screwed before there is help available, ie an ambulance at the bottom of a cliff. Then they stick you on an even more harmful (but legal) drug and let you back into the world.

I 100% agree that education is the ONLY way to try to reduce the number of addicts. But for those who will always slip through the net, proper care and treatment is needed, not criminalisation.

I think studies have shown that legalising something doesn't lead to a dramatic increase in use. e.g. just because heroin is legalised tomorrow, doesn't mean all those people who said no to it yesterday will suddenly have a change of heart. That depends on continued and proper eduction though.

Hora needs a zoot

The lifestyle does the damage & the drugs themselves. Nobody ever caught Hep C HIV Liver failure OD'd cardiac arrest etc coz of impurities.

Not that happened because there is nowhere safe to use the drugs and in the past it was hard to get clean needles. Imagine we sold it in single use syringes.

Drugs are a commodity shit ones don't sell, the purer and better they are the more people will want to use them.

No one would wish it on anyone but no matter what we think some folk are going to use drugs. Surely history has taught us this
We may wish to nudge folk into safer drugs and away from the really bad shit but whilst it is illegal we can do basically nothing.
Neither option is truly good and both approaches will mean wasted lives and suffering families. The fewer the better IMHO and that is achieved via some form of legality/control

Sorry for your loss I only lost friends and that was tough enough - I am just North of you on the A6 as well

the point of legalisation isn't to provide those who decide to take up heroin with clean drugs.

I actually wouldn't have a problem with heroin being on sale for recreational use, as long as there were some strict controls and licensing in place, it being available via a safe delivery mechanism (i.e. not injecting) such as the nasal spray my daughter had, and a system of education for potential users. Maybe even the users should be licensed? Perhaps having to pass a test to demonstrate they can use it safely and are aware of the dangers of overdose (which shouldn't be possible if they get the delivery mechanism right) and addiction.

In fact what I've just described above, apart from licensing users, is exactly the situation with nicotine. So why not heroin too?

Why not heroin -'coz u will die very quickly. Tolerance to Heroin develops incredibly quickly there is no common safe usage of it, I know it's sounds like an overreaction but that is the case. You can't prescribe a single dose of heroin to an addict & ask him or her to use it once a day. The drug only lasts for about 4-6 hours then to will develop withdrawal symptoms.
The point is you can do things and we are, as we have both mentioned its education.
Not up north anymore down here in LDN got out over 20yrs ago.

TBH and this is a whole different discussion I think drug addiction involves way more complex issues involving nurture poverty environment etc and this is where I think the other side of the answer to the problem is.

Lastly from me I think there is real argument for seriously chasing the money as highlighted in The Wire tv series

Tolerance to Heroin develops incredibly quickly there is no common safe usage of it,

Not strictly true is it a pretty clean drug and with safe and known quantities it can easily be used safely but your right tolerance is a huge problem

Like most opioids, unadulterated heroin does not cause many long-term complications other than dependence and constipation

Being illegal, of unknown quality and purity and having to be taken in private exacerbates any risk present.
If it had to be done under medical supervision, for example, it would be far safer.

There is always the danger that these threads only ever discuss the small percentage of users who actually have a problem with drugs. And it is a small percentage. The vast majority take it or leave.

I'd much rather have a system where the state controls the supply of drugs and the profits are then put back into health for those that can't handle them, instead of the going to criminal groups. Lets face it, time has proved that prohibition has no effect on the availability of drugs. It's a multi billion pound industry, that could help alot of people. Less harmful drugs could be available widely, but drugs like herion could be available via heroin clinics where users have to be registered etc and help is available at point of purchase. there's many ways you could do it, and it'd be a far better system than the shambles that currently exits.

First time I had heroin I sprinted 3 miles home after I'd roused from my initial slumber. Strange...

And it is a small percentage

California's Grape crop (for the wine industry) is estimated to be worth $4b to their economy, the almond crop is a very close 2nd at $3.8b.

However the (somewhat illegal) marijuana crop is reliably estimated to be worth at least $10b with further estimates putting it as high as $14b over the past few years so the sooner our government gets it's finger out of it's arse the sooner we could set up small scale personal grows and help get this country out of debt, i'd quite happily pay 50%+ tax on anything i produce and i'd still make a very decent living out of an average size room.

Our entire drug policy and current legal enforcement is a farce that needs to end soon.

Junkyard - lazarus
And it is a small percentage

True as it is with gambling or alcohol but some drugs are more moreish than others

Have had MDMA (amongst others) a few times and it's awesome either for a night out or a night in. Better than alcohol. I don't think I'd want to try heroin though unless I knew for sure it would really just be the once, I think I have quite an addictive personality so don't want to risk it tbh! None of my mates are into that kinda thing though so it would probably be hard to come by at any rate.

Everyone I've known who's had a drug problem (alcohol, acid, dope, coke) has, as far as I can see, been trying to deal with personal issues and the drug has been a way of trying to live life with some kind of bearable balance... so if we want to reduce usage, where's the counselling, the social support etc to help people deal with the underlying issues?

I imagine it (heroin) is very moreish. With an addictive personality I will steer clear, until Im given days to live in which case it will be near the top of the list along with many other things...

Smoked it a couple of times, a long time ago- first time, I had no clue, was just handed it. Bit daft, I'd probably have said no if I'd known. Honestly, it is brilliant. But weighed up the potential downsides and thought, nah, bollocks to that. I'm an addictive person- not chemically addictive, but experience addictive and it was too good to play with, I think everything else would have taken a back seat. I mean, if mountain biking can steal your wallet and your weekends, what's heroin going to leave you? (on the plus side, I doubt junkie northwind would be wasting a thursday evening on herointrackworld)

FWIW the feller who gave it to me had been using for years, you would never know. I am not that sort of person. He was far better with horse than booze, honestly if I could have picked one to get him off, it'd have been the beer.

Formed a very close relationship with a self-administering morphine drip in hospital, that was ace. Starts out "Aah this hurts, pain relief, BEEP", soon it's "Man I'm bored... BEEP." If I had one of those in the house, I reckon I could go to bed and just never get out again.