[Closed] Ill during your hols? No problem...get back from your employer!

in NHS-land we have been able to do this (via something european iirc) for a few years now. ...on production of a doctor's note though, you can't just phone in. Also I suspect HR would not be above looking at facebook for yourn holiday photos if someone suggested they might find something.... 😕

This is supposed to be news? I thought it had always been the case. I've certainly taken time back that way in the past.

A colleague of mine broke his collar bone on the first day of an Alps biking holiday and claimed the holiday back. It was a bad break too so he was off work for 10 weeks on top of that.

Yup, public sector workers pretty much get this already. 🙄

That along with a certain number of no questions asked sick days per year that everyone just adds on to their holiday entitlement. 😯

Mother, partner, best friend wife, various inlaws all public sector workers.

I can see it now 'Day two of my three weeks in Thailand and I've caught a dose, so you'll be owing me three weeks more when I get back.'

...TuckerUK public sector whinge...

if I was on holiday (and being paid anyway) and was sick, I'd rather stay off as hols and then I don't tarnish my employment record with lots of sick days. I work for private sector so I have to consider things like this....

Public sector here and I wasn't aware of this. Can't say I'm aware that any of my colleagues have claimed days back either. If I'm sick on leave I'll look into it - not had a sick day yet though 🙂

pretty sure this has been the case for a long time now.
It's just that in general, people in the real, reasonable world don't take advantage of it.

I thought it had always been the case.

me too. I'm pretty sure is the case with my employer back when I had a proper job- about 12 years ago. Never knew anyone with sufficient brass jaw to take it up though. I would never have been able to use up my hols if I did, as soon as the stress/adrenaline from work was removed I just seemed to get a lurgy, spent most of my hols with some sort of malaise, injury or ailment

I'm sure this happened to me. I broke my ankle on holiday. I was happy to leave it as holiday (it was on the last day - on the way to the airport as it happens) because you only got full pay for 6 weeks sick in a rolling 12 month period and I was going to use it all up, but they put me down as sick from the day of the accident.

Or that's what I think happened - it was a while ago now.

Public sector here and it always applies. However, so do the same rules in that you must phone in on the first day and each subsequent day up to 5 days. On the 8th day of sickness you also need to provide a doctors note.

Not had to enforce the last one myself yet but I did refuse a request once as a member of staff came back into work after the hol and then said they had been ill.

nearly every public sector (mainly nurses granted) worker i know falls pretty ill at the start of their holidays, its a stressful and demanding job both mentally and physically... taking a break means the body goes "oh, resting are we?! not on my watch, time to give you every bug you've been fighting off for the past X months"

never know any of these workers to claim their holiday back

i always end up being pretty ill on my time off but dont ever claim it back, for years now i've resigned myself to knowing i'll be ill so dont bother booking anything fun

druidh - Member
This is supposed to be news?

Well the BBC think so...so apparently it's not previously been an automatic right...

Definitely not public sector, but we can do that.

I'm self employed. What's a holiday?

i always end up being pretty ill on my time off but dont ever claim it back, for years now i've resigned myself to knowing i'll be ill so dont bother booking anything fun

Thats why I'm freelance now - years on end without a holiday. Never felt so healthy

Can I claim if I'm ill at the weekend as well?

geordiemick00 - Member

if I was on holiday (and being paid anyway) and was sick, I'd rather stay off as hols and then I don't tarnish my employment record with lots of sick days. I work for private sector so I have to consider things like this....

meanwhile in NHSland, we aren't allowed to apply for other nhs jobs or transfer volontarily, or get secondments to other posts if we have too high a sick record. I have been asked numerous times by my still-ill colleagues to log them 'fit to return to work' just before their holidays or a couple of rostered days off for exactly the same reasons as you would geordiemick00.

The drawback ironically is that the healthy hard workers get stuck with sicky underperforming colleagues because the can't get a job unless they leave the NHS.

[edit] oh and Phil's observations about the 'elastic pinging back' and getting ill about 24 hours into your week off is all too common where I work too. Certinaly 2/3 of my colds and man-flus happen when I am on annual leave. What are the chances of that eh? Sometimes ill enough that I would have rung in sick to work, but never ill enough to bother a GP for a sick note. Mind you I expect that phenomenom is similar for all sorts of fast-paced or stressful jobs.

There is no statutory obligation to pay you for being sick though (if you are sick for 4 consecutive days then most people will qualify for SSP at around £85 per week). So in fact some private sector employers will give you the choice when you call in sick - take it as a day's holiday, or take it as a day on the sick and don't get paid!

I'd booked a trip to Spain, but I was taken ill (pneumonia) a few weeks before a booked holiday and had a sick note covering the period I was supposed to be away. I was actively encouraged by my bosses to still go on the holiday and sit on the beach for the week, and they didn't take the holidays from my allowance.

This was about 5-6 years ago, so I'd just assumed that it was the norm.

claim back days from your employer if you are sick when on leave

Can someone in-the-know explain the rationale behind why my employer should take a hit for me being ill in my own time?

Sometimes ill enough that I would have rung in sick to work, but never ill enough to bother a GP for a sick note. Mind you I expect that phenomenom is similar for all sorts of fast-paced or stressful jobs.

agreed!

joao3v16 - Member

Can someone in-the-know explain the rationale behind why my employer should take a hit for me being ill in my own time?

Phil said it just up there^^

nearly every public sector (mainly nurses granted) worker i know falls pretty ill at the start of their holidays, its a stressful and demanding job both mentally and physically... taking a break means the body goes "oh, resting are we?! not on my watch, time to give you every bug you've been fighting off for the past X months"

I don't think this pattern is limited to public service or nursing. If you as an employer create such stressful conditions and prvide insufficient support for your employees that this 'rebound holiday sickness' happens, then perhaps you should consider bearing some more responsibility for this.

with my post up there that julian has quoted, i'd just like to point out i didnt write it with the intention of explaining why employers should have to pay people for being sick in their own time.... my employer doesnt give us sick pay so its the standard SSP or using up annual leave if i'm unwell.

however, reading julian's post i'd have to agree that certain types of job (especially when spending 40+hours a week surrounded by sick people) will mean that your chances of spending your annual leave unwell and not using it as a break from work will be noticeably higher than those who can use their holidays as intended.

this type of work environment would probably reduce staff sickness and as such, costs by looking at how to support their staff a little better so they're not either at work or too unwell to work. i believe its been shown to be effective when dealing with otehr sources of stress at work: workload management, bullying in the workplace etc etc

Can someone in-the-know explain the rationale behind why my employer should take a hit for me being ill in my own time?

It doesn't mean that your employer takes a hit, it means that your employer doesn't benefit. If this weren't in place and you were sick when on holiday your employer wouldn't have to bear the cost of your sick leave whereas if you fell ill whilst working they would. It moves the situation from a employer gain/employee loss position to a employer neutral/employee neutral position.

I just thought it was bad luck if you were ill in your holiday, never imagined you should / could get it back...

This has always been the case, at every company I've worked for over the last 25 years.

That along with a certain number of no questions asked sick days per year that everyone just adds on to their holiday entitlement.

Really? Must be a different public sector I've worked in the last 23 years.

My Wife is public sector and has to get a GP sicknote the day she calls in ill. Madness. But that's the Forces for you.

That along with a certain number of no questions asked sick days per year that everyone just adds on to their holiday entitlement

I can see it now 'Day two of my three weeks in Thailand and I've caught a dose, so you'll be owing me three weeks more when I get back.

I've know situations where this has worked the other way round. A friend of mine had to have a procedure the involved having his leg broken and put back together again, he was in various tractions and structures for a year or so. When he was finally back on his feet his employers (private sector incidentally) insisted he was still due a years worth of paid holiday - he really didn't want it, time off looses its novelty after a while, able bodied or not. But they made him take 4 weeks off before he could start back again. Towards the end week four he fell off his bike and broke something shoulder/ collarboney and was back off sick again 🙂

reading julian's post i'd have to agree that certain types of job (especially when spending 40+hours a week surrounded by sick people) will mean that your chances of spending your annual leave unwell and not using it as a break from work will be noticeably higher than those who can use their holidays as intended

I'd love to know if this is true but can't really think of a likely mechanism. I'd suspect there is some confirmation bias going on here. We might be much more likely to remember being ill when we are supposed to be off having fun because instead of having a "day out" we sit on our arse and feel sorry for ourselves because we can. Where as if we felt a similar level of crap on a work day we would just go to work.

Yup, public sector workers pretty much get this already. 🙄

Well I used to work for a Large Insurance company and everyone knew they could claim back holidays if they were sick.

Nothing to do with Public vs Private sector

So I'll take your single rolleyes and raise you 🙄 🙄

dp.

Can someone in-the-know explain the rationale behind why my employer should take a hit for me being ill in my own time?

A recognition perhaps that we (should) work to live, rather than live to work.

For you it may be different 🙂 , and your reward will come in the next one, but for the majority of people there is only one life, and it's a good thing to be able to use your holidays for enjoyment. Many responsible companies require their employees to use up their holidays, or minimise the carryover/sell back of unused time.

An extension to your question might lead to musings as to why your employer should pay for your holidays, or illnesses at any time, or indeed any benefits.

So how does this work for... Teachers? 😳 🙁

I'm self employed. What's a holiday?

+1

also what are sick days?

I'm self employed. What's a holiday?

One of the rewards for running a viable, and at least moderately successful, business. 🙂

TuckerUK - Member

Yup, public sector workers pretty much get this already.

Funny, I got it from an evil global bank- without even asking, it didn't occur to me it was an option.

TuckerUK - Member

That along with a certain number of no questions asked sick days per year that everyone just adds on to their holiday entitlement.

Mother, partner, best friend wife, various inlaws all public sector workers

...so why don't you ask them what actually happens, rather than repeating some baseless whinge you obviously heard from a bitter man in the street?

Can someone in-the-know explain the rationale behind why my employer should take a hit for me being ill in my own time?

If I work 48 weeks a year and have 4 weeks holiday then work should accept that for every 13 weekdays of illness, only 1 is on my time.

This has been available for years in the NHS, and I know of at least one person who did it. In 25 years.

Never mind that I can name at least three people who came back to work at least two weeks before they had to by going to Occ Health and pleading to be allowed back, myself included...

I went out with a girl who worked for Lloyds Bank back in the mid nineties - she was ill while on time off once and claimed the days back when she returned to work. So it's not an entirely new thing, and not just a public-sector thing (I'm sort of assuming the usual detractors have already said something...apologies if not 🙂 )

So how does this work for... Teachers?

Teachers don't get holidays, they just have days when they're not expected to be in work and in front of a class.

jfletch, it happens! I am a childrens mental health nurse and I juggle the objective observations and subjective experiences of 'ill' families, somatoform disorders and strange unexplainable (usually emotion-driven) illness all the time. I'll eat a bowl your confirmation bias and wash it down with a hot mug of help-seeking behaviours. 😛

My Mrs has been a staff nurse for 25 yrs & she's claimed holidays back once when she had a heart problem. I've been with the prison service 10 years & haven't claimed any back.

Yet. 🙂

Oh yes, and we also pay tax before we ever see our wages, we don't have the opportunity to write this and that off against tax...

Yup indeed - nor can you be on holiday when you are ill - so if you take a month of work sick and one of those weeks is scheduled holiday you qet that week back

I know this exists and have mixed feelings about it. Mainly for the 10% that use it to an advantage

But as other said - 10 years running my own businesses mean WTF is a holiday and ditto sick days !

I knew it was there in my previous job (just about Public Sector) in my head it was there for the big stuff like broken bones/accident/hospitalisation if I got the sniffles then that was my bad luck.

Did it 20 odd years ago, private sector.

Got to agree, didn't realise it was news either.

What about bank holidays if your off sick can you claim them back

crikey - Member
Oh yes, and we also pay tax before we ever see our wages, we don't have the opportunity to write this and that off against tax...

So does any PAYE employee, no?

crikey - Member
Oh yes, and we also pay tax before we ever see our wages, we don't have the opportunity to write this and that off against tax...

Lol you obviously missed business for dummies and went to irrational jealousy and envy for beginners.